La Salle Official Portal Thread - 2024

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 11:02:16 GMT -5 MisterD said:

I'm going to say you're both right? If he learned to really shoot, he's an NBA player because of his athleticism, but the odds of that happening given all we've seen to date are closer to 0% than 10%.

I don’t want this to devolve into a “putting down” Shepherd discussion. I think he’s a great athlete and whether it’s here or somewhere else next year, I’d love to see him develop a midrange game at a minimum. Jalen Brunson had an unstoppable midrange game in college and I hated watching it lol.

I guess though it would make more sense to be a better 3 pt shooter though because NBA always needs 3-and-D players but I just think it’s more likely a midrange game is attainable before the 3 in this case.

[JoeFedorowicz]

Nobody should strive to be a midrange player in today's game.

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 11:34:43 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

Nobody should strive to be a midrange player in today's game.

It’s a lost art and separates players. It’s not like traditional low post players in the NBA are outdated. It’s far easier and quicker to develop a midrange game than the 3. The midrange still is and will always be very valuable. But again, we can agree to disagree.

[JoeFedorowicz]

The best midrange players aren't getting paid anymore in the NBA. Nobody is trading for Demar Derozan or Tobias Harris. They're not getting max deals anymore. Even if you look at Brunson's shot chart, he's slightly above average on the left foul line, but most of his shots are threes or layups.

Now the college game...you can get away with it a little bit more because not everybody is as fast or tall or athletic. But it's a lost art because it's less useful. 

Again, in my opinion.

[lasallejohn]

This might be unpopular, but his demeanor reminds me of Ben Simmons. Never see any emotion out of him and that's fine. Just wish he did. I think his shooting numbers can improve. I thought his form when shooting all this year was much improved from the past and I would think that will ultimately lead to results. I'd like to see him try to dunk every ball in the lane next year too. 

[MisterD]

Kawhi Leonard is emotionless too.

[JoeFedorowicz]

He's not emotionless. He was a wreck after he missed that dunk.

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 11:58:03 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

The best midrange players aren't getting paid anymore in the NBA. Nobody is trading for Demar Derozan or Tobias Harris. They're not getting max deals anymore. Even if you look at Brunson's shot chart, he's slightly above average on the left foul line, but most of his shots are threes or layups.

Now the college game...you can get away with it a little bit more because not everybody is as fast or tall or athletic. But it's a lost art because it's less useful. 

Again, in my opinion.

I mean, we are talking about a player in college and not the pros right? And we are talking about a player who’s not even in NBA draft discussions right?

Side notes: Citing a player who is coming off a 3year 80M contract and one of the more sought after trade targets is a bad example. And regardless of Brunson’s shots are layups or 3s doesn’t take away from the fact that he takes 2x as many shots within the arc and is shooting 54% and that opens up his ability to get fouled and to the line which equates to 5 additional ppg. He’s not going to the line if he’s simply shooting 3s. Balance…

[JoeFedorowicz]

Yes, but the vast majority of those 2pt shots are around the rim...not midrange. College players are mimicking the professionals because that is what they want to be. Being deadly from 14-feet doesn't equate to some high value in the nba. I don't have the same shot charts for college that we have for the nba, so I can't point to who takes a lot of midrange shots.

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 13:31:32 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

Yes, but the vast majority of those 2pt shots are around the rim...not midrange. College players are mimicking the professionals because that is what they want to be. Being deadly from 14-feet doesn't equate to some high value in the nba. I don't have the same shot charts for college that we have for the nba, so I can't point to who takes a lot of midrange shots.

You’re really selling Brunson short. He’s deadly from midrange. If the shot is there and it’s needed, he’ll most likely make it. If the shot is there and needed from Shepherd, 60% chance he misses.

I get they mimick the pros, so do elementary kids.
Either way, 90% of the kids in college basketball are not going to the NBA, they’re going overseas. Shepherd is ticketed for overseas. Jack Clark could’ve been way more successful if he worked on his midrange but I guess it’s ok he didn’t because he transferred up and still shoots more than 50% of his shots from 3 while making only 28% and scoring 4ppg. Potentially highly productive and successful collegiate career (mid or high) vs just another guy.

[JoeFedorowicz]

I'll just drop this here. www.thebarkumd.com/sportsandoutdoors/2022/11/3/the-death-of-the-mid-range-jump-shot

[diehardexplorer]

Mar 18, 2024 13:51:01 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

I'll just drop this here. www.thebarkumd.com/sportsandoutdoors/2022/11/3/the-death-of-the-mid-range-jump-shot

here we go again.

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 13:51:01 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

I'll just drop this here. www.thebarkumd.com/sportsandoutdoors/2022/11/3/the-death-of-the-mid-range-jump-shot

Yea I’m familiar with the analytics and how the game has evolved. This makes sense as part of a strategy. If you want to just say shoot 3s then go ahead, this team will fail doing that. Shepherd will not be successful doing that. Not everybody can and should shoot 3s but have at it.

[JoeFedorowicz]

Is it more likely that he becomes a 50% midrange guy or a 33% three point guy though? You're saying be a good midrange player...that doesnt make any sense because nobody wants that.

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 14:06:16 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

Is it more likely that he becomes a 50% midrange guy or a 33% three point guy though? You're saying be a good midrange player...that doesnt make any sense because nobody wants that.

There are 3 scoring levels and 67% of which are within the arc and more than 55% of the shots are taken at those levels. I’m saying Shepherd and most players should become good at more than 1 level. After 3 years of college ball, he’s not going to magically become a good 3 pt shooter.

Like I said, balance but if you want to die on that hill then go for it. 3.

[MisterD]

NBA shot attempts by %: 0-10 ft, 2 pointers >10 ft, 3 pointers:
2024: 45.4, 15.3, 39.3
2014: 45.5, 28.5, 25.9
2004: 44.4, 37.0, 18.7

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 15:32:39 GMT -5 MisterD said:

NBA shot attempts by %: 0-10 ft, 2 pointers >10 ft, 3 pointers:
2024: 45.4, 15.3, 39.3
2014: 45.5, 28.5, 25.9
2004: 44.4, 37.0, 18.7

I acknowledge the game has evolved. I don’t refute that.
What I refute is blindly saying shoot 3s because all Joe argues is shoot 3 and forget everything else. There has to be balance. We’re talking about a college game not the NBA. Shepherd isn’t going to the NBA even if he upped his 3 to 35%. He needs to be above 38% and that’s a HUGE jump for him. What’s more likely? Him developing a jumper between 10-15ft or him jumping his 3% by 8-10%?

Again, if you want to have players who aren’t good at shooting 3s, shooting 3s solely because the game has trended in that direction and analytics say it’s better to shoot 3 then have at it. At least everybody’s rebounding numbers will increase along with this team’s empty possession rate.

[mookie]

15 pages to go…

[MisterD]

I agree with you on both him not having the skillset to get to 35% and that it would take a lot more for him to be even remotely close to the league. That said, I'd still have him shooting a million a day because that's still his path, not trying to hit from 18 feet out. I'm going to look something else up about that now ...

[mookie]

Mar 18, 2024 16:02:29 GMT -5 MisterD said:

I agree with you on both him not having the skillset to get to 35% and that it would take a lot more for him to be even remotely close to the league. That said, I'd still have him shooting a million a day because that's still his path, not trying to hit from 18 feet out. I'm going to look something else up about that now ...

I’d be interested on what you find regarding that. He should continue to work on his 3. Don’t think he should abandon it, just don’t think that should be where half his shots are coming from.

[MisterD]

Alright, this is nonsense but I already did it so here we go ...

329 players are at 500+ minutes this season. If you break it into the three segments above (inside 10, >10 ft 2s, 3s), this is the player efficiency (points per shot) ...

Inside 10 feet: 204 players (league average 115.3 points per 100 shots, 120.7 for this group)
3 pointers: 112 players (101.4 league, 120.3 group)

So 316 players are most efficient scoring either in the paint or from 3 point range, but that's not who we're talking about sooo ...

[drum roll]

>10 foot 2s: 13 players (79.9 league, 142.65 group)

BUT!!!

For the group of 13 that's most efficient from mid-range, only 5 have taken double-digit shot attempts and only 3 (Jevon Carter, Max Christie, Georges Niang) have taken 25+ mid-range shots. I understand there are times you have no choice and I'm sure you could argue a mid-range threat makes for more open 3s and driving lanes, but its just really not a shot worth taking. Its hard but also of very little relative value.

[MisterD]

So essentially no one should take anything but paint shots and 3s, but because there's all that other space, sometimes it happens and when it does, it drastically lowers your chances of points over even a small span of attempts.

[JoeFedorowicz]

Thanks for the hard work.

[gonzothegreat]

I did not miss many home games the last two years. One thing that was clear at these games was the excitement Shep brought I understand we all want our players to shoot better, etc, but he was solid for a large part of this year and became a clear fan favorite. I know winning is the goal, but if we want butts in the new arena seats, a guy like Shep is important. I think he has a lot of upside potential to be a difference maker next season and really hope he stays.

[23won]

I like Shep annd Anwar. Anwar always played well in DC. With Deuce coming in I have no issue with him doing his final lap around DC.

Id do hope Shep comes back.

I see these as testing the market for an FMV. If La Salle can match or beat Shep's best offer, I think we deserve the shot to keep him. If not, I totally would understand his business decision.

[MisterD]

That's where I am. I really hope he comes back because he'll get more usage and he's just fun as hell to watch, but I won't begrudge any transfer who leaves, be it for money or situation or whatever.

[theneumann64]

Breaking on Twitter now that Brickus is in the portal.

[theneumann64]

He was here 4 years, can't fault him for trying to use his extra year to play up somewhere.

[GlitterBro #2]

so right now, 45% of our offensive production is in the portal.

[explorers26]

It seems like it's only a matter of time before Brantley enters as well. Unless anyone has any info on him that says otherwise?