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Post by a10champion15 on Dec 17, 2020 12:40:26 GMT -5
It is fair, 6 games in, to ask, "Are we where we expected to be?" St. John's - below expectations with sloppy play, turnovers, and FT shooting. Wasn't expecting a W, but expected to see more St. Peter's - below expectations; expected a win Army - below expectations; expected a win Lincoln U - Met expectations with a W Drexel - Met expectations with a W UMass - below expectations; met them in the first half but did not play the full 40 with intensity; had no game plan for Mitchell; lost by higher margins than last year. Again, wasn't expecting a win but expected to see more. 20% of the season is done at this point. If this was Ash's first year, then these results wouldn't be too alarming, but we are in year 3. Do we wait two more years? That feels like our mantra all the time. We aren't the kind of program that's going to be turned around 6 games into year 3. As a lot of people have said, La Salle is a challenging job and we aren't going to know if Ash is the answer until the end of year 4 or 5. I like to compare it to Schmidt who took over St Bona's when their program was a sh*t storm. Pikelli when he took over both Stony Brook and Rutgers. Jay Wright time at Hoftsra. It took these guys time but now look at them. Is Ash's career going to have a similar trend? I have no idea. This team isn't this big trainwreck. They have holes in there roster and how they're offense but overall, his teams have been trending up analytically each year.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 17, 2020 13:28:27 GMT -5
we aren't going to know if Ash is the answer until the end of year 4 or 5. So a decision will have to be made at the end of year 4, if is not made sooner, on whether Ash is the coach for another period of years. Coaches generally do not go into the last year of their contract with some exceptions, of course. We'll have another recruiting class and 50 or so more games at that point to figure this out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 13:43:01 GMT -5
I don’t think anyone realizes just how hard it is to build a program, here. We are competing in a league where we have hands down the worst facilities, in an urban environment that isn’t necessarily the most appealing. Sure, we can put together some competitive teams. But until we address the major issues of this program, we will never see sustainable success, especially in this conference. That doesn’t make up for missed free-throw‘s, reckless passing, etc. but I think looking at the larger picture this is certainly a continuing trend. Just my two cents. No one is going to argue with facilities, location, etc. However, there are ways to get a program trending the right way. Recruit hard workers that are disciplined and want to work. Sure, these guys might seem overmatched as freshman and sophomores, but if they limit mistakes, work hard, you can win some games. It's crazy how far a team can go if they have good positions and put in max effort. Look at what Schmidt has done at Bonnies. He takes kids from canada, From Juco, from everywhere (especially 4-6 years ago before they were winning all the time) and he turns them into winners. It seems like he basically takes what would be top MAAC, CAA, American East players, gets them to Olean and turns them into something. Bonnies do have good support from the community (it's all they have), but you want to talk about a place that isn't desirable.... Ultimately, the facilities are a poor excuse, you have to get the kids that will work their tails off for 4 or 5 years, get better and win with them. I think Christian Ray fits this mold. I think someone like Brickus will fit this. I think Jack Clark does as well. I don't see Kenney being this, he's used to being THE guy and doesn't seem interested in defense or discipline. I know Beatty will be gone, but he is very similar to Hikim in my opinion. Sometimes he gives 110% sometimes he gives 40%. Some guys on the roster you can say probably have that drive, some just don't. And you need a team with 12 of those guys if you want to win, even if they are less skilled, a little shorter, less athletic, they can make up for that by being the most disciplined and hardest working team. They won't beat everyone that way, but they will win enough A10 games and will beat the St. Peter's and Armys of the world.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 17, 2020 14:02:00 GMT -5
I don’t think anyone realizes just how hard it is to build a program, here. We are competing in a league where we have hands down the worst facilities, in an urban environment that isn’t necessarily the most appealing. Sure, we can put together some competitive teams. But until we address the major issues of this program, we will never see sustainable success, especially in this conference. That doesn’t make up for missed free-throw‘s, reckless passing, etc. but I think looking at the larger picture this is certainly a continuing trend. Just my two cents. Recruit hard workers that are disciplined and want to work. Not a lol guy but lol.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Dec 17, 2020 14:05:51 GMT -5
Recruit hard workers that are disciplined and want to work. Sure, these guys might seem overmatched as freshman and sophomores, but if they limit mistakes, work hard, you can win some games. Are you recruiting these guys in a single class or at all times are you giving experience minutes to overmatched freshmen and sophomores in perpetuity?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 17, 2020 14:07:05 GMT -5
Recruit hard workers that are disciplined and want to work. Sure, these guys might seem overmatched as freshman and sophomores, but if they limit mistakes, work hard, you can win some games. Are you recruiting these guys in a single class or at all times are you giving experience minutes to overmatched freshmen and sophomores in perpetuity? Depends on how hard they work.
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Post by explorer88 on Dec 17, 2020 14:51:56 GMT -5
Nobody is arguing the facilities are the worst and hamstrings this program every year. I have been complaining about that for 15 years.
However, to use that as a reason to give Ash a pass is ridiculous. G had the same issue as did every coach since Speedy when facilities became an asset to use for a program.
Ash was hired to make La Salle better than it was. As we stand now, we are not better. La Salle has to make a decision after next year. You can't let him be a lame duck for his 5th year. So those who think we have plenty of time we really don't and Ash really doesn't have a lot of time. He needs show improvement this year to have a chance of being a decent program at the end of next year when he La Salle need to sit down and make a decision.
I just don't think we are going to turn it on next year and become some rising program all of a sudden. I would really feel a whole lot better if we started to show improvement very soon.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 17, 2020 14:57:28 GMT -5
show improvement very soon. Can you define that?
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Post by a10champion15 on Dec 17, 2020 14:57:34 GMT -5
@exploring15 come on man. All these kids going to D1 basketball schools are trying to work hard. Everyone's college or professional career is different so while it's nice to say we need to recruit hard workers it doesn't mean anything. Like of course they are.
On paper Ash's recruiting is solid, we have to wait and see how the sophomores and freshmen classes develop. We aren't going to know much right now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 15:10:45 GMT -5
Are you recruiting these guys in a single class or at all times are you giving experience minutes to overmatched freshmen and sophomores in perpetuity? Depends on how hard they work. I mean joe wants to just be a clown and take things out of context. You build a program by having players that buy in and have the intangibles. Obviously if the freshmen and sophomores are doing that, as they move up they’ll continue to and build a strong culture. Ash hasn’t recruited those guys and it shows. He has 1 or 2 of them. You need them all to have that mentality. Of an entire paragraph you want to take a half of a sentence and act like that’s everything I said. Congratulations on having absolutely no argument and just blaming the facilities for EVERYTHING.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 15:13:27 GMT -5
@exploring15 come on man. All these kids going to D1 basketball schools are trying to work hard. Everyone's college or professional career is different so while it's nice to say we need to recruit hard workers it doesn't mean anything. Like of course they are. On paper Ash's recruiting is solid, we have to wait and see how the sophomores and freshmen classes develop. We aren't going to know much right now. I’m not saying they don’t work hard. But the lack of discipline and focus shows every game. Have you not seen how often kenney gets beat back door? Did you miss Beatty Against army throw an awful post pass? Hang his head? Not get back on defense for 5 seconds. Finally Half ass it back on defense, then get beat, and then commit a foul. That’s a common theme with these teams. And it’s a common theme for losing teams.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 17, 2020 16:02:59 GMT -5
@exploring15 come on man. All these kids going to D1 basketball schools are trying to work hard. Everyone's college or professional career is different so while it's nice to say we need to recruit hard workers it doesn't mean anything. Like of course they are. On paper Ash's recruiting is solid, we have to wait and see how the sophomores and freshmen classes develop. We aren't going to know much right now. I’m not saying they don’t work hard. The first thing you said in your little blurb about fixing the team was "Recruit guys that work hard." Since you are so down on the coach and team, wouldn't the assumption be that you didn't think that the guys work hard? They're your words.
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Post by explorergrad08 on Dec 17, 2020 21:06:55 GMT -5
Depends on how hard they work. I mean joe wants to just be a clown and take things out of context. You build a program by having players that buy in and have the intangibles. Obviously if the freshmen and sophomores are doing that, as they move up they’ll continue to and build a strong culture. Ash hasn’t recruited those guys and it shows. He has 1 or 2 of them. You need them all to have that mentality. Of an entire paragraph you want to take a half of a sentence and act like that’s everything I said. Congratulations on having absolutely no argument and just blaming the facilities for EVERYTHING. There has to be a give and take, especially at La Salle. You need talent to win. That's the bottom line. A bunch of Christian Rays (no offense to him at all) aren't going to be successful in the A-10. In order to get the talent to win in the A-10, with bad facilities and no winning tradition that any 18-22 year old cares about, you have to take chances. Sherif Kenney has shown glimpses of being a high-major talent. He's also shown that he disappears and is disinterested at times. He's a guy you need to take a chance on at La Salle, and hope he hits. Maybe by his junior year, a light goes on. Maybe it doesn't. But you take the chance. The one thing that has me optimistic is that the quality of talent has improved each recruiting class. Granted there are only two, but Gill & Brickus are already two of the top 6 players on the team in terms of production. Izay is a project, but a 6-10 one that appears to have some ability. The kid Shepard that has signed for next year is an elite athlete. He's on the BJ Johnson scale (again, not saying he's that level of player right now, but he is that type of an athlete). Throw in a pandemic, nobody playing for 5 months, especially those that don't have access to gyms, this year is not going to be what it could have been with all the preparation. And even then, it was always going to be a young team that should get better as the year goes on. Drexel just beat St. Joe's. La Salle beat Drexel by double digits. Let's have some perspective and patience.
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Post by milkoliverwurst on Dec 17, 2020 21:41:24 GMT -5
I mean joe wants to just be a clown and take things out of context. You build a program by having players that buy in and have the intangibles. Obviously if the freshmen and sophomores are doing that, as they move up they’ll continue to and build a strong culture. Ash hasn’t recruited those guys and it shows. He has 1 or 2 of them. You need them all to have that mentality. Of an entire paragraph you want to take a half of a sentence and act like that’s everything I said. Congratulations on having absolutely no argument and just blaming the facilities for EVERYTHING. There has to be a give and take, especially at La Salle. You need talent to win. That's the bottom line. A bunch of Christian Rays (no offense to him at all) aren't going to be successful in the A-10. In order to get the talent to win in the A-10, with bad facilities and no winning tradition that any 18-22 year old cares about, you have to take chances. Sherif Kenney has shown glimpses of being a high-major talent. He's also shown that he disappears and is disinterested at times. He's a guy you need to take a chance on at La Salle, and hope he hits. Maybe by his junior year, a light goes on. Maybe it doesn't. But you take the chance. The one thing that has me optimistic is that the quality of talent has improved each recruiting class. Granted there are only two, but Gill & Brickus are already two of the top 6 players on the team in terms of production. Izay is a project, but a 6-10 one that appears to have some ability. The kid Shepard that has signed for next year is an elite athlete. He's on the BJ Johnson scale (again, not saying he's that level of player right now, but he is that type of an athlete). Throw in a pandemic, nobody playing for 5 months, especially those that don't have access to gyms, this year is not going to be what it could have been with all the preparation. And even then, it was always going to be a young team that should get better as the year goes on. Drexel just beat St. Joe's. La Salle beat Drexel by double digits. Let's have some perspective and patience. La Salle basketball. Where we're always two years away from being two years away.
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Post by 1863 on Dec 17, 2020 22:41:27 GMT -5
Perhaps someone with a better understanding of the recruiting process than myself can address these two possibilities/questions for me:
Since a lot of players being recruited from high schools have stated in publications I’ve read that they want to go to a school that has a “night life”/things to do during their off time, it seems that the city of Philadelphia would be a helpful selling point for La Salle. It just surprises me to see good players actually go to remote place like Olean, New York for St. Bonaventure. If Schmidt can sell a recruit on Olean, NY and the coach at Duquesne can convince a recruit that Pittsburgh is the hot spot to be….?? (You can either have social life outside of basketball and academics in Philadelphia or you can sit around and watch the mercury in the thermometer drop all winter in Olean, NY)
I would also think that an unhappy #6, 7, or 8 player at a Penn State, a Rutgers, or a Maryland-type school could be convinced that they would be happier in a more prominent role at a smaller program, like La Salle. (Isn’t it better to be a big fish in a small pond and attract more media attention for yourself, especially if you have professional aspirations, rather than being an invisible nobody on the bench with limited minutes?)
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Dec 17, 2020 22:43:55 GMT -5
La Salle basketball. Where we're always two years away from being two years away. La Salle basketball: Where any hint of optimism is shot down by friendly fire as quickly as possible
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Dec 18, 2020 8:51:53 GMT -5
La Salle basketball. Where we're always two years away from being two years away. La Salle basketball: Where any hint of optimism is shot down by friendly fire as quickly as possible I think the Army Cadets shot down the optimism. (Actually St. Peter's, but it didn't fit the literary flow here).
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Post by explorer88 on Dec 18, 2020 8:56:22 GMT -5
La Salle basketball. Where we're always two years away from being two years away. La Salle basketball: Where any hint of optimism is shot down by friendly fire as quickly as possible Where is that hint of optimism? Please point where the optimism is so I can go there and get optimistic.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Dec 18, 2020 9:05:53 GMT -5
The hint of optimism referred to came from ExplorerGrad08's post, which was shot down. If you're asking me to give you some, just remember we could be winless St. Joseph's of PA with their .171 win percentage* coach.
* Like a true idiot, I miscalculated it yesterday and my error didn't jump out to me because .207 seemed impossibly low.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Dec 18, 2020 10:56:12 GMT -5
There has to be a give and take, especially at La Salle. You need talent to win. That's the bottom line. A bunch of Christian Rays (no offense to him at all) aren't going to be successful in the A-10. Drexel just beat St. Joe's. La Salle beat Drexel by double digits. Let's have some perspective and patience. La Salle basketball. Where we're always two years away from being two years away. I really, really wish I could say that this post contains inaccurate information.
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Post by a10champion15 on Dec 18, 2020 12:08:31 GMT -5
La Salle basketball: Where any hint of optimism is shot down by friendly fire as quickly as possible Where is that hint of optimism? Please point where the optimism is so I can go there and get optimistic. You're not wrong to be skeptical and I'm trying to give you those hints. After this season, we will have a lot to point out what is working and what's not and hopefully, Ash can turn this team into a mid pack A10 team next season. Again, I think a lot of the pieces are there, most need to be developed as is typical with a team with inexperienced players and a new rotation. This team isn't riddled with issues, they have 3 or 4 main problems that have a trickle down effect mainly concentrated around the offense. 1. They lack a star. Can Clark, Gill or Brickus elevate their game as the season progresses? If you're getting more consistency from Spencer, Ray, Hikim, Moore and Beatty their game won't need to elevate as quickly. 2. Turnovers, they have a freshmen and sophomore running the point. The team needs to get their passing under control. 3. FTR and free throw shooting. Practice, practice, practice! 4. Our offensive rebounding has dropped off with the lose of Croswell. Do they improve in each of these of these four areas, no. However, I think a few players are going to be much better players come mid way through A10 play. As Brickus, Hikim and the rotation become more comfortable and build chemistry the turnovers will reduce. The free throw shooting % is a mystery to me but the FTR and offensive rebounding is an issue when you don't attack the basket as much as you should and you don't have a solid forward playing 20+ minutes a game. The latter of the 3 or 4 probably isn't a going to continue to be as bad (FYI it's terrible) but it won't dramatically improve this season. There are more statistical categories this team is better in than worse compared to last year. Everyone brought up last year how bad our shot blocking was. It's now a strength of this team. Our defense overall is much better and we are shooting 3s at a much better %. I truly believe you solve a number of these issues if you clean up the turnovers. You cut down these turnovers, you give players more possessions, you give yourself the opportunity to get to the free throw line, etc.. Okay...that's my last point on all this. On to Delaware. Go Explorers!
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Post by explorer88 on Dec 18, 2020 13:13:10 GMT -5
Where is that hint of optimism? Please point where the optimism is so I can go there and get optimistic. You're not wrong to be skeptical and I'm trying to give you those hints. After this season, we will have a lot to point out what is working and what's not and hopefully, Ash can turn this team into a mid pack A10 team next season. Again, I think a lot of the pieces are there, most need to be developed as is typical with a team with inexperienced players and a new rotation. This team isn't riddled with issues, they have 3 or 4 main problems that have a trickle down effect mainly concentrated around the offense. 1. They lack a star. Can Clark, Gill or Brickus elevate their game as the season progresses? If you're getting more consistency from Spencer, Ray, Hikim, Moore and Beatty their game won't need to elevate as quickly. 2. Turnovers, they have a freshmen and sophomore running the point. The team needs to get their passing under control. 3. FTR and free throw shooting. Practice, practice, practice! 4. Our offensive rebounding has dropped off with the lose of Croswell. Do they improve in each of these of these four areas, no. However, I think a few players are going to be much better players come mid way through A10 play. As Brickus, Hikim and the rotation become more comfortable and build chemistry the turnovers will reduce. The free throw shooting % is a mystery to me but the FTR and offensive rebounding is an issue when you don't attack the basket as much as you should and you don't have a solid forward playing 20+ minutes a game. The latter of the 3 or 4 probably isn't a going to continue to be as bad (FYI it's terrible) but it won't dramatically improve this season. There are more statistical categories this team is better in than worse compared to last year. Everyone brought up last year how bad our shot blocking was. It's now a strength of this team. Our defense overall is much better and we are shooting 3s at a much better %. I truly believe you solve a number of these issues if you clean up the turnovers. You cut down these turnovers, you give players more possessions, you give yourself the opportunity to get to the free throw line, etc.. Okay...that's my last point on all this. On to Delaware. Go Explorers! I appreciate your tenacity 15. I will only be optimistic when I see it on the scoreboard. Too many years have passed with no results but a list of what if's like you have. Hopefully you are right. Time will tell. So far after 6 games not much this team has shown will lead to a successful season this year or next. Keep up the faith.
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