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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 14:21:07 GMT -5
Per Xavier AD, the new Big East is eyeing expansion to 12 teams in the next few years. The four schools being considered are VCU, SLU, Dayton, and Richmond. Starts at 5:16 mark.
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Post by ltrain38 on Sept 5, 2013 17:53:47 GMT -5
I wonder how serious they are about VCU. If it's about getting the best basketball team they can without football, it's an obvious choice. But I can't imagine Georgetown loves the idea over, say, Richmond and as a southern state institution, they are a bit of an outlier (if that matters). From our perspective, I can live with any of the other three bolting; VCU would be devastating to the A10.
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Post by theneumann64 on Sept 5, 2013 18:14:54 GMT -5
I had a real long thing typed out and then the board went down and I lost it. But real brief: St. Louis is gone, they've never been a fit since someone looked at a map and noticed where Saint Louis was located in respect to the rest of the conference.
We can lose Dayton and it's not the end of the world, especially as they become even more of a geographical outlier. But we need to do everything we can to keep VCU, and to a lesser extent Richmond. Preserve the Atlantic part of it and we'll be fine.
....damn my original post was much better. Stupid proboards lol.
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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 18:49:33 GMT -5
Piggy-backing on what Neumann said - St Louis is pretty destined for the Big East, barring someone else comes knocking. When St Louis falls, Dayton becomes the western most school by nearly 275 miles. If the league has any vision, they'd stack all their chips on keeping VCU and Richmond. With St Louis just waiting to bolt for the door, Dayton will have every incentive to leave. They're a package deal to leave the A10.
All this is easier said though, especially since VCU is obviously ESPN's mid-major crush of the decade. $3.5mil incentive is tough to fight against, the increased CBS coverage, but they'd be the public school grey sheep of the Big East. That and the hilarious "Hoya Paranoia."
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Post by theneumann64 on Sept 5, 2013 18:54:32 GMT -5
My other point that got lost: Dayton is a fine program, but really quite overrated. 1 NCAA tournament appearance since 2004. This isn't some "We're big-time" thing because of last year, Dayton's obviously been more successful than us in recent years. But they get lumped in with the Xaviers of the world a little too much than is probably called for.
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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 19:03:54 GMT -5
My other point that got lost: Dayton is a fine program, but really quite overrated. Completely agree in every sense, but from the Big East's perspective you can't underestimate the value of that god-forsaken fan base. If Georgetown doesn't throw a fit, or if Fox or whomever has that deal says they need them, VCU would drop everything and go. Presidents and AD's from other schools might not be thrilled but money will dictate. If they're open to a public school, I'd go SLU and VCU all day. Dayton is far from a bad alternative though, especially when you look at DePaul's and Seton Hall's. |
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Post by cpico on Sept 5, 2013 19:10:01 GMT -5
My other point that got lost: Dayton is a fine program, but really quite overrated. 1 NCAA tournament appearance since 2004. This isn't some "We're big-time" thing because of last year, Dayton's obviously been more successful than us in recent years. But they get lumped in with the Xaviers of the world a little too much than is probably called for. Agree Neumann. Dayton is nowhere near the Xavier program. Not even close. Like you said 1 NCAA tournament appearance over the last 9 seasons for Dayton. Good fan base but overrated program. |
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 5, 2013 19:22:16 GMT -5
My other point that got lost: Dayton is a fine program, but really quite overrated. 1 NCAA tournament appearance since 2004. This isn't some "We're big-time" thing because of last year, Dayton's obviously been more successful than us in recent years. But they get lumped in with the Xaviers of the world a little too much than is probably called for. Agree Neumann. Dayton is nowhere near the Xavier program. Not even close. Like you said 1 NCAA tournament appearance over the last 9 seasons for Dayton. Good fan base but overrated program. Every successful conference needs a few doormats with a big fan base. See: Indiana, Washington State, Ole Miss in football. See: Penn State, DePaul, Washington State in hoops. |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 19:36:24 GMT -5
Every successful conference needs a few doormats with a big fan base. See: Penn State, DePaul, Washington State in hoops. This came up when DePaul got the new arena from the taxpayers... Their numbers aren't what they say (try sub 3k), so Dayton would look like the Syracuse in the Carrier Dome in comparison. But now you asked for it with the doormat joke, only a few minutes until the Dayton faithful show up in force to talk about their yearly unrealistic A10 pre-season ranking. |
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Post by theneumann64 on Sept 5, 2013 19:40:18 GMT -5
No one said anything unfair. I prefaced my comments by saying yes, they're historically a better program than us. This isn't some "We had 1 good year, now we're bigger than everyone" thing. It's just that they get lumped in with some company to which I don't feel they belong. They're a great asset to the A-10, but one I'd rather lose than say a VCU, especially now that the Western tier of the conference seems to be evaporating.
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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 19:57:03 GMT -5
Think it's an instance where if VCU keeps winning, the Big East will have no option but to invite them? And on that note, is VCU winning contingent on Shaka staying put?
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Sept 5, 2013 20:00:38 GMT -5
Think it's an instance where if VCU keeps winning, the Big East will have no option but to invite them? And on that note, is VCU winning contingent on Shaka staying put? Nope... Capel left Grant won... Grant Left Shaka won... Shaka leaves _________ will win... They have established a brand and a "young" tradition.... They'll hire another aggressive young coach that will recruit, recruit and recruit.... |
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Post by theneumann64 on Sept 5, 2013 20:13:35 GMT -5
I'm also gonna go ahead and say it: the current Big East may not set the world on fire either. True, it's still called the Big East, and you have Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova, but UConn, Louisville, Syracuse: all gone. DePaul is the aforementioned doormat, as is Providence, who hasn't been a "Big East" caliber team in 15 years. Seton Hall is barely better than that, and St. John's main claim to fame is that they play in a famous building that they fill to less than half capacity (admittedly still over 8000).
Butler and Xavier are strong adds no doubt, and Creighton is as well. But Butler, Xavier and Creighton are still a massive step down from Syracuse, Louisville, and UConn.
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Post by coqui900 on Sept 5, 2013 20:53:47 GMT -5
I really don't want VCU or Richmond to bounce but that money's insane to turn down.
If we lose those four schools, the A-10 needs replacements and pronto. The short list has to have Siena on it. I'm surprised they didn't get an invite yet. Other than that, I'm not sure of who else is left.
We won't end up in the MAAC but the MAAC might end up in the A-10.
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Post by ltrain38 on Sept 5, 2013 21:55:36 GMT -5
I'm also gonna go ahead and say it: the current Big East may not set the world on fire either. True, it's still called the Big East, and you have Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova, but UConn, Louisville, Syracuse: all gone. DePaul is the aforementioned doormat, as is Providence, who hasn't been a "Big East" caliber team in 15 years. Seton Hall is barely better than that, and St. John's main claim to fame is that they play in a famous building that they fill to less than half capacity (admittedly still over 8000). Butler and Xavier are strong adds no doubt, and Creighton is as well. But Butler, Xavier and Creighton are still a massive step down from Syracuse, Louisville, and UConn. Great point. It's definitely still going to be above the A10 in quality, but significantly less so. How concerned are the Big East presidents about their perception as "Major" or "Mid Major?" Is there even a slight motivation to bury the A10 to reinforce the old gap between the conferences? I can't imagine that's more important than finding the best teams and markets to fit their geographical footprint and bolster television ratings, but it could be another mark in favor of taking VCU. |
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Post by durenduren on Sept 5, 2013 22:43:51 GMT -5
How concerned are the Big East presidents about their perception as "Major" or "Mid Major?" IMO, VCU probably carries less of that mid-major stigma than some current new BE schools, and their addition would do more to deflect that mid-major title than Dayton or SLU. They recruited better than plenty of BCS schools, get no shortage of national media attention, OOS is loaded with BCS teams, and VCU would hail in size compared to the current Big East schools. Average total student population of the BE is 10,800 with VCU ringing in at three times that. The TV guys would love to add a name with that student and alumni backing. Georgetown and the public/private issue stand though. If someone had to put a gun to my head though, I think they might surprise, stay the course, and go the route of Memphis/Gonzaga. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 10:09:27 GMT -5
Is there even a slight motivation to bury the A10 to reinforce the old gap between the conferences? I can't imagine that's more important than finding the best teams and markets to fit their geographical footprint and bolster television ratings, but it could be another mark in favor of taking VCU. I was wondering the same thing after seeing this thread pop up yesterday. IMO, basketball-wise, the gap between the New Big East and the A10 is minimal at best, and I'd even go so far as to say that in 2013-14, the A10 overall is the stronger league. And because of that, I think grabbing more A10 teams serves the dual purpose of strengthening their league and weakening the A10. I just hope they're only looking to add 2 teams, which I think will be the case, because those greedy bastards won't want to split the money 14 ways. If for some reason they'd try to grab 4 A10 teams, that would be a disaster. If they only take two (SLU and hopefully Dayton), then the A10 can return to a 12 team, 2 division league. I just don't see any other teams out there that are worth adding to keep the league at 14 teams should two teams leave. |
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Post by a10champion15 on Sept 6, 2013 14:34:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't dare say Dayton is overrated or even compare them to xavier on any other board.... they will come at you like wolverines. Fact of the matter is SLU and Dayton is a solid fit for the big east. I will miss Dayton fan base simply for the fact of it's size but there program has to be one of the most overrated programs in all of college basketball. SLU program is one that has a ton of potential and also is a great addition. I would hope VCU wouldn't leave and honestly I don't think they will. If they add either VCU or Richmond it definitely won't be both.
I think in the most likely scenario it will be Dayton and SLU, it just makes the most sense due to their fan base, location and programs. Also, take into consideration like many others Georgetown feelings about Richmond and VCU I can't imagine they are for it whatsoever. Seeing that Georgetown is probably the best program in the Big East they perhaps have a little more influence than others as well. I think also Xavier welcomes the idea of having Dayton in the Big East as well.
Also, Davidson is a great addition to the A10, say Dayton and SLU leave I will be perfectly happy with 12 A10 teams unless another program really emerges over the next couple of years. The only programs in the A10 that are relatively weak due to the NCAA appearance record is Fordham, Duquesne and perhaps Bona which could improve over the next few seasons. The rest of the conference has very solid programs.
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