The Union label....more potential issues

[weston2]

www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39466589/nlrb-regional-official-clears-way-dartmouth-hoops-union

Wonder where this could be heading.

[roaddog77]

There go college basketball that we use to know. What the purpose to unionize in college sports they can play professionally and get paid more money. We might as well call college basketball the extension of the G-league or Overtime Elite.

[jb71]

Wonder how income will be handled. Tuition over $5250 is considered taxable. So I would think Employee athletes will be liable for Federal, state and local income taxes. That's a pretty big tax liability especially for those with little or no NIL money.

[mookie]

Feb 6, 2024 12:31:27 GMT -5 jb71 said:

Wonder how income will be handled. Tuition over $5250 is considered taxable. So I would think Employee athletes will be liable for Federal, state and local income taxes. That's a pretty big tax liability especially for those with little or no NIL money.

I have less sympathy here regarding tax bills and the argument that these will be hefty bills. Tax bills are based on income generated so if they didn’t make money then they wouldn’t owe any taxes. At the end of the day, they’re better off financially with NIL and these tax bills than they are if there weren’t getting paid. They can save some of that money to pay for their pending tax bill or legislation can figure out how propriety tax them. I get the whole “they’re kids and don’t know better” but part of their argument is that they aren’t kids and should have the right to own and operate as a business; therefore, they are ultimately responsible for figuring out how to save sufficient funds for future tax bills.

Schools need to provide the appropriate NIL processses and safeguards. It’s on the athlete to engage and protect themselves.

[jb71]

Feb 6, 2024 12:56:15 GMT -5 mookie said:

Feb 6, 2024 12:31:27 GMT -5 jb71 said:

Wonder how income will be handled. Tuition over $5250 is considered taxable. So I would think Employee athletes will be liable for Federal, state and local income taxes. That's a pretty big tax liability especially for those with little or no NIL money.

I have less sympathy here regarding tax bills and the argument that these will be hefty bills. Tax bills are based on income generated so if they didn’t make money then they wouldn’t owe any taxes. At the end of the day, they’re better off financially with NIL and these tax bills than they are if there weren’t getting paid. They can save some of that money to pay for their pending tax bill or legislation can figure out how propriety tax them. I get the whole “they’re kids and don’t know better” but part of their argument is that they aren’t kids and should have the right to own and operate as a business; therefore, they are ultimately responsible for figuring out how to save sufficient funds for future tax bills.

Schools need to provide the appropriate NIL processses and safeguards. It’s on the athlete to engage and protect themselves.

I'm not expressing sympathy. My point is that if they're employees then it's likely that the education benefits they receive from scholarships
will result in tax liabilities.  Of course Ivy Teams don't have athletic scholarships so it may not be an issue for them. But if the Union movement expands to schools providing athletic scholarships the Law of Unintended Consequences may affect many.

[GlitterBro #2]

I wonder if they would be considered "employees of the collective" and not necessarily the institution to avoid the tax implications of tuition.

[explorer88]

Feb 6, 2024 17:17:20 GMT -5 GlitterBro #2 said:

I wonder if they would be considered "employees of the collective" and not necessarily the institution to avoid the tax implications of tuition.

Whomever is distributing the funds are required to report the earnings. I am not sure how the NIL works everywhere but I believe they are running through the schools. This would be combined with tuition earnings.

[GlitterBro #2]

They are school specific but are considered separate entities, independent of the University.

[explorer88]

They are still reportable so the tax impact would be the same regardless of who is reporting.

[GlitterBro #2]

Feb 6, 2024 18:10:42 GMT -5 explorer88 said:

They are still reportable so the tax impact would be the same regardless of who is reporting.

Not the tuition benefit which is what jb was referring to. The NIL income - yes...definitely taxable

[calsufan]

This shows how old I am. I remember the old commercials with the ditty "Look for the union label."

[explorer88]

Feb 6, 2024 18:17:42 GMT -5 GlitterBro #2 said:

Feb 6, 2024 18:10:42 GMT -5 explorer88 said:

They are still reportable so the tax impact would be the same regardless of who is reporting.

Not the tuition benefit which is what jb was referring to. The NIL income - yes...definitely taxable

Where was the documented? I didn’t see that. If they are employees and receiving tuition the value of the tuition should be taxable.

[jb71]

Feb 6, 2024 17:17:20 GMT -5 GlitterBro #2 said:

I wonder if they would be considered "employees of the collective" and not necessarily the institution to avoid the tax implications of tuition.

I may have missed it but there was no mention of a Collective. The decision seemed to declare the Basketball team as employees of Dartmouth.

[hoopsguest]

So can you differentiate between a D1 program that makes money and a D3 program that doesn’t? The NCAA lawyers are morons - they have literally never won a case. Plus, it’s interesting that Dartmouth basketball , which is non scholarship, and probably doesn’t make money, is the one arguing this as opposed to say Kentucky players

[thelasallelunatic]

I just want to know this, if players are employees, can they be fired for subpar performance? Can we now make firing coaches mid-season a thing that doesn't get an eye roll every time it happens?

Lastly if all I'm watching is a lesser athletic and skilled NBA, why should I watch college basketball at all? Everybody that has been beating the drum for this can't come to grips with this... if the NBA and NCAAM are both unionized entities, recognized employees, they are now direct competitors for eyeballs. The NBA wins in a landslide.

Without the eyeballs, without the ratings, with a separate NCAA tourney, the sport doesn't make as much money. It's going to shrink the earning potential of all of the athletes.

[MisterD]

Are you saying the only thing that kept you watching college basketball was the players being unpaid?

[sweat83]

Feb 6, 2024 12:06:33 GMT -5 roaddog77 said:

There go college basketball that we use to know. What the purpose to unionize in college sports they can play professionally and get paid more money. We might as well call college basketball the extension of the G-league or Overtime Elite.

Waiting for an LIV "College" league to start up to disrupt things even more.

[thelasallelunatic]

Feb 8, 2024 10:13:13 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Are you saying the only thing that kept you watching college basketball was the players being unpaid?

No. I watch(ed) the college game because of my connection to the players as La Salle students. The feelings I had when they made the Sweet 16, won't be topped by a Sixers NBA championship.

But if I'm watching players who are basically mercenaries, spending a year at each college they play for, the connection as an Explorer doesn't really exist. If I'm basically watching 19 year old second tier players making Euroleague type money, or NBA type money at bigger schools, why not just watch the best players in the world in the NBA?

Whether or not you agree with me, I'd bet my house on it that I'm far from the minority of college basketball fans. Jay Wright and Nick Saban are far from the only canaries in the coal mine.

[MisterD]

Galloway and Garland were both two year players so I'm still not getting the distinction beyond the pay.

[lasallejohn]

In both their cases they were from philly and played for 2 years and garland even sat a semester

[MisterD]

Sure, then that's a different question for Lunatic. Would he be ok with a one year player if he was from Philadelphia?

[thelasallelunatic]

MisterD, I'm OK with a transfer, the 3 and 4 schools, that's where I draw get turned off a bit.

I'm for some player flexibility that isn't total free agency. I feel bad for high school seniors outside the top 100 that are barely getting looks, AND I FEEL that this is our moneyball margin, not the transfer pool and not Europe.

But I'm not on the coaching staff.

[MisterD]

So if like Steve Settle from Temple decided he wanted to go down a level to establish himself as a focal point 20-10 guy, you'd say no?

[thelasallelunatic]

Feb 12, 2024 19:21:25 GMT -5 MisterD said:

So if like Steve Settle from Temple decided he wanted to go down a level to establish himself as a focal point 20-10 guy, you'd say no?

At this risk of this sounding like a contradiction, I'm OK with 3 schools in a Tracey Carter type situation where his brother was shot and killed and he rightfully wanted to get out of Philadelphia.

I'm sure there's other heart breaking instances where I'd be ok with as well. Tre Mitchell? Hell no. Just go pro if you want to play musical chairs.

[hykos1045]

How long will it be until the non revenue sports break off from the mega conferences and ask to be regionally assigned? I think it makes sense to have state by state conferences for soccer like D3 does. The tournament should be the top 16 teams from 4 regions. Getting on planes to play a nonrev sport in front of 150 to 300 people week in and week out seems a bit silly. And I'm a soccer guy, but I want the students to be students first.

[talkinbball]

Feb 12, 2024 21:18:17 GMT -5 hykos1045 said:

How long will it be until the non revenue sports break off from the mega conferences and ask to be regionally assigned? I think it makes sense to have state by state conferences for soccer like D3 does. The tournament should be the top 16 teams from 4 regions. Getting on planes to play a nonrev sport in front of 150 to 300 people week in and week out seems a bit silly. And I'm a soccer guy, but I want the students to be students first.

Really hope I am still around when this happens or, until, at least, some semblance of sense is restored in this whole mess. La Salle is far and away not the only school "stuck" in this mess. Our situation, unfortunately, is/was made even more so by the pathetic, initial addressing of the gym/arena issue.

[weston2]

If they are classified as employees, who's to say they would even have to be students. Do other La Salle employees have that requirement. Where will this go? Crazy? Optional?