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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 11, 2020 22:01:25 GMT -5
Though ‘Blindsided’ by Cuts, La Salle Men’s Swimming Fighting Hard to Survivewww.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/though-blindsided-by-cuts-la-salle-mens-swimming-fighting-hard-to-survive/One of the possibilities for the original call, Johnson had hoped, was that it would’ve allowed swimmers to return to campus to train, like the men’s basketball team is doing. That wasn’t to be, and for Johnson, it gives the lie to the “25 sports, one team” motto of equality in the athletic department, where a middling basketball program is elevated above all other varsity offerings.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 12, 2020 5:28:11 GMT -5
Save the art. Keep all the teams. Don’t let anybody go.
And stay open forever.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 8:15:37 GMT -5
Save the art. Keep all the teams. Don’t let anybody go. And stay open forever. Be sarcastic. Speak illogically. Ignore common sense. And delete posts you disagree with. The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. Some professors/staff members impact their students significantly. Honestly, there are plenty of faculty members that don't. Incentives for faculty members to retire early is not the same as blindsiding entire programs by cutting them without any chance of fundraising, fighting, or negotiating a means by which they can be maintained. Quit with the false equivalencies and cop out answers. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. But I'm not surprised such a cheap response came from you.
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joe
Utility Bench Player
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Post by joe on Oct 12, 2020 8:25:31 GMT -5
Does anyone think that La Salle hired the wrong people to run the athletic department? The AD and chief of staff came from big schools. Maybe they are out of touch with La Salle.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 12, 2020 10:02:12 GMT -5
The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. Agree. A guy who was my roommate, fraternity brother, and one of my best lifelong friends played baseball for La Salle and still is in the record books as top 5 in hitting streak. He is a big supporter of La Salle and of the basketball program and is someone who likely would not have come to La Salle with no baseball program. Those are the kinds of students they won't be getting now, which is a shame because he was so involved with the school outside baseball and as an alum.
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Post by gymrat67 on Oct 12, 2020 11:29:36 GMT -5
Truly ironic timing, in retrospect ...
ALL of the since eliminated men's and women's sports teams were among those that this heartfelt paean to La Salle Athletics by graduating senior women's lacrosse defender Emily Talluto ' 20 so poignantly recognized and celebrated.
Thank You, La Salle Class of 2020
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 12, 2020 12:27:52 GMT -5
Agree. A guy who was my roommate, fraternity brother, and one of my best lifelong friends played baseball for La Salle and still is in the record books as top 5 in hitting streak. He is a big supporter of La Salle and of the basketball program and is someone who likely would not have come to La Salle with no baseball program. Those are the kinds of students they won't be getting now, which is a shame because he was so involved with the school outside baseball and as an alum. On the bright side he'll never fall out of the top 5 longest hitting streaks.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 12, 2020 15:38:49 GMT -5
Save the art. Keep all the teams. Don’t let anybody go. And stay open forever. Be sarcastic. Speak illogically. Ignore common sense. And delete posts you disagree with. The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. Some professors/staff members impact their students significantly. Honestly, there are plenty of faculty members that don't. Incentives for faculty members to retire early is not the same as blindsiding entire programs by cutting them without any chance of fundraising, fighting, or negotiating a means by which they can be maintained. Quit with the false equivalencies and cop out answers. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. But I'm not surprised such a cheap response came from you. Swing and a miss
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Post by diehardexplorer on Oct 12, 2020 16:17:21 GMT -5
Save the art. Keep all the teams. Don’t let anybody go. And stay open forever. Be sarcastic. Speak illogically. Ignore common sense. And delete posts you disagree with. The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. Some professors/staff members impact their students significantly. Honestly, there are plenty of faculty members that don't. Incentives for faculty members to retire early is not the same as blindsiding entire programs by cutting them without any chance of fundraising, fighting, or negotiating a means by which they can be maintained. Quit with the false equivalencies and cop out answers. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. But I'm not surprised such a cheap response came from you. grand slam
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Post by ltrain38 on Oct 12, 2020 18:50:51 GMT -5
Save the art. Keep all the teams. Don’t let anybody go. And stay open forever. Be sarcastic. Speak illogically. Ignore common sense. And delete posts you disagree with. The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. Some professors/staff members impact their students significantly. Honestly, there are plenty of faculty members that don't. Incentives for faculty members to retire early is not the same as blindsiding entire programs by cutting them without any chance of fundraising, fighting, or negotiating a means by which they can be maintained. Quit with the false equivalencies and cop out answers. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. But I'm not surprised such a cheap response came from you. I mean, why have a university at all? Eliminate all the faculty, burn the library. Keep baseball.
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Post by explorerman on Oct 12, 2020 18:59:33 GMT -5
Be sarcastic. Speak illogically. Ignore common sense. And delete posts you disagree with. The art impacted (MAYBE) a couple dozen people every year. The sports and athletic teams being cut impacted hundreds of athletes for a lifetime. Some professors/staff members impact their students significantly. Honestly, there are plenty of faculty members that don't. Incentives for faculty members to retire early is not the same as blindsiding entire programs by cutting them without any chance of fundraising, fighting, or negotiating a means by which they can be maintained. Quit with the false equivalencies and cop out answers. What was done is wrong. There is a right and wrong way to do things. To say a piece of art is the same as the lives of these athletes that worked for 20 years and committed to make La Salle athletics and the school a better place is laughable. But I'm not surprised such a cheap response came from you. I mean, why have a university at all? Eliminate all the faculty, burn the library. Keep baseball. Hehe
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Post by explorergrad08 on Oct 12, 2020 20:03:18 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts:
* La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with.
It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports.
La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 12, 2020 20:29:25 GMT -5
Welcome to the board and NPOA.
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Post by hykos1045 on Oct 12, 2020 20:29:58 GMT -5
just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. Good assumption. I found an independent source which said our baseball and softball budgets had been running generally third from the bottom in the A10 conference, and each only about half the median spent.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 12, 2020 20:32:56 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts: * La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with. It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help. Considering that our flagship sport, men's basketball, has never had much success in the Atlantic 10 in 25 years (4 winning conference seasons, never made it to the quarters of the A10 tournament) ... maybe the problem isn't the above named sports...maybe it is we don't belong in the Atlantic 10.
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Post by blueandgold on Oct 12, 2020 21:29:38 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts: * La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with. It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help. Considering that our flagship sport, men's basketball, has never had much success in the Atlantic 10 in 25 years (4 winning conference seasons, never made it to the quarters of the A10 tournament) ... maybe the problem isn't the above named sports...maybe it is we don't belong in the Atlantic 10. Are there schools that, of their own choosing, dropped down a level and financially (or otherwise) benefitted from doing so? Also, in fairness, MBB has made it to the quarters - just never to the semis. And, for all its flaws at least it has a base of paying season ticket holders and a dedicated fan message board.
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Post by hykos1045 on Oct 12, 2020 22:23:17 GMT -5
Never to the semis?
2002.
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Post by jellybean on Oct 13, 2020 9:41:19 GMT -5
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 13, 2020 16:38:00 GMT -5
If 2004 doesn’t happen there might be a banner hanging.
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postup
Mop-Up Time
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Post by postup on Oct 13, 2020 20:41:37 GMT -5
Considering that our flagship sport, men's basketball, has never had much success in the Atlantic 10 in 25 years (4 winning conference seasons, never made it to the quarters of the A10 tournament) ... maybe the problem isn't the above named sports...maybe it is we don't belong in the Atlantic 10. Talent-wise and money-wise, we should go back to the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference. We're more on a par with those schools than we are with the Atlantic 10.
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Post by explorer88 on Oct 14, 2020 8:40:35 GMT -5
St. Bonaventure has done well in the A-10. They are smaller than La Salle. If they can succeed why has La Salle not done as well? If you are honest and reflect on that there is no reason La Salle should do any worse than that school and yet the results don't show that. I would be out on this program if we went back to the MAAC. I wouldn't follow the program any longer.
There is no juice in that league. Pitino adds quite a bit but he won't last long at Iona. We would perform better but would not dominate like we did when Lionel Simmons came to La Salle. People forget before Lionel La Salle was not a dominant program in the MAAC an often would get bounced early in the conference tournament. I am not sure when the MAAC started but other than 1983 did La Salle ever do well in the MAAC before Lionel arrived?
La Salle's issues are the same whether the program is in the MAAC or A-10. You make a Sweet 16 run in 2013 and the school did nothing to capitalize on that run just like it did nothing to capitalize on what Lionel did for the program in the late 80's/early 90's. I said a month after that run if we do not improve the facility or commit to improving the facility in 2 years nothing would ever happen. 7 years later and just that nothing has happened. The buzz was so good in 2013 we should have been raising dollars like crazy but did very little to improve things.
This is the same school that turned down an offer for a 6,800 seat on campus arena where the GC would do the work at cost as well as renovate Gola in 1997 without putting seats behind the basket. Hold on to coaches for way too long. La Salle only needs to look in the mirror to see the architect of the basketball program's woes.
I love my school but their decisions are head scratching when it comes to the basketball program.
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Post by 23won on Oct 14, 2020 9:01:15 GMT -5
Spot on, 88.
We've had quite a tempest on these issues. What's past is prologue unless we stop the insanity and make the right choice, not a recycled retread of all past bad acts, by both the BoT and the Admins. It's time for a change.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 14, 2020 12:02:39 GMT -5
People forget before Lionel La Salle was not a dominant program in the MAAC an often would get bounced early in the conference tournament. I am not sure when the MAAC started but other than 1983 did La Salle ever do well in the MAAC before Lionel arrived? La Salle joined the MAAC in 83-84 and competed there for 9 seasons and had a winning conference record every season. 4 NCAA appearances and 3 NIT appearances. In terms of "non-Lionel" post seasons, 1 NCAA and 2 NIT tournaments.
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Post by diehardexplorer on Oct 14, 2020 12:07:50 GMT -5
Talent-wise and money-wise, we should go back to the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference. We're more on a par with those schools than we are with the Atlantic 10. and the hawk fan returns. go away d-bag.
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Post by calsufan on Oct 14, 2020 12:18:34 GMT -5
People forget before Lionel La Salle was not a dominant program in the MAAC an often would get bounced early in the conference tournament. I am not sure when the MAAC started but other than 1983 did La Salle ever do well in the MAAC before Lionel arrived? La Salle joined the MAAC in 83-84 and competed there for 9 seasons and had a winning conference record every season. 4 NCAA appearances and 3 NIT appearances. In terms of "non-Lionel" post seasons, 1 NCAA and 2 NIT tournaments. Were they pre or post Lionel? I'm assuming post, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 14, 2020 12:29:18 GMT -5
La Salle joined the MAAC in 83-84 and competed there for 9 seasons and had a winning conference record every season. 4 NCAA appearances and 3 NIT appearances. In terms of "non-Lionel" post seasons, 1 NCAA and 2 NIT tournaments. Were they pre or post Lionel? I'm assuming post, but I'm too lazy to look it up. 1 NIT was pre. There was an NCAA appearance in 83 as well, but that was 1-year pre-MAAC.
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Post by explorergrad08 on Oct 15, 2020 9:21:40 GMT -5
Interesting thread. I am not happy with the sports being cut but I understand it. Consider the facts: * La Salle sponsored the most Atlantic 10 teams of any league member. Think about that for a second. The MOST. * Baseball has a 185-379-1 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the worst behind Duquesne who no longer sponsors the sport. * Softball has a 132-315 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst to St. Bonaventure. * Volleyball has had two straight winning years but even including those two seasons has a 41-339 record in Atlantic 10 play which is the second-worst in front of St. Bonaventure who no longer sponsors the sport. * Tennis also has not done well in A-10 play having never won an Atlantic 10 Tournament match until two years ago. * Men's swimming has a history of success but in Atlantic 10 play has never won a team title in 25 years. * Men's water polo is quite new so you cannot really judge it based on four years, but it also did not fair well against teams it had to compete with. It isn't fair to the student-athletes to cut these sports. It isn't fair to the coaches. It isn't fair to the alumni. But I would argue that it also isn't fair to keep programs just to keep programs with a budget that I can only assume isn't near the top of the Atlantic 10 -- despite having the most sponsored sports. La Salle competes at the Division I level, not Division III. Programs should be run with a minimum level of commitment and maybe this is a way that the remaining programs can attempt to compete against the rest of the league. It doesn't mean that they will win everything but I would guess, if the resources are truly reinvested like the school's release says, it might help. Considering that our flagship sport, men's basketball, has never had much success in the Atlantic 10 in 25 years (4 winning conference seasons, never made it to the quarters of the A10 tournament) ... maybe the problem isn't the above named sports...maybe it is we don't belong in the Atlantic 10. It must be exhausting to be you. But I'll indulge. Do you believe changing conferences is a zero-sum game? The last time teams left the A-10 (Butler & Xavier), they were required to pay $2M to leave. Assuming that number is the same seven years later, where might that $2M be coming from -- especially during a pandemic? But for argument's sake, let's say La Salle did get the $2M (or more) to enter the MAAC. Do you believe going to the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference would instantly make the school more relevant in men's basketball? I do not believe that this is true, necessarily. We would be a top-half to top-quarter team right away, because our players are higher caliber right now. But in the long run, I do not think it helps as much as you think. Not only would the caliber of student-athlete that La Salle attracts diminish, but fan support for games against Niagara & Canisius would draw similar crowds to those non-conference games against FDU & Wagner. Less games on TV. Less chance of having a B.J. Johnson-type NBA player attending. Those guys aren't going to the MAAC. This isn't 1987. Additionally, it is a one-bid league -- if you're not great for three days in March, you aren't going to the NCAA Tournament. And shifting the focus to other sports -- which is really the argument being had -- do you believe that keeping 25 sports (MAAC institution average is 20.3) would strain the department's limited resources (financial and human) any less? You could argue that a more regionalized competition schedule allows for the financial funding level to rise organically. But, as is the case with MBB, after the current cycle of players graduates -- or even sooner with the new transfer rules -- the level of recruiting will fall with the level of the league. And while the majority could be more competitive, there are no guarantees they'd be in a significantly better position than they are now in the A-10. In terms of human capital, look at the staff directory. It is pretty evident that La Salle has a very lean department. Do you think 25 sports is the right number for a department that has a similar number of administrators as Saint Peter's -- who currently offers 16 sports?
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Post by 1801olney on Oct 15, 2020 9:27:49 GMT -5
Maybe the players should stay on the baseball field until the city gives them the team back. It worked for the "protestors" on the parkway.
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Post by theneumann64 on Oct 15, 2020 10:01:09 GMT -5
There are honestly a few points to be made that we shouldn't be in the A-10. I don't think it's as cut and dry as dipshits on the A-10 message board make it, and I'm not advocating for it. But it seems like too many people's response to any of the competitive disadvantages we have is that we simply need to overcome them, or somehow make them not exist any more. I agree that would be be better if we just rose to the level of being a consistently competitive A-10 program (in all sports, and in money, facilities, and fanbase as well), but I do think there's a legit discussion to be had.
Just to tackle the interest/attendance aspect- would there be more people, students and casual alumni, who would rather watch a team do better against worse teams? Going to a lower conference wouldn't automatically make us the best team in that conference, but the scenario of more people being interested in going to watch a 17-11 team beat Marist, then an 11-17 lose to George Mason, doesn't seem totally implausible to me.
Again, not advocating it, I know there's drawbacks, but if all the thing people say about this school being unable to compete financially and structurally are actually true, there's something to recommend it.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 15, 2020 10:03:13 GMT -5
It must be exhausting to be you. But I'll indulge. Nope...it's awesome being me Less games on TV. Less chance of having a B.J. Johnson-type NBA player attending. Those guys aren't going to the MAAC. This isn't 1987. Additionally, it is a one-bid league -- if you're not great for three days in March, you aren't going to the NCAA Tournament. "Fewer" games on TV . Regarding one-bid league...Um...we've had one bid in 25 years in a multi-bid league. At least in the MAAC, if we win the regular season but have a bad March, you're guaranteed an NIT bid. The argument for multi-bid goes out the window when we aren't getting one of those multi-bids. And nothing against a BJ Johnson-type player...but...how many post season's did he lead us to? And shifting the focus to other sports -- which is really the argument being had -- do you believe that keeping 25 sports (MAAC institution average is 20.3) would strain the department's limited resources (financial and human) any less? You could argue that a more regionalized competition schedule allows for the financial funding level to rise organically. But, as is the case with MBB, after the current cycle of players graduates -- or even sooner with the new transfer rules -- the level of recruiting will fall with the level of the league. And while the majority could be more competitive, there are no guarantees they'd be in a significantly better position than they are now in the A-10. In terms of human capital, look at the staff directory. It is pretty evident that La Salle has a very lean department. Do you think 25 sports is the right number for a department that has a similar number of administrators as Saint Peter's -- who currently offers 16 sports? I'm not against the sports being cut...more how it was handled. Announcing an assistant volleyball coach 3 weeks prior to the announcement seems odd. Announcing recruits for now eliminated sports seems odd. Baseball seemed to be turning the corner with nationally ranked recruiting classes the past 2 years. I have to believe the signs were here before the end of September. Most of those sports (other than volleyball) had people not on full scholarship, so they were paying SOMETHING to be at La Salle at a time of limited enrollment. Stating that a team's "Lasallian values" were used in making the selections is laughable. How was that judged exactly? Could these continue as club sports? Likely. Maybe that is the model for the non-revenue sports at universities moving forward. I'm not opposed to that. It certainly eliminates the need for following all the NCAA rules and regulations for those teams. I have a son rowing at Villanova where it is club, and a daughter rowing at Duquesne where it is NCAA. The forms, rules, regulations, etc are much different for my daughter than my son, but both will be in a boat rowing and competing against other college students, building friendships with teammates, working hard in practices, etc. Do I believe the MAAC is the way to go? Absolutely not. I was making a point that we made the post-season in the MAAC...not just with Lionel. I do wonder though....if we go another 5 years with no post-season, and we are 30 years in the A10 with only 1 NCAA bid under our belt for basketball...is it time then to rethink the A10?
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