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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 4, 2017 21:05:04 GMT -5
Some people need a reality check. New arena will help with recruiting a bit, but after the new luster wears off, attendance will be right where it is now. Needed more than an arena is a place/places where alumni can meet up with for drinks and dinner before the game. That is something the campus lacks and based on the location, is never going to happen, unfortunately. Currently, if I meet up with friends for a game we are in like Manayunk and then drive to campus... that is far from a "game day experience" and seats behind the basket is not going to fix that. Exactly! Will a new arena lead to sellout crowds on a Wednesday night in February when we play Fordham? I think it is quixotic. (I love that word--quixotic.) And please don't theorize that it will if we Build It They Will Come, even if we have a Top 25 team. I graduated in 1990 and had season tickets all four years when we played in Center City. I recall plenty of MAAC games where we drew similar attendance as we do today, even though we had the best teams in our history outside of the Gola era. Sure, people showed up for Big 5 games, a memorable game against #5 FSU in '88-'89 and LMU in '89-'90, but when Iona, Manhattan and the like came to town, only the diehards were there. I'm with Madame President on this one: start selling out TGA and then it's a conversation worth having. Come to Fairfax, VA, tonight and pelt me with eggs, if you wish, but please don't miss and take out my beautiful wife. Brother Mike, is that you? |
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Post by delcodelco on Feb 4, 2017 21:15:19 GMT -5
Having been in like 50-60 different arenas.. There is a blueprint I love that exists at a couple comparable places.
Lipscombs Allen arena is 5000 capacity, really clean and streamlined look, fantastic presentation.
I also like Ocean First Center at Monmouth, a good spectator centered place that presents well to recruits, holds like 4000.
I think both of those are philosophically a good place to start.
There's going to be a new arena, there is financial incentive, and the school acknowledges the need for additional indoor facilities for other sports and student activities.
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Post by charmcityexplorer on Feb 4, 2017 21:27:33 GMT -5
]Brother Mike, is that you?[/quote][
Yes. Nice job, Sherlock.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 5, 2017 4:42:59 GMT -5
]Brother Mike, is that you? [ Yes. Nice job, Sherlock.[/quote] No, the reason I ask is because it's not about filling Gola to deserve an updated arena. It's about being able to bring in recruits consistently. It's about being able to draw big time opponents. I think FSU was the last big time non league opponent, save our Big 5 friends on the Main Line. An enormous investment in this program will be the only thing to catapult our basketball team to a regular A10 Championship contender. The program cannot fund itself dollar for dollar... it has worked ONCE in 25 years. Like Mr. D said, it would be comparable to a restaurant putting off upgrades until they do 3 turns a night. I listed like 5 recruits we've lost earlier in the thread. I could list 15 more if you'd like. Get half of those and we'd would have been announced on Selection Sunday multiple times. Yes, it's an investment. Yes, it's going to be tough. However, there is already some money there... start the damn funding drive. 5 years, 8 years, 10 years... just get it done. At some point, the A10 will come calling with seating requirements... I don't want to be on the outside looking in when the next shuffle happens. |
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Post by theneumann64 on Feb 5, 2017 7:32:04 GMT -5
Does the fact that a really nice, or even just legitimate, arena that's only 1/3 filled still looks about a million times better than a nearly sold out Gola really not factor into the discussion?
We don't need to have the ability to fill up every single seat for everyfans in order for the arena to still be needed. Most of these schools, outside of Dayton and VCU, don't fill their buildings up every night.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 5, 2017 8:09:24 GMT -5
]Brother Mike, is that you? [ Yes. Nice job, Sherlock. No, the reason I ask is because it's not about filling Gola to deserve an updated arena. It's about being able to bring in recruits consistently. It's about being able to draw big time opponents. I think FSU was the last big time non league opponent, save our Big 5 friends on the Main Line. An enormous investment in this program will be the only thing to catapult our basketball team to a regular A10 Championship contender. The program cannot fund itself dollar for dollar... it has worked ONCE in 25 years. Like Mr. D said, it would be comparable to a restaurant putting off upgrades until they do 3 turns a night. I listed like 5 recruits we've lost earlier in the thread. I could list 15 more if you'd like. Get half of those and we'd would have been announced on Selection Sunday multiple times. Yes, it's an investment. Yes, it's going to be tough. However, there is already some money there... start the damn funding drive. 5 years, 8 years, 10 years... just get it done. At some point, the A10 will come calling with seating requirements... I don't want to be on the outside looking in when the next shuffle happens.[/quote] Let's set the record straight department. 1. Louth is NOT an architect. 2. Lavoy Allen picked Temple because of his girl friend. 3. Morris twins recruiting was a soap opera. Dynamic of twins took place. Marcus wanted La Salle. Markieff wanted to leave Philly. I was told by someone that Marcus was NOT sure about going to Memphis (that's who they picked at the press conference)even up to the point when he put the cap on his head. This person told me to look at Marcus on the video and see his reaction. |
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Post by charmcityexplorer on Feb 5, 2017 10:12:50 GMT -5
Does the fact that a really nice, or even just legitimate, arena that's only 1/3 filled still looks about a million times better than a nearly sold out Gola really not factor into the discussion? We don't need to have the ability to fill up every single seat for everyfans in order for the arena to still be needed. Most of these schools, outside of Dayton and VCU, don't fill their buildings up every night. I'll respond to you and the Lunatic here. First, I could have been accused of being "Colleen"--btw where has she been lately? Second, for 15 basketball recruits lost, how many hundreds of academic recruits have we lost over the years who visited an outdated SOB at College Hall, or are visiting an unattractive Olney Hall that is reminiscent of Eastern Bloc architecture, not to mention some dorms--North Dorms (or whatever they're called nowadays), E&F, and even Katherine, which was "new" in 1986? So, that is my concern and, I hope, the concern of most alumni who want La Salle to not only remain a top-notch academic institution, but to also remain in existence. ] I also agree that men's basketball is a factor in that happening, but we have to first get back to a position where we are attracting the best academic talent (with the ability to pay) before TGA 2.0 is a viable discussion. And I think we're on the right path. The new dorm at E&F through a P-3, tuition reset, etc., I hope will get us there. Look, if someone steps up to the plate tomorrow with a seven-figure donation to build a new arena, then do it. Short of that, however, my focus would be on the critical needs stated at the outset of this post, as I don't think that La Salle has the resources (or, quite frankly, the alumni support) to tackle all of these projects contemporaneously. I've said it before, and I'll say it one last time, and then I promise to shut up on this topic: if there is no La Salle University, there is no La Salle men's basketball program. |
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Feb 5, 2017 10:26:00 GMT -5
Does the fact that a really nice, or even just legitimate, arena that's only 1/3 filled still looks about a million times better than a nearly sold out Gola really not factor into the discussion? We don't need to have the ability to fill up every single seat for everyfans in order for the arena to still be needed. Most of these schools, outside of Dayton and VCU, don't fill their buildings up every night. I'll respond to you and the Lunatic here. First, I could have been accused of being "Colleen"--btw where has she been lately? Second, for 15 basketball recruits lost, how many hundreds of academic recruits have we lost over the years who visited an outdated SOB at College Hall, or are visiting an unattractive Olney Hall that is reminiscent of Eastern Bloc architecture, not to mention some dorms--North Dorms (or whatever they're called nowadays), E&F, and even Katherine, which was "new" in 1986? So, that is my concern and, I hope, the concern of most alumni who want La Salle to not only remain a top-notch academic institution, but to also remain in existence. ] Regarding the bold portion of your answer, how many former school administration people can be blamed there? Too many and I'm not asking for names to be named, but how many years was it between new building on campus. Comm Center opening to Business building opening was like a 25-year gap? I think the two newest dorms are Neumann (early 90s I think) and TreeTops or whatever that's called, and that was like 10 years ago now. Big gaps there for both. I know the purchase of Germantown happened in the early 2000s too, and lots of renovation work went on there, but my point was new buildings have been few and far between for many years on campus and now Madame President is behind the 8-ball, shall we say, in getting some new stuff built so that school can continue to compete. A new arena it just part of all that. |
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 5, 2017 10:50:06 GMT -5
There will be a new dorm soon. That's a bigger draw than any physical plant item for the non-athlete.
The over-arching theme with the new arena conversation is that the school is open about using the men's basketball program as a marketing tool for the university. The question here then is, if that's the vehicle you want to hitch your wagon to, shouldn't it be as nice as possible?
Also, there's a 7 figure donation to a new arena already in place made by a former poster here who had more "cred" than anyone, God rest his soul. So it's not a question of if, rather when this happens.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 5, 2017 11:30:55 GMT -5
Practical questions and looking for legit opinions.
1. What type of arena are we looking for? What will be the use? Basketball only or serving other athletic needs?
2. Where will it be built if a stand alone? Will it be a remodeling of Haymen and TGA?
3. From the poll, looks like the consensus is between 4000 and 6000. Split the difference and call it 5000. How much would be needed to complete project?
4. How will it be funded?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 12:10:26 GMT -5
At some point, the A10 will come calling with seating requirements... I don't want to be on the outside looking in when the next shuffle happens. This is my dream. The Atlantic 10 in its current form brings little to the table. It is a loose collection of discards and has beens brought together out of desperation and indifference - programs that have allowed themselves to be defined by other people. Letting a bunch of glorified bureaucrats in Newport News make demands and drive the bus in no way interests me, and I would walk out the door with double birds in full flight. Getting out without paying severance is as close as La Salle basketball is going to get to erotic fiction with Giannini at the helm. ...for 15 basketball recruits lost, how many hundreds of academic recruits have we lost over the years who visited an outdated SOB at College Hall, or are visiting an unattractive Olney Hall that is reminiscent of Eastern Bloc architecture, not to mention some dorms--North Dorms (or whatever they're called nowadays), E&F, and even Katherine, which was "new" in 1986? That number is almost certainly in the thousands. La Salle's strength is its people, and the campus's built environment lets them down hard. The three newest buildings on campus - St. Basil, Holroyd and Founder's Hall - all suffer from the same problem: Who cares? St. Basil looks like every apartment complex ever, and Holroyd and Founder's look like the kind of aspirational architecture you normally find at state universities that will look outdated as hell in 10 years. Founder's also looks like it was ripped out of an office park. Just about every building built after Wister and College Hall looks built down to a price and out of indifference. Where's La Salle's iconic clock tower? Church? Or any other sort of architecture as investment and symbol? Ah, yes. |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 5, 2017 12:34:39 GMT -5
Guess the university didn't buy all of Germantown Hospital and build the footbridge? And Good Shepherd and make it a supermarket for the neighborhood? And trying to turn the regional train line off Wister into 'La Salle Station'? Guess College Hall's tower doesn't exist either? A stupid church and clocktower won't attract students. Tuition freezes do. One step at a time. |
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Post by SICguy84 on Feb 5, 2017 12:48:05 GMT -5
The three buildings reference above are all architecturally appealing and are real gems on campus (Including founders and I say that as my family business ((25 year association)) was arbitrarily excluded from the project. Head of facilities has turned over again so maybe a rekindle of business relationship in future)
Bro. Mike called the renovation of the science building the campus addition he was most proud of.
If you want gothic institutional stone buildings you picked the wrong school...we build in brick. College and wister provide that feel around the quad.
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Post by talkinbball on Feb 5, 2017 13:24:30 GMT -5
I believe the new arena will come when the campus relocates to the suburbs.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 13:45:51 GMT -5
Guess the university didn't buy all of Germantown Hospital and build the footbridge? And Good Shepherd and make it a supermarket for the neighborhood? And trying to turn the regional train line off Wister into 'La Salle Station'? Guess College Hall's tower doesn't exist either? A stupid church and clocktower won't attract students. Tuition freezes do. One step at a time. Nothing you mentioned is postcard worthy. College Hall's tower arguably fits that bill, but they don't market it as such so I left it out. La Salle Station could have been a good example, except it's still called Wister Station. The church and the clock tower start conversations, and some of those conversations end in deposits for the fall. They're concrete symbols to attach the abstract notion of a university to. The tuition reset also started those conversations, but that won't last forever and we'll never know how much of that is down to a lower price and how much was down to media coverage of the lower price. Every new building is a statement of where the university is at and where it wants to go. Nothing about any of the three buildings that I mentioned say anything La Salle specific. They're sheds with benefits that happen to be sited on La Salle land. |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 5, 2017 14:19:59 GMT -5
All of that is good, but where does 'postcard worthy' building come from? I'm not saying you're wrong, but for a univerity such as La Salle, who's ass are we going to pull such a game-changing building from?
This isn't Penn - they build things simply because they have too much money. This is La Salle, who was just laying folks off, that had lower than necessary enrollment figures.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 15:27:02 GMT -5
All of that is good, but where does 'postcard worthy' building come from? I'm not saying you're wrong, but for a univerity such as La Salle, who's ass are we going to pull such a game-changing building from? This isn't Penn - they build things simply because they have too much money. This is La Salle, who was just laying folks off, that had lower than necessary enrollment figures. See, that's what annoys me. Any of those three buildings could have been that building, but the university has historically lacked a strategic vision and that's what drives 95% of my complaints. It probably couldn't have been St. Basil or any dormitory, but the business school was a perfect opportunity and it would have cost less than you think. Renovating College Hall and turning it back into the spiritual heart of the campus could do the same thing. Aside from the basement chapel, which is its own separate disgrace, I'm not actually sure what it's used for now. Connelly / the library would have been another candidate. If Treetops had more curb appeal it would nail the hell out of the postcard test. Dumb name, but it's my favorite building on campus to be in. |
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 6, 2017 13:01:07 GMT -5
Does the fact that a really nice, or even just legitimate, arena that's only 1/3 filled still looks about a million times better than a nearly sold out Gola really not factor into the discussion? We don't need to have the ability to fill up every single seat for everyfans in order for the arena to still be needed. Most of these schools, outside of Dayton and VCU, don't fill their buildings up every night. I'll respond to you and the Lunatic here. First, I could have been accused of being "Colleen"--btw where has she been lately? Second, for 15 basketball recruits lost, how many hundreds of academic recruits have we lost over the years who visited an outdated SOB at College Hall, or are visiting an unattractive Olney Hall that is reminiscent of Eastern Bloc architecture, not to mention some dorms--North Dorms (or whatever they're called nowadays), E&F, and even Katherine, which was "new" in 1986? So, that is my concern and, I hope, the concern of most alumni who want La Salle to not only remain a top-notch academic institution, but to also remain in existence. ] I also agree that men's basketball is a factor in that happening, but we have to first get back to a position where we are attracting the best academic talent (with the ability to pay) before TGA 2.0 is a viable discussion. And I think we're on the right path. The new dorm at E&F through a P-3, tuition reset, etc., I hope will get us there. Look, if someone steps up to the plate tomorrow with a seven-figure donation to build a new arena, then do it. Short of that, however, my focus would be on the critical needs stated at the outset of this post, as I don't think that La Salle has the resources (or, quite frankly, the alumni support) to tackle all of these projects contemporaneously. I've said it before, and I'll say it one last time, and then I promise to shut up on this topic: if there is no La Salle University, there is no La Salle men's basketball program. I didn't call you Colleen, because I believe she knows what she's doing. She gets it. She got rid of Tom Brennan and brought in Bill Bradshaw... that's an amazing move and upgrade. Bradshaw knows what he's doing. He ran an athletic department at a huge university that had a laughingstock football program (I used to go to the Vet as a freshman and leave to drink in the parking lot at halftime... 2 of my teammates played for Temple) and guided it to respectability, it is one of the best programs in the AAC now. If a coaching change is to be made, Bradshaw won't need to waste any money on an outside search committee, that's for sure. We have a Who's Who all over the basketball world between Raft, Legs, Dunph (if he's fired from Temple at season's end), etc. I didn't list Neubauer and Overton because I still expect them to be coaching at their respective schools after the season. Many great basketball minds have come from 20th and Olney. Now, onto your buildings point. You don't sell what you don't have. When I sold cars, I wasn't pitching gas mileage and head room while showing a sports car. For La Salle, you sell Philadelphia, small class sizes, the fact that professors know your name, the median salary 10 years after graduation, etc. Yes, North Dorms are dated. South Campus is under utilized. Basil and Treetops are 10 years old. They were built when I was there. My tenure at La Salle (along with Joe F, Neumann, St Louis, Hykos, and 1801) was when college tuition was still on the hike. It was crossing $30,000 or the low 30's at that point. Our enrollment was over 4,000 if I recall, and La Salle was still on the come. Well the bubble popped, and we are in a different world now. The investment isn't worth the return. It's part of the reason community colleges and trade schools are booming. So Colleen did what she had to do, drop tuition to where it was 10 years ago. She eliminated majors that were not serving but a small amount of students. All of what she did made sense. She gets it. It's about having the right people in place. We have that now. |
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Feb 6, 2017 13:20:20 GMT -5
As a blanket statement subject to change with details, if we let Giannini go and hire from within, I'm going to be really annoyed.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 6, 2017 13:25:20 GMT -5
As a blanket statement subject to change with details, if we let Giannini go and hire from within, I'm going to be really annoyed. Span of influence. Not much would change. |
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Post by calsufan on Feb 6, 2017 13:26:05 GMT -5
As a blanket statement subject to change with details, if we let Giannini go and hire from within, I'm going to be really annoyed. You wouldn't be the only one. |
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Post by Shout out to my Cousin Bern on Feb 6, 2017 13:46:51 GMT -5
As a blanket statement subject to change with details, if we let Giannini go and hire from within, I'm going to be really annoyed. Are you alluding to one of our assistance coaches or is this including past-explorers (legs, overton, etc.)? |
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 6, 2017 13:54:22 GMT -5
As a blanket statement subject to change with details, if we let Giannini go and hire from within, I'm going to be really annoyed. Are you alluding to one of our assistance coaches or is this including past-explorers (legs, overton, etc.)? I think he's talking about assistant coaches... but I think only one of them would get an interview |
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Post by calsufan on Feb 6, 2017 13:56:21 GMT -5
Are you alluding to one of our assistance coaches or is this including past-explorers (legs, overton, etc.)? I think he's talking about assistant coaches... but I think only one of them would get an interview Hopefully no more than a courtesy interview. P.S. Nothing will happen this year regardless. |
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 6, 2017 14:06:36 GMT -5
I think he's talking about assistant coaches... but I think only one of them would get an interview I'm not, I'm also including Legler (I mean ... c'mon) and Overton (whose resume wouldn't get a look *yet* if he weren't a grad). |
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Post by calsufan on Feb 6, 2017 14:08:53 GMT -5
I think he's talking about assistant coaches... but I think only one of them would get an interview I'm not, I'm also including Legler (I mean ... c'mon) and Overton (whose resume wouldn't get a look *yet* if he weren't a grad). Same page. |
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 6, 2017 14:14:51 GMT -5
I think he's talking about assistant coaches... but I think only one of them would get an interview I'm not, I'm also including Legler (I mean ... c'mon) and Overton (whose resume wouldn't get a look *yet* if he weren't a grad). I'm not saying make them candidates, I'm saying put them on a search committee if we make a change. All that money that Brennan wasted 13 years ago to pay a consulting firm, we have enough smart minds around the game of basketball. Overton has been both an assistant at the NBA and college level. Eventually, he's going to get a look. |
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 6, 2017 14:37:38 GMT -5
I ... kinda come to the exact opposite conclusion there. Giannini was a good hire.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 14:43:28 GMT -5
That conclusion was implied maybe. Not to put words in his mouth But when lunatic says "wasted" I just take it he means b/c it's a sum of money to an outside consultant that could have been kept in house.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 6, 2017 14:45:50 GMT -5
I don't disagree... we didn't need to pay a firm to put us in touch with G. The person who alienated many prominent basketball people is out of the equation here... so it's definitely not necessary in 2017, if a coaching change is made.
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