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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 0:08:07 GMT -5
Go back to G. It’s Colleen’s fault. We need Brickus to stay. Upgrade the assistant coaches.
Guys, none of these things are the cause of or solution to the problems. La Salle cannot win at this level by being normal. School can barely stay open by being normal. If the basketball team is going to win, it is going to need an identity outside what you’re considering with players that do not have the interest of A10 school. There’s no silver bullet. Lionel Simmons or Steve Smith or Aaric Murray or Ramon Galloway are not walking through that door anymore. You’re going to get the undersized guards that you like, but you can’t stack three of them. Everybody has to be able to shoot. You have to have a system that gets around the obvious weaknesses that will definitely exist on your roster.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Jan 16, 2024 9:49:44 GMT -5
Go back to G. It’s Colleen’s fault. We need Brickus to stay. Upgrade the assistant coaches. Guys, none of these things are the cause of or solution to the problems. La Salle cannot win at this level by being normal. School can barely stay open by being normal. If the basketball team is going to win, it is going to need an identity outside what you’re considering with players that do not have the interest of A10 school. There’s no silver bullet. Lionel Simmons or Steve Smith or Aaric Murray or Ramon Galloway are not walking through that door anymore. You’re going to get the undersized guards that you like, but you can’t stack three of them. Everybody has to be able to shoot. You have to have a system that gets around the obvious weaknesses that will definitely exist on your roster. Joe if what you are saying is correct "There’s no silver bullet. Lionel Simmons or Steve Smith or Aaric Murray or Ramon Galloway are not walking through that door anymore". that is pretty damming. A slow drip but this has been our life blood for 40 years+. What makes you so certain of this? What makes you come to this conclusion? |
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Post by theneumann64 on Jan 16, 2024 10:18:03 GMT -5
I guess I can save this discussion for a few more months, but I basically agree with Joe, assuming I'm understanding him correctly. It's easy to blame Ash Howard or Colleen Hanycz or Tom Brennan or Speedy Morris for the situation La Salle basketball is in in 2024. And sure, there's plenty of criticism to go around.
But the team's been to the postseason twice in 30 years. Both years they had Ramon Galloway. The median season is probably around 13 wins and a bottom 6 finish in the A-10. Our big news this year, (which I'm totally glad they're doing and realize it was the only realistic option), is a renovated Tom Gola Arena, not a new building. I'm excited about that mostly just because it'll make for a more enjoyable Game Day experience and it will be less embarrassing as a representation of the program. But I've got no illusions its going to turn the program around.
We hired a coach in his 70's. He's a great coach and I think he's doing a decent enough job overall. We've got what, maybe 2 more years left with him after this? Is the program going to be in significantly better shape after he leaves?
It's not any one person's fault. It's not a thing that gets turned around with any one thing. Truthfully, I don't know if it's something that CAN get turned around when you factor all the variables in.
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Post by las71 on Jan 16, 2024 10:46:34 GMT -5
So many issues going forward. Starting with who's going to replace Dunphy. We have to get this decision right. We need somebody who can coach kids up because we may never be able to move up in the A 10 on recruited talent alone. Another big decision lies in deciding who we are. Are we an A 10 program or do we need to move down a notch.Whatever decision we make about a conference, once the choice is made we have to provide the resources to be successful in that conference.Besides winning what else can be done to improve the game day experience and make people want to be in the Glazer on game day. We have an aging fan base so we must find a way to get students and younger alums in the building. We have improved our use of social media and should continue to improve our use of those sites as a way to publicize our program. I think the intro video is terrific and will be even more so when we have the larger overhead screen with better sound quality. Whatever is decided we must totally commit to it.
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 16, 2024 10:58:27 GMT -5
I wish Khalil would stop trying to win this game by himself. Neither Rokas or Ryan match up with St. Joe's size. I understand that Rokas may be playing hurt but he's got to go up stronger and dunk the ball. Gets way too many shots blocked St. Joe's - 40 ; La Salle - 12 ORs : St. Joe's - 17 ; La Salle - 7 DRs : St. Joe's - 32 ; La Salle - 13. |
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Post by explorer88 on Jan 16, 2024 11:02:01 GMT -5
How many post seasons has Duquesne made 2013?
How many post season has Fordham made 2013?
How many post seasons has GW made since 2013?
How many post seasons has UMASS made since 2013?
How many post seasons has George Mason made since 2013?
How many post seasons has Rhode Island made since 2013?
How many seasons has St. Joe's made since 2013?
This isn't a La Salle problem only. A lot of schools in this conference are struggling to make the post season. Other than Dayton almost all the schools are struggling. You can make the argument St. Louis/Davidson and Richmond have had some success but the rest are struggling. Before Loyola made their magical run they did nothing since the 1960's I believe.
La Salle sweet spot is probably in a conference with the small A-10 schools and the top MAAC schools combining to form a conference. That is not likely to happen. So La Salle's decision is current A-10 or current conference like the MAAC.
As a fan I don't think I could support a move down to the MAAC. Maybe that changes as the A-10 loses more and more cache from the changes in college basketball but I am not there yet. I still think the right coach and right system can bear fruit for La Salle every 2 out of 10 years. If you don't see that I can understand questioning staying in the A-10. For me, a move down is no guarantee to better the odds.
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Post by hykos1045 on Jan 16, 2024 11:07:47 GMT -5
How many post seasons has Duquesne made 2013? How many post season has Fordham made 2013? How many post seasons has GW made since 2013? How many post seasons has UMASS made since 2013? How many post seasons has George Mason made since 2013? How many post seasons has Rhode Island made since 2013? How many seasons has St. Joe's made since 2013? This isn't a La Salle problem only. A lot of schools in this conference are struggling to make the post season. Other than Dayton almost all the schools are struggling. You can make the argument St. Louis/Davidson and Richmond have had some success but the rest are struggling. Before Loyola made their magical run they did nothing since the 1960's I believe. La Salle sweet spot is probably in a conference with the small A-10 schools and the top MAAC schools combining to form a conference. That is not likely to happen. So La Salle's decision is current A-10 or current conference like the MAAC. As a fan I don't think I could support a move down to the MAAC. Maybe that changes as the A-10 loses more and more cache from the changes in college basketball but I am not there yet. I still think the right coach and right system can bear fruit for La Salle every 2 out of 10 years. If you don't see that I can understand questioning staying in the A-10. For me, a move down is no guarantee to better the odds. I am glad you came to terms with this reality. Somebody once posted on here back in the day that they should be dancing 5 out of every 10 years. The reason why "G caught lightning in a bottle" was he was just crazy enough to believe that they had a chance, and people bought in, one time. After that, I don't mean to knock our guys, but maybe they assumed it would be theirs for the taking? And after beating Temple one more time, and owning SJU in the three years following, the penchant for winning just dissolved. |
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Post by boballen84 on Jan 16, 2024 11:11:31 GMT -5
Team played ok but need more talent and some front court players.Coach Fran doing his best but need to find more talent somewhere. Hoping for a strong rest of the sesason. Bob toltzis
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 16, 2024 11:20:18 GMT -5
What do you expect him to do? The continuous accusations that the athletic directors don’t do enough is gross. There’s been one athletic director in the last 25 years you could say that about. Correction IMO : Two ( 8 /2019 - 3 /2023 ).  |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 12:05:53 GMT -5
Agree to disagree
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jan 16, 2024 12:37:55 GMT -5
How many post seasons has Duquesne made 2013? How many post season has Fordham made 2013? How many post seasons has GW made since 2013? How many post seasons has UMASS made since 2013? How many post seasons has George Mason made since 2013? How many post seasons has Rhode Island made since 2013? How many seasons has St. Joe's made since 2013? Duquesne - 2 CBI appearances Fordham - 1 CIT appearance GW - 1 NCAA, 2 NIT, and 1 CBI appearance UMass - 1 NCAA appearance George Mason - 1 CBI appearance Rhode Island - 2 NCAA and 1 NIT appearance St. Joe's - 2 NCAA appearances |
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Post by MisterD on Jan 16, 2024 12:56:29 GMT -5
Wonder how many above would trade in their postseason successes (such as one CIT appearance) for our 2013 run.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 12:56:54 GMT -5
Take Rhode Island out. This proves his point. The measuring stick for more than 50% of the A10 is closer to La Salle than Dayton or VCU. The juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore, at least when it comes to men's basketball.
I've done long posts about conference affiliation based upon size, money and geography. But let's just take potential talent into question. La Salle is not going to get the players to play as they've been playing and expect long term results. You can probably win 18-20 games. You can beat the best in the conference once. But winning the A10 tournament? Winning enough A10 games to get near an at-large bid? I just don't think that with NIL and with the A10 as currently constructed, that the school can compete at the level needed if the plan is to just play like everyone else.
I keep saying that, I know, but unless La Salle is going to do something radical gameplan wise...purgatory it is.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 16, 2024 13:02:31 GMT -5
Take Rhode Island out. This proves his point. The measuring stick for more than 50% of the A10 is closer to La Salle than Dayton or VCU. The juice isn't worth the squeeze anymore, at least when it comes to men's basketball. I've done long posts about conference affiliation based upon size, money and geography. But let's just take potential talent into question. La Salle is not going to get the players to play as they've been playing and expect long term results. You can probably win 18-20 games. You can beat the best in the conference once. But winning the A10 tournament? Winning enough A10 games to get near an at-large bid? I just don't think that with NIL and with the A10 as currently constructed, that the school can compete at the level needed if the plan is to just play like everyone else. I keep saying that, I know, but unless La Salle is going to do something radical gameplan wise...purgatory it is. So you want a "systems coach?" Princeton or something like that? |
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Post by calsufan on Jan 16, 2024 13:18:53 GMT -5
Either a systems coach or a coach that can identify underrecruited talent or raw talent and coach them up. Easier said than done. Either type of coach is hard to find and then retain.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 16, 2024 13:28:45 GMT -5
Wonder how many above would trade in their postseason successes (such as one CIT appearance) for our 2013 run. I'm going to guess only URI if any... |
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Post by explorerburger on Jan 16, 2024 14:02:55 GMT -5
I should admit up front that I am not really qualified to advance this discussion, but that has rarely stopped me before, so here goes:
I have never believed that La Salle could compete in the A-10. (Let's not even discuss the MCC debacle). I definitely thought that the school had outgrown the MAAC, but the A-10 struck me as too far a reach; as I watched players like Eddie Jones, Lou Roe, Mark Jackson, and Marcus Camby tear it up for other A-10 schools (during a much simpler era, for the record), I had to wonder who in the world we thought we were. Did anyone think that Speedy was on the same level as Calipari or Chaney?
Making that leap required a single-minded focus that La Salle never really seems to have. It requires leadership that was very weak long before our favorite punching bag ex-president. It requires accountability from a Board that we've been complaining about since the days of the old message board. It requires fundraising and institutional endowment acumen that have always been embarrassing. It requires communication that gives donors and alumni something to believe and invest in. It requires talking about the realities of today rather than the glory of our distant past. And all of this demands a culture shift that sometimes has shown signs of life, but typically sputters.
There did seem to be moments where a turn-around was possible. I sincerely thought Hahn would be the answer. I sincerely thought that the Sweet 16 run would be a catalyst. But it feels as though people expected success to organically happen without building an ecosystem that would foster success.
My belief largely pre-dates the seismic shift that's been happening in collegiate sports for at least 15 years, with all of the conference realignments and NIL deals, and other factors that leave small schools smaller than ever. This school has lacked an identity for a very long time. And now, losing and being broke seems to be the identity that organically took root in the absence of our advancing a different narrative.
La Salle -- like all organizations -- must first account for who is it and who is has been for the past 30 years before it can ever craft an accountable vision for who it can become. Instead, we talk about tradition and legends from past decades. That makes us akin to the Washington Commanders of this league.
In the absence of that shift, I can think of no better alternative for us than the CAA or Patriot Leagues. And even then, our administration would have some work to do in order to hang with those schools. That's how I feel, and it is more or less how I've always felt.
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Post by theneumann64 on Jan 16, 2024 14:24:45 GMT -5
La Salle -- like all organizations -- must first account for who is it and who is has been for the past 30 years before it can ever craft an accountable vision for who it can become. Instead, we talk about tradition and legends from past decades. That makes us akin to the Washington Commanders of this league. This is the part that is probably the hardest pill to swallow for some- but here it is: La Salle's history is basically all but irrelevant to the present discussion. Certainly things that happened in 1954 and 1969 are. The 1986-1990 era matters barely more than that, and the 2013 run fades more and more into obscurity every day. I love sports history, do a podcast about sports history topics, watch old sports clips and games in my free time. Our history- most of which you have to be over 45 to even remember any of it, is not going to save us. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 14:27:00 GMT -5
So you want a "systems coach?" Princeton or something like that? I think that something as radical or more radical than Princeton needs to happen if La Salle wants to compete in the Atlantic 10 routinely. The players you can get to run something specific and special are findable. The players you can find to run a flex offense aren't going to be good enough to beat Dayton or VCU or St. Joe's. The second part of this...finding a coach that both recruits really really well AND coaches really really well seems to be impossible for La Salle. When Dunphy was at Penn, he could coach better than the rest of the ivies with Ivy level talent. When he was at Temple, he could coach better than the rest of the A10 (but not the AAC) with A10 level talent...even though Temple had slightly above A10 level talent. At La Salle, the gulf between La Salle's pool and Dayton's pool is too wide. You can get one or two of those players, but they have 10 of them. And they have the ones that do what you want them to do. So I don't know if there is a system out there anymore. Things have become pretty vanilla. Davidson is probably the best comp, but even Mckillop's system is a few years in the past. They were able to compete because their players did what they did better than everyone else. Having Steph Curry for a couple years probably didn't hurt , but they were good before that. And they did it with players that were not the most heavily recruited guys. I don't know. Lots to think about. |
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 16, 2024 15:23:04 GMT -5
I'm cool with a Princeton offense.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jan 16, 2024 15:52:30 GMT -5
La Salle's history is basically all but irrelevant to the present discussion. and the 2013 run fades more and more into obscurity every day. Was just lamenting the other day that my son, who is currently a senior in high school, was in 1st grade during this run. Kids applying to college today have no memory of this run. It is completely irrelevant at this point. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 15:55:13 GMT -5
I'm cool with a Princeton offense. And I've held off making this comparison because there is nobody that runs it at the A10 level with any success except for Mooney. It's why when Kevin McGeehan's (Campbell University) name was bandied about that final day or two I was all in. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 16, 2024 15:56:52 GMT -5
La Salle's history is basically all but irrelevant to the present discussion. and the 2013 run fades more and more into obscurity every day. Kids applying to college today have no memory of this run. It is completely irrelevant at this point. I'd argue it was irrelevant to kids applying to college two years after. La Salle missed an opportunity that year, believing that it was something that would (could?) happen again. |
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 16, 2024 16:42:19 GMT -5
Kids applying to college today have no memory of this run. It is completely irrelevant at this point. I'd argue it was irrelevant to kids applying to college two years after. La Salle missed an opportunity that year, believing that it was something that would (could?) happen again. The team that inexplicably went 15-16 the year after the Sweet 16 was the killer of all that momentum. Had we continued the string with another NCAA bid, maybe this arena or renovation gets done by 2016. Instead, we hitch our wagon to Jordan Price and the rest is history... |
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Post by walkon on Jan 16, 2024 17:32:23 GMT -5
How many post seasons has Duquesne made 2013? How many post season has Fordham made 2013? How many post seasons has GW made since 2013? How many post seasons has UMASS made since 2013? How many post seasons has George Mason made since 2013? How many post seasons has Rhode Island made since 2013? How many seasons has St. Joe's made since 2013? This isn't a La Salle problem only. A lot of schools in this conference are struggling to make the post season. Other than Dayton almost all the schools are struggling. You can make the argument St. Louis/Davidson and Richmond have had some success but the rest are struggling. Before Loyola made their magical run they did nothing since the 1960's I believe. La Salle sweet spot is probably in a conference with the small A-10 schools and the top MAAC schools combining to form a conference. That is not likely to happen. So La Salle's decision is current A-10 or current conference like the MAAC. As a fan I don't think I could support a move down to the MAAC. Maybe that changes as the A-10 loses more and more cache from the changes in college basketball but I am not there yet. I still think the right coach and right system can bear fruit for La Salle every 2 out of 10 years. If you don't see that I can understand questioning staying in the A-10. For me, a move down is no guarantee to better the odds. I am glad you came to terms with this reality. Somebody once posted on here back in the day that they should be dancing 5 out of every 10 years. The reason why "G caught lightning in a bottle" was he was just crazy enough to believe that they had a chance, and people bought in, one time. After that, I don't mean to knock our guys, but maybe they assumed it would be theirs for the taking? And after beating Temple one more time, and owning SJU in the three years following, the penchant for winning just dissolved. I have been thinking the same exact thing, but didn’t feel like spelling it out. |
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Post by explorerman on Jan 16, 2024 18:01:38 GMT -5
I'd argue it was irrelevant to kids applying to college two years after. La Salle missed an opportunity that year, believing that it was something that would (could?) happen again. The team that inexplicably went 15-16 the year after the Sweet 16 was the killer of all that momentum. Had we continued the string with another NCAA bid, maybe this arena or renovation gets done by 2016. Instead, we hitch our wagon to Jordan Price and the rest is history... “once we get good, we're going to stay good” |
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Post by explorerman on Jan 16, 2024 18:13:13 GMT -5
2 things:
1) Leadership is committed to staying in the A-10. Nothing else even thought of. Dr Allen knows how valuable this real estate is. Zero percent chance they would get the money they needed for Glazer.
2) There was a ton of interest in the job when it became open. By all types of names that you would know. Everyone calling in favors to try to get top of list (more so the second time). But both times a lot of interest. Ashley was the splash, hot hire. Dunphy was going to the mold the talent that Ashley had amassed as the “master recruiter”.
There will be a ton of interest in the job when Dunphy retires.
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Post by explorerburger on Jan 16, 2024 18:28:46 GMT -5
I'd argue it was irrelevant to kids applying to college two years after. La Salle missed an opportunity that year, believing that it was something that would (could?) happen again. The team that inexplicably went 15-16 the year after the Sweet 16 was the killer of all that momentum. Had we continued the string with another NCAA bid, maybe this arena or renovation gets done by 2016. Instead, we hitch our wagon to Jordan Price and the rest is history... I used to think similar things when I fantasized about Kobe coming to La Salle for a year. (None of us ever believed this was going to happen, but anyone who was connected to the program at that time and tells you that they didn't fantasize about it is lying to you). But I eventually realized that would have just extended Speedy's stay by another 7-8 years, and the admin would have sat on their butts and felt content not to make the needed investments to bring the program into the modern era. Of course, the difference is that by 2014, the school knew it couldn't screw around anymore. Still, I frankly don't always trust the school to holistically capitalize on opportunities. Either way, that season was without a doubt the gut punch we could not afford. No argument from me. |
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Post by lasallejohn on Jan 16, 2024 19:12:18 GMT -5
It’s embarrassing what a loss to SJU has devolved into…
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 16, 2024 20:11:57 GMT -5
Circling back to the subject matter at hand, more so than the big picture view, we were picked to finish last in the A10 this season. Several people on here were crowing in the non-league part of the schedule about the prediction being wrong, despite mostly beating cupcake city and losing to any formidable opponent. It's now looking as though the pre-season predictions were close to accurate. We may not be the worst team in the A10, but we are the 2nd or 3rd worst. It's upsetting, because Dunph is probably the best coach La Salle has had in my lifetime, and I'm 40.
Whether Fran is coaching here for another season or 3, I'd like to see a progression of things, and not an Ashley Howard or Giannini (the last 2 or 3 years) meandering of treading water.
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