OT: Jesse Morgan, SG, for UMASS kicked out of school

[explorerman]

www.basketballforum.com/atlantic-10-conference/494402-umass-jesse-morgan-forced-withdraw-university-disciplinary-reasons.html

[sawdoctors]

Big blow to Umass......

[vasalos]

With preseason bracketology, the A10 WILL get 3 teams in. Exit UMASS, enter La Salle.

[ltrain38]

Not sure why they should have been picked ahead of us anyway. Didn't get all the UMass love this year either. They have some players, sure, but they haven't won anything.

[MisterD]

Can't teach height.

[Deleted]

Winners at Gola and winners at Brooklyn in 2013, the umass team lived up to their hype, albeit marginally. They get us at amherst next year which is always a hard place to win. Basically had most talent returning though not as much now

[explorer88]

Morgan is taking classes at Temple trying to get eligible according to OwlScoop.com.

[vasalos]

Would be a huge pick up for Temple if they want to survive in the AAC this year.

[durenduren]

Could be huge for Temple. Philly.com picked this story up, but still citing Owls Scoop. But it doesn't mean I agree that he should be eligible to play this season. He was tossed out by his own actions and decisions for violating standards that were obviously agreed upon, and I think he should be subject to standard transfer policy. If you're man enough to make a decision that forces a school to kick you out, you should be held accountable.

Guess that Xavier-Maryland Dez Wells sexual assault fiasco set a bad precedence though, Morgan will be ruled eligible.

[weston2]

Count me curious about this one - how do you orchestrate your exit and get potentially eligible immediately, and what does the NCAA clearinghouse got to do with this. It seems like the ncaa/colleges make up these rules as they go along. You either have all sit out for the transfer year or everybody is a free agent and can transfer freely with no sit out. Why some can and some can't is absurd. Is there potentially a class action suit in the winds due to it shortchanges an ability to earn a living by virtue of a sit out year? Can we get any more bizzare?

[durenduren]

May 24, 2013 21:35:44 GMT -5 weston2 said:

Is there potentially a class action suit in the winds due to it shortchanges an ability to earn a living by virtue of a sit out year?

Agreed on all counts, but the class action suit could never grow legs. Playing collegiate sports is a privilege, not a right. If you didn't want to sit out a year, you shouldn't get thrown out of school. You agree to a set of standards and university codes (especially when you sign up for a free education), and if you violate those shame on you. The NCAA isn't about making a living during college, it's about getting an education so you can get a job after college. You want to delay your collegiate departure? That's on you.

The NCAA is the wild, wild west. Inconsistent and largely operating under a shrouded veil that the even the most educated fan can be boggled by at times.

3rd High School, 3rd College (Signed with Seton Hall, Goes to UMass where he academically ineligible, now Temple).

[weston2]

May 24, 2013 21:56:41 GMT -5 durenduren said:

May 24, 2013 21:35:44 GMT -5 weston2 said:

Is there potentially a class action suit in the winds due to it shortchanges an ability to earn a living by virtue of a sit out year?

Agreed on all counts, but the class action suit could never grow legs. Playing collegiate sports is a privilege, not a right. If you didn't want to sit out a year, you shouldn't get thrown out of school. You agree to a set of standards and university codes (especially when you sign up for a free education), and if you violate those shame on you. The NCAA isn't about making a living during college, it's about getting an education so you can get a job after college. You want to delay your collegiate departure? That's on you.

The NCAA is the wild, wild west. Inconsistent and largely operating under a shrouded veil that the even the most educated fan can be boggled by at times.

3rd High School, 3rd College (Signed with Seton Hall, Goes to UMass where he academically ineligible, now Temple).

I agree with you 100%, I wouldn't pay these kids a cent beyond the scholarship. Most don't deserve a sniff beyond being able to play a sport, they should kiss the ground they are getting that much. Suck it up and join the rest of the college students - take out a loan. Join the real world, and mortgage that first contract. Others don't have a contract in their after college experience, maybe they can find a job. Stop making these kids (athletes) into a super class.
The transfer issue is taking on bizarre twists & turns over the last several years.

[durenduren]

This Morgan situation is a prime example of what's wrong with the NCAA men's basketball transfer scene. The NCAA, by over-zealously approving waivers, has created a culture that says if things aren't going your way, even if by your own careless, stupid, or drunken decisions, it's okay to run away from it. There's little accountability - it's just teaching bad life skills.

[MisterD]

Wesson, you're looking at things completely backwards, like a full 180 degrees backwards, if you think a regular no-elite-skill student like you contributes more to a school than a scholarship D1 basketball player. Like laughably backwards.

[durenduren]

Yeah, I can't agree with the "super class" stuff because they really are. And for what they do for their schools, they should be to a certain extent. Life isn't fair, but look at all the good they can do.

[MisterD]

It's basically arguing you're as good or better than your supervisor's supervisor's supervisor. You might be a nicer guy or better person, but 99 out of 100 times you aren't contributing more to your company. The odds of any of us giving to La Salle during our undergrad years what Jesse Morgan gives to a school are pretty slim.

[MisterD]

(Of course, that assumes what he got kicked out for was a function of being a noticeable figure. If it were criminal, it would be a different story, but there's no indication it was.)

[durenduren]

May 24, 2013 23:18:57 GMT -5 MisterD said:

(Of course, that assumes what he got kicked out for was a function of being a noticeable figure. If it were criminal, it would be a different story, but there's no indication it was.)

I'm curious if it'll leak out why he got the boot. Early rumors are pointing toward this being tied into whatever the off-court issue was that prompted his one game suspension prior to last season, but I'm not sure that makes full sense. I'm not about to prosecute the kid without 100% of the facts, and I think that's only fair.

At the same time though, I'm interested in how the eligibility thing plays out. Think if you violate a university or team policy/standard to which you agreed and it's enough to get shown the door, that should be on you. I don't believe that warrants a waiver, considering you've shown yourself the door.

Shame for UMass though, gotta be tough one to swallow.

[crayzeeguy]

Do we even know for sure if Temple has an available scholarship or does this kid have to continue to pay his own way through if he wants to play ball?

[MisterD]

DurenDuren, if I skipped class or study hall (which I didn't even have mandated, of course), I could still get a scholarship or financial aid at another school. No reason a player shouldn't be able to do the same and no reason a school should be able to decide "we don't want you but we don't want anyone else to have you either". That's creepy boyfriend stuff.

[lwc4591]

Crazeeguy I didn't think poor Jeese paid a penny so far to go to college like almost 98% of people do. Truth is if we were true capitalist there would be no such thing as a free ride and come to think of it there isn't because all the other people are picking up the tab. Smile because you and I and not the college are paying for the schollies but the wonderful colleges not to worry will take all the credit as being the generous ones. BARF

[MisterD]

Morgan makes money for the university well beyond the value of his scholarship.

[MisterD]

And if we were "true capitalists", college athletes would get paid. So just stop.

[lwc4591]

You are correct and to think I thought getting a free four year ride was getting paid how foolish of me.
If a four year scollie is on average worth about $200,000 that means if a college player plays 120 games in his/her four year he/she gets paid approx. $1667 per game but of course I understand that they are not getting paid. Mister D maybe you do not recognize they ARE getting paid but I am certain many would differ.

[theneumann64]

Attachment Deleted

[lwc4591]

Neumann I didn't realize you were so sensitive

[theneumann64]

Well I was trying to be funny instead of taking a position, but mine is this:

You're wrong regarding the whole "education is the same as getting paid" thing. It's always been wrong, and I don't understand the point you are trying to make with respect to this specific kid. MisterD is spot on about the true capitalists thing, because capitalism rewards people with money based on demand. Education is tied up in this because it always has been, and we won't be able to divorce it from that any time soon.

It's like when guys complain about superstars in the pros leaving teams for more money and say stuff like "Guys in the 50's were loyal, they never left" even though the real reason is the reserve clause bound them to a team forever. It's just saying a bunch of words without an actual understanding of the subject at hand.

[lwc4591]

Well Neumann everyone has an opinion which is a good thing and as far as Jesse M. goes it has nothing to do with him although he did go to numerous high schools and now is entering his third college so he clearly has his own problems. As long as our higher institutions of education can make a buck off of him it is all systems go and we all know that is true. (Love of the buck no matter what the cost). I am happy that young inner city kids do have a chance to escape bad situations and improve their lives through scholarship opportunities but it is wrong to pretend that they are not receiving a financial gift and should view it as such. In closing my real problem is with the colleges and not the kids. Thank goodness we have the banks, colleges, insurance and medical companies to look after all of our interest. And to think that we fear earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes.

[cpico]

May 25, 2013 12:03:36 GMT -5 theneumann64 said:

Well I was trying to be funny instead of taking a position, but mine is this:

You're wrong regarding the whole "education is the same as getting paid" thing. It's always been wrong, and I don't understand the point you are trying to make with respect to this specific kid. MisterD is spot on about the true capitalists thing, because capitalism rewards people with money based on demand. Education is tied up in this because it always has been, and we won't be able to divorce it from that any time soon.

It's like when guys complain about superstars in the pros leaving teams for more money and say stuff like "Guys in the 50's were loyal, they never left" even though the real reason is the reserve clause bound them to a team forever. It's just saying a bunch of words without an actual understanding of the subject at hand.

I'm not sure I agree with you on your position about free education is not the same as getting paid. Obviously you're not getting a salary, but I would think not having to pay for $40,000-$50,000 in expenses each year and not having to pay student loans back when you are done counts for something. I don't understand how anyone can overlook that. Also having academic advisors and athletic trainers is a nice incentive, and it's also a nice perk to get to travel the country playing a sport you love and take all that in.

In this case, money (aka tuition not being paid) and education do go hand in hand. Seems pretty difficult to separate them to me.

[lwc4591]

Cpico, the voice of reason. In the Land of Entitlement anything goes and doesn't have to be appreciated because many deserve all that comes their way. I live in the engineering world (we all recognize that people in that field have problems being normal)that is why I see a scholarship as a huge gift ($200,00 worth) which should be valued highly and in some cases is. I used to play basketball two-three hours after school many a day and never got paid and had a great time just as I am sure these kids are having even a greater time with all the attention they receive along with a free education.