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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 22:13:05 GMT -5
2 things: 1) Leadership is committed to staying in the A-10. Nothing else even thought of. Dr Allen knows how valuable this real estate is. Zero percent chance they would get the money they needed for Glazer. But they got it now. Being in the bottom half year-in, year-out in both MBB and WBB gets exhausting. And like I mentioned above, the difference between the top third and the bottom third grows wider with every NIL check that gets cut. I used to be A10 or bust...but I don't like the league for La Salle (or like five other schools) anymore. |
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Post by mookie on Jan 17, 2024 7:48:09 GMT -5
La Salle -- like all organizations -- must first account for who is it and who is has been for the past 30 years before it can ever craft an accountable vision for who it can become. Instead, we talk about tradition and legends from past decades. That makes us akin to the Washington Commanders of this league. This is the part that is probably the hardest pill to swallow for some- but here it is: La Salle's history is basically all but irrelevant to the present discussion. Certainly things that happened in 1954 and 1969 are. The 1986-1990 era matters barely more than that, and the 2013 run fades more and more into obscurity every day. I love sports history, do a podcast about sports history topics, watch old sports clips and games in my free time. Our history- most of which you have to be over 45 to even remember any of it, is not going to save us. I’ve said this time and time again. Without understanding and acknowledging who we are we can’t even take the first step. After that, we need to land on an identity of who we are as a university first then as a program. All that talk about what was accomplished back in the 50s is crap. La Salle is NOT a basketball school nor does it have any program prestige. The Sweet 16 run was amazing but it was a blip, a true Cinderella run, that gave hope to those who grew up with close enough to a time when the program enjoyed success and when the Big 5 meant something. I have respect for the Big 5 but I also acknowledge that I’m from outside Philly where the Big 5 doesn’t hold as much credibility AND while old enough to be somewhat familiar with the success preA10, I’m young enough to know that none of that matters and too far away for top recruits to really appreciate. You MAY get a throwback player here and there and it’s likely going to come from a Philly kid, but that’s a small chance of finding and even smaller chance of landing that kid. It was tough just 10 years ago and it’s far more difficult in the age of NIL and the success of Nova. Before Nova of the last 10 years, it was Temple. Even SJU had more success than La Salle so that places us even further behind in our own city! Reality is, change needs to happen. It’s not radical to invest in your basketball program and make it a revenue stream. What makes it radical is that it could come at a cost of the university financial well-being especially if it fails. I don’t believe there’s an AD, president or board member that has the courage to do that at La Salle. That makes the AD and coaching job, stepping stones in the sense that it gives that individual “experience” but nobody will be long on those opportunities because of the obvious unless, and I can’t believe I’m saying this, a drop in conference occurs where we would be positioned to be successful. But even that requires us to come up with an identity because a drop will not guarantee success and if we fail to be successful there then that drop ultimately becomes the kiss of death. |
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Post by mookie on Jan 17, 2024 7:50:42 GMT -5
2 things: 1) Leadership is committed to staying in the A-10. Nothing else even thought of. Dr Allen knows how valuable this real estate is. Zero percent chance they would get the money they needed for Glazer. But they got it now. Being in the bottom half year-in, year-out in both MBB and WBB gets exhausting. And like I mentioned above, the difference between the top third and the bottom third grows wider with every NIL check that gets cut. I used to be A10 or bust...but I don't like the league for La Salle (or like five other schools) anymore. Time will tell if “they got it”. Not saying things have to happen overnight, but it’s TBD in my opinion. The longer it takes to become successful the less likely it’ll be we can ever achieve it and sustain it. The landscape has changed and will continue to change in a way that it makes it difficult for nonBCS football schools. Side note - I’m absolutely hate the idea of dropping conferences. Prior to attending La Salle, I was an ACC guy. The conferences that I “respected” didn’t include the A10 and I’ll admit that was very snotty and uneducated. I’ve come around but to drop from A10 in a time where power conferences are growing would be a huge blow. Do other conferences really enjoy strong game attendance and marketing opportunities to be attractive? I’m particularly big on the quality of basketball I see from other conferences and I may be in minority here, but I absolutely hate Patriot League and Colonial Conference style/brand of basketball. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 17, 2024 7:56:11 GMT -5
I meant they got the money.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jan 17, 2024 8:51:10 GMT -5
I meant they got the money. sort of...there are second and third phases that they don't have the money for yet. A good conference season may have helped with some of that, and attendance and excitement has been up this year which I was hoping could be built upon. Someone mentioned earlier they couldn't believe the St. Joe's loss devolved to this in the thread...but that game (and the home one in a few weeks) are probably the two most important games on the conference schedule in terms of getting people to open their checkbooks. Coming out and laying an egg the way the team did and having the Hawks hand us the worst conference loss of the season puts those later phases in jeopardy and squashes excitement. Lose that second game at home in a big way, and the stands in the Gola will be mostly empty by mid-February. It is a real possibility that the team goes 1-7 in January (maybe 2-6 if we are lucky) - that isn't getting people to buy tickets and reach into their wallets. |
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Post by explorerburger on Jan 17, 2024 11:16:57 GMT -5
I meant they got the money. sort of...there are second and third phases that they don't have the money for yet. A good conference season may have helped with some of that, and attendance and excitement has been up this year which I was hoping could be built upon. Someone mentioned earlier they couldn't believe the St. Joe's loss devolved to this in the thread...but that game (and the home one in a few weeks) are probably the two most important games on the conference schedule in terms of getting people to open their checkbooks. Coming out and laying an egg the way the team did and having the Hawks hand us the worst conference loss of the season puts those later phases in jeopardy and squashes excitement. Lose that second game at home in a big way, and the stands in the Gola will be mostly empty by mid-February. It is a real possibility that the team goes 1-7 in January (maybe 2-6 if we are lucky) - that isn't getting people to buy tickets and reach into their wallets. Also, its a relevant discussion in this thread because although St Joe's is far from a perfect school or program, it is a school that has an enormous amount in common with La Salle. Yet, it generally has seemed to make better decisions than we have. I'd be interested in differing perspectives on that point, but personally, I'd be glad to have their problems. |
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Post by explorerman on Jan 17, 2024 12:23:22 GMT -5
2 things: 1) Leadership is committed to staying in the A-10. Nothing else even thought of. Dr Allen knows how valuable this real estate is. Zero percent chance they would get the money they needed for Glazer. But they got it now. Being in the bottom half year-in, year-out in both MBB and WBB gets exhausting. And like I mentioned above, the difference between the top third and the bottom third grows wider with every NIL check that gets cut. I used to be A10 or bust...but I don't like the league for La Salle (or like five other schools) anymore. Absolutely gets exhausting.. I am with you there, Joe |
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 17, 2024 13:58:37 GMT -5
So you want a "systems coach?" Princeton or something like that? I think that something as radical or more radical than Princeton needs to happen if La Salle wants to compete in the Atlantic 10 routinely. The players you can get to run something specific and special are findable. The players you can find to run a flex offense aren't going to be good enough to beat Dayton or VCU or St. Joe's. The second part of this...finding a coach that both recruits really really well AND coaches really really well seems to be impossible for La Salle. When Dunphy was at Penn, he could coach better than the rest of the ivies with Ivy level talent. When he was at Temple, he could coach better than the rest of the A10 (but not the AAC) with A10 level talent...even though Temple had slightly above A10 level talent. At La Salle, the gulf between La Salle's pool and Dayton's pool is too wide. You can get one or two of those players, but they have 10 of them. And they have the ones that do what you want them to do. So I don't know if there is a system out there anymore. Things have become pretty vanilla. Davidson is probably the best comp, but even Mckillop's system is a few years in the past. They were able to compete because their players did what they did better than everyone else. Having Steph Curry for a couple years probably didn't hurt , but they were good before that. And they did it with players that were not the most heavily recruited guys. I don't know. Lots to think about. JoeF : I see what you did there. + 2 ( extra credit )  |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 17, 2024 14:16:48 GMT -5
Also, its a relevant discussion in this thread because although St Joe's is far from a perfect school or program, it is a school that has an enormous amount in common with La Salle. Yet, it generally has seemed to make better decisions than we have. St. Joseph's has two benefits. Their location is more suburban (they have their problems too though for sure) so they have more attraction to a certain suburban student. Additionally, and more importantly,. they have the benefit of having major benefactors that have given them over $150M in the last two decades. That surely helps smooth over any issues they have. Benefactors bought and moved an elite high school just for St. Joe's. The Maguire family has basically purchased the school's land for them. Hagan wrote a check for $25M on a Friday afternoon. |
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 17, 2024 14:40:22 GMT -5
At the risk of 'piling - on', something that I haven't seen mentioned thus far is that, in this new era of NIL compensation and NIL collectives, even were lightning to strike or be captured in a bottle once again and La Salle was able to recruit or develop an 'emerging star' player by the end of his freshman or sophomore year ( e.g., Tyler Burton from A-10 Richmond's recent transfer to Big East Villanova ), unfortunately but realistically, that player owes it to himself and his family to transfer up to the Big East, Big 10 or ACC, should that opportunity present itself, to immediately triple his annual NIL income, enhance his national visibility and thereby greatly improve his chances of being drafted by the NBA 'G' League or to at least better position himself upon graduation to possibly make serious money playing professional basketball in Europe.  |
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Post by diehardexplorer on Jan 17, 2024 15:50:31 GMT -5
Talking about dropping down conferences after a 20 point loss to St Joe's is particularly ill timed I think. I understand the anger and frustration but it's salty, stinky. Saving for another time sure appeals to me. but it isn't just the 20 point loss to St. Joe's. It is that plus a 16 pt loss to UMass and a 15 pt loss to Mason. Through 5 A10 games, we have been outscored 387-335. Our 4 losses have been by an average of 14.25. That's not competing or showing a commitment to belonging in the league. We didn't show up to play against a local rival. let's dig a little into the details here. your statement about not competing is just wrong. the mason and umass games were both close until the last 6-7 minutes. this team, which was already short on depth, has been missing a key player for the last 4 games and part of the gmu game. against gmu, it was a six point game with 7 minutes left when gill got hurt. not saying they were going to come back and win, but without that third ballhandler and arguably their best defender, the wheels came off. against fordham, who just won at st bona, they gutted out a tough win. against umass, it was a seven point game with 6:38 left. like the mason game, they ran out of gas down the stretch. they should have won the vcu game but a couple unfortunate bounces late in the game went the other way. they competed very hard that day. not sure what team you've been watching, for the most part, i see kids that compete very hard. as far as the st joe's (pa) game goes, they had a bad game. they were facing a desperate and more talented team on their homecourt. they got in a hole early due to the horrific call on brickus where he had to sit 3 minutes of game time to get his nose to stop bleeding while the hawks went on a 9-0 run. very hard for a team short on depth to have the energy to make up something like that just two days after the tough loss to vcu. i give them credit for getting it back to a single digit deficit a few times but they exerted so much energy doing that, their tank was empty during the last 10 minutes of the game. and just a reminder that last season, the hawks pounded la salle during their first matchup. la salle was able to win the second game. hopefully we'll have a full roster for that one. |
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jan 17, 2024 16:40:52 GMT -5
I would agree with you if the games were 30 or 35 minutes, but they aren't. We have to play and compete for 40. None of our A10 losses were to teams with winning conference records (that could change if UMass upsets Loyola on the road tonight), so to be averaging double-digit losses...Gill or no Gill...tells me we aren't competing. I see other guys riding the pine not being used at all in games. If none of them have the skills to handle the ball in the A10 with more than half the season done, then we have a bigger issue with recruitment, and that's on the coach.
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Jan 17, 2024 18:15:30 GMT -5
sort of...there are second and third phases that they don't have the money for yet. A good conference season may have helped with some of that, and attendance and excitement has been up this year which I was hoping could be built upon. Someone mentioned earlier they couldn't believe the St. Joe's loss devolved to this in the thread...but that game (and the home one in a few weeks) are probably the two most important games on the conference schedule in terms of getting people to open their checkbooks. Coming out and laying an egg the way the team did and having the Hawks hand us the worst conference loss of the season puts those later phases in jeopardy and squashes excitement. Lose that second game at home in a big way, and the stands in the Gola will be mostly empty by mid-February. It is a real possibility that the team goes 1-7 in January (maybe 2-6 if we are lucky) - that isn't getting people to buy tickets and reach into their wallets. Also, its a relevant discussion in this thread because although St Joe's is far from a perfect school or program, it is a school that has an enormous amount in common with La Salle. Yet, it generally has seemed to make better decisions than we have. I'd be interested in differing perspectives on that point, but personally, I'd be glad to have their problems. My wise-ass (cynical) answer would be to say this is partly the difference between the Jesuits and the Christian Brothers. |
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Post by explorerburger on Jan 18, 2024 14:32:35 GMT -5
Also, its a relevant discussion in this thread because although St Joe's is far from a perfect school or program, it is a school that has an enormous amount in common with La Salle. Yet, it generally has seemed to make better decisions than we have. I'd be interested in differing perspectives on that point, but personally, I'd be glad to have their problems. My wise-ass (cynical) answer would be to say this is partly the difference between the Jesuits and the Christian Brothers. I don't think that's cynical at all. The Brothers are teachers, not businessmen. And, unfortunately, teaching is only one part of running a university. |
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Jan 18, 2024 14:50:12 GMT -5
Its kinda like when a former player becomes a team's GM. Like sure, it could work, but that background isn't ideal when you're trying to fit into the job description.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Jan 19, 2024 13:22:15 GMT -5
Go back to G. It’s Colleen’s fault. We need Brickus to stay. Upgrade the assistant coaches. Guys, none of these things are the cause of or solution to the problems. La Salle cannot win at this level by being normal. School can barely stay open by being normal. If the basketball team is going to win, it is going to need an identity outside what you’re considering with players that do not have the interest of A10 school. There’s no silver bullet. Lionel Simmons or Steve Smith or Aaric Murray or Ramon Galloway are not walking through that door anymore. You’re going to get the undersized guards that you like, but you can’t stack three of them. Everybody has to be able to shoot. You have to have a system that gets around the obvious weaknesses that will definitely exist on your roster. Joe if what you are saying is correct "There’s no silver bullet. Lionel Simmons or Steve Smith or Aaric Murray or Ramon Galloway are not walking through that door anymore". that is pretty damming. A slow drip but this has been our life blood for 40 years+. What makes you so certain of this? What makes you come to this conclusion? Joe? |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 19, 2024 13:41:57 GMT -5
Ramon Galloway was a transfer who wanted/needed to come home. Had there been an NIL offer from Temple or Joe's he would have gone home there. Murray and Simmons don't even consider La Salle in today's climate. Steve Smith was a great get, but considering...again...the NIL money at play for a top 10 player in the city. I just don't see La Salle making the final list.
Maybe I'm wrong. The last eight years would indicate that I'm not. The last three years would REALLY indicate that I'm not.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Jan 19, 2024 13:48:12 GMT -5
I think you're right. In the past, we offered the location, the conference and the playing time and that was enough. You can't expect very many kids to still prioritize that if the money isn't the same.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Jan 19, 2024 13:55:52 GMT -5
Ramon Galloway was a transfer who wanted/needed to come home. Had there been an NIL offer from Temple or Joe's he would have gone home there. Murray and Simmons don't even consider La Salle in today's climate. Steve Smith was a great get, but considering...again...the NIL money at play for a top 10 player in the city. I just don't see La Salle making the final list. Maybe I'm wrong. The last eight years would indicate that I'm not. The last three years would REALLY indicate that I'm not. thanks Joe |
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Post by hoopsguest on Jan 19, 2024 15:26:37 GMT -5
Steve Smith was under recruited and didn’t qualify as a freshman. He would have been in play. Murray was such an odd situation and G got him despite the kid being a top 30-40 kid. Back then getting him was a shock for La Salle. Lionel was before my time so I don’t know about him.
G got Ramon and specifically Ty Garland because he recruited them hard in HS but knew they would go elsewhere and he would get the bounce back. Now Ramon came home because of family. If he got say 100k NIL from South Carolina maybe he stays there and flies home frequently. Who knows. Even money changes the family situation (allows for the player to provide care for that family member or if they have a kid they can move that kid and a family member/the mother down to them)
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Jan 19, 2024 16:00:52 GMT -5
And to your point on that hypothetical $100K ... $20 per hour for 40 hours per week for 50 weeks out of the year is still "just" $40K and there are waaaaaaay more people living on that than there are making over $100K per year. I know the amount the Drame twins got to leave was quoted to be around there and wasn't considered that much by some, but its a massive difference maker and, going forward, every few thousand is going to count.
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Post by coachd on Jan 23, 2024 17:03:52 GMT -5
Ramon Galloway was a transfer who wanted/needed to come home. Had there been an NIL offer from Temple or Joe's he would have gone home there. Murray and Simmons don't even consider La Salle in today's climate. Steve Smith was a great get, but considering...again...the NIL money at play for a top 10 player in the city. I just don't see La Salle making the final list. Maybe I'm wrong. The last eight years would indicate that I'm not. The last three years would REALLY indicate that I'm not. Hello, McFly! Come back to the future and help us fix this NIL nonsense and portal without restrictions bullshyte... hopefully it isn't too late for the small private schools like us and most others in the A10. |
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