Going Small in 2013

[explorerman]

Alright Explorer Fanatics,

Since things are slightly slowing down on the board, I was recently on a flight and thinking of future lineups in 2013-14 and 2014-15.

Then, I thought well what happens if we go small. I understand that people believe that we will not be using the 4 guard lineup as much next year. I understand that mindset, it is very logical. Personally, I would like them to continue to go small because it plays to our strength and forces other teams to adjust.

So, everyone if we did go small next year who do you put out there and why? Picking the big also was very interesting because each big now on the roster literally is different from one another. Zack= taller, yet less agile but with very good hands and a mid range shot; Wright= athletic, strong and an above average finisher around the basket but slightly undersized to play by himself; Davis= strong+, an absolute pounder, however, with that strength is slightly slower; and Washington= taller and very agile and, I have heard from everyone that has seen him (I haven't seen him) that he plays taller than his height, yet he is thin and raw.

So if we go small, do you go with the taller, yet slower big with good hands and passing skills or do you go with the better finisher and undersized big or do you go with the unknown strength or the taller, agile big...

Duren
Mills
Garland
Peterson
Wright

with a team that is undersized (maybe lower major teams)

Duren
Mills
Garland
Lewis
Zack

As mentioned Peterson is the good swing man that is taller than 6'4, even though I have heard Lewis is a legit 6'3.. It is known, even though it doesn't get mentioned often, that Lewis is a very good rebounder for a guard..

Zack being able to pass over defenders would create situations where back cuts along the baseline would be available which would be a dynamic that he didn't see that much during our run.. Could you imagine a power forward trying to keep Garland or Lewis in front of them 20 feet from the basket having to honor their jumper but now if they peek into the backcourt (which most big men do because they are in an uncomfortable, foreign spot on defense), Zack could just dump it down for an open layup.. It just wouldn't be fair.. We probably could expect a lot of zone which in college is so dangerous especially if Mills shoots like he did in the 2nd half of the year.

Alright everyone have at it.....

[MisterD]

I think you've got it right. Zack in is slower so you'd want the shooter (Lewis) for the non-transition possessions plus you can get away with a bit more funneling on D. With Wright you can run but if the other team slows down, you'd rather a little more length in DJ to help defend big. The interesting thing will be who of Washington and Davis emerges as the 3rd big and, if its Davis, whether he'll be able to keep up with the guards.

[lwc4591]

Answer for 2013/14 is based on who the opponent is and what their strength is. This is shaping up to be the best team since 90 and if Washington or Davis give us more than expected than the sky is the limit. We have depth at every position except D.J.'s so that is why it was great that he decided to return. 2014/15 will be very interesting also but the team will remain very good. G is a great recruiter and he has a better hand which opens up more doors. G only needs a crack as he has proven.

[lasallescreamer]

Lets not drink bad Kool-Aid re the 4 guards. Balance is the key., Balance of O and D. Balance of size and speed. Balance of shooting, bounding, and ball handling.With the depth on this roster, we can achieve that balance and no player will have to go exhausting minutes.he four guards create mismatches for both teams on floor. But lets not forget the Temple game where we could not stop them inside, With Ole Miss, we prevailed, but with more size wed would have won easily. Having to defend huge forwards with small guards puts too much stress on the O, which then has to shoot a very high %. Also, JW has to play as much as possible-at least if he can maintain the high level of play of the late season. Z brings something diff.- a high post passing ability and he gets on the glass.The back up bigs can give quality relief minutes. Thus, for me: Duren, Mills, Lewis, Garland and DJ play the 1,2 and 3 with DJ going at 4 when we go small,-maybe 2 five minute bursts, 1 in each half, to change the tempo.If DJ gets 10 at the 3, it leaves 110 min for the smaller guards, to wit an average of 27+/game for each player. All are fresh for entire year. Too, TD and TG can play a few more min, say 30 and Lewis can play 20.If the backup bigs cannot give 20/game, then DJ will have to play more at 4 and the smaller guards a few more min apiece.. Whichever way, the floor should be better balanced and we will always have 5 good players on floor. I am assuming Stukes is a RS and that Dunn wont play much- but I must say that I love Dunn's enthusiasm and I think he can play without hurting the team, especially on D

[casey44]

I' m expecting zilch from Davis, that way I won't be disappointed. No reason, except his constant weight issues. I would love to be wrong.

[ck]

Lets not drink bad Kool-Aid re the 4 guards. Balance is the key., Balance of O and D. Balance of size and speed. Balance of shooting, bounding, and ball handling.With the depth on this roster, we can achieve that balance and no player will have to go exhausting minutes.he four guards create mismatches for both teams on floor. But lets not forget the Temple game where we could not stop them inside, With Ole Miss, we prevailed, but with more size wed would have won easily. Having to defend huge forwards with small guards puts too much stress on the O, which then has to shoot a very high %. Also, JW has to play as much as possible-at least if he can maintain the high level of play of the late season. Z brings something diff.- a high post passing ability and he gets on the glass.The back up bigs can give quality relief minutes. Thus, for me: Duren, Mills, Lewis, Garland and DJ play the 1,2 and 3 with DJ going at 4 when we go small,-maybe 2 five minute bursts, 1 in each half, to change the tempo.If DJ gets 10 at the 3, it leaves 110 min for the smaller guards, to wit an average of 27+/game for each player. All are fresh for entire year. Too, TD and TG can play a few more min, say 30 and Lewis can play 20.If the backup bigs cannot give 20/game, then DJ will have to play more at 4 and the smaller guards a few more min apiece.. Whichever way, the floor should be better balanced and we will always have 5 good players on floor. I am assuming Stukes is a RS and that Dunn wont play much- but I must say that I love Dunn's enthusiasm and I think he can play without hurting the team, especially on D

Read more: explorertown.proboards.com/thread/822/small-2013##ixzz2Sw4tHdXf

I agree with that. You have to be flexible. And for La salle to dominate the A10 and make runs in the NCAAs has to be able to contend with big talented teams. As the team is setting up there is that possibility next year. There could be a serious run (to Elite 8 or more perhaps, if they jell and most stay healthy and eligible- no reason they can't do so that I know of).

[durenduren]

May 10, 2013 11:58:54 GMT -5 lwc4591 said:

Answer for 2013/14 is based on who the opponent is and what their strength is.

I think this is the best answer. We played four guards all season because we really didn't have much of an option. Through that, we discovered how much it created havoc for other teams, and how much they were forced to adapt to our speed and perimeter shooting. I'd like to see the four guard look return again, maybe for short periods during games to change the pace, spread the floor some. I don't want to undervalue the uniqueness of the 4 guard lineup, it caused teams fits all season.

Obviously, there's logistical issues with running that lineup, and you want to play to your strengths which can easily be our bigs. A lot can change between now and then, but if nothing else we're fortunate to even be able to have this conversation. We have depth on our side, and if one aspect of our game isn't clicking, we have ways where we might be able to compensate for that through personnel changes.

[a10champion15]

I have to agree with durenduren. I love the 4 guard line up but there are shortcomings which we all saw in a number of games this season saint louis and wichita state. We got absolutely destroyed inside. G should run the offense the way he did against both VCU and butler using the 4 guard line up but having zack and wright on the floor to create size and prevent players from gettin inside less often. Wright and Zack really improved this year. Wright was great the second half of the season and I believe and hope Zack improves a little bit more. He a great screener and defensive player. His rebounding ability could be better but he will figure it out im sure. I also wouldnt mind if he shoot a little more. Duren and Garland need to stop taking as many threes and get inside they both have the agility and ball handling skills to do so and leave Mills and Peterson to shooting threes. plus with Khalid and Davis will provide for good backups when Zack, Wright or any of the guards need a break. I am not sure what G is going to do about Washington and Amar yet but will wait and see. I believe the line up will be.

Duren
Mills
Garland
Peterson/Khalid
Wright/Zack

when we seem undersized

Duren
Mills
Garland
Zack
Wright/Davis

[durenduren]

Maybe one of you stat junkies can answer this for me, but I wasn't able to get any decent info. While the sample size is small, I was curious as to how we fared when we rolled two bigs this past season. And less so Rohan, more Zack/Wright which was increasingly more rare.

I get that Wright improved by leaps and bounds by the time we faced K-State, so whatever is out there might not even be relevant. The same applies for Zack's improvement, but I was hoping to see trends pointing toward some strong chemistry with two bigs on the court.

I don't even know if the numbers I'm looking for exist, but any help is appreciated.

[lasallescreamer]

I also think its important to evaluate how effective JW was when on court with Z. It seemed to me that he played better alone- as a center than when on floor with a true center.I hope that a film evaluation proves me wrong bec. I would like to see them on court together for about 20/game. I think it can work on off. bec Z plays high post so well; on D it can work if opponent has a power forward who does not play far from hoop as JW is a banger- not a chaser. Some film analysis will help and I am sure coaches are keenly evaluating this,

[las71]

I think we will see Wright and Zack play much more this year. Tyreek, Sam and Tyrone are not big guards and we will need more size. I suspect that with steve's passing ability we will see more high low with him and Jerrell this year. I think they both start immediately this year. Both are top tier bigs in the A10 and G will want them both on the floor. I think we tend to underrate Zack, he is the best true center we have had in a long time. While I share everyone's optimism for next season, I think we will miss Ramon especially early in the season. While we all hope that Khalid will be a major contributor, is it reasonable to expect him to be the new Ramon. Like the rest of you, I suffered through some of his poor shooting games but he was clearly our team leader, made huge plays throughout the season and created matchup problems throughout the season. We just don't get players like him too often.I think the key to this season just may be Jerrell and Steve.

[explorerman]

May 12, 2013 7:50:37 GMT -5 las71 said:

I think we will see Wright and Zack play much more this year. Tyreek, Sam and Tyrone are not big guards and we will need more size. I suspect that with steve's passing ability we will see more high low with him and Jerrell this year. I think they both start immediately this year. Both are top tier bigs in the A10 and G will want them both on the floor. I think we tend to underrate Zack, he is the best true center we have had in a long time. While I share everyone's optimism for next season, I think we will miss Ramon especially early in the season. While we all hope that Khalid will be a major contributor, is it reasonable to expect him to be the new Ramon. Like the rest of you, I suffered through some of his poor shooting games but he was clearly our team leader, made huge plays throughout the season and created matchup problems throughout the season. We just don't get players like him too often.I think the key to this season just may be Jerrell and Steve.

Agreed that I think most people are downplaying Galloway's loss with next year's team... I do not think anyone is expecting Lewis to be Galloway because that isn't happening.. He is no where near the scorer or offensive player that Galloway is. I do worry about next year's offense as we relied on Galloway to create points late in the shot clock.

[casey44]

Garland will be the go to guy, getting more minutes than last year. I think DJ will be challenged by Lewis and we will be attacking the rim a whole lot more. We have to replace 18 pts and Galloway's defense and rebounding. Everyone is a year older and used to playing with each other, but talk of elite eight is pure dreaming at this point. I just want a bid and see what happens. No doubt we have a good team, but the schedule is tougher than it looks imo. Chemistry is the key and having been burnt once, there will be a short leash on strictly individual play. Washington could also be a factor later on. Perimeter suffers, but maybe an even better defense overall.

[SICguy84]

May 12, 2013 14:01:32 GMT -5 casey44 said:

We have to replace 18 pts and Galloway's defense and rebounding.

This!!!

Also Casey44, nice job holding up La Salle's end over on the Hawk Droppings board. Those folks are tools.

[casey44]

In fairness, it's the usual suspects over there, and that's why guys like Guster bust them so badly on the A-10 bd. My niece was a recruiter for Pepsi and wound up being the human resources high mucky muck for the entire company who also negotiated on behalf of the company and unions. She told me that La Salle was one of the most enjoyable and productive places that she visited, mainly because the students were so grounded. You just don't see us trashing people that often. It must be in the water. I used to rent a place above a grocery store down by Chew. Never had a problem with the locals. I don't get back that often, except for an occasional game, but it really fries my ass to see people trash the whole community because the surrounding area is mostly black. Maybe it's changed. There was never that much animosity or crime way back when.

[bernards]

This team should be more versatile. Can play both big and small. Using mismatches to our advantage.

[theneumann64]

Anyone have a link for this crap on the St. Joe's message board you guys are referencing?

[cpico]

May 12, 2013 15:09:41 GMT -5 SICguy84 said:

May 12, 2013 14:01:32 GMT -5 casey44 said:

We have to replace 18 pts and Galloway's defense and rebounding.

This!!!

Also Casey44, nice job holding up La Salle's end over on the Hawk Droppings board. Those folks are tools.

I was shocked when we made our NCAA tourney run they had some positive posts on the Hawk forum, but there are some posters on that board who just can not say anything positive about La Salle. Whether if it's that we had a better basketball team than them this past season and should again next year, or the fact our baseball team is playing really well in the A-10 and beat them 2 out of 3 this season (but the umpiring was horrible - you just have to laugh). And you have to laugh when they take swipes at our campus.

Some of their posters are just really tough to read because they are not rooting their posts in reality. When you read some of their posts you would think St . Joe's should be on Duke's level basketball wise and are academically on the level of Penn. You just have to shake your head.

[a10champion15]

Guys are a bunch of bone heads over there at SJU board. Obviously some dont care why should they not there school not their problems or should I say success. It is funny cause they have a real nice fieldhouse years of success and cant sell out any games. La salle on the other hand goes to the NIT and this year a few games were packed this year at the Hayman Butler and Umass game as examples. Next year people are going to be real excited about the team and why shouldnt they be.

Sorry about that rant but

On the Galloway subject I agree and said it before his lose will hurt the team significantly but I have hope. Giannnini knows how to restructure the lines and create a new dynamic. Zack and Wright will be key but so will our guards. If you remember the Butler game Galloway was pretty much terrible but that was all forgotten once he made the game winning basket. No one talks about Duren or Zack excellent performance during that game. I never seen Zack play that well before and Duren lead the offense effectively. We can make the NCAA's but a elite 8 might be a stretch but when the march madness comes around anything can happen. G knows and is working on what he can do both defensively and on offense.

[SICguy84]

May 12, 2013 16:20:06 GMT -5 theneumann64 said:

Anyone have a link for this crap on the St. Joe's message board you guys are referencing?

hawkhoopclub.proboards.com/thread/12987/recruiting-upgrade?page=2

Says one poster....

" LaSalle as a university is in trouble. It is landlocked, an awful looking campus, aging infrastructure and poor academic reputation. The coaching job by G is quite impressive given all the roadblocks and hurdles. Phil less so."


“landlocked”...I was unaware that SJU of Pa has unfettered access to the Atlantic Ocean from their campus?

[durenduren]

I read the Hawks forum regularly, and have watched everything Casey has said unfold.

It comes down to this: In the eye's of some of the Hawks fans, we'll always be the little brother from Olney. We're going to be second to them, no matter what they say. The Jameer run and a #1 National Ranking created a huge culture change, including expectations that put them past any other school, including La Salle. Hell, if that was us, I'm sure we'd act the same way to certain extent.

I'm not saying those expectations are still realistic, or their view of La Salle is accurate. The mighty has definitely fallen. But plain and simple, they know we're better right now. And not by a small jump, but alot right now. They squeaked into the NIT, and we went Sweet 16. It's called jealousy - and we all know what it feels like to be looking up at a rival Philadelphia school go dancing. It hurts, and you should be pissed off.

When St Joe's was playing good ball, with Temple and 'Nova... We said the same thing: "Why can't we do that?" And now, ironically, teams are looking at our approach and saying "Why can't we do the simple stuff La Salle is doing that's making them successful?" And they're right - Hawks fans can't wrap their head around why Martelli and Company are so inept at recruiting in the Philadelphia area, given its rich depth . They look at us and realize half our roster is Philadelphia-based, we know how to capitalize on transfers coming home to Philly. Meanwhile, Martelli is pulling from Ohio, Indiana, Senegal and Germany when there's gold right in his backyard. I'd be upset too.

The campus bashing... For once, they can't shit talk the basketball team so they're going to swing at anything they can. Don't think much of it. St Joe's is a city school by zip code only, where La Salle actually is. There's going to be inherent differences, plain and simple.

Edit: On that note - you should be proud where you came from, and I'd expect the same from them. That's what makes this fun.

Just don't kick them when they're down. We were there before, and for a LONG time. Remember, we've got fans that live in the looney-verse too. But again, majority of them are nice people, passionate about a city and its basketball tradition, just like us.

[ltrain38]

I don't get the "poor academics line." Our ranking from U.S. News fell because of some financial data not reported, but has always been pretty close to theirs in the past. And comprehensive rankings of universities are highly subjective anyway. I love our campus (ok, not Hayman or the library, but the rest of it). I think when they put us down for that, they (or just one guy, I haven't read the thread) are referring to it being on Olney Ave. I'd be surprised if most of their fanbase is really so biased as to go in for these kinds of arguments. They just don't like watching us make a run in what was supposed to be their year.

[a10champion15]

Yea I cant remember what there pre season ranking was but I know it was suppose to be a great year for them. Look how that turned out. I agree durenduren there run years ago was awesome. It actually too bad cause if they had great recruiting you know they be a top contender every year due to that great year. All in all there campus is much nicer than ours i'm sorry to say that but that because they have a few huge endowments something La Salle does a few poor job at.

[SICguy84]

May 12, 2013 19:28:26 GMT -5 a10champion15 said:

All in all there campus is much nicer than ours i'm sorry to say that but that because they have a few huge endowments something La Salle does a few poor job at.

When people from Hawk Droppings put down the campus it has more to do with the Olney/Logan neighborhood than the actual La Salle campus. I would contend that their campus is on par with ours. If you look at university owned buildings on both campuses things are pretty much equal. The Charles Wilson Peale House and Belfield Estate provide a woodsy feel once you get away from Olney Avenue, which is valuable in an urban environment. But, I guess the fact that they have a fast food joint across the street from their campus is a point of pride. Hell, College Hall was built by the same gentleman, McShain, that built the large tower on SJU of Pa’s campus. As for being landlocked, the school acquired Germantown Hospital and could/will acquire more parcels if they were to make purchases.

The comments about academics are complete and utter bullshit.

I know the majority of Hawk people are good Catholic folks but after numerous incidents at the Palestra, a small but vocal minority have soured me. I’ve seen Hawks fans go from playing down any rivalry with La Salle, calling it at best a historical rivalry…to now putting down the school and the campus because the basketball at La Salle University is pretty damn good. I guess we are making progress. As always… “The Hawk is Dead.”

[durenduren]

May 12, 2013 19:13:47 GMT -5 ltrain38 said:

I don't get the "poor academics line."

Look at admission acceptance rates. La Salle has been lower for a period now. That's typically a strong barometer, so mute point on their part.

[ltrain38]

May 12, 2013 21:03:59 GMT -5 durenduren said:

May 12, 2013 19:13:47 GMT -5 ltrain38 said:

I don't get the "poor academics line."

Look at admission acceptance rates. La Salle has been lower for a period now. That's typically a strong barometer, so mute point on their part.

Wow. I just did look that up. The numbers are worse than when I applied (admittedly, to both schools). That is telling though.

[SICguy84]

I would hope that the Sweet 16 run would increase freshman applicants and thus force admissions to be more selective.

[a10champion15]

I have to disagree. i been to their campus multiple times. Their fieldhouse, business school, library, most dorms and cafeteria is nicer. I would love to say La Salle facilities are on par with Saint Joe's but there not. They rebuilt or renovated all of these buildings in the past 10 years. La Salle needs to do the same. They need to renovate the gola, college hall, olney and wister soon.

[ltrain38]

They need to demolish Olney Hall.

[durenduren]

May 12, 2013 21:26:37 GMT -5 ltrain38 said:

May 12, 2013 21:03:59 GMT -5 durenduren said:

Look at admission acceptance rates. La Salle has been lower for a period now. That's typically a strong barometer, so mute point on their part.

Wow. I just did look that up. The numbers are worse than when I applied (admittedly, to both schools). That is telling though.

Yeah, neither are exactly stellar. But if they really want to get into a dick measuring contest, the numbers don't lie. The city aspect of La Salle is one of it's strong points though, and I wouldn't expect the the Mainliners to agree. But they have virtually no access to downtown like we do. Great gift of the Olney neighborhood, despite its flaws. Double edged sword for both schools.

May 12, 2013 21:40:30 GMT -5 SICguy84 said:

I would hope that the Sweet 16 run would increase freshman applicants and thus force admissions to be more selective.

Short term, projections for a run like we had will have some impact, but you'd need some consecutive years of success (ie. Butler's back-to-back Final Fours) or you need to come out of absolutely nowhere and go ham (ie. George Mason 2005-2006). For example, Florida Gulf Coast will see an increase. The impact we'll see won't be nearly as large because we we're overshadowed by FGCU. I'm guess a couple percentage points for this year. See Doug Flutie Effect.