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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 26, 2013 18:01:38 GMT -5
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Post by durenduren on Sept 27, 2013 8:23:20 GMT -5
I'll bite.
While I agree with his talent level, you St Joe's folks are firmly planted on Ronald Roberts' nuts like he's the second coming of Wilt because the kid can dunk. Hell, I could be prolific in that system. "Could be one of the most impossible" talk isn't realistic right now because last year taught that they're lost without everything funneling through the low post. Limit the damage there and you win.
That said, RR succeeds in a system he's built for, while Jerrell kicks butt when teams run two bigs at him as he's the only big in a La Salle jersey. I think that says something.
Kanacevic is a 23% 3PT shooter, but I'm not sure why that's highlighted considering he as much business out there as Aaric Murray did. Shoulda' highlighted his middle finger ability instead.
And in a general sense, I think Pinkston is forgotten in this city.
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Post by explorer88 on Sept 27, 2013 8:44:09 GMT -5
I actually have less issues with this list than the guard list.
Not exactly my order but close.
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 9:44:47 GMT -5
I'll bite. While I agree with his talent level, you St Joe's folks are firmly planted on Ronald Roberts' nuts like he's the second coming of Wilt because the kid can dunk. Hell, I could be prolific in that system. "Could be one of the most impossible" talk isn't realistic right now because last year taught that they're lost without everything funneling through the low post. Limit the damage there and you win. That said, RR succeeds in a system he's built for, while Jerrell kicks butt when teams run two bigs at him as he's the only big in a La Salle jersey. I think that says something. Kanacevic is a 23% 3PT shooter, but I'm not sure why that's highlighted considering he as much business out there as Aaric Murray did. Shoulda' highlighted his middle finger ability instead. And in a general sense, I think Pinkston is forgotten in this city. Thanks for the read and the feedback... Much appreciated!! Actually, I don't think there's much difference between players 1 through 5 on the list.... Jerrell's a very good player and I think the list reflects the respect I have for his game... I did note the need for Kanasevic to exert better control of his emotions... And, I think the list demonstrates the respect I have for Pinkston's game..... Why I have to be "firmly planted on Ronal Roberts' nuts," I'll NEVER understand....  I truly enjoy dialogue and disagreements about college basketball... When it degenerates into personal attacks it becomes much less interesting... I would very much like to see how you would rank the players for the upcoming season... If you gave me permission, I would post your rankings on the site... Anytime you or anyone else disagrees and presents a counter-argument, I will post it unedited as long as you are willing to put your name on it.... |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 27, 2013 10:38:05 GMT -5
There was nothing personal about that, so let's not play that card (unless a comment about Hawk fans seeing RR through a clouded lens is personal). I'll agree with you that the top spots are pretty much a crap shoot, but I was arguing that RR is a large benefactor of the system in which he plays, which is not noted. The relentless pursuit of the arial style of play makes St Joes very one dimensional for stretches during games, which can be a double-edged sword for RR's game. He's definitely earned a top ranking, no question, but with all of St Joes' departures it will be interesting to see how he'll respond the increased pressure being highlighted with those other game changers now gone. Teams will be able to cheat on him more often at a smaller cost. He'll be great, but not "almost impossible to guard" for those reasons, I think.
But I think it's unfair to give any of these players nods without noting the system in which they play. And I'm not arguing for Jerrell either because I'm not sure he deserves the top spot either. Some question marks exist there too.
Out of the top 3, Pinkston's been lined up with the most difficult competition on a regular basis by virtue of conference affiliation. I think there's something to that. Not saying his game is complete either.
And publish my stuff? Nah. Saving it for my own blog, "The Colorless Cager"
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 11:02:51 GMT -5
There was nothing personal about that, so let's not play that card (unless a comment about Hawk fans seeing RR through a clouded lens is personal). I'll agree with you that the top spots are pretty much a crap shoot, but I was arguing that RR is a large benefactor of the system in which he plays, which is not noted. The relentless pursuit of the arial style of play makes St Joes very one dimensional for stretches during games, which can be a double-edged sword for RR's game. He's definitely earned a top ranking, no question, but with all of St Joes' departures it will be interesting to see how he'll respond the increased pressure being highlighted with those other game changers now gone. Teams will be able to cheat on him more often at a smaller cost. He'll be great, but not "almost impossible to guard" for those reasons, I think. But I think it's unfair to give any of these players nods without noting the system in which they play. And I'm not arguing for Jerrell either because I'm not sure he deserves the top spot either. Some question marks exist there too. Out of the top 3, Pinkston's been lined up with the most difficult competition on a regular basis by virtue of conference affiliation. I think there's something to that. Not saying his game is complete either. And publish my stuff? Nah. Saving it for my own blog, "The Colorless Cager" Nice....  Still don't understand how "nuts" play into all of this? I would faithfully read "The Colorless Cager"...  |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 27, 2013 11:27:47 GMT -5
Still don't understand how "nuts" play into all of this? Statements like "Roberts is the most explosive player in the city and, perhaps, on the eastern seaboard" aren't a hair overkill? We're talking about Ronald Roberts here, not Detroit's Doug Anderson or the Gophers' Rodney Williams. He's really great, but let's not get carried away... And I LOVE how you say you encourage and expect debate, but the moment disagreement occurs, it's automatically a personal attack... |
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Sept 27, 2013 11:36:06 GMT -5
This is never going to work and its not one-sided.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2013 12:27:48 GMT -5
I like Ron Roberts. Seems like a good kid and has always handled himself with class on the court. Plays hard and jumps out of the building.
But.......
he has zero ballhandling skills
and I've never seen this nice short range jump shot the author speaks of.
I saw St Joe's play a lot of games last year and if Roberts made more than 5 total shots beyond 7-8 feet from the basket in those games, I sure don't remember them.
These deficiencies are the same reason why CJ Aiken underachieved. Athletic out the wazoo, but Aiken could be shut down by guards because he played 20 feet away from the basket and had no ballhandling skills to be able to get by them nor the strength to post them up. Aiken had a decent mid-range jumper though but rarely got to use it because he couldn't create space for himself.
I would take Pinkston and Wright over Roberts.
And the author's love affair with Roberts is understandable. He admitted that he showed favoritism to his "young bucks" on his backcourt list so why should it be any different on this one.
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 16:26:29 GMT -5
Still don't understand how "nuts" play into all of this? Statements like "Roberts is the most explosive player in the city and, perhaps, on the eastern seaboard" aren't a hair overkill? We're talking about Ronald Roberts here, not Detroit's Doug Anderson or the Gophers' Rodney Williams. He's really great, but let's not get carried away... And I LOVE how you say you encourage and expect debate, but the moment disagreement occurs, it's automatically a personal attack... I dunno... All my life (48 years) if some accused me of being on someone's "d&*k" or "nut sack" I have taken that as a personal attack... I would expect a LOT of LaSalle fans to feel Jerrell and Zack are better than opposing players... I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with divergent opinions... I stated rather plainly, that I felt Duren was the best guard in the area and MANY supporters of the other guards disagreed strongly with that assessment... My opinion has no more validity than yours or any other observer of the local hoops scene... I do appreciate the read and I respect your opinion. I thank you, once again, for the feedback... |
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 16:28:34 GMT -5
This is never going to work and its not one-sided. It wouldn't be any fun if we all agreed... I do believe we can disagree without being "disrespectful" toward one another... |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 27, 2013 16:39:15 GMT -5
I dunno... All my life (48 years) if some accused me of being on someone's "d&*k" or "nut sack" I have taken that as a personal attack... Let's drop this part, because we aren't going to see eye to eye. Wasn't anything personal, just commenting that I thought some of the praise was a very homer. Sorry if my phrasing wasn't your cup of tea. I would expect a LOT of LaSalle fans to feel Jerrell and Zack are better than opposing players... I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with divergent opinions... I stated rather plainly, that I felt Duren was the best guard in the area and MANY supporters of the other guards disagreed strongly with that assessment... That's fair, and I expect that. It's the internet, and we're talking sports - People will disagree. But I feel that Pinkston is the most proven commodity of the bigs so far until we see if Jerrell of March can be repeated. If Christmas gets more playing opportunity, the world is his oyster. |
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 16:45:58 GMT -5
I dunno... All my life (48 years) if some accused me of being on someone's "d&*k" or "nut sack" I have taken that as a personal attack... Let's drop this part, because we aren't going to see eye to eye. Wasn't anything personal, just commenting that I thought some of the praise was a very homer. Sorry if my phrasing wasn't your cup of tea. I would expect a LOT of LaSalle fans to feel Jerrell and Zack are better than opposing players... I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with divergent opinions... I stated rather plainly, that I felt Duren was the best guard in the area and MANY supporters of the other guards disagreed strongly with that assessment... That's fair, and I expect that. It's the internet, and we're talking sports - People will disagree. But I feel that Pinkston is the most proven commodity of the bigs so far until we see if Jerrell of March can be repeated. If Christmas gets more playing opportunity, the world is his oyster. I agree... I also think Christmas' minutes may actually decline this year... I think Zack may evolve into a long-term (10-12 season) NBA buck-up center/practice player... He may actually make more $$$ playing basketball than all of the guys on the list... He's a legit 6'11" with a decent frame and he has a very desirable "intangible" asset working in his favor... If Dwayne Jones can find his way on an NBA roster, year after year, I think Zack will have a good shot at doing the same... Jerrell, Pinkston and Roberts are all undersized 4's.... Christmas, Ochefu and Jefferson - on paper - would have the biggest upsides, but they just haven't been as productive as one would expect... there's still a LOT of time left for them to get it done at the college level.... |
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Post by lwc4591 on Sept 27, 2013 17:44:40 GMT -5
I think Ronald Roberts will pass Doo-rett,Brooks and Simmons this season as one of the all time greats in the Big 5 but maybe when the drugs wear off I may change my mind.
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Post by lwc4591 on Sept 27, 2013 17:52:49 GMT -5
In all seriousness I believe La Salle has the best point guard (Duren), best forward (Wright) and best center (Zack) in the Big 5 this season and that is why they will end up being the best team. Also have the best bench with Lewis, Peterson, Brown and Davis.
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 18:16:16 GMT -5
In all seriousness I believe La Salle has the best point guard (Duren), best forward (Wright) and best center (Zack) in the Big 5 this season and that is why they will end up being the best team. Also have the best bench with Lewis, Peterson, Brown and Davis. Arch (PG), Pinkston (PF) and (Ochefu) aren't bad... But, I see your point... |
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Post by casey44 on Sept 27, 2013 21:54:55 GMT -5
Pinkston seems to be the most under rated player in the city and the difference between the first three amounts to a "mouse fart", but beyond all of this is this guys willingness to put his real name out there and have a basketball discussion. IMO he has not responded in kind to some strong, if not disrespectful, responses. Anyone who has ever viewed the SJU forum on a regular basis knows where his loyalties lie. I don't think he put these rankings out to start a war. He certainly isn't a troll, so what's the big deal here?. I agree that putting these guards who have never played a game in the same class as Mills is meant to stir the pot a bit, but he doesn't appear to be arrogant about it.
I've always felt that this board was more reasonable in tone towards guests than SJU. I have been away from Philly for quite a bit of time and think that the school system there and any problems that relates to blacks getting eligible to qualify for NCAA clearinghouse regs is fair game for discussion as long as it relates to bb. I also can appreciate the fact that there is a bias on his part because he is coming at the subject from a black perspective, but in case no one has noticed, our team is about 92% black. I don't get the ''political'' end of it, probably because I'm so far away from the problems that exist there and find the topic educational rather than confrontational. Just my feelings about this thread.
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Post by MisterD on Sept 27, 2013 22:21:38 GMT -5
8% Zack.
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Post by MisterD on Sept 27, 2013 22:26:23 GMT -5
(But to seriously address, this board exists solely for basketball. If we get into gray areas of politics or social issues we're teetering on the cusp of hypocrisy for why this started and who we were all annoyed at. I don't disagree one bit that inner city education is a worthwhile topic, far more worthwhile than basketball ... just not here.)
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 27, 2013 22:48:52 GMT -5
(But to seriously address, this board exists solely for basketball. If we get into gray areas of politics or social issues we're teetering on the cusp of hypocrisy for why this started and who we were all annoyed at. I don't disagree one bit that inner city education is a worthwhile topic, far more worthwhile than basketball ... just not here.) A legendary Philadelphia basketball player called me yesterday... He asked me to take a look at his stepson's transcript... The kid has some D1 schools interested in him as a scholarship student-athlete... Guys know that college coaches at City 6 schools will review transcripts if I ask them... I ask the coaches to review them as if they were recruiting the kid... in other words, "is there any way we can get this kid through the clearinghouse?" Re-take classes or increase test scores? Unfortunately, this kid was not salvageable... Every year, this occurs on scores of occasions... It's unfortunate because LaSalle and Drexel graduate EVERY 4 year player... The challenge, is getting kids in... Some schools and coaches have established programs that provide the structure and support necessary.... These are STUDENT-athletes... I find it impossible to just talk about their basketball abilities when they attend the schools in the attached chart... Attachment Deleted |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 27, 2013 23:34:08 GMT -5
What he lacks in numbers, he makes up for in pastiness. |
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Post by calsufan on Sept 28, 2013 11:53:07 GMT -5
What he lacks in numbers, he makes up for in pastiness. Steve Zack is me except he's 6 inches taller and actually has some basketball skills. |
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