Another embarrassing loss

[cpico]

What's the excuse this time? And yes, that display we just witnessed was embarrassing.

[ltrain38]

Have to agree. We should be better than Charlotte.

[vasalos]

No doubt this loss is a significant setback when compared to the expectations this year. It seems every A10 game will be tough unless we can get our act together. Teams like Butler and VCU, who are playing lights out basketball are going to destroy us. Gotta get back to taking one game at a time starting with Richmond. Richmond is not going to be easy.

[MisterD]

When you shoot 32.5% and your best player goes 7-29, you will lose the game. Coaches can't coach the ball into the hoop, best players like Galloway can't never have bad games. It indicts neither the team nor the player, it just happens because that's life when following humans playing sports. Really, cpico, I can't keep doing this. We're going to lose again and you're going to squeal that you're super embarrassed again and I'll see you here once again I'm sure, but wouldn't it be fun if maybe you thought things through beforehand? We aren't ever going 32-0 and no loss is fun, but you don't have to give yourself 900 papercuts every time.

[cpico]

Jan 10, 2013 0:32:17 GMT -5 MisterD said:

When you shoot 32.5% and your best player goes 7-29, you will lose the game. Coaches can't coach the ball into the hoop, best players like Galloway can't never have bad games. It indicts neither the team nor the player, it just happens because that's life when following humans playing sports. Really, cpico, I can't keep doing this. We're going to lose again and you're going to squeal that you're super embarrassed again and I'll see you here once again I'm sure, but wouldn't it be fun if maybe you thought things through beforehand? We aren't ever going 32-0 and no loss is fun, but you don't have to give yourself 900 papercuts every time.

Oh, I thought things through and that game last night was a disgrace and embarrassment - how could you say it wasn't? We played Charlotte, not VCU. We played a team that will be a middle of the pack team in the A-10 and came out and laid an egg. At some point the team and coaches have to be held responsible.

I can't keep doing this either. I can't keep watching this team fall on it's face time and time again. Start playing like a team. Again, how ANYONE who had to sit through that slop last night can't be down on our team is beyond me. It was an absolute disgrace.

They really came out on fire and ready to go - 17 points in the first half. Give me a break. Another lost season.

[vasalos]

From City of Brotherly Love; If the coach was embarrassed, I think the fans have the right to feel the same way:

“Charlotte did everything better than us in the first half,” La Salle coach John Giannini said. “We were embarrassed by the way we played, we should be much better than that. We played much harder in the second half, but it was just too little, too late.”

Most concerning quote:
“We expected them to be good but we did not expect to be down by that much,” Giannini said. “They won both sides of the court, they defended better than us. We clearly lost the game in the first half.”

This begs the question, was the team prepared for this game with an alternative game plan once things didn't go to plan?

[MisterD]

Dr. Coach can't say "Galloway can't shoot 29 times and make 9". If he did, he'd be a bad coach. You both know this.

[MisterD]

Correction: Make 7.

[explorer88]

Jan 10, 2013 8:12:04 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Dr. Coach can't say "Galloway can't shoot 29 times and make 9". If he did, he'd be a bad coach. You both know this.

Agreed but the coach has to stop the kid from shooting 29 times.

Also where the hell is Duren? He is supposed to be the point guard and get his teamates shots in a position to make baskets. Whether this is his fault or the coaches this needs to be corrected. I thought he was awful against Miami and while I did not watch the entire game last night he was not much better.

[lwc4591]

Are best players are average to slightly above average A10 players that is why Galloway and Garland are back in Philly. Duren is an average point and Mills is slightly below average along with Zack and Wright. I actually thought we would beat Charlotte and had us going 9-7 in the A10 but I have lowered my expectations to 8-8. If we go 7-9 we will not make the NIT. We will beat Richmond Saturday take it to the bank.

[MisterD]

Jan 10, 2013 8:51:36 GMT -5 explorer88 said:

Also where the hell is Duren? He is supposed to be the point guard and get his teamates shots in a position to make baskets. Whether this is his fault or the coaches this needs to be corrected.

Right, and this is a legit critique rather than "every loss makes my face very red with embarrassment and anger". This is the 3rd straight season that we're falling into the "if the senior feels like taking over, the senior is allowed to take over" trap. Granted, Galloway is better than either Ruben or Pettis were, but Galloway also has more competent options on off days. And like you said, I'm a little disappointed Duren either isn't allowed to or doesn't demand the ball and take control of the game in those circumstances.

[mookie]

my thoughts are what i'll say after last game, this team really has no true identity.

when their shots aren't falling they have nothing else to rely on to keep them in games. their defense needs to become stout or they need to be able to get out on the break and run, but in order to do that, they need to be able to grab rebounds and create TOs.

I said in a previous thread that Mills is not a bad option to start and that Garland is probably better off coming off the bench. I still stand by that, but I feel it should be clarified that Mills would max out at 20mpg. Garland is essentially "instant offense" and if you look at the scoring graph from the game, there were about 7 instances where the offense completely stalled. Playing Garland, Duren and Galloway during those times would be beneficial (in my opinion) where Duren asserts himself as the PG and Garland asserts himself as the scorer with Galloway becoming the 2nd option at that point where he's stretching the floor ONLY AFTER duren is unable to create an easy basket for Garland or Garland is unable to create for himself. THAT is where coaching comes into play...they need to have a "go-to" play to prevent scoring droughts. Right now, I don't see them having that play.

Do any of you? Thoughts? Am I wrong or, since I did not watch the game, missing something???

[victoriouslasalle]

Last nights game was such a head scratcher and so is any sense of what the identity of this team is for me. Who are these guys? I had no problem with an evaluation of this team as a mid pack to slightly above average A10 squad. I saw us there. We have the talent to at least fit there. Last night we looked like a bottom feeder.

The lack of consistency with playing D that is getting to be a norm after all the talk from this team about their commitment to it--- is very troubling, come on coach!

The enmass malaise, cold spell episodes with hitting shots, many quite open, that also was seen in the second half of the Miami game, it is hard to just chalk this up to being just one of those things. Maybe it is? Where is our confidence going?

The 1 on 1 stuff seems to be becoming toxic. We have a number of able and talented guards who do not look to distribute the ball enough,team mates standing around watching them. Not enough finding guys for high percentage shots..... come on coach!

Agree MIK, to this last point, Ramon has shown he is more than capable of seeing the court and distributing the basketball when he is cold from the floor.....come on coach!

[lasallescreamer]

Mookie: U r missing nothing. Excellent analysis. Players and coaches have got to get on same page. When shots are falling, covers some of the problems, but those problems still need to be addressed

[cpico]

Jan 10, 2013 9:49:26 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Jan 10, 2013 8:51:36 GMT -5 explorer88 said:

Also where the hell is Duren? He is supposed to be the point guard and get his teamates shots in a position to make baskets. Whether this is his fault or the coaches this needs to be corrected.

Right, and this is a legit critique rather than "every loss makes my face very red with embarrassment and anger". This is the 3rd straight season that we're falling into the "if the senior feels like taking over, the senior is allowed to take over" trap. Granted, Galloway is better than either Ruben or Pettis were, but Galloway also has more competent options on off days. And like you said, I'm a little disappointed Duren either isn't allowed to or doesn't demand the ball and take control of the game in those circumstances.

Last night was an embarrassment and a disgrace. Not rocket science. Scored 17 points in the first half and no one stepped up.

[explorer88]

My thoughts are these:

1. The loss was not what I consider to be embarrassing but disappointing and/or frustrating. Enbarrassing were the Speedy losses to X, Temple, and Rhode Island at Gola when we were down 30 points at halftime. That is embarrassing.

2. Said this over and over. We are too small and can't match up physically with some teams. We have zero defensive presence in the paint. Jerrell can't guard opposing bigs when he is one on one and Zack commits the stupidest fouls that don't need to be committed as it really doesn't affect the play. Kinda like the equivalent of a guard fouling 30 feet from the basket. Sorta like that. Our guards, while they have some skills, are relatively small guards.

3. The offense really has trouble getting easy shots against bigger and more athletic teams and can't get easy shots during crunch time. That contributes to not being able to beat BCS teams. We come out of our offense too often and play one on one basketball, especially when shots are not falling for us and we panic to get back in games.

4. G is an average bench coach. I don't think he is horrible but I also don't think he is strong in that area. For me, he is middle of the pack. I really do think some of our issues are talent related this program. Some of that is his fault and sadly some of that comes from being the coach at La Salle and to where he has little control over improving things like being able to recruit impact frontcourt players. I thought kjmac made a good point last night of not going to the zone when we were getting killed man to man. We need the coach to help in the aspect. When it comes up in game situations I sit there and say to myself I am not sure he is going to make an adjustment. A good bench coach does that before the fans do.

After considering all of that my worry is this...............As currently constructed I am concerned this team has reached it's ceiling. I don't see how we can elevate higher than we are now. I don't think the areas of need are going to change much without redirection. I keep trying to think that is not the case but when I step back and look at things that is what I keep coming back to. I hope I am wrong but my heart and mind are looking at this differently.

Overall I think the program has improved and G these players deserve all the credit for that. We are no longer a lauging stock as some would seem to believe. The question for me truly is can what we have now take us to higher levels. I am just not sure that it can.

Sorry for the long post but that is how things look to me where I am sitting right now.

[theneumann64]

OK, we got that. Can the rest of us actually analyze the game and the team now?

...to the post 2 above mine. MIK jumped in while I was typing.

[mookie]

Jan 10, 2013 10:44:27 GMT -5 explorer88 said:

My thoughts are these:

3. The offense really has trouble getting easy shots against bigger and more athletic teams and can't get easy shots during crunch time. That contributes to not being able to beat BCS teams. We come out of our offense too often and play one on one basketball, especially when shots are not falling for us and we panic to get back in games.

To this point 88, I ask: What is our offense? Every time I watch them I'm reminded of this offensive philosophy: live and die by the 3.

[explorer88]

No short or easy answer mookie I am afraid.

G obviously wants to spread the floor and set high ball screens. I watched Butler and SJU last night and I did not think Butler ran anything much different than we do. The difference I saw were these:

Butler sets much better screens than La Salle does.
Rotnei Clark, who is Ramon's equivalent for Butler, has a little more basketball savy than Ramon has and this affected his teamates play more than what Ramon does for us on offense.
They dump the ball into the post to work inside/out but Andrew Smith is far superior to what we have in our bigs.
They pass the ball much crisper than we do.

So I ask is it coaching or is it talent, or just a little of both?

[mookie]

I usually give a coach the benefit of the doubt when it comes to knowing his personnel and strategy but I'd have to say that with G, I think he feels overwhelmed at times. I sometimes get the feeling that he wants to adjust to his personnel (as he should) but he doesn't know the nuances to minimizing their weaknesses.

For example, I feel this team can shoot (thus spread the floor) and can run as well. However, I don't feel he knows how to get them easy shots when faced with longer defenses or high pressure defenses. It seems like if his strategy is to shoot the 3, then he'll do that and "hope" they go in. He doesn't have them run screens or pick and rolls and such to create easy shots or create mismatches. Running the floor is a little different because we're not monsters on the defensive rebounding area (which is fine), but if our defense is able to play with more intensity & pressure, I think they'll be able to find ways to get out and run creating easy points on the break.

This team definitely has its flaws (personnel-wise) and that's part of the game. Some teams we may just not match up well with and Charlotte may be one of them. But I don't feel this team imposes its will or identity on the opposing team, which (imo) puts this team in a position where it has to rely on talent to win and in D1 athletics, that's not going to be enough.

[cpico]

Jan 10, 2013 10:44:31 GMT -5 theneumann64 said:

OK, we got that. Can the rest of us actually analyze the game and the team now?

...to the post 2 above mine. MIK jumped in while I was typing.

Not many people want La Salle to win more than me. I'm what you would call a die hard. But when you come out like they did in the first half last night and then go on to shoot 4-29 from 3 points - questions about the team and coaching staff have to be raised.

What is there really to critique - the game was really difficult to watch and we shot horribly.

This was a huge game for us and very winnable and we laid an egg. I felt the same in those last 10 minutes of the Miami game when we crumbled. But Charlotte is a lower level opponent than Miami, and Charlotte is a game we should expect to win. These were critical games and in both we came up small.

Our team is thin up front - we know that, so our guards have to play at a high level. Our guards are good, they need to step up and carry the team. When one or two of the guards is struggling the other guards have to step up - it's pretty simple.

[MisterD]

4-29 doesn't beg a question, it answers the question.

Q: Why did La Salle lose?

A: Because they shot 4-29 from 3.

We entered the game in the top 30 in the nation in 3FG%, its like the most important part of our offense. If that fails, we're going to fail.

[coqui900]

As far as the zone goes, our team's best strength on defense is our guards doing absolutely everything they can to disrupt an offense. When we do that well, we create havoc everywhere on the court. Teams can't get their sets moving. That wasn't too different from what we did last night -- it's not like Charlotte was lights out or tore us apart on their end. Our problem last night was the 17 first half points. Charlotte scored in the 70s but also consider how fast-paced the game was the second half and there were also a lot of FTs.

Charlotte also did a really smart thing in the first half which I haven't seen anyone do against us yet. After they broke half-court, they went into a four corners offense and really spread the court. Everyone else has just tried to get into their normal set pretty much. But they went into that four corners and ran the offense from there and it worked wonders. They had better driving lanes and kick-out attempts. That was a smart bit of coaching. We countered after a few takes by sagging off on defense but that was when Charlotte started to pull ahead.

Also, we've run a zone literally no more than 10 minutes all year. If we went zone and Charlotte won, we'd all be saying why did G do that instead of playing to the team's strength and what they always run?

My main complaint about G is that he panic subs. People get pulled right away for not rotating on a screen or not boxing out. That's fine and dandy but it's also hard to get into a flow. Sometimes you just have to ignore a dumb mistake.