|
|
Post by thelasallelunatic on May 6, 2024 10:59:06 GMT -5
I think you hit on a lot of good topics here, but there's not going to be an easy solution to any of it. The biggest underlying problem that you highlighted was when you mentioned that there is no one young on this message board. The only way to improve our standing long-term (locally, regionally, or nationally) without one of the 30 weirdos on here winning the Mega Millions is to find a way to get students to be interested in the team. And I don't know how you do that. Pizza giveaways and half-court shots are fun, but they don't seem to be doing the trick. I am 37 now, and I don't know what makes 18-22 year-olds interested in 2024. Male students, female students - I don't really care. If students continue to not be interested in the team, then the future is only going to get more bleak as people on this board pass away or move away or forget their login passwords. There has to be a way to do it, but I don't have a clue what it is. And it seems like all the well-intentioned efforts to improve student interest have not yielded much in the way of results. Maybe the new arena will help, but maybe not. Just my two cents (which, admittedly, is more than I have given to the NIL collective). This is a good point. I'm a year older than you (turn 38 next Saturday) and I still think of guys our age as "Young Alumni" even though I graduated 16 years ago this week. The problem is, I think in terms of committed fans, I'm still right. Anyone under 40 probably constitutes the youngest 10% of our committed fan base. And to be honest, I think that generation is gone. If you graduated in 2008 like me, and haven't cared at all about La Salle basketball since then (with the exception of maybe 2 weeks in 2013), you're probably not coming back, short of a level of success we're unlikely to attain. Maybe you come back for a game to see the new arena and that hooks you, but I'm doubtful that happens in significant numbers. I've said this before, but the last sustained run of successful La Salle basketball ended in let's say 1992. 32 years ago. If you were a Freshman in 1992, you're 50 years old now. If you're younger than that, you've seen basically 2 years of basketball that would entice you to keep investing (emotionally, but this applies financially as well), unless you're one of the true die-hards like myself, Manayunk, stlexplorer and a few others. I'm 2 years older than you... am I an old fuck yet? |
|
|
|
Post by nyalum on May 6, 2024 12:59:54 GMT -5
That move to the MCC in 1992 was a horrible, horrible move with long-lasting repercussions.
|
|
|
|
Post by explorer88 on May 6, 2024 13:05:29 GMT -5
That move to the MCC in 1992 was a horrible, horrible move with long-lasting repercussions. This move has no bearing on today. In fact, La Salle was so lucky to get the A-10 to invite them 4 years later. La Salle has no one to blame but themselves. Both from a university wellness standpoint and athletic standpoint. There so many stories that just mystify alumni over the years that we self-inflicted. The leadership at the school has been horrific over the years. I am hopeful of the new leadership but it will take time to figure a lot of things out. |
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 13:22:58 GMT -5
That move to the MCC in 1992 was a horrible, horrible move with long-lasting repercussions. This move has no bearing on today. In fact, La Salle was so lucky to get the A-10 to invite them 4 years later. It has plenty of bearing though. Recruiting took a spike that La Salle never recovered from and by the time they were in the A10, the cupboard was bare...Speedy was apathetic...and La Salle was destined to be an A10 bottom feeder for all but like four of the next 20+ years. |
|
|
|
Post by explorer88 on May 6, 2024 13:28:49 GMT -5
This move has no bearing on today. In fact, La Salle was so lucky to get the A-10 to invite them 4 years later. It has plenty of bearing though. Recruiting took a spike that La Salle never recovered from and by the time they were in the A10, the cupboard was bare...Speedy was apathetic...and La Salle was destined to be an A10 bottom feeder for all but like four of the next 20+ years. MCC had very little bearing on the A-10 after the initial year or two. Speedy basically stopped recruiting. 50% of his recruits never made it on campus or made it through 4 years at La Salle. That and the facility issue from 1997 were so much more damaging than the MCC move. 3-4 Years after moving to the A-10 he had a lineup of Donnie Carr, Julian Blanks, Victor Thomas, Rasual Butler, and K'Zell Wesson. he didn't have any bench which was part of the issue but how he didn't win with those teams is beyond me. The MCC was long gone from our issues. |
|
|
|
Post by theneumann64 on May 6, 2024 13:33:10 GMT -5
The MCC move was bad but it wasn't "take 30 years to recover from" bad. Hard to imagine we'd be in a much different spot today if we'd skipped that part and gone straight into the A-10.
|
|
|
|
Post by coqui900 on May 6, 2024 13:33:32 GMT -5
I would say the rape scandal was also pretty detrimental. Billy Hahn was a clown as we all know. But La Salle somehow took a bad hit in the press locally because the administration cut ties with the players and the two coaches really quickly. I mean, that was pretty much the right thing to do both legally(from what I understand) and ethically.
This will forever boggle my mind. Steven A. Smith was at the Inky still and wrote a column that led with him telling parents not to send their kids to La Salle for cutting ties with players who took advantage of a young woman and a coach who tried to hide it. Billy Hahn also had a neverending string of “woe is me” press from John Feinstein and the like for years, too.
Who knows how badly the scandal hurt us behind the scenes. We got a better coach in Dr. G. But I can absolutely see how people in the jockeying underneath for recruits would hold all of that against La Salle for a little bit, which is absolutely repulsive to think about.
|
|
|
|
Post by explorer88 on May 6, 2024 13:35:59 GMT -5
The MCC move was bad but it wasn't "take 30 years to recover from" bad. Hard to imagine we'd be in a much different spot today if we'd skipped that part and gone straight into the A-10. Exactly right. Poor Recruiting Poor facilities Lack of investment in the program Rape Scandal All had a far greater impact on the program than the MCC move. Not even close. |
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 13:43:58 GMT -5
Who knows how badly the scandal hurt us behind the scenes. Somebody does. I don't think enrollment took a gigantic hit. |
|
|
|
Post by coqui900 on May 6, 2024 13:55:05 GMT -5
Yeah, I doubt any parents make their college decisions based on the views of Steven A. Smith. But recruiting wise? It could be bad.
The main thing hurting La Salle is that the feeder schools are closing. Catholic high schools targeting middle class/lower middle class students are becoming few and far between. The school is in a bad neighborhood without anything to do around it. Campus life fell off a lot since COVId. That is pretty much every school like ours. There has become such a focus on things like tech in the “real world” at the expense of liberal arts, too. I have no idea how to counter that there is less of a value now on having an English degree and that student debt is a nightmare for a lot of people. (Even though I think liberal arts is more important than ever — knowing how to code is fine, but knowing why what you are coding is important is better.)
We do a good job as a school as being the “rung up” for a lot of students and families. A lot of my friends when I went in the 90s were the first kids in their families to get a degree (siblings not included.) They were all from Philly neighborhoods or inner ring suburbs like Upper Darby.
I was the first in my family to be able to go away to college and not have to commute to school, and was able to get a creative field job and career as a result.
But we face a lot of uphill problems not of our doing but because small Catholic liberal arts schools in rough neighborhoods aren’t in favor.
|
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 13:58:30 GMT -5
I like this conversation, but don't want to have it here. The problem for La Salle is it costs about 250k to go there for four years and is the level of education better than West Chester for PA residents? Is the alumni network that much better? If you aren't a D1 athlete...what differentiates the school other than it being in an urban environment?
I'm not going to derail the purpose of the thread though.
|
|
|
|
Post by explorerburger on May 6, 2024 15:24:32 GMT -5
You could point to dozens and dozens of individual failures that led us here. The list is staggeringly long.
None of them are the single root cause of our current situation, but the sustained totality of them all point to a chronic crisis of leadership and strategic direction.
That said, the past decade has seen seismic shifts in the collegiate and collegiate sports landscapes. It's happening fast and it is chaotically disruptive. To be sure, there are small private schools that are much better prepared for for this moment, but tbh, I doubt that any of them feel very secure about their futures. This is not a great time to run a university.
|
|
|
|
Post by blueandgold on May 6, 2024 15:46:27 GMT -5
Call me old-fashioned, but does anyone ever bother to highlight the value of a college degree, to the extent an athlete is on scholarship, as compensation for representing the university?
At big conference schools and more successful programs elsewhere, I can see some argument for funding NIL due to the value the school obtains from revenue-generating sports being in excess of the scholarship itself - though likewise if you have to just funnel out that same excess to the students, what incentive would there be for the school?
Otherwise it just feels like tossing $ around for the heck of it when frankly there are so many more productive uses. I wish there was a $ cap but we will never see that short of something catastrophic happening financially.
I hope the Attic upgrades will keep us afloat for a while, but I wish I were more optimistic. I too pretend subconsciously to still be a young alum, but I’m 14 years removed. I run into very few people at games from my class, if any. And when I do, it’s because I invite my college roommate to join me.
I appreciate Joe taking the time to put his thoughts together. Most of it made sense to me, including taking a somewhat unique strategy on spreading the $. We can all complain like I did about state of things or try to talk out solutions.
|
|
|
|
Post by lasallealum on May 6, 2024 16:58:29 GMT -5
The thread started off, I would imagine, with hopes of starting a real conversation. We seem to have went off the tracks again talking about the move to the MCC, Speedy, past mistakes etc. which it seems most threads turn to now. I also don't think we need to discuss the distaste for NIL or paying 18 year olds again... we get it.
Building off the end of blueandgold's post which he ended "We can all complain like I did about state of things or try to talk out solutions" I agree.
Clearly the math in the original post was 90% off but nonetheless the concept of a grassroots push to get 1000 people to donate $100 to bring in $100,000 is very much appealing to me and also probably attainable. I have no idea how many people are active on this board. But i would imagine we could get together and find 100 people this week to dive in. I personally think we as alumni have to push other to get involved.
If anyone wants to actually talk about this lets chat.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoopsguest on May 6, 2024 17:35:29 GMT -5
I have supported the program in various ways thru the years. I can’t give to a collective though. It’s pay for play and it’s awful for college athletics as a whole. NIL was meant to allow athletes to make money off their name and likeness - for a kid to run a lacrosse camp using his name and make money in the summer - for Livy Dunne to do yoga pants commercials because she is attractive and not be prohibited from doing so because she is an athlete, for DJ Burns to parlay his tournament success into a deal with Buffalo Wild Wings. NIL was never meant as a way for colleges to have to raise money for paying players in order to compete. Unfortunately the NCAA is gutless and stupid and instead of just fixing the problem they want an institution that is just as gutless and stupid (Congress/government) to do so
|
|
|
|
Post by lasallejohn on May 6, 2024 17:42:47 GMT -5
All for the 1,000 for $100. Let’s go
|
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 18:20:28 GMT -5
What does that amount of money do though. Gets you 27% of Brickus.
|
|
|
|
Post by lasallealum on May 6, 2024 18:32:16 GMT -5
What does that amount of money do though. Gets you 27% of Brickus. A really good start… also wasn’t this your idea? |
|
|
|
Post by jb71 on May 6, 2024 18:59:07 GMT -5
I have supported the program in various ways thru the years. I can’t give to a collective though. It’s pay for play and it’s awful for college athletics as a whole. NIL was meant to allow athletes to make money off their name and likeness - for a kid to run a lacrosse camp using his name and make money in the summer - for Livy Dunne to do yoga pants commercials because she is attractive and not be prohibited from doing so because she is an athlete, for DJ Burns to parlay his tournament success into a deal with Buffalo Wild Wings. NIL was never meant as a way for colleges to have to raise money for paying players in order to compete. Unfortunately the NCAA is gutless and stupid and instead of just fixing the problem they want an institution that is just as gutless and stupid (Congress/government) to do so I'm still expecting the next shoe drops when some athletes decide the NIL money is more appealing than graduating and getting a job or playing overseas. They'll file suits to play a few extra years in pursuit of more degrees and the NCAA will lose again. And I'm a 71er who still thinks he's a young alum...😁 |
|
|
|
Post by thelasallelunatic on May 6, 2024 19:13:07 GMT -5
What does that amount of money do though. Gets you 27% of Brickus. It could pay 2 A10 starters... or 3 Drame brothers. |
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 20:23:36 GMT -5
What does that amount of money do though. Gets you 27% of Brickus. A really good start… also wasn’t this your idea? current collective did better. I messed my math up. La Salle is better off not playing the game. |
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 20:24:34 GMT -5
What does that amount of money do though. Gets you 27% of Brickus. It could pay 2 A10 starters... or 3 Drame brothers. It gets you two La Salle starters. Not two VCU or Dayton or Saint Louis starters. |
|
|
|
Post by lasallealum on May 6, 2024 20:38:12 GMT -5
A really good start… also wasn’t this your idea? current collective did better. I messed my math up. La Salle is better off not playing the game. So…. What? Now you like the collective? La salle shouldn’t play what game? |
|
|
|
Post by JoeFedorowicz on May 6, 2024 20:41:02 GMT -5
Did you read what I wrote? I think La Salle has to play in the NIL world, but can’t do it the way other schools do. Raising $100k more is nice. But it’s not going to be sustainable if you’re just going to haggle for another A10 starter.
|
|
|
|
Post by thelasallelunatic on May 6, 2024 20:45:04 GMT -5
Let me ask you a question, Jig Brickus was a good player for La Salle. Better than Blanks, maybe even to Jermaine Thomas... he wasn't Tyreek Duren.
If Del is to be believed, and we have no reason not to believe him at this point, is Brickus worth 350K? He's never won more than 16 games, which was this year. He's never had a winning record, never made an A10 semi, he's a 3rd team all A10 player. That's Jermaine Thomas, but 4 inches shorter and can't shoot like JT. Does Jig get Nova to the Dance? If nova is sitting at 17-16 losing to VCU on March 14, is that 350K basically a waste?
Landing the plane here, if you put together this 100K thing that Explorertown raised, and we get 2 starters out of it, can't the main collective take care of the remaining players?
I can't believe I'm even considering this, but if somebody wants to QB an Explorertown grassroots thing where we try and buck up 100K via 100 or 200 dollar collections, let's just say I'm intrigued.
|
|
|
|
Post by GlitterBro #2 on May 6, 2024 22:26:06 GMT -5
An Explorertown collective might be the most dysfunctional of collectives in college sports.
|
|
|
|
Post by thelasallelunatic on May 6, 2024 22:51:27 GMT -5
An Explorertown collective might be the most dysfunctional of collectives in college sports. Yes, but I trust 2 things... it will be done honestly, and that we'd probably get 100K out of it. |
|
|
|
Post by theneumann64 on May 7, 2024 5:36:21 GMT -5
An Explorertown collective might be the most dysfunctional of collectives in college sports. Would that be a collective to pay people to come to this board and post? |
|
|
|
Post by crayzeeguy on May 7, 2024 6:53:26 GMT -5
An Explorertown collective might be the most dysfunctional of collectives in college sports. I’d be donating odd sums, such as $1.35, under the name of my least favorite posters, just so everyone thinks they are cheapskates |
|
|
|
Post by giveansk1 on May 7, 2024 6:55:14 GMT -5
One of my big hang-ups with La Salle NIL contributions is even if La Salle has a good year and finishes 4th in the league and wins 20 games but fails to make the postseason, were my contributions a waste? That would be a great year for La Salle in this or any season, but if I spent a good chunk of change for it, would it be acceptable? It would be a lot more enjoyable if it cost less.
I'm curious what happens to the House Vs. NCAA case among other legal cases and what the fallout will be. I expect there will be a breakaway from the current D-1 model and B1G/SEC schools/broadcast partners will directly pay players and they will eventually be tied to contracts. That would eventually reduce the roster turnover but would bring about other issues. I don't think NIL will go away completely either because Pandora's box has been opened. Right now its the wild west.
La Salle is/will probably be a development territory for the Power conferences to pick off guys they want (Brickus), but is also taking guys from lower levels (Acker). The A10 is a good league but La Salle is viewed from the outside as a "take the checks, take the losses" program in it.
|
|
