And ... the gloves are now off !

[gymrat67]

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/players-suit-would-upend-cartel-ncaa-college-conferences-n55966

[durenduren]

"former UCLA power forward Ed O’Bannon, who now sells cars outside of Las Vegas, has sued the NCAA for a cut of its TV revenue and the money it makes selling the likenesses of current and former players to video-game makers..."

So now we're going to back log this stuff now too? Everyone wants a piece!

[MisterD]

O'Bannon is kind of the Curt Flood of this whole deal, isn't he?

[coachd]

Mar 19, 2014 8:00:04 GMT -5 MisterD said:

O'Bannon is kind of the Curt Flood of this whole deal, isn't he?

No.

[MisterD]

Please don't go into some "he didn't lose his career over it" history lesson. O'Bannon was the first to sue for a player's right to compensation.

[durenduren]

Mar 19, 2014 8:00:04 GMT -5 MisterD said:

O'Bannon is kind of the Curt Flood of this whole deal, isn't he?

From my understanding, yes. Still inclined to believe that his motivation is purely a money-grab situation. Highly touted prospect, top 10 draft pick that never adapted to the NBA, made money overseas, and now that he's been relegated to a common man's job he'll try going back in time.

I'm torn on the subject itself, but I firmly think O'Bannon is an O'Boner with dollar signs in his eyes.

[coachd]

O'Bannon was paid with free tuition, room and board. He also had access to tutors and academic advisors. If you start paying college players does the NBA cease to exist? Extend college to 6 years of eligibility?

O'Bannon accepted the free tuition, academic advice, housing and food... case closed. Go write a book or open a business if you want additional income.

[MisterD]

Sounds pretty socialist, dude.

[MisterD]

Mar 19, 2014 8:51:51 GMT -5 durenduren said:

From my understanding, yes. Still inclined to believe that his motivation is purely a money-grab situation. Highly touted prospect, top 10 draft pick that never adapted to the NBA, made money overseas, and now that he's been relegated to a common man's job he'll try going back in time.

I'm torn on the subject itself, but I firmly think O'Bannon is an O'Boner with dollar signs in his eyes.

Sure its a money grab, but you could label literally anything where a person is lobbying for personal financial gain to be a money grab, right? Doesn't make it wrong or an invalid stance.

[coachd]

Mar 19, 2014 9:18:08 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Sounds pretty socialist, dude.

Do you just give them a check for $65k per year and let them pay for everything including tuition and food and housing? Why bother making them go to class, they could just take online courses and never set foot on-campus except for the basketball practices and games.

[MisterD]

You give them a percentage of what they're earning for the university.

[Deleted]

If they get paid it must be a stipend, token amount (defined wage) but it will never be "enough" for the arguments of unfairness to go away. The problem is, allowing players to be bought and traded on the open market could make a mockery out of the college selection process.

NCAA could have cleaned this up a long time ago by showing the money actually goes back into the university development to cultivate more learning and subsidizing the sports that can't raise enough revenue to break even, which is not to say that their buying additional PR for themselves, showing how wonderful they are, in their own view, is a solution to the problem.

Problems that the open market has failed to properly address: Should there be a salary cap on coaches? Why are they given mansions and cars? Why do tickets cost almost as much if not more than a professional game?

[durenduren]

Mar 19, 2014 9:22:14 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Mar 19, 2014 8:51:51 GMT -5 durenduren said:

From my understanding, yes. Still inclined to believe that his motivation is purely a money-grab situation. Highly touted prospect, top 10 draft pick that never adapted to the NBA, made money overseas, and now that he's been relegated to a common man's job he'll try going back in time.

I'm torn on the subject itself, but I firmly think O'Bannon is an O'Boner with dollar signs in his eyes.

Sure its a money grab, but you could label literally anything where a person is lobbying for personal financial gain to be a money grab, right? Doesn't make it wrong or an invalid stance.

I think O'Bannon's case will create more issues than resolutions, not sure how you'd go back and pay out for former NCAA players. If (and that's a big if) you do pay players, I think you'd need to start with the present because you can't just arbitrarily decide what year to create a cut-off at going back. I'm a bigger fan of the "stipend" idea Hykos suggested, but I also agree that this creates a slippery slope and it'll likely never be enough to quench the thirst.

[MisterD]

How does every class action lawsuit get paid out? Its not exactly an unheard of situation.

[thehawkisdead]

How many thousands of players saw their likenesses used in video games over the years? I specifically bought all the EA sports and ESPN NCAA hoops games so I could play with an Explorer team with a lineup of "5," 12," "25," "45,"and "52." If obannon's lawsuit prevails, it'd have to be a massive class-action suit with thousands of plaintiffs who'd probably end up coming away with 50 bucks each. And I'm sure "52," for example, (Garrett Bragg) would be entitled to equal compensation as o'bannon, correct?

Then you have the problem of individual schools also profiting off players' likenesses (best recent example being Kentucky/Nike selling "fear the brow" merchandise, among countless other examples).

The lawsuit has been kicking around for so long, I just can't see it ever going anywhere.

The only thing it has accomplished is it got EA sports out of the college sports business.

[durenduren]

Thank god I'm not making these decisions, because I end up questioning myself the more I think about it each time this comes up.

[gymrat67]

The toothpaste is officially out of the tube. Now the feeding frenzy will begin in earnest.

espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10620388/anti-trust-claim-filed-jeffrey-kessler-challenges-ncaa-amateur-model


This Newark, NJ U.S. District Court case will probably trigger the filing of similar federal court class action certification lawsuits all over the United States, which ( due to the breadth and scope of the New Jersey action allegations ) will probably result, at some point early on, in all of these class action lawsuits being consolidated with attorney Kessler's New Jersey lawsuit in Newark as the lead case, pursuant to the now well-established U.S. District Court Multi-District Litigation Consolidation rules and procedures.

[MisterD]

And now I'm picturing Ed O'Bannon eating toothpaste.

[durenduren]

Heard he's more of an Arm & Hammer kinda guy.

[coqui900]

The lawsuit is moving forward. Class action lawsuits are complicated messes -- there's the plaintiff v. defendant part of it AND there also there "what does the class actually constitute?" part and crazy procedural processes for both ends. But they're getting towards the end game (with the potential for appeals). How long that takes is up in the air but it is moving forward.

And it is as huge a deal as Curt Flood. Curt Flood was all about restraint-of-trade. This is about restraint-of-trade but at least Curt Flood got monetary reward for his services.

All college athletes get is essentially a form of barter. Who in their right mind would work for a company and get no reward for it but a free house with a little bit of a stipend attached? That's essentially the equivalent in terms of dollar value. And on top of it, your boss can just take away your house at any time he wants, you have to jump through all sorts of hoops if you want to move into a new house (including wasting a year where you can market your abilities), you can't work to make any extra money and all sorts of other issues.

College sports: The hardest thing in the world to actually like!

[MisterD]

Major takedown, and you didn't even mention that, regardless of competency, they aren't allowed to go professional at the highest level post HS like most sports-slash-professions.

[coachd]

Mar 19, 2014 9:33:20 GMT -5 MisterD said:

You give them a percentage of what they're earning for the university.

It sounds like you have a formula for calculating an exact percentage for each student-athlete. Not even the smartest mathematician would be able to tell you how much Tyreek Duren generated for us vs. Tyrone Garland vs. Taylor Dunn, etc. I do think that coaches should have an NCAA imposed hard salary cap to keep expenses within reason and prevent state schools from out-bidding smaller private institutions for coaching talent. Max the salary cap at around $350k per year. Not sure if you can cap spending on facilities to prevent the state schools from dominating in that area.

Also recruiting violations need to be attached to the coach as well as the university. It would carry heavy fines and prevent a coach like Calipari from escaping sanctions by jumping to another university. If a coach jumps to the NBA or out of coaching, he still must face wage garnishment for violations he is found guilty of

Student-athletes do not share in the revenue mainly because "they didn't build it, but just add to it". They did not build the university or the arena nor did they create the fan-base... they are a part of the revenue stream but it would not dry up if a specific individual didn't participate..

[MisterD]

Mar 19, 2014 11:49:13 GMT -5 coachd said:

It sounds like you have a formula for calculating an exact percentage for each student-athlete. Not even the smartest mathematician would be able to tell you how much Tyreek Duren generated for us vs. Tyrone Garland vs. Taylor Dunn, etc.

Nor does my occupation or presumably most occupations here, right? Strawman.

[durenduren]

Mar 19, 2014 11:45:11 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Major takedown, and you didn't even mention that, regardless of competency, they aren't allowed to go professional at the highest level post HS like most sports-slash-professions.

The NBA only serves the NBA. They have no issue leaving the NCAA to deal with the complicated situation they create. Shame they seemingly don't care to get on the same side of the issue, maybe work together.

[MisterD]

I don't really buy that at all. If there was no NCAA / free minor leagues, the NBA wouldn't have the age restriction.

[coqui900]

I don't think a coach should get a penalty for leaving for a better job in the NBA, flaming out, and then coming back to college. That happens.

But if kids have to sit out a year when transferring, why shouldn't coaches have to do the same? I mean, a coach can still get paid during his year sabbatical, just like athletes get the benefits of free tuition.

The worst, though, is someone like Bruce Pearl being one of the sleaziest humans around and getting paid to go to Auburn after sitting out a few years. That's real commendable and respectful of your mission, Auburn.

[durenduren]

But by that take, isn't the NBA just using the NCAA as a one year, maturation machine. From the NBA's perspective, it's a free development camp that allows scouts to get a look at players against some honest competition. That age requirement gives players the incentive to do college ball for 1 year, all while serving the NBA and wrecking a portion of the NCAA.

I'm admittedly not a fan of the NBA like I am college ball, but I don't think this one-and-done stuff serves anyone but the NBA. It risks the players' health, their missed payout, and the rental player aspect isn't hot.

And we're officially off topic.

[MisterD]

Well, it does serve the NCAA as well. One year of Parker and Wiggins and etc is better than zero years of those guys.

[theneumann64]

Realistically, we're decades past the point where we can justify the existence of "big time" College Football and Basketball. If you were drawing the system up now, never in a thousand plans would the "minor leagues" for basketball and football be tied to higher education institutions.
But that's what we have, so here it is.

The NBA really can't be blamed here, although part of me wished they would fully commit to a D League kind of thing where you could enter at 18, had to play 3 years there minimum, and were paid a relatively minor fee (sort of like the rookie wage scale). But that's really not economically feasible. But if they're willing to subsidize a league that loses money hand over fist in the name of political correctness (WNBA), maybe they'd be willing to go all in on another one?

I dunno. There's no good solutions to this, only less bad ones.

[MisterD]

I don't see "colleges make tremendous profits off football and basketball" rather than "colleges make super tremendous profits off football and basketball" as an awful option.