MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 15, 2020 10:06:53 GMT -5
Maybe the players should stay on the baseball field until the city gives them the team back. It worked for the "protestors" on the parkway. Be the change you want to see. I've got a sweet 2 person tent like the one below if you want to borrow it.  |
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 15, 2020 10:10:04 GMT -5
Again, not advocating it, I know there's drawbacks, but if all the thing people say about this school being unable to compete financially and structurally are actually true, there's something to recommend it. I think if there were a full conference reset, we'd be placed below the A-10 level. I think we'd win more and probably make the tourney more often by virtue of the auto-bid setup. However, if you're at that level and you're offered a move up, I imagine most every school would jump at that chance. We're just on Year 20-something of not taking advantage of the chance we were given and it would probably be worse to go backwards than to keep struggling. |
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Post by 23won on Oct 15, 2020 11:35:52 GMT -5
The MAAC is not a solution.
Ash is doing his best and I think we will start seeing results. The focus should be on supporting him and then making him happy to stay, in that order.
Stay focused and execute. If anyone can do that at 20th & Olney, it is Ash, and IMO there are two key steps up to success for us. (1) The first huge step is getting into the top third of the league (and that is within reach this year I believe, as the difference between being 9th and being 5th is razor thin this year) and (2) then building on that improvement (with incrementally better players who can more easily buy into a program on the way up and a positive program culture). It can happen! Stay positive!!
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joe
Utility Bench Player
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Post by joe on Oct 15, 2020 12:13:50 GMT -5
The MAAC is not a solution. Ash is doing his best and I think we will start seeing results. The focus should be on supporting him and then making him happy to stay, in that order. Stay focused and execute. If anyone can do that at 20th & Olney, it is Ash, and IMO there are two key steps up to success for us. (1) The first huge step is getting into the top third of the league (and that is within reach this year I believe, as the difference between being 9th and being 5th is razor thin this year) and (2) then building on that improvement (with incrementally better players who can more easily buy into a program on the way up and a positive program culture). It can happen! Stay positive!! After ash’s second good year, he will leaving for a better school. |
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Post by explorer88 on Oct 15, 2020 12:51:13 GMT -5
After ash’s second good year, he will leaving for a better school. Probably correct but that is where La Salle and other mid-major schools are in today's college basketball landscape. La Salle just needs to make good hires and build the program. If Ash has an assistant that is very good and he leaves La Salle promotes the assistant. Every good program in the A-10 has had their coach plucked by higher ones. Just the nature of beast today. Can't be afraid of that. If Ash gets another job we know we are in better shape as a program. Up to the administration to find another who can do the job. |
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Post by hoopsguest on Oct 15, 2020 17:59:10 GMT -5
Side note - CBS Sports did an article today on possible MLB GM candidates. Receiving votes so to speak at article's end was Kevin Ibach of the Rays, he's their director of pro scouting.
La Salle alum and baseball player
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LaSallePal
Mop-Up Time
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Post by LaSallePal on Oct 18, 2020 8:22:44 GMT -5
Quick warning: This is approximately 954 words.
Butler is a good comparison. Besides the year Butler spent in the Atlantic 10, Butler and La Salle shared a conference in the 90s as Butler was a Horizon (Midwest) founding member in the 70s.
In 2006 Butler’s endowment was $120m, in 2019 it was $200m. Not THAT much more than La Salle’s now. Ten years ago, Butler was *still* in the Horizon League. (Other former Horizon schools include Notre Dame, Butler and Marquette, and coincidentally Dayton, Xavier and Virginia Tech joined the Atlantic 10 the same year as La Salle.) The school also has an enrollment similar to La Salle’s and exists in a town somewhat similar to Philadelphia. Before Butler basketball broke out their Wikipedia page was so neglected that the only real notable alumnus listed was Jim Jones. Yes, that Jim Jones. This is reflective of the interest locals had in the school. Butler’s a great example of how you can really build over time, and in a relatively short time, but the competence to build the infrastructure that allows you to capitalize on opportunities when they arise has to be there first. Does La Salle have that in 2020? If not, start there.
Plenty of schools make a name for themselves in lower levels, and sometimes they do drop down a level to do so. Here are some examples:
New Mexico State was the odd man out in the west after the Mountain West absorbed most of the WAC worth absorbing. They do pretty well in the WAC now. VCU went from the Sun Belt to the old Metro conference, which they got kicked out of. They went down to the CAA, which they parlayed into the Atlantic 10. Cincinnati went from the Metro to Conference USA to the AAC, Louisville went Metro-CUSA-AAC, Houston went Southwest-CUSA-AAC, and TCU went Southwest-WAC-CUSA-Mountain West-Big 12. Obviously some of these moves were nonconsensual, and they're outliers, but the case exists.
Beyond that, there’s something to being a big fish in a small pond, and if your school has its shit together it’s a very lucrative pathway. Examples include Gonzaga, St. Mary’s, Wichita State, Creighton, Florida Gulf Coast, Vermont, Liberty, Hawaii, and North Dakota State. NDSU and Wichita State are notable in that grouping because NDSU gets way more coverage dominating FCS than they would being a middling Big 12 team, which they would be if they got an invite. The flip side of that is Wichita State, which went from being the big fish of the Missouri Valley Conference and perennial charming underdog to the latest middling misfit of the AAC. The AAC is also a uniquely terrible conference in that it really doesn’t benefit any of its members and they would all jump ship for greener pastures given the chance, and the Atlantic 10 is of a similar model now. Ideally in the future things will look more like the Mountain Pacific Sports Federation, or ECAC Hockey, or the Great America Rifle Conference, all of which constitute more logical arrangements than the present Atlantic 10 in their respective laser focuses. I think coronavirus will be the thing that knocks that all over, but we’ll see.
I do kind of wonder about how much of the pre-Hancyz dysfunction is still present at La Salle. The costs of competing are not low, but at the same time some of the sports mentioned weren’t expensive. The $15m number that got thrown out for baseball only makes sense if you’re aiming to endow *every* scholarship and the head coach position (and equipment?), which makes no sense (unless they're not negotiating in good faith). If they’re not considering student athlete scholarship limits as a function of the general student body student aid & mission fulfillment, I see this as a missed opportunity. I also think there was more sizzle than most people realize regarding La Salle in January when they were 9-3 going into the Dayton game. Sure they lost, and sure it wasn’t a lot of hype, but it was something. Beating bigger guys is nice, but wins build chatter. The schedule in the 89-90 season where La Salle went 30-2 also looks an awful lot like Wichita State’s last few seasons in the MVC. For quick reference, La Salle played in non conference: DePaul, Ohio State, Florida, and Notre Dame that year. Wichita State had Memphis, @ Utah, Seton Hall and Alabama in 2014-15, USC, Alabama, Iowa, Utah, @ Seton Hall in 15-16, and Louisiana State, Louisville, Michigan State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma state in 16-17. The year they went to the Final Four, they were an at large and the biggest name on their noncon was either a loss at Tennessee or a neutral win against Iowa. College basketball coaches aren’t nearly as cowardly as their football counterparts.
At the end of the day, coaching is king at the level La Salle plays at. Giannini managed to do the opposite, wherein he recruited second chance high end talent while glossing over coaching skills, and we see how that went. There’s no reason La Salle can’t rebuild a rapport with the coaches of the Northeast Corridor and find some hidden gems and coach em up (again?). Those kids are my favorite anyway, you get to watch them grow from above average so-called scrubs into the kinds of guys you talk about on here all the time. We don’t need McDonalds All-Americans, we need guys who aren’t afraid of working at McDonalds to get where they want to be. It’s time to build the infrastructure to achieve that, if such a thing is possible at La Salle. Ultimately, La Salle’s at where it’s at, and I hope the era of a thousand carefully spaced cuts is over.
I remain optimistic.
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Post by sidclassof69 on Oct 18, 2020 9:18:52 GMT -5
Took me about 1 hour to read, but I agree with the premise of the writing. Some very strong, and honest good points made.
My only wish is that we could really improve the facility and then see what happens. Wishful thinking?.🤔🤔🤔🤔 Probably
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 19, 2020 8:42:24 GMT -5
Quick warning: This is approximately 954 words.
I remain optimistic. This was great. I remain optimistic too because I think La Salle has the coach they need right now and with some hard work and a little bit of luck, I think they can be a top 25% team in the Atlantic 10. My only qualm with what you wrote was comparing Butler to La Salle and Indianapolis to Philadelphia. Philadelphia is 2x the size, has what I would consider actual suburbs (South Jersey, Montco, Bucks, Chester, Delco and some Berks) and has a diversity portfolio that Indianapolis does not. Butler is almost 82% white while La Salle is 48% white. The cost to attend Butler is also 30% more than La Salle. Why do I bring up racial and economic demographics? Because to your conferences point, I think La Salle University has to figure exactly what they are and what demographics they want to serve. St. Joe's has a great basketball following, but their student population is both whiter and wealthier than La Salle's. Why does that matter? Because they have more "college student" types who want to rah-rah at a basketball game. While I was that type in school, I knew of many, many people who were not. I'm not going to get into how to fix that problem. I have thoughts but not for here. But as the purpose of this thread was to highlight La Salle cutting seven sports...them doing so moves the athletic department towards the type of school La Salle currently is. To be honest, La Salle as it currently exists should drop a level...but you can't do that and also expect to have the basketball team you have now. Or to retain a coach like coach Howard. But I think they're trying to change that and become more of a rah-rah school...which you can see in some of the moves they've made. |
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Post by 23won on Oct 19, 2020 9:13:47 GMT -5
Pal makes some interesting points about the history of big fish in small ponds doing pretty well in the NCAAs. However the CBB world has changed drastically since those examples because
1) Big football budgets and per diems are driving recruits to pick P5 schools for the conference even if the school has no real winning history or tradition. It's the bright lights big arena factor. May of those kids in the past would have gone to Horizon, MAAC or MCC schools but they don't do that any more. There are no hidden gems as kids are getting recruited by universities and feeder/finishing high schools that are an on-ramp to a top 20 program.
2) If 1 wasn't enough, the P6 schools get all the top tv spots and have benefited from bigger conference schedules and the self-serving Power GRID system that is the litmus test for NCAA qualification and seeding
3) If you drop down to a one bid league, you could have a fantastic year and fail to qualify if you don't in the tourney
4) How long will one bid leagues continue to have an automatic bid. That Darwinian process no doubt will happen
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 19, 2020 9:19:07 GMT -5
They'll never kill the auto-bid because that's half the fun of the tourney. What they will do is continually expand until its 75% of the major conference schools plus two dozen others.
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Post by las71 on Oct 19, 2020 10:21:57 GMT -5
At some point I believe the power 5 conferences plus the Big East will leave the NCAA and form their own organization. It's all about money. They don't want to share with non power 5 conferences and while they don't want to pay the players, they are willing to do whatever it takes to keep the money rolling in. The non power conferences need to be ready to pick up the pieces when this happens and move forward. There will still be TV money and conference championships to be won and NCAA championships although it won't have the same prestige as the big dance has now. The costs of athletics has soared and the big time programs need to make more and more to feed the beast. Change is coming and we must adapt to survive.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 19, 2020 10:52:40 GMT -5
Maybe when they lose the ability to insure football?
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Post by explorerman on Oct 19, 2020 20:30:09 GMT -5
As I will continue to emphasize.. La Salle had no busy offering the most amount of sports in the conference.... Especially when you consider the state schools that are in conference with tax payer funded schools in ...
The decision sucks but was the correct move..
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Post by gymrat67 on Oct 23, 2020 11:07:15 GMT -5
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Post by explorerman on Oct 23, 2020 19:41:41 GMT -5
Shame that an immature young alum made the very short-sighted move to involve someone represents the exact opposite of what St John Baptist de La Salle and the order he founded represents...
Without question hurt any little chance they had by pissing off the decision makers and embarrassing the student body and alumni base.
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Post by big5explorer on Oct 24, 2020 9:40:21 GMT -5
Shame that an immature young alum made the very short-sighted move to involve someone represents the exact opposite of what St John Baptist de La Salle and the order he founded represents... Without question hurt any little chance they had by pissing off the decision makers and embarrassing the student body and alumni base. This is like being critical of someone adrift in a lifeboat for getting help from the first ship that appears. |
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Post by calsufan on Oct 24, 2020 11:22:22 GMT -5
Shame that an immature young alum made the very short-sighted move to involve someone represents the exact opposite of what St John Baptist de La Salle and the order he founded represents... Without question hurt any little chance they had by pissing off the decision makers and embarrassing the student body and alumni base. This is like being critical of someone adrift in a lifeboat for getting help from the first ship that appears. Such a facile comment. Let's say that boat was adrift in the South Pacific during WWII and it happened to be an enemy ship that was the first to come aboard an American lifeboat. Let's not simplify things so much, as not all "help" is good help. |
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Post by theneumann64 on Oct 24, 2020 11:31:48 GMT -5
I’ve made my feelings on Portnoy and Barstool and his “stoolies” plain, and like I said I’d be disgusted if the school itself got involved with him, but I really can’t blame the actual players for trying to do whatever they could. I wish they picked a less disgraceful individual? Sure. But I understand what they were trying to do.
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Post by explorerman on Oct 24, 2020 20:04:57 GMT -5
Shame that an immature young alum made the very short-sighted move to involve someone represents the exact opposite of what St John Baptist de La Salle and the order he founded represents... Without question hurt any little chance they had by pissing off the decision makers and embarrassing the student body and alumni base. This is like being critical of someone adrift in a lifeboat for getting help from the first ship that appears. What a delusional view.. Are you just argumentative type just because you like taking the other side without thinking? I believe there were 25 Division 1 athletic departments that made program restructurings. How many programs out of those athletic departments reached out to the Barstool clown? Again, the current plan/idea should have been the focus from the start. |
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Post by big5explorer on Oct 25, 2020 9:49:28 GMT -5
This is like being critical of someone adrift in a lifeboat for getting help from the first ship that appears. What a delusional view.. Are you just argumentative type just because you like taking the other side without thinking? I believe there were 25 Division 1 athletic departments that made program restructurings. How many programs out of those athletic departments reached out to the Barstool clown? Again, the current plan/idea should have been the focus from the start. I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it. I simply think you are being overly critical of an alum because you don't like Portnoy. An alum reached out to someone with some influence and deep pockets to do something to save a dead program. If you want to be critical of how Portnoy handled things, fine. But don't rip an alum for being well-intentioned. Consider: 1. You used the phase "Shame on an immature young alum." Shame? Really? For an alum deciding to take the time attempting to help a program sentenced to death? And the use of "immature" and "young" are pejorative, and really unnecessary in your criticism. 2. How many of the programs from those "25 Division 1 athletic departments" were ultimately saved after not reaching out to the "Barstool clown?" 3. The "current plan/idea" isn't a guarantee baseball will be saved. |
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Post by diehardexplorer on Oct 25, 2020 11:11:13 GMT -5
c'mon big 5 explorer, don't you know this guy is "in the business of being correct"  |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 25, 2020 12:00:49 GMT -5
What has Portnoy done to actually save baseball?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 25, 2020 14:17:54 GMT -5
c'mon big 5 explorer, don't you know this guy is "in the business of being correct" business must be slow |
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Post by jellybean on Oct 26, 2020 14:38:48 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts: * La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with. It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help. It's never been about winning except for MBB and to a lesser degree a couple of other sports. It's ALL about enrollment. When the school was discussing ( in early days of this administration sans the AD) adding Water Polo someone I know was on the SAAC (Student Athlete Advisory Committee) asked this question. "Why are we adding another under-funded program when we have so many exiting programs that could use the funding?" The answer was " we are doing it for enrollment." Same with the decision to add Football and Wrestling. Tell me where the idea of winning and being competitive was at time? Mike Lake's Baseball team made the A10 Tournament. You think they would spend a few more bucks to help the program? Took a while to wear down the AD but Baseball finally got a new outdoor batting cage. Wow. Recently the MSOC HC said in an interview that he needed financial support for travel to the European Recruiting Showcases. Question. I looked at the Athletic Department list of sports. By my account we had 22 sports before the cuts ( where's 25 they mention). Prior to cuts, there were 192 males and 222 females. After the cuts, there are 107 males and 185 females. 85 male athletes were "eliminated" which was 44% of the overall total. 37 female athletes suffered the same fate which was 17% of the overall total. Interesting that after the cuts the male athletes represent 36.6% of total Student-Athletes which is almost the overall percentage of males on campus (38%). Congrats to Glitter for answering my question a couple of weeks ago. First the criteria used to determine which programs survived (would MBB check off a lot of those boxes?)and those that didn't survive. Second was while some thought this would help MBB and facilities the Women's programs will see increased funding to make them more competitive regionally and nationally. Get ready for those parades down Olney Avenue. Will we get sick of winning? |
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Post by explorergrad08 on Oct 26, 2020 15:16:16 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts: * La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with. It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help. Enrollment-driven athletic departments are Division III level. If you want to drive enrollment in all other sports, then why hire a guy from Northwestern as your AD? Who was the AD at the time? That should tell you all you need to know. Do you think Bradshaw was a proponent of having 25 sports to manage? I am sure he wanted to cut sports too. Mike Lake's baseball team made an Atlantic 10 Tournament? OK. What is your point? The whole point of this is 25 sports were too many to manage and a reinvestment into the other programs will allow them to compete at a higher level. I am sure there were reasons why the sports were chosen. It was mentioned previously that track and field/cross country count multiple times. Again, where are you going with this argument? Do you know everything that is going on within this decision? I certainly don't. But I do know that the vast majority of teams underperform at La Salle and I do not blame the school for doing something that a lot of other schools with far more resources are doing around the country. Glitter & you on the same page? Who would have thunk. No decision ever made will guarantee success. Decisions are made given data and allows the best opportunity for those programs that remain to succeed. Having 25 sports didn't allow that to happen. |
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Post by hoopsguest on Oct 26, 2020 15:27:34 GMT -5
I'm salty we are cutting America's pasttime in baseball (having a president from Canada excerbates this cut - she signed off on cutting our pasttime) and yet they keep golf which isn't even a real sport.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 26, 2020 15:55:05 GMT -5
Having to define which sport you meant by America's pasttime(sic) speaks volumes about baseball's status as America's pastime.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 26, 2020 16:08:25 GMT -5
Glitter & you on the same page? Who would have thunk. No decision ever made will guarantee success. Decisions are made given data and allows the best opportunity for those programs that remain to succeed. Having 25 sports didn't allow that to happen. Thank you for the compliment. I actually consider it an honor to be labeled on the same page with jellybean. He's a guy who's done more for the school and the basketball program than most without tons of fanfare or attention in real life about it. |
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Post by big5explorer on Oct 26, 2020 19:11:18 GMT -5
I'm salty we are cutting America's pasttime in baseball (having a president from Canada excerbates this cut - she signed off on cutting our pasttime) and yet they keep golf which isn't even a real sport. Personally, I'd be all for a D1 hockey team. Get rid of the pool and put a hockey rink in there... |
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