MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 13, 2017 12:09:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 13:33:32 GMT -5
Put me down for 22-8. Realistically we should underperform that, but I see 22 very winnable games. (Losses to Texas Tech, Dayton, Miami, Northwestern, Rhode Island 2x, VCU, and Villanova.) Chances are they'll pick up a game or two I don't have them down as winning, and lose four or five that fire up the Giannini panini press. With all of the turnover in the Atlantic 10 and a favorable schedule, anything less than a birth in the NCAA tournament (and perhaps 20 wins by conference tournament time) is failure.
Is this optimistic? Probably. But a better coach would get it done, and if he can't get it done with this squad he's not getting it done.
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Post by theneumann64 on Oct 13, 2017 14:38:01 GMT -5
Here's the thing with the excitement/optimism. It's fine, but if we don't hit these numbers, you can't throw a fit about "not meeting expectations" when you're admitting up front that you're being overly optimistic in your "predictions."
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 13, 2017 14:45:36 GMT -5
Is this optimistic? Probably. But a better coach who is able to recruit the exact same roster to La Salle would get it done, and if he can't get it done with this squad he's not getting it done. FIFY!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 15:21:10 GMT -5
I saw that, but nowhere in there did anyone say a number 28. I heard 25+ and most of us laughed him off.
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Post by sweat83 on Oct 13, 2017 15:33:45 GMT -5
I'd like to see us go on a roll at the end of the regular season, and finish up 8-2 the last 10 games, and get on a roll going into the A10 tournament. That's when it counts the most. It seems that more often than not, this Team gets off to a pretty good start of the season, raises our hopes, then just drag us all down in February and March when the games matter most. 20 wins doesn't mean a whole lot after getting canned in the first round of the A10 tourney.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Oct 13, 2017 17:47:31 GMT -5
Is this optimistic? Probably. But a better coach who is able to recruit the exact same roster to La Salle would get it done, and if he can't get it done with this squad he's not getting it done. FIFY! I see you're in mid-season form.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 19:06:22 GMT -5
Here's the thing with the excitement/optimism. It's fine, but if we don't hit these numbers, you can't throw a fit about "not meeting expectations" when you're admitting up front that you're being overly optimistic in your "predictions." I meant that it was optimistic more in light of the fact that John Giannini is still the coach. Sometimes it feels like he could've coached the Dream Team to 10 losses. In that context, I think my prediction is pretty reasonable to judge him against. He's had 13 years to build to this point. Underperformance after having over a decade to build something is an indictment of his coaching, not my expectations. Also if I adopt that frame of mind, this would end up being his third rebuilding year. Do you really want to give him that mulligan? Really? Is this optimistic? Probably. But a better coach who is able to recruit the exact same roster to La Salle would get it done, and if he can't get it done with this squad he's not getting it done. FIFY! We're not really making separate points here. I am working from the understanding that a different, more talented hypothetical coach could indeed attract similar talent. The quality of the talent on the roster doesn't matter if he can't win with them. After a certain point, failure is failure, be it a 5, 10, or 15 win season. Maybe 15 stings less, but they all end up sitting at home and tweeting about the tournament in the end. I know Giannini has hardened certain low expectations, but as a young man still full of piss and vinegar I demand more than a 15 win ceiling. I demand more of myself, and we should all want more than the mediocrity he's been putting on the court. "Reasonable expectations" is just a reflexive defense of the ego. You can defend the ego or you can embrace the truth. I don't lie to myself, and I'm not about to start now.
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Post by lasalle89 on Oct 13, 2017 19:16:22 GMT -5
I am not a fan of G as a coach but do like him as a person and representative of our school. Since I know there is no way LaSalle will buy him out I am going to hope once again that we catch magic in a bottle. I think Pookie and Bj can be elite in the A10. I am hoping Washington has improved and everyone on the whole has matured. If we can play tough D and learn how to win the close games we should be fun to watch. We all know that if we do not have the wins to get an at large box there is no way G can win the A10 tourny. I hope LaSalle waits on giving G an extension unless he returns us to the NCAA's.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 13, 2017 19:18:41 GMT -5
We're not really making separate points here. I am working from the understanding that a different, more talented hypothetical coach could indeed attract similar talent. Totally. Could La Salle attract that coach?
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 13, 2017 19:21:18 GMT -5
Also, you can “demand” anything you want. I can go demand my 6 year old run faster than everyone else in her class if I choose to. I could also take a step back and assess whether I think those demands are reasonable based on her competition.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 20:11:56 GMT -5
We're not really making separate points here. I am working from the understanding that a different, more talented hypothetical coach could indeed attract similar talent. Totally. Could La Salle attract that coach? The nice thing about hypotheticals is that they allow you to isolate variables. La Salle attracting the hypothetical better coach doesn't matter. A better coach would get more out of talented, athletic individuals. A better coach's team would actually get better over the course of a season, not worse. As for the other thing, 124 schools pulled 20 wins last year, and 201 schools had more wins than La Salle. Nothing gets better if you accept that this is the best of all possible worlds, and since there are literally hundreds of examples of evidence to the contrary it's a strange position to have anyway. I don't understand why you come here, since your cynicism implies you think La Salle is a terrible place no thinking kid would ever want to attend or play basketball for. Why not just complete the emotional distance you've already developed and spend the time doing something else? Why spend your time on a message board telling people "La Salle is terrible at basketball and it will always be terrible at basketball and you're dumb if you think otherwise"? I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but seriously, why?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 20:55:14 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Athlon preseason basketball yearbook picks La Salle to finish 5th in the A-10.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Oct 13, 2017 21:24:17 GMT -5
I predict more than 16 wins
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 13, 2017 22:36:28 GMT -5
The nice thing about hypotheticals is that they allow you to isolate variables. La Salle attracting the hypothetical better coach doesn't matter. A better coach would get more out of talented, athletic individuals. A better coach's team would actually get better over the course of a season, not worse. Jay Wright would do better at La Salle. I don’t think anyone disputes this. As for the other thing, 124 schools pulled 20 wins last year, and 201 schools had more wins than La Salle. Nothing gets better if you accept that this is the best of all possible worlds, and since there are literally hundreds of examples of evidence to the contrary it's a strange position to have anyway. I don't understand why you come here, since your cynicism implies you think La Salle is a terrible place no thinking kid would ever want to attend or play basketball for. Why not just complete the emotional distance you've already developed and spend the time doing something else? Why spend your time on a message board telling people "La Salle is terrible at basketball and it will always be terrible at basketball and you're dumb if you think otherwise"? I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but seriously, why? What’s weird is that we both see a problem, clearly, but you see your answer of “just do better!” as smart or loyal or both and my answer of “the coach isn’t the problem” as somehow indicative of actually hating the same team where I make up about 3% of the active message board.
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Post by 23won on Oct 13, 2017 22:40:41 GMT -5
Athlon has hated us for 20 years+. 5th is like a guaranteed ncaa birth :-)
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Post by durenduren on Oct 13, 2017 23:32:50 GMT -5
Aye, the classic "anything less than a NCAA tourney birth is a disappointment" predictions...
The program is 52-67 over the last 4 seasons, just two seasons removed from the worst year in program history, yet the minimum acceptable is an NCAA tourney appearance. I won't ever get it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 2:43:13 GMT -5
The nice thing about hypotheticals is that they allow you to isolate variables. La Salle attracting the hypothetical better coach doesn't matter. A better coach would get more out of talented, athletic individuals. A better coach's team would actually get better over the course of a season, not worse. Jay Wright would do better at La Salle. I don’t think anyone disputes this. As for the other thing, 124 schools pulled 20 wins last year, and 201 schools had more wins than La Salle. Nothing gets better if you accept that this is the best of all possible worlds, and since there are literally hundreds of examples of evidence to the contrary it's a strange position to have anyway. I don't understand why you come here, since your cynicism implies you think La Salle is a terrible place no thinking kid would ever want to attend or play basketball for. Why not just complete the emotional distance you've already developed and spend the time doing something else? Why spend your time on a message board telling people "La Salle is terrible at basketball and it will always be terrible at basketball and you're dumb if you think otherwise"? I'm paraphrasing, obviously, but seriously, why? What’s weird is that we both see a problem, clearly, but you see your answer of “just do better!” as smart or loyal or both and my answer of “the coach isn’t the problem” as somehow indicative of actually hating the same team where I make up about 3% of the active message board. This discussion has happened dozens of times here. It's not "just do better," it's "we would like you to do better, but a ceiling has apparently been reached." Whether it's Giannini's or La Salle's, we won't know until someone else actually coaches here. In the meantime, continually keeping him on board without so much as a side glance sends the clear message that everyone in a position to do something about it is comfortable with where things are, which is why things are where they're at. It's not that John Giannini isn't Jay Wright, it's that he loses to so many people who aren't Jay Wright. There are plenty of good reasons why a tournament bid isn't reasonable for a given team, but failing to build to a tournament bid contender is not one of them. You're essentially asking me to lower my expectations because the bad team he put together two years ago justifies the failings-to-come of this year. Not interested, not gonna do it. Cobble something together to be more than the sum of its parts and go to the tournament, or it's just another year of everyone's time wasted.
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Post by 23won on Oct 14, 2017 7:05:16 GMT -5
Not intending to get in the middle of the fjord D debate just making some other points
1) generally agree with 89’s points
2) I don’t think the admin is going to renew the current contract; maybe a lower incentive driven contract if there is obvious progress in the remaining contract term
3) we don’t have the bling factors going for us but we have great academics, academic support, a rich tradition and a broad market to pull talent from. A good coach can win here. Winning not like Jay Wright but being in the mix for league top 5 a majority of the time and making the dance once every five years
As 89 said, I like G as a man and a rep of La Salle. I hope he takes what looks like a good group of players this year and makes something happen within my definition of winning above. It’s not too much to ask for and we shouldn’t devolve into negativity over what has happened the last four years. We all care for this team
Let’s get a positive vibe going, not get too high with the wins or too low in any given loss and see where this takes us come March.
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Post by talkinbball on Oct 14, 2017 9:21:15 GMT -5
I propose we try a moratorium on pro or anti G discussion until he starts losing winnable games AGAIN.
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Post by las71 on Oct 14, 2017 9:41:02 GMT -5
I understand Fjord"s frustration but is referring to G as a ***removed*** a fair comment. I'm happy to have this message board available for fans of La Salle hoops but sometimes our comments become too personal.G has been a good representative and is our team's coach this season so I just don't understand the value in any personal attacks ever and the value of criticizing his coaching before the new season even starts.
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Post by jimmywhispers on Oct 14, 2017 11:02:32 GMT -5
Who was it that thought we were winnng 28 games last year? I want to hear his prediction. That was me.
This Year----24 Wins
Book It
NCAA At Large Bid.
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Post by theneumann64 on Oct 14, 2017 16:50:46 GMT -5
I removed the comment in question, and the quoting of it to question it's validity. Thanks everyone. I missed that on my initial perusal of the thread.
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Post by lasalle89 on Oct 14, 2017 19:25:15 GMT -5
Who was it that thought we were winnng 28 games last year? I want to hear his prediction. That was me.
This Year----24 Wins
Book It
NCAA At Large Bid.
How I hope you are right.
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behoops
Utility Bench Player
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Post by behoops on Oct 14, 2017 19:52:15 GMT -5
18 wins.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2017 11:27:21 GMT -5
I removed the comment in question, and the quoting of it to question it's validity. Thanks everyone. I missed that on my initial perusal of the thread. John Giannini has won 49.1% of his games at La Salle. Mediocre basketball ✔️ John Giannini is 54 years old. Middle aged ✔️ John Giannini notes his residence as New Jersey. SNJ suburb ✔️ La Salle has made John Giannini a millionaire, and has little to show for it. The point is not to make this personal. The point is to illustrate how ridiculous it is to carry this kind of water for a man for being nice. He's only a good representative if he's a nice person *and he wins*, and so far the actual evidence for him being a nice person involves exchanging pleasantries and not getting put on probation or covering for rapists. No one deserves credit for doing the things they should have done in the first place. That bar isn't just low, it's subterranean. I also don't appreciate my comments being edited. They take on an entirely different tone when you remove the lines that were supposed to underscore that this is a basketball coach and an average person who, at any other school or at any comparable competence in any real world occupation, would have appropriately been labeled a failure and fired by now. The only reason that isn't the case now is that, by the grace of God and the ineptitude of Tom Brennan, he's somehow still the coach here. The fact that these observations offend sensibilities speaks more to his body of work at La Salle than the sharpness of my tongue.
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Post by durenduren on Oct 15, 2017 13:48:58 GMT -5
This is out of bounds. He's as perfect as a representative as you could have ever hoped for in a coach. He cares about and graduates his kids. He seems to be a pretty great mentor for these boys.
I'm still not going advocate for his coaching record or continuing his tenure, but the man has earned respect and dignity. I don't give a damn where he lives and all that other crap, but give him the respect he treated our players, fans, and community with.
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Post by SICguy84 on Oct 15, 2017 14:07:21 GMT -5
This is out of bounds. He's as perfect as a representative as you could have ever hoped for in a coach. He cares about and graduates his kids. He seems to be a pretty great mentor for these boys. I'm still not going advocate for his coaching record or continuing his tenure, but the man has earned respect and dignity. I don't give a damn where he lives and all that other crap, but give him the respect he treated our players, fans, and community with. Agreed, DurenDuren. One caveat: The in-game antics and tantrums are beneath the school and program. We've grown accustomed to the outbursts, but the actions run counter to the gentlemanly nature of LaSallians.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Oct 15, 2017 15:54:22 GMT -5
Fjord, what was your first year of caring about La Salle? I’m guessing that has something to do with the double-down above.
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Post by durenduren on Oct 15, 2017 17:21:21 GMT -5
This is out of bounds. He's as perfect as a representative as you could have ever hoped for in a coach. He cares about and graduates his kids. He seems to be a pretty great mentor for these boys. I'm still not going advocate for his coaching record or continuing his tenure, but the man has earned respect and dignity. I don't give a damn where he lives and all that other crap, but give him the respect he treated our players, fans, and community with. Agreed, DurenDuren. One caveat: The in-game antics and tantrums are beneath the school and program. We've grown accustomed to the outbursts, but the actions run counter to the gentlemanly nature of LaSallians. And I'm not saying his coaching product is worthy of defense, because I wouldn't touch that with a ten-foot pole. But I don't think we should be talking about how La Salle made him a millionaire, it's not like the guy hasn't been trying...
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