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Post by lasalle89 on Feb 2, 2018 15:16:59 GMT -5
What I dont understand is... Why,as a University, are we wasting time and money hiring a consultant firm to figure out if our athletics should drop to D3 or realigned in a weaker conference? When we should be putting all our resources into finding a GREAT BASKETBALL HEAD COACH (who will make us competitive in the a10). If La Salle dedicates itselt and fully commits to hiring this coach and after a few years it doesnt work. Then we need to rethink our position in the A10. What scares me, is that we are going to drop conferences and Doc is still going to be here. If not why drop conferences with a new coach? This and we should also be coming up with a plan with how to become competitive in the Atlantic 10. At some point LaSalle has to shit or get off the pot. Instead of pushing we are formulating an exit plan.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 15:20:44 GMT -5
So the same group that concedes a Villanova assistant with a La Salle connection and no prior HC experience may actually pass if offered presents a solution of “get a great coach who wins a lot”? This is why we have consultants.
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Post by a10 on Feb 2, 2018 15:36:42 GMT -5
Let me also say, I don't foresee a scenario right now where we drop Conferences absent any other circumstances. What I could see is 3-5 years from now and there's another Conference shake-up throughout the country (probably starting with something relating to football and filtering down) and suddenly we have to make that choice. I was thinking the same thing. I was concerned that was going to happen when we lost Xavier and Butler, that another trend toward blowing up established leagues was in the works. But, it seems like all of the members are satisfied with the current state of the Atlantic 10, there's no hands-down dominant school year-after-year in Men's Basketball, so it's competitive. It's up to La Salle to make itself competitive.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 2, 2018 15:41:45 GMT -5
What I dont understand is... Why,as a University, are we wasting time and money hiring a consultant firm to figure out if our athletics should drop to D3 or realigned in a weaker conference? When we should be putting all our resources into finding a GREAT BASKETBALL HEAD COACH (who will make us competitive in the a10). If La Salle dedicates itselt and fully commits to hiring this coach and after a few years it doesnt work. Then we need to rethink our position in the A10. What scares me, is that we are going to drop conferences and Doc is still going to be here. If not why drop conferences with a new coach? This and we should also be coming up with a plan with how to become competitive in the Atlantic 10. At some point LaSalle has to shit or get off the pot. Instead of pushing we are formulating an exit plan. How do you search for a new coach when you currently have a coach? Let the season play out, and the other hand will fall. He's under contact, we likely can't responsibly afford to buy him out, and I don't think we should buy him out for that matter - it would be wasted money spent to prove a point during a wasted season. But things will happen as soon as the seasons over, I'm very confident in that. In the meantime, make Athletics healthy as a whole. The coaching issue is much smaller than that, but will still be addressed. No reason to wait to fix Athletics.
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hideaway
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Post by hideaway on Feb 2, 2018 18:06:54 GMT -5
What I dont understand is... Why,as a University, are we wasting time and money hiring a consultant firm to figure out if our athletics should drop to D3 or realigned in a weaker conference? When we should be putting all our resources into finding a GREAT BASKETBALL HEAD COACH (who will make us competitive in the a10). If La Salle dedicates itselt and fully commits to hiring this coach and after a few years it doesnt work. Then we need to rethink our position in the A10. What scares me, is that we are going to drop conferences and Doc is still going to be here. If not why drop conferences with a new coach? Would you like to pay for the buyout? Please feel free to call the AD.
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Post by lasalle89 on Feb 2, 2018 18:13:10 GMT -5
How many more years does G have on his contract? I can live with him finishing out his contract but we will lose at least one year of recruiting.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 2, 2018 19:02:12 GMT -5
Always found the 'new coach' effect to be interesting. Not only do you get to see what a different coach can do with some of the former coach's players - both good and bad - to give a different insight on the former coach's ability, but the departure of players and the defection of recruits can create unique opportunities and jump-start the future. It doesn't always have to be a negative.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 19:41:11 GMT -5
I had like seven posts I wanted to quote, but I'll just put my thoughts alone.
I don't like the move down. Never have. It has far reaching implications beyond just "we can possibly win the basketball league." You no longer get any athlete in any sport that can compete at a top level. Sean Quigley, an NCAA All-American and near Olympic Qualifier, doesn't come to La Salle if they're in the MAAC. The Women's Soccer team isn't recognized as highly, even if they win the MAAC. The Sweet 16 year NEVER HAPPENS. La Salle becomes a dot on the mid-major map instead of a member of a high-mid-major conference.
Here is my argument for why this is short-sighted. As far as men's and women's basketball, we don't have a large enough sample size in the A10. For the men, we had Speedy to start to open the tenure in the A10 and he stuck around too long. Billy Hahn was cut short and, while he is despised here, he made an A10 semifinal and recruited a strong roster of playrs. And then we have G who is going on 13 full years and hasn't sniffed an A10 championship (let alone an A10 semifinal).
Because of that transition, that scandal and a coach that was extremely unsuccessful in A10 tournament play, we don't know what La Salle can do at this level.
Now if you bring another coach in and they don't show that they could possibly win an A10 tournament in five years, fine. Let's have that discussion. What this screams of though is the administration looking for ways to be successful without spending money. If this is a cost-cutting decision, they're taking the easy way out. As opposed to actually taking a chance at being successful in the A10...fixing your facility issue...I'm concerned that La Salle is moving the goalposts.
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Post by manayunk53 on Feb 2, 2018 19:52:43 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see after the recent defections and adding Davidson. I read this as "recent defecations." I had to go back a couple times because it tripped me up, but I ended up realizing that it would kind of work that way too, on many levels. Slightly crude, though.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 2, 2018 20:07:52 GMT -5
I had like seven posts I wanted to quote, but I'll just put my thoughts alone. I don't like the move down. Never have. It has far reaching implications beyond just "we can possibly win the basketball league." You no longer get any athlete in any sport that can compete at a top level. Sean Quigley, an NCAA All-American and near Olympic Qualifier, doesn't come to La Salle if they're in the MAAC. The Women's Soccer team isn't recognized as highly, even if they win the MAAC. The Sweet 16 year NEVER HAPPENS. La Salle becomes a dot on the mid-major map instead of a member of a high-mid-major conference. Here is my argument for why this is short-sighted. As far as men's and women's basketball, we don't have a large enough sample size in the A10. For the men, we had Speedy to start to open the tenure in the A10 and he stuck around too long. Billy Hahn was cut short and, while he is despised here, he made an A10 semifinal and recruited a strong roster of playrs. And then we have G who is going on 13 full years and hasn't sniffed an A10 championship (let alone an A10 semifinal). Because of that transition, that scandal and a coach that was extremely unsuccessful in A10 tournament play, we don't know what La Salle can do at this level. Now if you bring another coach in and they don't show that they could possibly win an A10 tournament in five years, fine. Let's have that discussion. What this screams of though is the administration looking for ways to be successful without spending money. If this is a cost-cutting decision, they're taking the easy way out. As opposed to actually taking a chance at being successful in the A10...fixing your facility issue...I'm concerned that La Salle is moving the goalposts. NPOA
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Post by durenduren on Feb 2, 2018 20:09:33 GMT -5
Because of that transition, that scandal and a coach that was extremely unsuccessful in A10 tournament play, we don't know what La Salle can do at this level. Now if you bring another coach in and they don't show that they could possibly win an A10 tournament in five years, fine. Let's have that discussion. Maybe, that's an interesting take. But it also doesn't change that La Salle is still underfunding compared to our peers, and is still one of the most difficult coaching gigs in the A10. Not diminishing your points, just building on them.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 2, 2018 20:21:18 GMT -5
I don’t have the time or energy to find it but aren’t the NCAA funding levels public info? Last time I remember seeing it we were not necessarily near the bottom of the league.
Even if we went to #1 in annual funding, the facility would limit the ability to succeed. That’s a fact.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 2, 2018 20:23:30 GMT -5
Because of that transition, that scandal and a coach that was extremely unsuccessful in A10 tournament play, we don't know what La Salle can do at this level. Now if you bring another coach in and they don't show that they could possibly win an A10 tournament in five years, fine. Let's have that discussion. Maybe, that's an interesting take. But it also doesn't change that La Salle is still underfunding compared to our peers, and is still one of the most difficult coaching gigs in the A10. Not diminishing your points, just building on them. I don't think we're underfunding the program at all. We're mid-pack in the A10 as far as funding goes. Our issues are two-fold, facilities and coaching.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 20:24:37 GMT -5
All of these debates would be 100x easier if we could make a list of 10 potential head coaches and then find out if they'd accept the job and on what terms.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 2, 2018 20:35:52 GMT -5
So the same group that concedes a Villanova assistant with a La Salle connection and no prior HC experience may actually pass if offered presents a solution of “get a great coach who wins a lot”? This is why we have consultants. One poster did make that opinion about Ashley Howard, but I don't know if it factual. It would be similar to me implying that Dino Gaudio wants to get back into coaching and would entertain La Salle. We don't know that to be true.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 21:01:53 GMT -5
Because of that transition, that scandal and a coach that was extremely unsuccessful in A10 tournament play, we don't know what La Salle can do at this level. Now if you bring another coach in and they don't show that they could possibly win an A10 tournament in five years, fine. Let's have that discussion. Maybe, that's an interesting take. But it also doesn't change that La Salle is still underfunding compared to our peers, and is still one of the most difficult coaching gigs in the A10. Not diminishing your points, just building on them. 100%. You need to spend money to make money. And they've never spent money.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 21:06:30 GMT -5
All of these debates would be 100x easier if we could make a list of 10 potential head coaches and then find out if they'd accept the job and on what terms. Or you offer Ashley Howard. Or Will Bailey. Or any of the other hundred assistant coaches that are young and hungry. And if it doesn't work out, you move on. Come on man. You can't just keep saying "Well the grass isn't always greener." We get it. The next hire could suck. But your argument gets more foolish with each game that passes.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 21:07:01 GMT -5
One poster did make that opinion about Ashley Howard, but I don't know if it factual. It would be similar to me implying that Dino Gaudio wants to get back into coaching and would entertain La Salle. We don't know that to be true. This is fair, but I happen to agree with the poster that a young major conference coach would be wary of the job as it currently stands.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 21:08:13 GMT -5
Or you offer Ashley Howard. Or Will Bailey. Or any of the other hundred assistant coaches that are young and hungry. And if it doesn't work out, you move on. Come on man. You can't just keep saying "Well the grass isn't always greener." We get it. The next hire could suck. But your argument gets more foolish with each game that passes. I don’t have an argument. I said after (or during?) last year whatever happens happens now.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 21:30:29 GMT -5
Or you offer Ashley Howard. Or Will Bailey. Or any of the other hundred assistant coaches that are young and hungry. And if it doesn't work out, you move on. Come on man. You can't just keep saying "Well the grass isn't always greener." We get it. The next hire could suck. But your argument gets more foolish with each game that passes. I don’t have an argument. I said after (or during?) last year whatever happens happens now. So below is just witty banter? All of these debates would be 100x easier if we could make a list of 10 potential head coaches and then find out if they'd accept the job and on what terms.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 22:07:49 GMT -5
It’s exactly what I said? If you say “Jeff Capel would be all in”, you fire Giannini. If you say “Howard wouldn’t be interested and you’re going to have a lot of trouble enticing anyone with serious major conference aspirations so anyone you get is someone VCU would never consider”, you hold.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 22:09:32 GMT -5
It’s exactly what I said? If you say “Jeff Capel would be all in”, you fire Giannini. If you say “Howard wouldn’t be interested and you’re going to have a lot of trouble enticing anyone with serious major conference aspirations so anyone you get is someone VCU would never consider”, you hold. And I think you're wrong. To assume that you can't find a viable candidate is to accept defeat. Might as well just move to the MAAC.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 22:13:11 GMT -5
You’re not at all engaging with what I actually said.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 22:25:04 GMT -5
You’re not at all engaging with what I actually said. I don't understand your argument, at all.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 2, 2018 22:28:53 GMT -5
I just spelled out the two polar sides to a new coach and earlier said “this would be a lot easier if we could pick 10 coaches and knew what they’d say”.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 2, 2018 22:58:34 GMT -5
Maybe, that's an interesting take. But it also doesn't change that La Salle is still underfunding compared to our peers, and is still one of the most difficult coaching gigs in the A10. Not diminishing your points, just building on them. I don't think we're underfunding the program at all. We're mid-pack in the A10 as far as funding goes. Our issues are two-fold, facilities and coaching. I believe the latest data has funding the basketball program by over $2mil less than SJU. Not that they're the be-all, end-all but I think that's pretty telling. Can't link any source there, but that's from a pretty solid source.
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Post by talkinbball on Feb 3, 2018 11:38:46 GMT -5
You can change coaches all you want but any discussion of the long term future of La Salle basketball that doesn't begin with what, if anything, can/should be done about the gym is just kicking the can down the road. Any consultant they hire that doesn't confront them with that is just stealing money. Within 3 years of hiring a new coach (maybe before) you can cut and paste this thread and just update the dates.
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louth
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Post by louth on Feb 3, 2018 11:46:57 GMT -5
Personally, I want to be associated with fellow conference members academically, I.e. GW, UMass, Richmond, Davidson, etal. St. Peter’s, Siena, Iona? Check the academic ratings of the conferences, the MAAC is a lowly ranked academic conference, the A10 is well rated. The Patriot probably would not accept us as LSU is not up to their academic and endowment standards, Colonial has high academic ratings but is a step below A10 in athletics except in football. There will be a conference shake out coming down the road, football vs no football. The A10 is positioned well for us. La Salle is digging out of 25 years of administration mismanagement. If the current administration continues rebuilding enrollment, and builds the fund raising, Trumark money and partnership as an example, gets the right academic, meaningful programs, we will be well positioned in the A10.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 17:25:01 GMT -5
All of these debates would be 100x easier if we could make a list of 10 potential head coaches and then find out if they'd accept the job and on what terms. Boo. It is not to be hashed out on a message board. It happens with dollars committed... and it happens with real commitment not sitting on your hands and making a "statement" That's a blanket comment not meant at you specifically
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 4, 2018 13:58:25 GMT -5
Let me also say, I don't foresee a scenario right now where we drop Conferences absent any other circumstances. What I could see is 3-5 years from now and there's another Conference shake-up throughout the country (probably starting with something relating to football and filtering down) and suddenly we have to make that choice. I think the GOR expires in 2022, Big 12 could no longer exist by that time. With the Power 5 conferences expanding to 20+ conference games, the $ games will start to disappear. When that happens all the conferences will shrink to 1 bid conferences outside of the Power 5. I envision Big East expanding coast to coast, I can imagine VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, and maybe Davidson joining a bigger conference such as the Big East. UMass going to FBS power conference. The window is shutting on mid-majors and especially the little conferences. By the way, this "rumor" is all over, caught on like wildfire on another site, 18 pages worth; www.csnbbs.com/forum-637.htmlThat is great, not the publicity of it, but the fact that we could spark something of magnitude on this board that will get people's attention. At times, I think this board is dwindling participation wise, but maybe the 40 of us do hold some weight. Silver linings.
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