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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 12:34:03 GMT -5
It's been interesting to read the back and forth on this topic. I think it makes a lot of sense for the administration to figure out what it wants to be in sports. Should we upgrade our facilities and compete better? Can we afford to do so and would it give us a good return on investment? Should we look at going in a different direction? These are all legitimate questions and the administration is smart to be looking at all of the options to do what is best for the long term.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 12:48:25 GMT -5
La Salle's first move needs to be a change at Coaching Position. Let's see if some one new can come here and jump start our program with our facility limitations. If that doesn't work. The university's next step should be moving down to a conference like the MAAC. Where hopefully we build a conference dominance amongst schools more similar to us. If you're hoping for a prayer coaching move, you're already admitting the infrastructure is the problem. To me, its a lot more simple than hiring a coach and crossing your fingers, you decide now or soon if you're investing in the program. If you are, you tread water until you do. If you aren't, you start to look down below for the best upside landing spot.
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Post by 23won on Jan 29, 2018 12:56:24 GMT -5
I'll add that there are two things that need attention faster than thinking about a new league, which is a terrible idea.
1) Near term - get students in the seats this semester! Ditch the pizza giveaway and have a real giveaway at the 4:00 first half mark and with 4:00 left in the game. $1,000 off room and board for a half court make (at 4:00 in) and then $2,000 off room and board for a 3/4 court make (with 4:00 left). Random draw for one person in attendance. Need to get students loud and in seats. The probability is not great that the school "loses money" and there is a huge upside in attendance, noise and Ws.
2) Renegotiate the balance of G's deal asap or no later than at season's end, to reduce base and make the remainder of the contract obligation performance driven and if he doesn't accept, start an active search immediately/asap.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 12:59:43 GMT -5
Regardling the A-10 losing bids, I see that as far more circumstance than the A-10 doing something inherently wrong. If you assume the major conferences are the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, SEC plus the former Big East(s), they've gone from 73 members in 2008 to 87 members this year. That includes us losing Xavier and Temple to them. Adding VCU and Davidson is nice (as was having Butler pass through), but its not the same level of program sitting atop the conference.
Sooooooo ... if you think the A-10 is fading into a perpetual one or two bid conference, why wouldn't you want us dropping down into one with other schools at our size and investment level? Wouldn't that be the smart thing for increasing bid odds?
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 29, 2018 13:12:47 GMT -5
And Gonzaga. Their situation somewhat mirrors some things happening with us: “The school was in real trouble" was the assessment of longtime benefactor Jack McCann in 1998.
Asked to join the board of trustees that year, the Gonzaga graduate discovered his alma mater was falling apart, operating at a deficit for several years, the school’s credit rating plummeting, the endowment slipping and administrators forced to slash budgets simply to pay the bills.
The small, Catholic, private and enrollment-reliant school welcomed a bottoming-out freshman class of 550 students, continuing a dismal trend of shrinking enrollment that saw the school’s undergraduate population dip from 4,176 in 1990 to 2,791 just eight years later.
Staring at a $1 million deficit -- no small sum for a school of its size -- university administrators eliminated 30 positions and laid off five more employees. There was even talk of reducing the basketball staff, the board discussing eliminating one full-time position that would have cost Bill Grier his job. A small group of faculty went so far as to suggest the university consider abandoning Division I athletics altogether.www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/119205/how-the-basketball-program-helped-gonzaga-university-flourish How about the Gaels of ( Christian Brothers' ) Saint Mary's College of California ( Moraga, CA ) ? www.stmarys-ca.edu/about-smc/facts-figures www.smcgaels.comWhile we're at it, how about us reviewing / comparing the torpid leadership, fiscal management and overall growth of La Salle University during the past 30 years or so ( prior to the current President and Administration ) to that of all five of the other Christian Brothers Colleges and Universities in the United States during this same time period ? : www.lasallian.info/lasallian-education/colleges-universities
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 13:14:04 GMT -5
2) Renegotiate the balance of G's deal asap or no later than at season's end, to reduce base and make the remainder of the contract obligation performance driven and if he doesn't accept, start an active search immediately/asap. And assuming he has a buyout, what's the incentive for him to renegotiate?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 29, 2018 13:14:42 GMT -5
Regardling the A-10 losing bids, I see that as far more circumstance than the A-10 doing something inherently wrong. If you assume the major conferences are the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, SEC plus the former Big East(s), they've gone from 73 members in 2008 to 87 members this year. That includes us losing Xavier and Temple to them. Adding VCU and Davidson is nice (as was having Butler pass through), but its not the same level of program sitting atop the conference. Sooooooo ... if you think the A-10 is fading into a perpetual one or two bid conference, why wouldn't you want us dropping down into one with other schools at our size and investment level? Wouldn't that be the smart thing for increasing bid odds? This. A-10 is probably going to be a perennially 2-bid lead if not slightly less than two bids.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 29, 2018 13:15:31 GMT -5
2) Renegotiate the balance of G's deal asap or no later than at season's end, to reduce base and make the remainder of the contract obligation performance driven and if he doesn't accept, start an active search immediately/asap. And assuming he has a buyout, what's the incentive for him to renegotiate? And this isn't how things work.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 14:25:43 GMT -5
This. A-10 is probably going to be a perennially 2-bid lead if not slightly less than two bids. So then what's the reason to dig in over a move?
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Post by coqui900 on Jan 29, 2018 14:33:22 GMT -5
CAA is largely a FCS football conference. Only one school (Charleston) doesn't have football. Only two schools have enrollments under 10K. It's mostly southern, aside from Delaware and Hofstra. Hard pass and not a good fit.
The A-10 and MAAC are our best fits.
Also: We are competitive in the A-10. There is a lot of fluctuation in the A-10. URI wasn't much for a long time and they are a flagship. St. Louis was an actual Final Four caliber team and are non-entities right now. It's just a yo-yo of a conference. Some teams are consistently at the top (Dayton, VCU) but they even have down years. Duquesne is typically a doormat but they're having an okay year.
It's a very fluid conference. We do compete in it. We need more realistic expectations. We will not place Top 5 in this conference every year. We will sporadically, just like everyone else.
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Post by calsufan on Jan 29, 2018 14:33:31 GMT -5
Regardling the A-10 losing bids, I see that as far more circumstance than the A-10 doing something inherently wrong. If you assume the major conferences are the ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 10, SEC plus the former Big East(s), they've gone from 73 members in 2008 to 87 members this year. That includes us losing Xavier and Temple to them. Adding VCU and Davidson is nice (as was having Butler pass through), but its not the same level of program sitting atop the conference. Sooooooo ... if you think the A-10 is fading into a perpetual one or two bid conference, why wouldn't you want us dropping down into one with other schools at our size and investment level? Wouldn't that be the smart thing for increasing bid odds? If I'm not mistaken, our investment level in men's basketball is more or less middle of the pack for the A-10. This excludes the facility. Why would we want to move down? There's less revenue and our recruits skill levels would drop. We would sink to the level of a lesser league, talent wise. After being in the A10, fans would see this as a clear drop down and the sparse crowds would become even sparser seeing us play teams like St. Pete's, Fairfield or Canisius. What are the advantages of dropping down?
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Post by durenduren on Jan 29, 2018 14:38:40 GMT -5
Because some people love to watch the world burn - under the premise that we go to the MAAC, is Giannini a good coach at that level? Do we retain him? Obviously, logic says a mediocre coach is mediocre regardless of conference, but his ability to recruit at an above-average level could be a difference maker in the MAAC. Plus, he'd still have the only doctorate in the conference.
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Post by 23won on Jan 29, 2018 14:43:46 GMT -5
D, it transforms the long-term nature of the deal and puts skin in the game currently and for whatever remaining period is left on the deal. If you do nothing in reaction to a buyout clause fear, then you've lost the battle and conceded a loss to what we have had since '13 -- declining mediocrity with intermittent total failure. I'm looking for something to change the dynamic (or lack thereof).
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 14:59:45 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, our investment level in men's basketball is more or less middle of the pack for the A-10. This excludes the facility. Isn't this like saying "we pay the same property taxes, but their house is worth 5x more than mine"?
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 15:01:22 GMT -5
D, it transforms the long-term nature of the deal and puts skin in the game currently and for whatever remaining period is left on the deal. If you do nothing in reaction to a buyout clause fear, then you've lost the battle and conceded a loss to what we have had since '13 -- declining mediocrity with intermittent total failure. I'm looking for something to change the dynamic (or lack thereof). And I'm asking why would Giannini do this any more than you'd voluntarily convert 50% of your salary into performance bonus because your company isn't happy with their year-end numbers?
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Post by talkinbball on Jan 29, 2018 15:16:07 GMT -5
I'm absolutely not fine with a move to a small time conference. I am shocked that some on here are willing to swallow that bitter pill and confirm the worst sentiments of the fans of other Big 5 schools. Does anyone else find it beyond depressing that 5 years removed from the Southwest Philly Floater there is serious discussions about this? Jesus Christ, at least try and bail out before abandoning ship. Being a fan of this team is like watching a self destructive family member fumble over and over again when they have the tools to better themselves. While I don't disagree with this concept just curious as to exactly what are these "tools to better themselves" that we have. And, even if the 25 or so regular posters to the board increased their contributions exactly how much money do we think that would raise? While, like most others, I would regret having to move to a lower conference I am definitely tired of the status quo. And, to think any coach would do what is being proposed here is absurd.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 29, 2018 15:24:59 GMT -5
This. A-10 is probably going to be a perennially 2-bid lead if not slightly less than two bids. So then what's the reason to dig in over a move? Because in the A10, we'll be able to win some games with the talent we have.
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Post by calsufan on Jan 29, 2018 15:25:53 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, our investment level in men's basketball is more or less middle of the pack for the A-10. This excludes the facility. Isn't this like saying "we pay the same property taxes, but their house is worth 5x more than mine"? No. And you didn't answer my question. You just threw out another question. Based on everything I said, why is dropping down a good thing?
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hideaway
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Post by hideaway on Jan 29, 2018 15:41:58 GMT -5
I absolutely love the A10 as a conference and I have loved La Salle's move into that conference. But I also love college basketball. After all of these years of seeing small crowds even when the product on the court is good (this years product isn't great), I have become convinced that La Salle just happens to have mostly apathetic students, mostly apathetic alumni and mostly apathetic fans overall. I can't blame marketing efforts, school administrators, coaches or anyone else. For many of the last ten years La Salle has had a top 100 type of program where you can go watch other top 100 programs or better. For an extremely low amount of money, you can get seats in an arena where there is not really a bad seat in the house to see a high level of basketball. Pay a pretty small donation, and you can get a chair back pretty close to the court. There are games where I show up against pretty well known opponents and crowds are tiny. We can't fill up a tiny arena, why build a bigger one? And for those of you who keep saying let's have the administrators look at building a new arena, do you really think those discussions haven't been had (a lot)? Almost EVERY major donor has been approached on this topic. Yes we have the Glazer money but that is a DROP in the bucket. Anyone have another 50 mil to put towards an arena to replace the current one with great available seats that nobody buys? We can all dream but the reality is for every Xavier and Gonzoga, there are dozens of programs with great arenas whose teams stink. So, do I think you'll see a new arena, don't hold your breath. The a10 provides great hoops but does it provide us the best opportunity to get into the dance year in an year out? That is certainly VERY debatable. Again, as a big hoops fan, I love the a10 and hope we stay because I love watching the games against that competition. In terms of strategy for La Salle, I wouldn't be against a move down in conference because I think the press you get from going to the tournament is worth millions and I am now pretty convinced we'd have a higher chance of going there more often in a slightly easier conference. At large bids are now extremely difficult to get in a non-power conference. And in terms of recruiting students, high school students generally don't give a rats a$$ is you are in the a10 or something slightly less. Big East, ACC, SEC, sure. Non power conference, doesn't really matter that much. Getting into the tournament matters to these high school students A LOT. The free advertising from it is REDICULOUS. See many examples...Florida Gulf Coast...shit conference. Got into the dance, pulled a big upset, take a look at their admission rates over last 5 years. School exploded. Getting into the dance is the most important thing. It pains me to say but I think a slightly lower conference increases that chance.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 29, 2018 15:49:24 GMT -5
See many examples...Florida Gulf Coast...shit conference. Their entire campus is funded with agriculture money (I think) to the tune of tens of millions of dollars.
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hideaway
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Post by hideaway on Jan 29, 2018 16:03:21 GMT -5
See many examples...Florida Gulf Coast...shit conference. Their entire campus is funded with agriculture money (I think) to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. Please explain the relevance to the acceleration in applications they have received from going to the dance from a bad conference.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 16:32:52 GMT -5
No. And you didn't answer my question. You just threw out another question. Based on everything I said, why is dropping down a good thing? I guess I'm making some assumptions here. I've gotten the impression from more or less everyone here that the binary assessment of each season's success is "did we make the/a tournament". If the postseason is the only goal AND we think the A-10 is trending towards a conference champ or conference champ + 1 league AND we don't plan for any change in program investment*, then what's the best way to reach that absolute goal of the postseason? At some point its "do we want to be a top 1/3 team always in the mix for the auto-bid in the _______ or do we care more about being a member of the A-10". We can't keep the same inputs and just demand a better output. The mini-firestorm here over the consultants' report, whatever the conclusion and even whatever the facts, should atleast bold and highlight one thing: It wasn't unrealistic enough to simply dismiss. That wouldn't happen at Dayton or VCU. It probably wouldn't happen at most universities in the A-10, so maybe its time to really take a look at the issue. Change the arena and keep Giannini and maintain results and the consultants say "fire your coach". Change Giannini and keep the arena and the same options would be presented. Like I said before, I see this as a good thing, especially relative to the prior admin's perpetual status quo. * This is the major caveat. Obviously my preferred option would be a change in investment to eliminate our competitive disadvantages where we stay and really compete in the A-10. If that's an option, scratch all the other talk. If its not, then the reasonable next step is analyzing what's best for the program long-term.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 16:36:39 GMT -5
Look at Holy Cross. They are irrelevant and at one time was a great MBB and Athletic program. Irrelevant how? Since we moved to the A-10, Holy Cross has been to the tournament 5 times. Are we more relevant than they are because of the one run? Is Fordham more relevant than them just by being in the A-10?
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 29, 2018 16:51:30 GMT -5
Their entire campus ( FGCU ) is funded with agriculture money (I think) to the tune of tens of millions of dollars. Please explain the relevance to the acceleration in applications they have received from going to the dance from a bad conference. Attachment Deleted [ Amanda Marcum Enfield ]
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 29, 2018 17:06:31 GMT -5
Please explain the relevance to the acceleration in applications they have received from going to the dance from a bad conference. View AttachmentThis is an answer. I didn’t understand the question,
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hideaway
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Post by hideaway on Jan 29, 2018 17:10:55 GMT -5
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Post by las71 on Jan 29, 2018 17:46:31 GMT -5
The catch 22 for our program seems to be that we need to win to fill the seats but can't win with the current arena. Given the lackluster interest of students and alums combined with some difficult financial times, I doubt that there is much interest in building a new arena. Given our history in the A10, it's hard to believe we can improve without major upgrades which don't seem to be forthcoming. I can't see a buyout for G simply because the administrators can't see that as a priority under our present financial circumstances. While many choose to blame G for our mediocrity, Speedy who is a local coaching legend (deservedly so) was unsuccessful in the A10 as well. Two different type of coaches both with long histories in coaching have not succeeded here. I just don't know where we go from here. I suspect when G's contract is up, we will get a new coach barring a dramatic improvement. My concern here is when was our last great hire in mens basketball. How many of our head coaches have moved up from La Salle. My fear is that without a total commitment we are what we are.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 29, 2018 18:00:42 GMT -5
I have blasted McGlade and the quality of the A10 over the last 2 years. However, a 2 year down cycle does not make it a one bid conference, or a plus one conference.
We were 1 bid in 2002, and again in 2005. Unless someone else besides URI in DC this year (I think it's in DC this year) the A10 will be one bid.
I will say this as clear and loud as I can. GO BACK TO A FUCKING 16 GAME LEAGUE SCHEDULE. STOP WITH THE TRAVELING CARNIVAL THAT IS THE CONFERENCE TOURNAMENT.
If the next 3 years mirror the last 2 years, than we can discuss the viability of the "new A10."
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 29, 2018 18:16:30 GMT -5
But like I said above, the issue of the major conferences growing almost 20% in a decade is an A-10 problem the A-10 can't fix on their own, if at all.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Jan 29, 2018 18:18:32 GMT -5
I absolutely love the A10 as a conference and I have loved La Salle's move into that conference. But I also love college basketball. After all of these years of seeing small crowds even when the product on the court is good (this years product isn't great), I have become convinced that La Salle just happens to have mostly apathetic students, mostly apathetic alumni and mostly apathetic fans overall. I can't blame marketing efforts, school administrators, coaches or anyone else. For many of the last ten years La Salle has had a top 100 type of program where you can go watch other top 100 programs or better. For an extremely low amount of money, you can get seats in an arena where there is not really a bad seat in the house to see a high level of basketball. Pay a pretty small donation, and you can get a chair back pretty close to the court. There are games where I show up against pretty well known opponents and crowds are tiny. We can't fill up a tiny arena, why build a bigger one? And for those of you who keep saying let's have the administrators look at building a new arena, do you really think those discussions haven't been had (a lot)? Almost EVERY major donor has been approached on this topic. Yes we have the Glazer money but that is a DROP in the bucket. Anyone have another 50 mil to put towards an arena to replace the current one with great available seats that nobody buys? We can all dream but the reality is for every Xavier and Gonzoga, there are dozens of programs with great arenas whose teams stink. So, do I think you'll see a new arena, don't hold your breath. The a10 provides great hoops but does it provide us the best opportunity to get into the dance year in an year out? That is certainly VERY debatable. Again, as a big hoops fan, I love the a10 and hope we stay because I love watching the games against that competition. In terms of strategy for La Salle, I wouldn't be against a move down in conference because I think the press you get from going to the tournament is worth millions and I am now pretty convinced we'd have a higher chance of going there more often in a slightly easier conference. At large bids are now extremely difficult to get in a non-power conference. And in terms of recruiting students, high school students generally don't give a rats a$$ is you are in the a10 or something slightly less. Big East, ACC, SEC, sure. Non power conference, doesn't really matter that much. Getting into the tournament matters to these high school students A LOT. The free advertising from it is REDICULOUS. See many examples...Florida Gulf Coast...shit conference. Got into the dance, pulled a big upset, take a look at their admission rates over last 5 years. School exploded. Getting into the dance is the most important thing. It pains me to say but I think a slightly lower conference increases that chance. I have posted since forever that some imagination could turn "the attic" into a strength. But I'm not gonna waste my breath again.
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