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Post by calsufan on Jun 23, 2013 12:33:32 GMT -5
I'm at the game and just saw G throw out the first pitch. He threw off the rubber and got the ball over the plate. They showed highlights from the season and the NCAA's on the centerfield scoreboard. The announcer even referenced the Southwest Philly Floater. G's pitch could be th highlight of the game since Lannan's pitching for the Phillies.
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Post by glorydays on Jun 23, 2013 13:37:50 GMT -5
I should know this but is G a righty or lefty.
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Post by 20thandolney on Jun 23, 2013 13:53:37 GMT -5
He was just interviewed by Murphy during the 5th inning.
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Post by lwc4591 on Jun 23, 2013 13:56:05 GMT -5
G throws much better than these clowns umpire. Sad how piss poor these ass clowns are in today's game. Revere catches ball and rule it a non catch but beyond any reasonable doubt it was a catch. Probably won't matter because the Filthies are not scoring today because they have reached their limit for runs this week.
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Post by explorer88 on Jun 23, 2013 14:00:03 GMT -5
Phillies are running into a real pitcher today. Once the Mets scored their first run it was over.
Amaro is an absolute stiff of a GM. Worst in a city filled with bad GM's.
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Post by lwc4591 on Jun 23, 2013 14:08:29 GMT -5
Agreed Mik. Pro sports in Philly is so so bad it makes it very difficult to hold off until Nov for basketball to start up. I don't follow pro sports much anymore but love college and high school games.
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Post by thehawkisdead on Jun 23, 2013 14:16:43 GMT -5
Outsider's perspective on the phils: Amaro made the kind of 'go for it' trades and signings that fans were thirsting for for years: Lee (twice), Halladay, oswalt, pence, etc. I think he did the right thing in trying to strike gold for a second time after 08, and it just didn't happen. They were the best team in the NL in 09, 10 and 11 and happened to run into the hot team those last two years. I can't kill him for trying to squeeze another title out of the core of Howard, utley and Rollins. It didn't work, but unloading those veterans for a bunch of prospects would have enraged the fan base, plus is a hugely risky proposition as well.
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Post by lwc4591 on Jun 23, 2013 14:32:07 GMT -5
Dead, Manuel sucks as a coach and I stated this even when it was unpopular in 2008 when they won the series. He has a career 260's hitter as leadoff eventhough he doesn't run balls out and can't get on often enough to been in that position in the lineup. Most of his players can't move runners over and can't bunt to save their ass. Howard is so bad at first that he doesn't have enough faith in his game to even look to second on a ball hit his way with a runner on first. He was beat in series by teams who were fundamentally sound which his teams never are. My nickname for him is BIG INNING CHARLIE and after this season it will be GO HOME CHARLIE. If I am Lee, Utley, Paplebum or Hamels a beg to be traded to get away from this pile of SH.. team.
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Post by ck on Jun 23, 2013 14:39:58 GMT -5
I'm probably in the minority, but I thought the Revere call was correct, close and could have gone either way, but not as bad as many umpires balls and strikes.
My family doctor wants others traded but Lee kept. I'd trade Lee, Papelbon, and-if you can get anything for him- Chase Utley by the trade deadline. let Chooch go (hurt and too expensive). By next spring bring up Ashby at third, put kids at second and backup (Joseph?) at catcher. Give Babe Ruf several months in left field, andin the unlikely event someone would take Ryan Howard and half his salary put Ruf at first base. Use the money made available, and prospects picked up in trades, to start inevitable rebuilding.
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Post by lwc4591 on Jun 23, 2013 14:44:21 GMT -5
Ck are you a Mets fan because they suck more than the Filthies. By the way is your doctor an eye doctor and if he is you better get a new doctor. Don't defend incompetent umpires because no matter how you look at it Revere caught the ball and simply was reaching down to throw it back in.
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Post by 1stflooredwards on Jun 23, 2013 18:48:15 GMT -5
Phillies are running into a real pitcher today. Once the Mets scored their first run it was over. Amaro is an absolute stiff of a GM. Worst in a city filled with bad GM's. This may be the most over the top statement you've made. And that says a lot since you are the guy who once called for getting rid of all the under/upper (I can't remember which) classman. ps Have you seen some of the moves the Sixers and Eagles have made over the last couple years? |
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Post by explorer88 on Jun 23, 2013 19:01:16 GMT -5
Phillies are running into a real pitcher today. Once the Mets scored their first run it was over. Amaro is an absolute stiff of a GM. Worst in a city filled with bad GM's. This may be the most over the top statement you've made. And that says a lot since you are the guy who once called for getting rid of all the under/upper (I can't remember which) classman. ps Have you seen some of the moves the Sixers and Eagles have made over the last couple years? Sorry bro but he is the worst. In everything I have posted I post my thoughts. You can disagree . No problem with that. I will never change that to make others happy. Disagreements happen all of the time. You are diggin' deep in the archives. That must have stung you big-time to bring that up 8 or so years later. |
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Post by glorydays on Jun 23, 2013 19:14:25 GMT -5
This may be the most over the top statement you've made. And that says a lot since you are the guy who once called for getting rid of all the under/upper (I can't remember which) classman. ps Have you seen some of the moves the Sixers and Eagles have made over the last couple years? Sorry bro but he is the worst. In everything I have posted I post my thoughts. You can disagree . No problem with that. I will never change that to make others happy. Disagreements happen all of the time. You are diggin' deep in the archives. That must have stung you big-time to bring that up 8 or so years later. 88, you have to admit that your "jettison" post was a classic. It is funny I remember the post but not exactly what it said. I think it was after the '06 Penn game. I have had a couple of posts that I hope people don't remember at all. General managers??...Where have you gone Tony DiLeo? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 19:25:34 GMT -5
This may be the most over the top statement you've made. And that says a lot since you are the guy who once called for getting rid of all the under/upper (I can't remember which) classman. ps Have you seen some of the moves the Sixers and Eagles have made over the last couple years? Sorry bro but he is the worst. In everything I have posted I post my thoughts. You can disagree . No problem with that. I will never change that to make others happy. Disagreements happen all of the time. You are diggin' deep in the archives. That must have stung you big-time to bring that up 8 or so years later. Manuel/Amaro get a pass from me - he can't be the worst because his championship is still really not that far removed and I'm glad he paid the core of players handsomely instead of blowing it up right away like many other champions in baseball do. With 30 teams in baseball it is still impressive that Phils were able to compete at the highest level for 4 straight seasons consecutively. In order to get the 2008 talent together he really had to mortgage the farm system and raise the payroll, including retaining guys like Howard and Utley and Rollins, who have been franchise players for their whole careers. Amaro bets heavy and wins half the time so the worst he can do is come out even. The Sixers can't be the worst because at least they are trying something different under new ownership. We'll see in three years. The Union are bouncing back well from one half of one bad season. Eagles have been pretty awful the last two years despite being self crowned dream team. You have to admit Laurie is the worst. Flyers are on notice... because last year with the strike better have been a fluke. As it stands now, Amaro > Flyers organization because he seems to have set himself up well to be able to seek out and go get a contender almost every July. The other owners in Philly don't spend the money. |
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Post by scarletexplorer on Jun 23, 2013 19:37:16 GMT -5
Important clarification: Amaro had nothing to do with that championship; it was all Pat Gillick. Amaro took Gillick's team and ran it into the ground. He has no championships to his name as GM.
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Post by explorer88 on Jun 23, 2013 19:39:16 GMT -5
Glory Days the three worst days for me as a La Salle fan are:
Penn debacle in '06. Jettison game.
The 30 point drubbing from Lamar Odom and Rhode Island in 99 I believe the year was.
The day of the Gary Neal rape charge.
Emotions get the best of me sometimes. I am no blind loyalist.
As far as Amaro the Sixers and Eagles have different GM's now. I think Chip Kelly may be making all the decisions now. I understand Hykos' point about giving the Phillies some rope for the championship but Amaro has one of the highest payrolls and can't make the right decisions on most of his moves. He blows!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 21:00:57 GMT -5
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Post by 1stflooredwards on Jun 23, 2013 21:06:24 GMT -5
Important clarification: Amaro had nothing to do with that championship; it was all Pat Gillick. Amaro took Gillick's team and ran it into the ground. He has no championships to his name as GM. If you really want to be technical, take a look at the 2008 lineup and tell me if it was Pat Gillick or Ed Wade. |
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jun 23, 2013 21:26:47 GMT -5
Wasn't it Arbuckle more than anyone else?
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Post by coqui900 on Jun 23, 2013 21:56:26 GMT -5
Amaro's a perfectly fine GM. The Phils just had the best run in baseball since the Atlanta Braves. Five division championships in a row, one WS championship, another appearance and a 100+ win season. That's an amazing run. Their best players got old. That's what happened.
Only NY and Boston can put together teams that should get in the playoffs every year, and even they have their slip-ups.
The Phils attendance being down isn't shocking -- they sold out for over three years straight and had the highest TV ratings in baseball (or close to it). They're not as good so interest is obviously going to wane.
How they fix the team is beyond me. It's not an easy fix. Start from scratch? Just tinker w/ a few parts? Who knows. But Rube is far from the worst GM in the city and far from the worst in baseball.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jun 23, 2013 23:54:22 GMT -5
Jesus- before Doc could get back to his seat, friggin Harvey hits the BS double and young lines one into LF....
The phillies problems are going to get MUCH worse if Amaro doesn't recognize the trade value he holds right now with Papelbon, Utley and Lee right now to make the necessary moves to get draft picks and solid prospects to build the future, otherwise, it might be 10 Or more years before they are contenders again (1976, 77, 78, 80, 81, 83 made us wait until a flash in the pan in 1993 and then 14 years until 2007. So that's basically 1 great year out of 24. We could be on that path again right now if RAJ thinks the uninjured/young versions of Utley, Rollins, Howard and Hamels are coming out of the clubhouse- and he and uncle cholly seem to think these guys are still capable of having MVP years for some reason
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Post by glorydays on Jun 24, 2013 5:56:06 GMT -5
88, you didn't quit on the program. Hell, I took a 10 year leave.
There have been a lot of bad moments. Any loss to Delaware brings special pain.
Forget the Phillies.
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Post by sweat83 on Jun 24, 2013 10:05:23 GMT -5
At least with young pitchers like Harvey and Wheeler, there is a glimmer of hope for Mets fans. Looks like hitting started to come around, and they are finally starting to score some runs, which had been brutal up until a couple of weeks ago. The killer this year has been Ike Davis. If he had hit at least .250 instead of .150 story could be a little different this year. Kids playing now are getting some good experience. We'll see.
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Post by 23won on Jun 24, 2013 12:40:52 GMT -5
I think Gillick deserves the credit for '08 and our contending in '09 and '10. Our current state relates back to the decisions of Amaro. Amaro can't be faulted for resigning Howard -- everyone wanted him back and folks would have gone nuts if we had let him go. Rollins should not have been re-signed but was; that is choking a lot of money that could have been put to productive uses, like getting an outfielder who can hit and middle releif help, which has been abyssmal. The individual personnel choices and use/non-use of prospects has been pretty lousy.
Prospects need at bats and continuity to develop. We have no right handed power and the team continues to send out Ryan H against lefties. This year, he is batting .190 and strikes out almost half the time against lefties. When he fails, the excuse is it's his knee. Play Ruf, rest up Ryan against lefties and you should improve on both counts drastically. If Ruf can't improve on Howard's numbers against lefties I would be shocked.
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Post by La Salle 08 on Jun 24, 2013 13:10:21 GMT -5
I am still not over how rude and arrogant Rube was when he came to speak at my firm last summer. Our equities/options firm uses advanced analytics and data analysis as a tool in trading, so naturally the majority of baseball conversations around the office revolve around SABRmetrics and "advanced" stats.
Most of the Q&A session was focused on the methods he and the organization use to evaluate talent, I couldn't believe that a Standford guy was so adamantly against advanced stats. It was like because he comes from a baseball family, that stats were something evil to him. It's one thing to augment your solid team with clubhouse guys, it's another to build a team out of them when none of them can hit (and I'd argue that "good clubhouse" guys have a lesser affect on baseball clubs that hockey and basketball teams for SURE - and impossible to quantify the impact they have).
Great clubhouse guys like Michael Young and Ben Revere are really paying off huh? If Rube and Charlie hadn't lucked into created such a terrible outfield so that Dom Brown was FINALLY given the oppurtunity to play everyday, this team would be even worse offensively (which is hard to imagine).
There is no way the Phillies are sellers this July, because it's Rube's head if they tank so what's his incentive to trade Cliff/Chase/Paplebon? I personally want them to sell, but I don't see it happening.
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Post by durenduren on Jun 24, 2013 14:01:10 GMT -5
Ruin Tomorrow, Jr.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jun 24, 2013 14:11:28 GMT -5
RAJ is on the record as saying "I don't care about walks" - REALLY!?!? Walks = baserunners, baserunners = opportunity to score runs. When your lineup can't get on base by actually HITTING the ball - you need to take a lot of walks so that in the off chance there actually are 2 hits in an inning, you can generate a run.
What Amaro is failing to recognize are some basic fundamentals of baseball let alone the advanced statistics. In order for the Phillies to win games they need to generate 2 or 3 innings of 4 or 5 hits, which they can't do. throw in their inability to draw walks and then they really can't score runs. He's acting as though the 2006-2009 versions of Utley, Howard and Rollins are coming out of the dugout and that they will miraculously "return to form" - the problem is, every player has a peak career year that they never repoeat - those guys had career years in 2007-2009 and now it's over but he won't accept it.
If they don't move some of these guys to get good talent in return they are going to be left with these guys rolling off contracts and getting zero in return, only to prolong the rebuilding.
Good news for me is how cheap tickets are now that the so-called "fans" no longer attend games like they are Jimmy Buffett concerts and I can get back to watching the game.
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Post by calidelphia on Jun 24, 2013 18:00:55 GMT -5
If they don't move some of these guys to get good talent in return they are going to be left with these guys rolling off contracts and getting zero in return, only to prolong the rebuilding. This thread took a pretty bad turn, I haven't seen this vitriol on a La Salle board in quite a while. As a mets fan, I advise you to cut ties now or forever pay your next version of bobby bonilla. I would also advise you start with the guy that pulled this move on saturday.It wasn't offensive, just uncomfortable. |
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Post by coqui900 on Jun 24, 2013 21:23:49 GMT -5
The thing with the Ruin Tomorrow Jr. quip -- who among the prospects the Phillies traded away have turned into anything? A few are still out (the guys in the Pence trade) but aside from that it's been a lot of crap, for the most part, unless I'm completely forgetting.
They had a window and Ruben was right to try and win it during that period of time.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jun 25, 2013 9:04:39 GMT -5
I agree Ruben did what was needed at the time, and in all honesty, the Phillies were prohibitive favorites to win the WS in 2010 and 2011 and came up short on the field. They had the pieces in place on the field but couldn't get the job done. For me, 2011 was the year that they missed the biggest opportunity. It's also part of the reason I hate the Wild Card in baseball because I feel in some ways it diminishes the value of winning your division or being the best team during the regular season. However, Cliff Lee blowing that lead in game 3 or 4 has nothing to do with it so the other issue was the players not getting it done on the field.
Regardless, the window for this team as it is currently constructed, has closed. It's time for the management team to recognize it and understand that in order to open the window again they need some new players. if they want to let these contracts roll off, that's fine, but they better understand that it only prolongs the rebuilding of the team. Right now the only players they have with trade value that they should be willing to move (in descending order): Lee, Papelbon, Utley, Ruiz, Rollins - and in all honesty, I'm not sure they can rebuild quickly enough to make Hamels a part of another championship run so he might be your most valuable piece of the puzzle but there's such a limited market for him and that contract that I'm not sure there is a trade partner out there with the right prospects.
I would try and move Utley to a team like the Pirates who could rent him for the rest of this season and maybe try and make a run. Not sure if Cleveland has the pieces to be a partner, but maybe you could send Lee back there, Rollins would probably be happy to go back to Oak-town and try and make a run there.
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