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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 27, 2018 10:20:43 GMT -5
SICguy84 NPOA. Ghost of moving the goalposts.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 27, 2018 10:22:01 GMT -5
Drexel hasn’t made the tournament since 1996. And it’s a false choice. There’s no guarantee La Salle would win a difference consistently. And there’s no guarantee that they can’t win consistently at the A10 level. There aren’t enough variables that have been tested. Except for a history of winning a lot in lower conferences and >20 years in the A-10 that most people either haven't cared about or can't ever stop whining about. But, and you’d be the first to tell me this, you can’t discount 2013. That never happens to lower conference La Salle. Also, and I’m younger so correct me if I’m wrong, but the discrepancy between low/mid and high is much greater than in 1990.
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Post by jellybean on Jan 27, 2018 10:23:17 GMT -5
Here is a section from the 5 year Strategic Plan (Momentum 2020) with regards to Athetics and both Basketball programs.
Additionally, this plan will recognize our recreational and NCAA Division I Athletics programs as critical drivers of student experience and university success. We will commit to establishing an Athletics program that is right-sized, a model of academic excellence for student-athletes who are students first, and that strengthens a proud La Salle tradition of winning and succeeding in NCAA regional and national competitions. Further, we will undertake a close examination of La Salle’s premier sports, Men’s and Women’s Division I Basketball, with a view to ensuring that our approach to these sports aligns with strategic priorities.
Improve our performance record in NCAA conference championships across all sports, paying particular attention to identifying the role to be played by Men’s and Women’s basketball in advancing La Salle’s strategic priorities;
It's been said before but I think is worth mentioning. Today's MAAC is not the same landscape as 1985-1990. You are not getting a Jack Clark. You might get the Johnson kid from Bonner who is going to Rider. You are not getting a BJ Johnson as a transfer. You go to the MAAC then you must win the conference tournament to get to the NCAA's where you will be a sacrificial lamb as a 14-16 seed. Will need to win 25 games to get NIT bid if you get beat in the MAAC tournament.
I certainly hope that the school has a Town Hall where alums and friends of the school can voice their opinion.
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Post by las71 on Jan 27, 2018 10:25:52 GMT -5
While it seems that most if not all of us would prefer to remain in the A10, most if not all of us also agree that we cannot be successful without a new facility. It's easy to say build a new facility but I think the president and board recognize that our seemingly scant resources must be used in other areas. Many small Catholic liberal arts colleges are in economic trouble. Parents and students do not want to make the financial commitment for liberal arts degrees that they were willing to do in the past. The hard question being asked is can my child get a job coming out of college. La Salle like many schools seems to be re-evaluating everything as it struggles to move forward. It has re focused on it's nursing program and business school which are programs that offer employment opportunities. Technology seems to have lowered the value of a liberal arts degree and schools must face that fact. Author Thomas Friedman who is a peer to alums in my age group noted that when he was college aid one had to plan to fail because there were so many opportunities available but that today's students will suffer if they fail to plan. It's a sign of what is valued by families today in making college choices. I suspect that those responsible for making and keeping La Salle a viable option recognize the need to meet current students needs and demands. Would a better mens basketball program attract more interest. While it may lead to more applications, we still need to be able to convince prospective students that they will be able to get a job when they graduate. Some will point to Villanova's basketball success but we are not attracting the same type of student. Villanova has always attracted upper class catholic families while we have tended to be a school for first generation college students. The tuition reset met with some success despite our team having a poor season the year before the reset. I applaud the pres and board for their efforts in addressing the changing demographics and economic realities which small private colleges are facing. I believe we will remain a D1 school as I suspect those in charge will see a drop to d3 as a none too subtle sign that the school has borderline viability going forward which certainly won't help admissions. Unfortunately, I do not see how we can significantly increase funding for athletics until other areas are addressed.
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Post by big5explorer on Jan 27, 2018 10:35:19 GMT -5
Lets look at the conference change possibilities. Feel free to add any realistic ones I am missing:
1. Patriot. I’d actually be most excited for this move personally. As a University it would put us in a class of some very strong academic institutions. But this seems unrealistic to hope for. The conference already has 10 teams. They aren’t going to 11. And I don’t see why they would be interested in 12. Also, our facilities would still rank low compared to those of the other Patriot schools. Have you seen Lehigh’s indoor track and sports fields?
2. Colonial. Seems like a lateral move without any upside. The CAA is ranked just behind the A10 this year in conference strength for hoops. And why would LaSalle students care about playing any teams from VA, NC, and MD. We don’t typically draw many students from these states, and changing conferences wouldn’t likely improve that. There are no natural rivalries except maybe Delaware and Drexel for us. And is that who our rivals should be? This conference still means about the same amout of travel as the a10. Just seems like a step down for no upsides.
3. MAAC. Back to the future. A few upsides. Maybe less travel for teams. Teams drawing from areas many of our students are from. Occasional years of 2 teams making the NCAA. Past success for us. We were obviously at one point able to out-recruit other conference schools. BUT, we left that conference at one point for a reason. A return feels nomadic, and a struggle to find identity. Not sure if this would be positive for the longterm.
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Post by explorer88 on Jan 27, 2018 10:36:05 GMT -5
This story is gaining momentum and now being discussed among A-10 fans. Just terrible publicity.
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Post by talkinbball on Jan 27, 2018 10:36:33 GMT -5
Whatever is done, we are a victim of a self inflicted wound by building a gym that was 25 years outdated from the moment it was conceived. Thanks Speedy!
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Post by las71 on Jan 27, 2018 10:40:04 GMT -5
This story is gaining momentum and now being discussed among A-10 fans. Just terrible publicity. I think this is why we will remain d1
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Post by Happy Fortune on Jan 27, 2018 10:41:36 GMT -5
Way to stay ahead of it, La Salle! We needed a statement yesterday!
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Post by MisterD on Jan 27, 2018 10:41:48 GMT -5
But, and you’d be the first to tell me this, you can’t discount 2013. That never happens to lower conference La Salle. Sure, 2013 doesn't happen because we don't get that sort of roster in the CAA and we out-talented teams that year. But I also don't think there's any way we go 22 or whatever seasons with only one appearance. Its a matter of what the goal is here. With the caveat that I strongly hope we stay at the A-10 level, I think an outside consultant would absolutely look at us as sub-high-mid level based on facilities and investment. Any independent firm you hire who says "you guys are 90% there, just tweak this" is either incompetent or full of shit. Objectively, nothing in that first post doesn't make sense. However, I'd also hope they'd see the fact that we're already high-mid as a massive opportunity. You can't go to Drexel and advise them to get into the A-10 as a strategy but we're already there. Basketball can fund itself and more if its done right. This isn't meant to be an "I told you so", but this was always coming, I just thought it came with the next coach either not taking a step or taking a step back. Our current path is unsustainable in the A-10, its sustainable in the CAA. Our current path can be modified to be competitive in the A-10. There are about a million factors that go into this decision, not the least of which is "how confident are we that college sports exist in anything resembling the current model in a decade". A lot of "leaving the A-10 is quitting" is a massive oversimplification of the decision someone running THE UNIVERSITY and not the basketball program has to make. (D3 would be stupid.) Also, and I’m younger so correct me if I’m wrong, but the discrepancy between low/mid and high is much greater than in 1990. I'd guess early exits mean a higher percentage of top players can go to majors because top players spend less seasons overall.
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Post by SICguy84 on Jan 27, 2018 10:41:52 GMT -5
This story is gaining momentum and now being discussed among A-10 fans. Just terrible publicity. La Salle? No shame! Continue to marvel at the University's ability to generate (unwittingly) negative publicity. This thread should be somehow members only or deleted. Spreading like wildfire on social media. It is so embarrassing and counter productive. I mean D-3 really? Red herring to make the competitive conference realignment exploration more palatable by comparison.
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Post by Happy Fortune on Jan 27, 2018 10:48:22 GMT -5
Wait till the athletes enrolled see these rumors. Real morale booster.
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Post by coachd on Jan 27, 2018 10:50:20 GMT -5
La Salle has always lacked key leadership over the past 25 years. Unfortunately we have become a low profile local school whilst Villanova has become a national powerhouse. This is not only unacceptable but also humiliating to those of us who remember a competitive Big 5. It is up to us to force a culture change by demanding that the school develop a mission statement that all employees must follow. There are low level sports that need to be eliminated as these are a financial drain. Let's focus on making La Salle great again.
Hopefully G's contract expires after this season. If not, we need to negotiate to release him. We can't continue with the "aww shucks, if only I had done this" mentality. We need a coach who has energy and can run an uptempo division one offense and make in-game adjustments. I know most of us are not willing to go through the chance of a 20 loss season which we are closer to than a NIT bid!
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Post by big5explorer on Jan 27, 2018 11:17:29 GMT -5
This story is gaining momentum and now being discussed among A-10 fans. Just terrible publicity. La Salle? No shame! Continue to marvel at the University's ability to generate (unwittingly) negative publicity. This thread should be somehow members only or deleted. Spreading like wildfire on social media. It is so embarrassing and counter productive. I mean D-3 really? Red herring to make the competitive conference realignment exploration more palatable by comparison. The story is out. Hiding or deleting this thread isn’t going to change the story. The story is, from multiple reliable sources, the University has solicited consulting to look at their athletics situation. They are obviously open to and probably realistically looking at making a change in one direction or another. The possibility of changing conferences is a big story. If a meeting ended with D3 as a possible move, however unlikely, that is a HUGE story for a Big5 basketball team with a storied tradition. The horse is out of the barn. Would you rather this decision be pushed out to the alumni when finalized, without any alumni or former alumni athlete input? What is your worry? That a current player player or recruit might be upset? This story is about the financial, athletic, and probably academic direction of a major Philadelphia University. And it is out there for public speculation and debate, whether this thread exists or not.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 27, 2018 11:19:47 GMT -5
This story is gaining momentum and now being discussed among A-10 fans. Just terrible publicity. La Salle? No shame! Continue to marvel at the University's ability to generate (unwittingly) negative publicity. This thread should be somehow members only or deleted. Spreading like wildfire on social media. It is so embarrassing and counter productive. I mean D-3 really? Red herring to make the competitive conference realignment exploration more palatable by comparison. They can certainly put a statement out. We aren’t an arm of the university. Public perception falls on their marketing staff.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 27, 2018 11:21:09 GMT -5
The facilities (not JUST the basketball arena) are not on par with top level programs regardless of Division or conference. They need to be addressed regardless of making moves which the school seems to have their head in the sand about.
Practice and training facilities are desperately needed but also, the game day experience facility is not on par with other collegiate facilities.
I’m sure TrueMark Financial is thrilled to support an operation that is looking to downgrade itself. Also, terrific job so far managing the message!!
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 27, 2018 11:22:57 GMT -5
This is the kind of long term thinking I’m talking about, but it also starts building a fundraising base. This is why I'm OK with a lesser conference, although granted, that's not factoring in any TV revenue or tournament money sharing that some conferences do. But I think if we were in a conference we were competitive year-on-year (like the MAAC) and knew that we had a stronger chance to get there, there would be more excitement in February and march around 20th and Olney. La Salle has had exactly 4 winning conference records in 22 years of A10 play. In the MAAC, winning conference record every year and post-season (NCAA or NIT) every year. The MAAC has won 3 games in the NCAA tournament since 2004. Florida beat Manhattan in 2004, Siena won in 2008 and 2009. So those 3 games that we won in 2013, that's like 15 years worth of NCAA wins for the MAAC. At least A10 teams have the capability to make Elite 8's, and Final 4's. We just need a competent A10 commissioner.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 27, 2018 11:24:32 GMT -5
That’s a whole different conversation. I agree the A10s southern strategy is a failure.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 27, 2018 11:30:29 GMT -5
My issue with this. La Salle has NEVER solicited a donation for an athletics capital campaign but now says it can’t afford to compete with facilities at this level. Can’t “afford” but it hasn’t even TRIED to raise the funds. There’s $7 Million literally waiting to be INVESTED into the program that is going to die, but the school can’t afford to invest? Admittedly I don’t know the details to access those funds but how do you let something like that go to complete waste??
Give me a break.
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Post by jellybean on Jan 27, 2018 11:37:10 GMT -5
Glaser's money it has been reported here was closer to $3.5 million AND for a new structure ( pick a number $40 million or more) which needs to be matched.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 27, 2018 11:37:48 GMT -5
Here’s an idea, the 10% of the alumni base that supports 90% of the athletics funds, let’s really piss them off, that should really get the money flowing in!!
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 27, 2018 11:41:18 GMT -5
Glaser's money it has been reported here was closer to $3.5 million AND for a new structure ( pick a number $40 million or more) which needs to be matched. Brennan told me he had $7 MM to put toward a new arena, maybe he was using the matched funds in his statement or maybe no one told him but that’s where I got my # from. Only good things happen, maybe this speculation will spark an uprising from alums that leads to finally enhancing our programs not downgrading.
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Post by Happy Fortune on Jan 27, 2018 11:43:22 GMT -5
Lets look at the conference change possibilities. Feel free to add any realistic ones I am missing: 1. Patriot. I’d actually be most excited for this move personally. As a University it would put us in a class of some very strong academic institutions. But this seems unrealistic to hope for. The conference already has 10 teams. They aren’t going to 11. And I don’t see why they would be interested in 12. Also, our facilities would still rank low compared to those of the other Patriot schools. Have you seen Lehigh’s indoor track and sports fields? 2. Colonial. Seems like a lateral move without any upside. The CAA is ranked just behind the A10 this year in conference strength for hoops. And why would LaSalle students care about playing any teams from VA, NC, and MD. We don’t typically draw many students from these states, and changing conferences wouldn’t likely improve that. There are no natural rivalries except maybe Delaware and Drexel for us. And is that who our rivals should be? This conference still means about the same amout of travel as the a10. Just seems like a step down for no upsides. 3. MAAC. Back to the future. A few upsides. Maybe less travel for teams. Teams drawing from areas many of our students are from. Occasional years of 2 teams making the NCAA. Past success for us. We were obviously at one point able to out-recruit other conference schools. BUT, we left that conference at one point for a reason. A return feels nomadic, and a struggle to find identity. Not sure if this would be positive for the longterm. Why are you already diving into this? Makes me sick. Who are these multiple reputable sources?
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Post by coloradoexplorer on Jan 27, 2018 11:44:37 GMT -5
I would rather make the tournament once every twenty years, than be a D3 National Champion year over year.
As a former student athlete, I would never be able to support the University again if they made this move. Moving to the MAAC, we would probably see immediate success across all sports, but the level of athletics would go down across ALL sports over time & we would just revert back to middle of the pack. We are still VERY competitive in other sports at the University & at least could have the opportunity to make the big stage in D1 & the A10.
*if we move to D3, please recommend a reliable tattoo removal shop for the Explorer on my bicep*
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Post by big5explorer on Jan 27, 2018 12:07:33 GMT -5
Lets look at the conference change possibilities. Feel free to add any realistic ones I am missing: 1. Patriot. I’d actually be most excited for this move personally. As a University it would put us in a class of some very strong academic institutions. But this seems unrealistic to hope for. The conference already has 10 teams. They aren’t going to 11. And I don’t see why they would be interested in 12. Also, our facilities would still rank low compared to those of the other Patriot schools. Have you seen Lehigh’s indoor track and sports fields? 2. Colonial. Seems like a lateral move without any upside. The CAA is ranked just behind the A10 this year in conference strength for hoops. And why would LaSalle students care about playing any teams from VA, NC, and MD. We don’t typically draw many students from these states, and changing conferences wouldn’t likely improve that. There are no natural rivalries except maybe Delaware and Drexel for us. And is that who our rivals should be? This conference still means about the same amout of travel as the a10. Just seems like a step down for no upsides. 3. MAAC. Back to the future. A few upsides. Maybe less travel for teams. Teams drawing from areas many of our students are from. Occasional years of 2 teams making the NCAA. Past success for us. We were obviously at one point able to out-recruit other conference schools. BUT, we left that conference at one point for a reason. A return feels nomadic, and a struggle to find identity. Not sure if this would be positive for the longterm. Why are you already diving into this? Makes me sick. Who are these multiple reputable sources? Why? Hmmmm. Would you rather discuss possible conference options after the University makes the choice? Who? See the first post in the thread. Names obviously aren't going to be mentioned. But it's unlikely 2 separate sources (and perhaps 3) involved are simply prone to confabulation about a potential D3 or conference move being on the table.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 27, 2018 13:02:10 GMT -5
I've talked to someone at the school who reiterated that this is not happening and, to the best of their knowledge, wasn't even part of the discussion. They are worried about this kind of talk getting around to both recruits and other supporters that are unsubstantiated. Look for a statement to be released soon.
I told them that I am not going to censor statements that I feel are warranted if the discussion occurred. People have told me that the concept of D3 was mentioned, if at the very least, but every person said that it is not a real thing. So let's keep that in mind going forward.
I'm not going to lock or delete the thread, but I will be monitoring it. We are a fan-run, fan-moderated board that is not associated directly to the university. Still, please do not post unsubstantiated discussions about conference re-alignment or moving divisions without something useful. Those posts will be deleted.
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Post by durenduren on Jan 27, 2018 13:02:41 GMT -5
As much as you guys can, please trust that this is ripe with outlandish assumptions. Give the D3 thing a rest. I can't give more than that, but this is putting the cart way, way, way ahead of the horse in the worst way possible.
Edit: Posted the same time at Joe. Thanks for the update. Told ya's to take a chill pill...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jan 27, 2018 13:25:52 GMT -5
I told them that I am not going to censor statements that I feel are warranted if the discussion occurred. People have told me that the concept of D3 was mentioned, if at the very least, but every person said that it is not a real thing. So let's keep that in mind going forward. That the concept of D3 was mentioned and internal individuals felt the need to share it with alumni and current students tells me they aren't managing the messaging on this correctly internally. Whether it was mentioned in passing or not at the meeting with the faculty, two individuals reached out to me to tell me this is what they heard. I hope it is not a serious consideration, but if they walked out of the meeting feeling they and others heard that, then the messaging was not clear. It likely shouldn't have even been discussed as a option. For what it's worth, a non-faculty / non-staff member told me Thursday morning about the possible conference switch (not the D3 bit) and I sort of dismissed it as unsubstantiated. It was only after hearing about the internal meeting with ICA and what was discussed that I realized this had SOME legs, and the SOMETHING was under consideration. Hopefully a statement clarifies the position.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 27, 2018 14:23:26 GMT -5
Lets look at the conference change possibilities. Feel free to add any realistic ones I am missing: 1. Patriot. I’d actually be most excited for this move personally. As a University it would put us in a class of some very strong academic institutions. But this seems unrealistic to hope for. The conference already has 10 teams. They aren’t going to 11. And I don’t see why they would be interested in 12. Also, our facilities would still rank low compared to those of the other Patriot schools. Have you seen Lehigh’s indoor track and sports fields? 2. Colonial. Seems like a lateral move without any upside. The CAA is ranked just behind the A10 this year in conference strength for hoops. And why would LaSalle students care about playing any teams from VA, NC, and MD. We don’t typically draw many students from these states, and changing conferences wouldn’t likely improve that. There are no natural rivalries except maybe Delaware and Drexel for us. And is that who our rivals should be? This conference still means about the same amout of travel as the a10. Just seems like a step down for no upsides. 3. MAAC. Back to the future. A few upsides. Maybe less travel for teams. Teams drawing from areas many of our students are from. Occasional years of 2 teams making the NCAA. Past success for us. We were obviously at one point able to out-recruit other conference schools. BUT, we left that conference at one point for a reason. A return feels nomadic, and a struggle to find identity. Not sure if this would be positive for the longterm. The Colonial has had great success in the Big Dance. The problem is that the 2 teams that made Final Four runs are in the A10 now. On top of that, I think the Colonial has had like 2 at Large bids in 12 years. The MAAC and Patriot Leagues have had ZERO at Large bids in that time period. Do you want to play in that sandbox? Steph Curry's junior year, Davidson hit a road block in the SOCON tournament.... Guess what? NIT. Monmouth was an NIT team the other year after stumbling in the MAAC tourney. Basically, your regular season means Jack Shit. Also, your coaching candidate pool shrinks exponentially, because we will be paying a coach $200,000. Let's talk about TV exposure. You guys want to play on TV twice in the conference season? We will play Canisius and Iona on a Friday night. I'm not opposed to Friday night games, but as for only watching La Salle twice on TV? No thanks. Patriot League? I heard back in 2002 that football was looking to piggyback the success of Bill Manlove, and they were getting Patriot looks, until the program went to shit with the spread offense. For basketball, no thanks. We do not align with those schools academically. There's a reason Mason, VCU, and Davidson joined the A10. There's a reason Wichita State left the Valley to join the American. These schools are doing everything they can to have a chance to compete. How many schools do we see dropping levels? Think about all the unintended consequences this will have. Think about the Tru-Mark deal, the ESPN tournaments that Bradshaw is getting us involved in....it will all fall by the wayside. Don't compound Tom Brennan's bad decisions with more bad decisions.
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Post by stlexplorer on Jan 27, 2018 14:55:26 GMT -5
If this is as untrue as it seems congrats on making big 5 rollout material for the next few years for all our opponents
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