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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 12:17:22 GMT -5
All I know is tht we would have almost certainly lost two games against quinnipiac and American if not for KL's hustle in the closing minute. He is disruptive and tenacious. Offense left some wanting but he improved there last year. It's just too bad he didn't have any games for us like he had against us. Sorry, but if we're in close games and/or possibly losing to Quinnipiac and American, then that's an indication that we really aren't a very good team...
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jul 14, 2015 12:42:45 GMT -5
All I know is tht we would have almost certainly lost two games against quinnipiac and American if not for KL's hustle in the closing minute. He is disruptive and tenacious. Offense left some wanting but he improved there last year. It's just too bad he didn't have any games for us like he had against us. Just to play Devil's advocate here, how many games did we lose b/c of his poor shot selection/ability? I think in the end we probably would've had the same record regardless. I like Lewis as a defensive spark off the bench but never felt strongly about his offensive game. His style dictates that he dribble a lot and have the ball a lot, and from the sound of it, G is looking to get out and run and have more ball movement than we had the last few years and Lewis' game didn't really fit that style as much. He had a role on this team, but my guess is that it was probably a reduced role than the past. The team would be better with him on it playing an appropriate role for his skill set, but he wanted more, so more power to him and I wish him well.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 13:01:04 GMT -5
All I know is tht we would have almost certainly lost two games against quinnipiac and American if not for KL's hustle in the closing minute. He is disruptive and tenacious. Offense left some wanting but he improved there last year. It's just too bad he didn't have any games for us like he had against us. Just to play Devil's advocate here, how many games did we lose b/c of his poor shot selection/ability? I think in the end we probably would've had the same record regardless. I like Lewis as a defensive spark off the bench but never felt strongly about his offensive game. His style dictates that he dribble a lot and have the ball a lot, and from the sound of it, G is looking to get out and run and have more ball movement than we had the last few years and Lewis' game didn't really fit that style as much. He had a role on this team, but my guess is that it was probably a reduced role than the past. The team would be better with him on it playing an appropriate role for his skill set, but he wanted more, so more power to him and I wish him well. I don't know if Lewis really ever lost us a game because of his shot selection. I think his shooting ability definitely didn't help us. Given what I just said, that makes him a non-factor. If you're a non-factor then you're 100% replaceable. I will say though that having a team that runs more and with less half-court sets would (at least imo) benefit Lewis, don't you think?
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 14:17:28 GMT -5
Any argument that the roster is better or neutral without Lewis is ridiculous. There are potential side benefits, especially if you believe this is a building year, but losing a rotation guard is never good.
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Post by calidelphia on Jul 14, 2015 14:43:16 GMT -5
Last year was another huge transition year with all new guards. There was no chemistry early on and that caused the close games. Expect that again early this year. I definitely don't think he lost us any games but he had the experience that the other guards lacked.
I like the almost complete break from the past. Hoping it is true about the system as we know it's true for te players. That half court offense was frustrating as he'll to watch.
We will be replacing about 55% of the minutes played last year with players in their first or second year in a la salle jersey. Chew on that.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 14:53:09 GMT -5
Any argument that the roster is better or neutral without Lewis is ridiculous. There are potential side benefits, especially if you believe this is a building year, but losing a rotation guard is never good. Completely disagree with "never good." It falls under addition by subtraction, especially when the perception is that the pieces replacing that person are better. Aaric Murray was a starter on the team and far more talented. However, he was replaced with lesser talented players and the team performed better. LaSalle doesn't have many players of note really ever coming off the bench (combined with multiple winning seasons to reference) so I can't really use them. So look at pro teams. The Spurs plug players into their rotation all the time and they never miss a beat nor slip. Bottom line is Lewis really didn't impact this team very much. He set a great example by playing hard, but so did Steve Weingarten. So did several others but the team didn't miss a beat when they left. I think you're confusing likeability with playing ability. There's been too much turnover this offseason to say this team suffered by "losing" Lewis, but if this team is .500 or better this season then you'll have to admit that this team did not miss him at all because quite frankly they are record-wise right where they were with him and are actually better off because the players developed and gained experience. If this team is well below .500 AND doesn't play hard, then you have an argument BUT at the same time you can't ignore the fact that the team also lost Jerrell and Zack...so given that, this team really isn't missing or losing anything by Lewis leaving, except having another body at practice. Rotation players are rotation for a reason...easily replaced.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 14:56:00 GMT -5
I definitely don't think he lost us any games but he had the experience that the other guards lacked. I agree with this...I don't think he lost any games at all. I don't believe he "won" us any games either. Someone mentioned his performance against Quinnipiac and American. We won one of those and lost the other. If we're worried about teams like that, then the talent on this team is not very good which means if we're relying on Lewis to make us better then we have very low expectations and completely misguided perception of what "good" really is.
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Post by lwc4591 on Jul 14, 2015 15:04:09 GMT -5
The loss of K. Lewis will hurt the win-loss record. Next season we will only have seven players we can depend on and three of those players have played little to no college basketball to date. In the long run it will really help down the road but this upcoming season is going to be rough, (13 wins maximum rough).
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 16:13:47 GMT -5
Completely disagree with "never good." It falls under addition by subtraction, especially when the perception is that the pieces replacing that person are better. But no one is replacing him. This isn't last year where you've got high-recruit potential in Shuler nailed to the bench and its not 2016-17 when you've got two major transfers adding to the mix of your other four guards. We're now down 53% of our minutes, or 106.5 of the 200 minutes we need per game. I know people have done the minutes breakouts before so I'd love to see those reposted and see how a simple shuffling around makes us better. (And that completely ignores the fact that no team makes it through a season without injuries.)
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 16:17:48 GMT -5
I guess a much easier way of saying that was "how do you run a 4 guard set when you only have 4 guards?"
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 16:46:37 GMT -5
Completely disagree with "never good." It falls under addition by subtraction, especially when the perception is that the pieces replacing that person are better. But no one is replacing him. This isn't last year where you've got high-recruit potential in Shuler nailed to the bench and its not 2016-17 when you've got two major transfers adding to the mix of your other four guards. We're now down 53% of our minutes, or 106.5 of the 200 minutes we need per game. I know people have done the minutes breakouts before so I'd love to see those reposted and see how a simple shuffling around makes us better. (And that completely ignores the fact that no team makes it through a season without injuries.) Shuler is replacing him. Shuler saw little to no game action last year. This season, he should be getting 20 minutes a game. Stukes will likely see a slight uptick in his minutes, likely 5 mins bringing him up to 27. Everybody is stuck on this 4 guard lineup. There will likely be at least 10 minutes per game in which Washington and Eugene will be on the court together, that alone removes the possibility of a 4 guard lineup for an entire game. People are also clamoring for Rohan to get more PT. I don't think he'll see too much of an increase in mpg BUT he'll probably now play more consistently (at least 15 games last year with less than 3 mpg). He'll probably get a consistent 5 per game EVERY game now and may be in the 10-12 mins per game range. So my guess is that about 15mpg we won't even be using a 4 guard lineup. That leaves a lot of time to mix up the rotations and give players a breather. We don't need to be 8-9 or even 10 deep. Having that many players is a luxury that a school like LaSalle will never have. Only teams like Duke or Kentucky can do that, and for a very long many of those same schools didn't even go that deep. We can go back and forth on this, but there's very little chance of someone changing my mind on the important of Lewis to this team. Below average shooter who's game is more of a combo guard as opposed to a PG. Combo guards are usually only any good if they're good scorers and he's not that. He had no ability to stretch the floor with his shooting and his ball handling was average at best. He was a good defensive player and did not hurt the team...but he didn't exactly help them either...he maintained the team which was average with if people don't remember, saw this team make mental mistakes time and time again, suffered from MULTIPLE scoring droughts each game, and had little ability to score from the perimeter outside of Price and Roberts (who too was inconsistent). People are worried about the unknown, I get that. But what IS known is that we weren't a very good team with Lewis who wasn't even a main player. The team will survive and move forward, and be better off in the long run.
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Post by player71 on Jul 14, 2015 17:23:06 GMT -5
I guess a much easier way of saying that was "how do you run a 4 guard set when you only have 4 guards?" Hopefully efficiently with little foul trouble!
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 18:12:21 GMT -5
Shuler is replacing him. Shuler saw little to no game action last year. This season, he should be getting 20 minutes a game. Stukes will likely see a slight uptick in his minutes, likely 5 mins bringing him up to 27. So Shuler, who had 6 minutes, is also replacing Lewis' 27? And Yevgen/Tony/Rohan will handle Wright/Zack/Rohan's 64.5? And DJ's 20+ go to ... who? The whole X for Y game falls apart when you have to come up with a complete scenario.
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Post by a10champion15 on Jul 14, 2015 19:04:54 GMT -5
So currently this is how the minutes will probably break down. As you all now there is 200 minutes in each game to go around. Let's say Karl Harris doesn't redshirt which is probably the case with Lewis's transfer. With around 40-60 minutes coming off the bench here would be the break down.
Stukes 25-35 Price 30-35+ Shuler 25-35 Roberts 30-35+ Eugene 25-35 Washington 25-35 Rohan 15-20 Harris 5-10
or you rather have where Harris redshirts
Stukes 20-30 Price 30-35+ Shuler 20-30 Roberts 30-35+ Lewis 20-30 Eugene 20-30 Washington 20-30 Rohan 10-15
I see both sides but seeing how this was Lewis's last season I rather have him. I really do think depth is overrated as well. However, I think I rather have Shuler play in the mid 20's as opposed to him averaging around 30. Don't think it hurts his development and when a guard or two having a bad game you at least have some type of real depth at the guard position as opposed to Karl Harris off the bench.
This season really hinges on Shuler. I really hope that want many of you have predicted and seen shows up come this fall.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 19:36:25 GMT -5
Shuler is replacing him. Shuler saw little to no game action last year. This season, he should be getting 20 minutes a game. Stukes will likely see a slight uptick in his minutes, likely 5 mins bringing him up to 27. So Shuler, who had 6 minutes, is also replacing Lewis' 27? And Yevgen/Tony/Rohan will handle Wright/Zack/Rohan's 64.5? And DJ's 20+ go to ... who? The whole X for Y game falls apart when you have to come up with a complete scenario. You and I both value Lewis and DJ completely differently. I saw both players as very similar in that they did not provide much (Lewis) or any (DJ) value on offense. Defensively they were decent...not going to say they were shut down defenders. I've seen posters on different occasions say both Lewis and DJ typically D'd up the opposing team's best offensive player, but many times that player still put up what they typically did OR some "nobody" had a career game, which essentially offsets anything DJ or Lewis did defensively. You're really caught up in the minutes split but yes, Shuler WILL see his minutes increase to the 20 min range. I'm not understanding why you're so worried about 2 players who COMBINED for 9ppg. That's completely laughable (no offense). Shuler's numbers suggest if you icnreased his minutes to 18mpg he'd average 7ppg (-2 vs DJ/Lewis). That difference will be negated by Stukes who will be better than the 5ppg he averaged last year. Others suggest that Eugene would be in the 8-12 range. That's right around what Jerrell did. Did Jerrell have higher scoring games than that? Of course, but if the reports out there are true, we could probably get at least 2-3 ppg from Washington this year. Rohan will be more than a 1 ppg performer. Cleon will be double digit (at least 10 though, not expecting too much more). I get it, you're afraid of the unknown. Continue to think that way, but the bottom line is that we were ONLY .500 last year and the year before WITH Lewis and DJ. This team didn't build on the success that those 2 including Jerrell and Zach had as freshmen and sophomores. If you're content with the status quo and not being open to change and taking a risk on the younger players then you'll be sitting in the same position as last season which is trodding out the same group of players hoping for a different outcome. Addition by subtraction. If the team struggles next year, they'll still be better off down the road by throwing these kids into the fire. The only way it would be a failure is if these kids fail to develop OR they're really just not good and their talent was overvalued. As I write that, I'm starting to believe that could be the case given how gaga people seem to be over Lewis and DJ...
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Post by a10champion15 on Jul 14, 2015 20:05:38 GMT -5
No one is concerned with DJs graduation. That was never the issue. Shuler was already taking DJs minutes which would have been in the low to mid 20 range for Shuler had Lewis stayed and everyone was on board with that.
Now Price, Roberts, Shuler and Stukes have to play even more minutes without any support at the guard position with the exception of Harris. Both Stukes and Shuler will now play close to 30 mins many games. With Lewis they would end up playing in the mid 20's without wearing themselves out and you have some insurance if there is an injury.
People are concerned because we have limited depth and now have to give Harris time and more importantly use a year of his eligibility when he isn't ready.
End of the day it comes down to this...would you rather have Lewis off the bench or Harris/Rohan off the bench first? I can't imagine anyone wouldn't say Lewis.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 20:18:46 GMT -5
No one is concerned with DJs graduation. That was never the issue. Shuler was already taking DJs minutes which would have been in the low to mid 20 range for Shuler had Lewis stayed and everyone was on board with that. Now Shuler and Stukes have to play even more minutes without any support at the guard position with the exception of Harris. Both Stukes and Shuler will now play close to 30 mins many games. With Lewis they would end up playing in the mid 20's without wearing themselves out and you have some insurance if there is an injury. People are concerned because we have limited depth and now have to give Harris time and more importantly use a year of his eligibility when he isn't ready. End of the day it comes down to this...would you rather have Lewis off the bench or Harris/Rohan off the bench first? I can't imagine anyone wouldn't say Lewis. How many college teams actually go 8 deep? And by that 8 players with 20 mins per game? Yes, injuries is a legit concern but you can't have depth at every position. This team just needs to stay healthy and that can be done with 7 players. This is basketball, not football. Don't be so concerned with redshirting players...for basketball that just doesn't make much sense. Who would I have off the bench first? Honestly, Shuler. I wouldn't have him in the starting line-up. I would have him come off the bench for instant offense and start Eguene and Washington. Not sure if it was you or another poster who said they like Shuler in the starting line-up but my choice would be to have him come off the bench but give him 20 mins each game. That way you can rotate your players better. When Shuler comes in, you sit Washington...few mins later give Stukes a break so he can get a breather while you have 2 ball handlers (Shuler/Price). We know Price and Roberts will play roughly 30 mins per game so you're really only rotating the other 4 positions.
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Post by a10champion15 on Jul 14, 2015 20:39:58 GMT -5
Yea I think Shuler will be the first guy off the bench with Price, Roberts, Stukes, Washington and Eugene starting. I would think the line up will mostly switch back and forth with 3 or 4 guards on the court depending on the matchup and what works better. It wouldn't have been 8 players with 20 something minutes though. You going to have 6 players taking around 30 minutes with Price and Roberts on the higher end. Rohan probably will probably take 10-20 mins and Harris 5-10 mins. I rather have Price and Roberts play 30 as opposed 6 players.
I just rather have Lewis gives us some support but I think he is better than a decent defender but that's just my opinion. I have a lot more faith in him to give us some help as opposed to Karl Harris or Rohan Brown.
I am blindly optimistic I would say because I think the team will be better offensively and good guards. Just depends how much of a step back the teams takes defensively but G rarely has put bad defensive teams no the court.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 20:47:43 GMT -5
I get it, you're afraid of the unknown. Do. The. Math.
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 21:15:23 GMT -5
I did it for you. Here are the lowest minutes per game in the A-10 last year ...
6th man: 17.4 (St. Bonaventure) 7th man: 10.2 (George Washington) 8th man: 7.0 (St. Joseph's of PA) 9th man: 5.4 (George Washington)
Those are minimums. We are, if you squint and wish, 8 players deep. We're effectively ... what? Price and Roberts are known. Our backcourt is now two sophomores. Our front court is made of up two guys who will be expected to average about 20 minutes more per game than they've combined for in their careers to date. Our 7th man is Rohan. Our 8th man is a mid-level true freshman. Lewis leaves a hole. You don't have to like Lewis or like Lewis' numbers or anything to understand that he leaves a hole because we were a short roster before a guy who average 27 minutes per game walked. We're much, much shorter now.
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 21:21:53 GMT -5
So currently this is how the minutes will probably break down. As you all now there is 200 minutes in each game to go around. Let's say Karl Harris doesn't redshirt which is probably the case with Lewis's transfer. With around 40-60 minutes coming off the bench here would be the break down. Stukes 25-35 Price 30-35+ Shuler 25-35 Roberts 30-35+ Eugene 25-35 Washington 25-35 Rohan 15-20 Harris 5-10 So many issues here, right? (1) We'd be counting on 6 players averaging a minimum of 25 minutes per game. Last year, only Dayton had that. (2) Bigger, I think, you're asking 25-35 from Tony. Jerrell was only able to average 28 as a senior. That average for a big, let alone an inexperience big, is a massive stretch. If he can give us 20 that's a win. (3) Rohan, who I love as a deep rotation guy, is playing 40% of the game because he's now our clear 7th best player.
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Post by mookie on Jul 14, 2015 21:40:49 GMT -5
I did it for you. Here are the lowest minutes per game in the A-10 last year ... 6th man: 17.4 (St. Bonaventure) 7th man: 10.2 (George Washington) 8th man: 7.0 (St. Joseph's of PA) 9th man: 5.4 (George Washington) Those are minimums. We are, if you squint and wish, 8 players deep. We're effectively ... what? Price and Roberts are known. Our backcourt is now two sophomores. Our front court is made of up two guys who will be expected to average about 20 minutes more per game than they've combined for in their careers to date. Our 7th man is Rohan. Our 8th man is a mid-level true freshman. Lewis leaves a hole. You don't have to like Lewis or like Lewis' numbers or anything to understand that he leaves a hole because we were a short roster before a guy who average 27 minutes per game walked. We're much, much shorter now. GW went with 4 players over 30mpg Bonnies went with 5 players over 30mpg And yea, let's Do. The. Math. 27 mpg 6 ppg 2 rpg 37% FG/33% 3pt/62% FT All below average stats... 2013-2014 15-17 2014-2015 17-16 Total - 32-33 This team wasn't going anywhere with Lewis playing significant minutes and there's 2 years of data supporting that...but hey, if you like those kinds of results then maybe you can give him a call talk him into staying for another shot at a .500 season. And didn't some of you guys WANT Rohan to get significantly more playing time? Well, now he should and people are going to complain? Some people will just find reasons to complain, but hey, it's your right. Good night...
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Post by MisterD on Jul 14, 2015 21:47:04 GMT -5
If you don't like what's for dinner, you can't just defiantly say "dinner sucks", you need to find something else to eat.
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Post by theneumann64 on Jul 14, 2015 22:01:25 GMT -5
I'll keep my take simple:
Shuler needs to play a lot more, this probably would have meant taking a lot of Lewis's minutes. Still would have been nice to have Lewis, if not for his defense, than just for being another replacement level guy, considering we're as deep as a Mexican Soap Opera right now.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jul 15, 2015 8:03:26 GMT -5
Is Tabby Cunningham still eligible?
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Post by coachd on Jul 15, 2015 8:25:06 GMT -5
Maybe we could petition the A10 and NCAA to have territorial recruiting... carve the city into distinct recruiting areas for each Philly school. If a school from outside the area wanted a kid then they'd have to either trade a recruit from their area or pay an agreed to sum.
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Post by mookie on Jul 15, 2015 8:35:21 GMT -5
If you don't like what's for dinner, you can't just defiantly say "dinner sucks", you need to find something else to eat. well, all you're doing is complaining so enjoy
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Post by 23won on Jul 15, 2015 10:37:43 GMT -5
I did it for you. Here are the lowest minutes per game in the A-10 last year ... 6th man: 17.4 (St. Bonaventure) 7th man: 10.2 (George Washington) 8th man: 7.0 (St. Joseph's of PA) 9th man: 5.4 (George Washington) Those are minimums. We are, if you squint and wish, 8 players deep. We're effectively ... what? Price and Roberts are known. Our backcourt is now two sophomores. Our front court is made of up two guys who will be expected to average about 20 minutes more per game than they've combined for in their careers to date. Our 7th man is Rohan. Our 8th man is a mid-level true freshman. Lewis leaves a hole. You don't have to like Lewis or like Lewis' numbers or anything to understand that he leaves a hole because we were a short roster before a guy who average 27 minutes per game walked. We're much, much shorter now. I hear what you are saying but try this on for size and let me know if you feel differently. '15-'16 Time Distribution Easy cases: 1)Price : averaged 32 mpg last year; will likely bump up to 35/36; no big deal 2)Roberts: averaged 29 mpg last year; will likely bump up to 34/35; no big deal This accounts for 70 of 200 minutes (35%) 3)Stukes: averaged 23 mpg last year; will likely bump up to 30 - 32; I see that as a plus since I like him better than KL. YMMV. So we have about 50% of the returning minutes accounted for between those 3, which frankly is something a lot of teams would like to have a handle on. Moving on beyond the low hanging fruit, here we go 4)Eugene: IMO, if he had been eligible, he would have averaged 20 mpg last year even with JW and SZ in the lineup. We really lacked a 6'7" body and someone who could score and pass. Thus, he would have easily taken 20 mpg from KL and DJ. I could see him going from a pro forma 20 mpg to 30 mpg next year. Yes, it sucks that we lose SZ and JW, but he is the best alternative that G could get in the frontcourt for this year, so 30 mpg is a reasonable ask. 6) Johnnie: IMO, he should have averaged 15 mpg last year. I won't dredge up old posts, but there is plenty on the record on that front from me. I could see him going from a pro forma 15 mpg to 25 mpg next year. I also can see him with many 30+ mpg games and earning more time as the season goes on. I will take him over KL in a NY City minute. YMMV. BTW, he likely will be our 6th man and my projected 25 mpg is about 50% higher than the A10's lowest mpg total last year, so that should not be a problem. 7) Brown : averaged 8 mpg last year; will likely bump up to 15-20; no big deal; he hustles, provides glue and has shown an increasing ability to score down low and away from the hoop. i am not expecting double digits, but I think he can deliver more than DJ and KL last year stat-wise. That is a good thing. As our 7th man, he projects out at 50-100% more mpg than last season's low, so we should be in good stead here. It's also nice that our 7th man has actual Sweet 16 experience and is a great "hustle leader." We now have 173 of 200 minutes accounted for. 5) TW, our projected 5th starter had 3 mpg last year, but let's face it that is not a shocker with SZ and JW in the frontcourt. As many have said, and which I will repeat, TW's performance will be a huge driver in whether we finish above or below the .500 mark we have averaged the last two years. I project him out at 20 mpg and we will need that since you cannot coach height or length. I think Tony will be a good performer. I like the way he moves around the hoop. I like the way he finishes. I think he will be a breakout A-10 performer. Lots to look forward to when Mr. (aka Dr.) G goes to Washington. 8) Karl Harris: I think he has an opportunity to be a sniper by season's end if our guards can move the ball around and hit him in space. Teams will slack off of him with JP, CR and JS in the lineup. Cheers to him making them pay for that. I foresee an average of 7 mpg next year. There you have it. Have at it!
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Post by MisterD on Jul 15, 2015 15:13:33 GMT -5
4 guys in the entire conference averaged 35+ last year.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 15:29:50 GMT -5
Everyone is going round and round whether Lewis' leaving is a good thing or a bad thing. The reality is it's a thing. He is gone. The team has 10 guys counting Harris that are on the team. It is going to be what it is. The team will make due. Hopefully, everyone will step and make this thing work. It will certainly give guys lots of experience.
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