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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 18:45:20 GMT -5
I don't think Davidson is a bad pick for the league, but I'd be curious to see the blueprint for further expansion. Assuming we lose Dayton and SLU to the Big East, we're left with an entirely East Coast conference of twelve teams. Do we stay at twelve and bring back a two-division format, sending one of the Philly teams or Duquesne into the objectively stronger south? Or add two more out of Siena, College of Charleston, Iona - am I missing anyone? - and make it a 14-team league? Fairfield is under consideration but Iona has the edge over them I don't know who your source is, but I can say with absolute certainty that Iona has ZERO shot at getting an A10 invite and Fairfield's chances are only slightly better.
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Post by durenduren on May 7, 2013 18:56:45 GMT -5
I think 16 teams potentially waters down the product too much. If the talk of 14 teams as a the magic number are correct, I'm content. The Davidson addition replaces the Charlotte market well, and should make for a tough place to play. Think this will be a big move for Davidson overall, sparking some growth. But McKillop is getting up there in years, and he's been there forever. Hopefully this keeps him around longer.
Not sure of the Siena fascination though. I get that there aren't a ton of teams floating around, but I feel like all they bring to the A-10, potentially, is an arena that we're all fascinated with, with a good fan base. And I get the Albany market angle. But basketball wise, they've had losing seasons 6 out of the last 10 seasons. Guess it's not fair to judge a team by just one coach though, but that hire didn't help. Just don't want to overlook the most important aspect - basketball.
That said, I rather have Siena over CoC or the other rumored southern teams. Would really increase travel for us, and I'd prefer adding another northern team to keep balance. Plus, it'd keep Fordham/URI/UMass happier.
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Post by ltrain38 on May 7, 2013 19:09:35 GMT -5
I don't have a source. I'm just throwing ideas out there. Really don't like the idea of taking Fairfield, except that I live about 20 miles from there.
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Post by explorerman on May 7, 2013 19:15:32 GMT -5
Fairfield is under consideration but Iona has the edge over them I don't know who your source is, but I can say with absolute certainty that Iona has ZERO shot at getting an A10 invite and Fairfield's chances are only slightly better. Hahaha... You can say that with absolute certainty? What an arrogant toolbag... I guess we are playing who has the biggest dick game... I won't even bother..
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Post by durenduren on May 7, 2013 19:44:03 GMT -5
I don't know who your source is, but I can say with absolute certainty that Iona has ZERO shot at getting an A10 invite and Fairfield's chances are only slightly better. Hahaha... You can say that with absolute certainty? I can say with absolute certainty that La Salle is moving to the NBA. Iona has ZERO shot at getting an NBA invite.
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Post by a10champion15 on May 7, 2013 20:07:32 GMT -5
Alright...lets settle down. First there is no certainty yet that saint louis and dayton are leaving the A10. The big east hasnt made a decision just yet. They like 10 teams and 12 would be considered but there are other teams in the mix besides dayton and saint louis. the a10 isn't going to make any decision till they know. Why rush it and get worked up about it? Look forward to next year cause the A10 will be solid even without Butler and Xavier. You never know what is going to happen. La salle could be in the mix if they have another great year no one knows until the time comes.
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Post by ltrain38 on May 7, 2013 20:13:20 GMT -5
Alright...lets settle down. First there is no certainty yet that saint louis and dayton are leaving the A10. The big east hasnt made a decision just yet. They like 10 teams and 12 would be considered but there are other teams in the mix besides dayton and saint louis. the a10 isn't going to make any decision till they know. Why rush it and get worked up about it? Look forward to next year cause the A10 will be solid even without Butler and Xavier. You never know what is going to happen. La salle could be in the mix if they have another great year no one knows until the time comes. We would need a new arena and 'Nova to suddenly quit the league for that to ever happen.
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Post by durenduren on May 7, 2013 20:58:51 GMT -5
The big east hasnt made a decision just yet... TLa salle could be in the mix if they have another great year no one knows until the time comes.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 21:06:58 GMT -5
I don't know who your source is, but I can say with absolute certainty that Iona has ZERO shot at getting an A10 invite and Fairfield's chances are only slightly better. Hahaha... You can say that with absolute certainty? What an arrogant toolbag... I guess we are playing who has the biggest dick game... I won't even bother.. You calling anyone an arrogant toolbag is the funniest thing I've read on here ever. Pot meet kettle. Funny how it's okay for you to come on here and say that Iona is under consideration for an invite to the A10 but because I've been told something different and refute that, that's an issue for you. You do realize that in all of the conference realignment talk, not one of the national college basketball analysts like Rothstein, Goodman, Borzello, Katz, etc, etc, has ever mentioned that possibility. Not even Lenn Robbins of the NY Post has come up with that one, and that guy justs makes stuff up, throws it against the wall, and hopes it sticks. You are the only one who has said Iona is a possibility. And you win the biggest dick game. Not even close.
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Post by durenduren on May 7, 2013 21:18:28 GMT -5
Can someone give me an impartial rundown of pro's and con's for Fairfield and Iona. Spare me the super top secret sources and stuff. I don't have a ton of insight regarding either. Don't see either being more than pretty big long shots from what I do know.
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Post by ltrain38 on May 7, 2013 21:33:08 GMT -5
I don't know what to think of Fairfield. They play in Webster Bank Arena in Bridgeport - off campus, almost 10k seats, which I'm sure they can't fill, but it's a nice facility. Sydney Johnson is a coach who did a good job at Princeton, with a program that was really down before he got there. And as far as I know, they make a pretty sizable investment in the program. The negatives are that they've been to the NCAA tournament three times in their entire history and never come close to winning a game in it, aren't consistently one of the best teams in the MAAC and don't offer much of a market (there are a number of 100,000+ population cities in S. Connecticut, but Bridgeport/Fairfield falls between major markets and almost everyone in the state supports UConn only, unless they went to one of the other schools).
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Post by ltrain38 on May 7, 2013 21:37:48 GMT -5
Iona has been a good team the last few years, with one at-large bid and one auto bid. But it's a small school that would remove the "worst arena in the A-10" burden from off of our shoulders. New Rochelle is only 15 miles from New York, but again, not sure what they give us in terms of market share, since that city generally doesn't support college sports, except in years when St. John's is ranked. Could make for some good rivalries, especially if we take on Siena, but the Saints and Fordham would have to improve to make that credible. Other than recent level of play, I think they have less to offer than the others. Siena is the best option on the table if they can start winning games again.
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Post by durenduren on May 7, 2013 22:09:50 GMT -5
ltrain, thanks guy. good stuff.
Good point about UConn. I guess I initially thought Fairfield could capture a better share of the market in that area. I'm with you on the Siena train though. I think I'm being a little hyper-critical of the teams we could be potentially taking on after landing Butler and VCU last year. Guess we were all spoiled a bit.
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Post by explorerman on May 7, 2013 22:24:03 GMT -5
Hahaha... You can say that with absolute certainty? What an arrogant toolbag... I guess we are playing who has the biggest dick game... I won't even bother.. You calling anyone an arrogant toolbag is the funniest thing I've read on here ever. Pot meet kettle. Funny how it's okay for you to come on here and say that Iona is under consideration for an invite to the A10 but because I've been told something different and refute that, that's an issue for you. You do realize that in all of the conference realignment talk, not one of the national college basketball analysts like Rothstein, Goodman, Borzello, Katz, etc, etc, has ever mentioned that possibility. Not even Lenn Robbins of the NY Post has come up with that one, and that guy justs makes stuff up, throws it against the wall, and hopes it sticks. You are the only one who has said Iona is a possibility. And you win the biggest dick game. Not even close. It is ok for me to say Iona is under consideration because they are in consideration. The formula the A-10 uses to value expansion schools possibilities favor Iona. They do that isn't a lie. I am sorry if that makes you upset or the larger fact that maybe my source is higher on the food chain than yours. It is the truth but when you come on here and call me a liar, I will come back at you and put you in your place. So don't get offended when I come back at you. And come back and say, "I never said you were a liar" because you come on here and arrogantly say "I don't know who your sources are, but I can say with certainly that Iona have ZERO percent chance" I have been on record that Siena and GMU were going to be the first schools in, the only exception would be if Davidson came off their COC inclusion with them. Siena will absolutely be in eventually. Iona is in there with Fairfield and COC after Siena. I am just helping provide information to the people who care about the program but if I am going to get mocked for it and then have someone acted offended when I come back at them. I just do not need it.
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Post by ltrain38 on May 7, 2013 22:24:30 GMT -5
Like I said before, I have no idea what's actually being considered. But it's interesting to look at teams and see how they would fit. There are solid programs out there, to be sure, but there won't be another Butler or VCU coming in anytime soon. Concerning Fairfield, I've lived in Connecticut for about two years now and my impression is that professional sports and UConn basketball are all that really register. UConn women's basketball is more popular and better covered than other men's teams up here by a wide margin.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 23:54:16 GMT -5
You calling anyone an arrogant toolbag is the funniest thing I've read on here ever. Pot meet kettle. Funny how it's okay for you to come on here and say that Iona is under consideration for an invite to the A10 but because I've been told something different and refute that, that's an issue for you. You do realize that in all of the conference realignment talk, not one of the national college basketball analysts like Rothstein, Goodman, Borzello, Katz, etc, etc, has ever mentioned that possibility. Not even Lenn Robbins of the NY Post has come up with that one, and that guy justs makes stuff up, throws it against the wall, and hopes it sticks. You are the only one who has said Iona is a possibility. And you win the biggest dick game. Not even close. It is ok for me to say Iona is under consideration because they are in consideration. The formula the A-10 uses to value expansion schools possibilities favor Iona. They do that isn't a lie. I am sorry if that makes you upset or the larger fact that maybe my source is higher on the food chain than yours. It is the truth but when you come on here and call me a liar, I will come back at you and put you in your place. So don't get offended when I come back at you. And come back and say, "I never said you were a liar" because you come on here and arrogantly say "I don't know who your sources are, but I can say with certainly that Iona have ZERO percent chance" I have been on record that Siena and GMU were going to be the first schools in, the only exception would be if Davidson came off their COC inclusion with them. Siena will absolutely be in eventually. Iona is in there with Fairfield and COC after Siena. I am just helping provide information to the people who care about the program but if I am going to get mocked for it and then have someone acted offended when I come back at them. I just do not need it. All I know is what I was told, and that is Iona is not under consideration. Maybe your source is higher on that food chain you talk about, but I can't remember the person who gave me the Iona info ever telling me one piece of bad information. And I'm not upset. You're the one who felt the need to call me an arrogant toolbag while "putting me in my place". You really wrote that? Too funny. And where did I say you were a liar? I don't doubt you got your information from your "source". That's who I am questioning. Your source. I really don't follow your predictions, so good for you that you predicted GMU and Siena or Davidson would be the first schools invited when the A10 decided to expand again. That was really going out on a limb, as every college basketball writer who covers the A10 has written something about those possibilities for months. I have no doubt that Siena is under consideration if the A10 decides to go to 14 teams again. But based on what I've been told by my apparently lower food chain "source", Iona is not in the mix, and I'm sorry if that upsets you. He could be wrong but he usually isn't. The A10 already has NYC covered with Fordham. If they're looking for a partner for Fordham, it will be Siena. Iona has a worse facility than every school in the A10, a smaller fan base than even La Salle, Fordham, and GW, and a roster full of academic question marks. McGlade will be shooting higher than that. And I'm confused about COC. You say that the A10 extended the invite to Davidson only after they dropped their demand that COC also be included. If that's the case, then why is COC supposedly still under consideration? Going forward, I promise not to question anything you post, because I don't need it either.
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mts
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Post by mts on May 8, 2013 0:07:57 GMT -5
I think CoC was behind Siena so if Davidson insisted they go in the A10 together as a condition then Siena would have gone in before Davidson but once Davidson dropped that request they went ahead of Siena. If Explorerman is correct...and I sure hope he is, Siena is the next team in the A10 potentially this summer once St Louis and Dayton go to the Big East and would start play in 2014/2015 or Siena might start in 2015/2016 to reduce their MAAC exit cost depending when the A10 wants us.
Sounds to be next up in order is Siena, CoC, Iona and Fairfield. Is that accurate?
For recruiting purposes I hope the A10 invites Siena this summer sometime. Realistic chance?
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Post by percydovetonsils on May 8, 2013 5:05:50 GMT -5
It is ok for me to say Iona is under consideration because they are in consideration. The formula the A-10 uses to value expansion schools possibilities favor Iona. They do that isn't a lie. I am sorry if that makes you upset or the larger fact that maybe my source is higher on the food chain than yours. It is the truth but when you come on here and call me a liar, I will come back at you and put you in your place. So don't get offended when I come back at you. And come back and say, "I never said you were a liar" because you come on here and arrogantly say "I don't know who your sources are, but I can say with certainly that Iona have ZERO percent chance" I have been on record that Siena and GMU were going to be the first schools in, the only exception would be if Davidson came off their COC inclusion with them. Siena will absolutely be in eventually. Iona is in there with Fairfield and COC after Siena. I am just helping provide information to the people who care about the program but if I am going to get mocked for it and then have someone acted offended when I come back at them. I just do not need it. All I know is what I was told, and that is Iona is not under consideration. Maybe your source is higher on that food chain you talk about, but I can't remember the person who gave me the Iona info ever telling me one piece of bad information. And I'm not upset. You're the one who felt the need to call me an arrogant toolbag while "putting me in my place". You really wrote that? Too funny. And where did I say you were a liar? I don't doubt you got your information from your "source". That's who I am questioning. Your source. I really don't follow your predictions, so good for you that you predicted GMU and Siena or Davidson would be the first schools invited when the A10 decided to expand again. That was really going out on a limb, as every college basketball writer who covers the A10 has written something about those possibilities for months. I have no doubt that Siena is under consideration if the A10 decides to go to 14 teams again. But based on what I've been told by my apparently lower food chain "source", Iona is not in the mix, and I'm sorry if that upsets you. He could be wrong but he usually isn't. The A10 already has NYC covered with Fordham. If they're looking for a partner for Fordham, it will be Siena. Iona has a worse facility than every school in the A10, a smaller fan base than even La Salle, Fordham, and GW, and a roster full of academic question marks. McGlade will be shooting higher than that. And I'm confused about COC. You say that the A10 extended the invite to Davidson only after they dropped their demand that COC also be included. If that's the case, then why is COC supposedly still under consideration? Going forward, I promise not to question anything you post, because I don't need it either. Guys Relax You are both right. Iona was discussed and was dropped out of the conversation.
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Post by coqui900 on May 8, 2013 8:37:10 GMT -5
Rothstein tweeted a "Don't forget about Stony Brook" thing today. Not sure how connected he is in terms of conference alignment issues but just throwing that out there. Stony Brook's quite the ambitious athletic department. Not just that, their baseball team would automatically be the best in the A-10.
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Post by 23won on May 8, 2013 9:34:19 GMT -5
Based on the quotes from the recent announcement, the math doesn't make sense
"McGlade said the A-10 will play a 16-game schedule with 13 teams next season and then the hope is to play 18 games as a 14-team league in 2014-15." If you have 14 schools, it seems odd to play 18 games, since the logical setup would be to have 2 divisions and play in-division opponents twice (12 games) and other division opponents once for 19 total. 12 teams makes for cleaner scheduling in a two division format, with 10 in-division games and 6 non-division games. It's hard to follow B McG's math here. "The A-10 will explore various scheduling models but McGlade said there are natural rivals ... But the A-10 could also look to form triangle combinations of scheduling, with Davidson figuring in with the two schools in Richmond or the D.C.-area while Fordham could be paired with UMass-URI." Why would you have a triangle setup unless you had 12 or 15 teams? With 15, why not have groupings of five? Don't get the math here either.
Assuming the current 14 lineup continues, I could see in one Division St Lou, Dayton, SJU, Bona, Mass, URI and Duq. The other division could have VCU, LSU, Davidson, UR, Mason, GW and Fordham.
If you assume St Lou and UD bolt for the BE, you could have 4 triangles of Davidson, UR, Fordham; VCU, Mason, GW; LSU, SJU, Duq; and Bona, Mass, URI.
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Post by 23won on May 8, 2013 9:50:16 GMT -5
If you assume 15 teams(adding Siena), you could get 18 games out of 3 divisions of 5 teams. The 5 south teams are logical (UR, VCU, Davidson, GW, Mason). The others are a tougher mix, but you could do St Lou, UD, Duq, St Joe, Fordham in one and La Salle, Siena, U Mass, Bona and URI in the other.
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mts
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Post by mts on May 8, 2013 13:04:02 GMT -5
What I think (hope) the A10 eventually settles in with
North:
Siena St. Bonnie UMass URI Fordham Duquense St. Joe's/LaSalle
South:
VCU Richmond Davidson George Mason George Washington Charleston St. Joe's/LaSalle
St. Joe's/LaSalle break up to balance the divisions. St. Louis and Dayton in the Big East. Of course Richmond could sub for Dayton.
Conference schedule would be 18 games - you play home and home with everyone in your division but one team only once (rotated) and everyone once in the other division (rotate year to year who's home and away)
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Post by Shout out to my Cousin Bern on May 8, 2013 13:22:00 GMT -5
What I think (hope) the A10 eventually settles in with North: Siena St. Bonnie UMass URI Fordham Duquense St. Joe's/LaSalle South: VCU Richmond Davidson George Mason George Washington Charleston St. Joe's/LaSalle St. Joe's/LaSalle break up to balance the divisions. St. Louis and Dayton in the Big East. Of course Richmond could sub for Dayton. Conference schedule would be 18 games - you play home and home with everyone in your division but one team only once (rotated) and everyone once in the other division (rotate year to year who's home and away) Why would you hope for this? This isn't much of a conference. This would be a shell of the conference we had last year.
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Post by explorer88 on May 8, 2013 13:25:09 GMT -5
What I think (hope) the A10 eventually settles in with North: Siena St. Bonnie UMass URI Fordham Duquense St. Joe's/LaSalle South: VCU Richmond Davidson George Mason George Washington Charleston St. Joe's/LaSalle St. Joe's/LaSalle break up to balance the divisions. St. Louis and Dayton in the Big East. Of course Richmond could sub for Dayton. Conference schedule would be 18 games - you play home and home with everyone in your division but one team only once (rotated) and everyone once in the other division (rotate year to year who's home and away) Why would you hope for this? This isn't much of a conference. This would be a shell of the conference we had last year. That is the best we are going to do.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 14:31:43 GMT -5
I don't understand the A10's desire to go to 14 teams unless it is only to protect itself from even more defections after St Louis and either Dayton or Richmond go to the new Big East in the next year or two. Maybe McGlade knows something and is expecting the NBE to try and grab two more A10 teams further down the road. It's not like the A10 is going to start their own TV network that will rake in huge dollars. The $300-$400k a piece that league members get now will only be diluted further by having 14 teams in the league.
Once SLU and Dayton/Richmond leave, keep it as a 2 division, 12 team league that plays 16 league games. That leaves each team the ability to schedule anywhere between 13-15 OOC games. Another thought is that maybe they want to go to a 14 team 18 league game schedule because of how hard it is to put OOC schedules together. I've read countless articles where coaches say that may be the hardest part of their jobs.
East UMass URI Fordham St. Joe's La Salle George Washington
West St Bonaventure Duquesne Davidson VCU Richmond George Mason
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Post by 23won on May 8, 2013 14:49:53 GMT -5
I agree that 12 is far better. I'd prefer this for geographical and schedule strength reasons:
East
URI Fordham St. Joe's La Salle VCU Richmond
West St Bonaventure Duquesne Davidson UMass George Mason George Washington
I'd like to go home and home with Joe's, VCU and Richmond. We'd be in the slightly tougher division, but I'd prefer that
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Post by coqui900 on May 8, 2013 15:54:35 GMT -5
I think they need to go more than less. Conference realignment might not have stopped yet. UMass could bolt to whatever that league is with Temple and UConn at any given moment once they get football. Does Duquesne want to be the far western edge of the league now in league they traditionally have struggled in when they could go into the now Butler-less Horizon League and dominate? (Not that's been rumored, but anything can happen. Loyola is in the MVC now.)
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Post by Shout out to my Cousin Bern on May 8, 2013 16:14:24 GMT -5
Why would you hope for this? This isn't much of a conference. This would be a shell of the conference we had last year. That is the best we are going to do. I don't know that that is necessarily true. I don't think adding a school like Charleston is ideal. I would rather NOT add then just add for the sake of adding. I don't have a better scenario because I don't generally care for realignment scenarios. I'm just saying for the sake of the A10 and La Salle maintaining some significance we shouldn't hope to add schools just for #'s sake. I'd rather the additions be driven by skill level like the recent (albeit brief) Butler addition.
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Post by a10champion15 on May 8, 2013 16:14:46 GMT -5
I think we all appreciate the work. Really interesting analysis. I just dont see why the a10 would organize the conference that way excepted for scheduling reasons. Many of the bigger programs like VCU and UMass would never go for that. Plus, we still have to see what happens to Saint Louis and Dayton. the big east may decide to stay at 10 they have not made a decision to expand it to 12 they only said they consider it.
Since Durenduren had to be a douche. For your information i was not actually serious about La salle going to the Big east. My point was we just wont know what is going to happen between the American Athletic, the new big east and the A10 until next year this time.
Jon R. from CBS tweeted today about Stony Brook and nothing about Siena. That was the first time I heard stony brooks name in reference to the a10.
My hope would be we lose only one of the two either Saint Louis or Dayton most likely Saint louis. Richmond has also been in the Big East mix. The conference should and could stay at around 14 teams. We picked up Davidson and than pick up Stony Brook and Siena. Lose both Saint Louis and Dayton.
The New A10 come 2015-2016 season could be URI Fordham St. Joe's La Salle VCU Richmond St Bonaventure Duquesne Davidson Stony Brook Siena UMass George Mason George Washington
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Post by durenduren on May 8, 2013 18:39:54 GMT -5
Since Durenduren had to be a douche. For your information i was not actually serious about La salle going to the Big east. My point was we just wont know what is going to happen between the American Athletic, the new big east and the A10 until next year this time. Just taking things for face value. No douching here. Didn't mean to offend. The Stony Brook angle is interesting. Admittedly all speculation, but it could make sense for inclusion in a few seasons down the road. They've got a weird arraignment when they play a gross majority of their games in a 1,600 seat gymnasium after announcing they were renovating their 4k seat arena back in 2010. Apparently that renovation got delayed until recent, allowing them to use that arena for their bigger games. They don't have the success that Siena, GMU, and Davidson have seen, but look to be up and coming. The made the NIT 3 out of the last 4 seasons, bouncing UMass last year in the first round. Don't know if there's anything to it, but interesting nonetheless.
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