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Post by coachd on Nov 23, 2021 11:47:42 GMT -5
The most noteworthy protest of the protest comes from James Maguire, one of Philadelphia’s largest and most influential financial benefactors, who sent a letter Thursday to Penn president Amy Gutmann, stating, “I am serving notice to you that the Maguire Foundation and I personally will not be renewing any scholarship gifts or pledges (present or future) nor undertaking any future commitments to Penn.” “By copy of this letter I am asking Saint Joseph’s to uninvite your team to their campus on December 8th for that game,” Maguire wrote in the letter to Gutmann. “To openly support disrespect to our country and to our flag is wrong and I do not want to be part of this disrespect.” www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/one-penn-benefactor-says-hes-pulling-his-donations-because-of-national-anthem-protests/ar-AAR2fk1 |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 23, 2021 13:53:35 GMT -5
Seems like a blowhard tbh.
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Post by explorer88 on Nov 23, 2021 14:39:39 GMT -5
Why is he a blowhard? Because he pulled his support for something he thought was important and the people he was previously supporting didn't feel the same?
Happens all the time.
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Post by las71 on Nov 23, 2021 14:43:33 GMT -5
Maguire has the right to do whatever he wants with his money but wouldn't it be useful if he met with the Penn players to hear their thoughts and explain his. Advising St. Josephs to uninvite Penn to the upcoming game may be a bit much. How many teams that kneel or sit are on the Hawks schedule? Do they uninvite them all? To their credit, I believe St. Joe's has already announced that the Penn game is on.
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Post by a10champion15 on Nov 23, 2021 14:43:54 GMT -5
Why is he a blowhard? Because he pulled his support for something he thought was important and the people he was previously supporting didn't feel the same? Happens all the time. That's fine. You can pull your support for whatever you believe in. But he went to the media, provided his statement and asked Penn to cancel it's game against St Joe's. If that ain't a blow hard move I don't know what is. |
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Post by explorer88 on Nov 23, 2021 14:48:50 GMT -5
Maguire has the right to do whatever he wants with his money but wouldn't it be useful if he met with the Penn players to hear their thoughts and explain his. Advising St. Josephs to uninvite Penn to the upcoming game may be a bit much. How many teams that kneel or sit are on the Hawks schedule? Do they uninvite them all? To their credit, I believe St. Joe's has already announced that the Penn game is on. That is a fair point. I assume he believes he has more power pitting those two teams against each other than Penn and other teams he not no affiliation with. |
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Post by coachd on Nov 23, 2021 15:09:02 GMT -5
Maguire has the right to do whatever he wants with his money but wouldn't it be useful if he met with the Penn players to hear their thoughts and explain his. Advising St. Josephs to uninvite Penn to the upcoming game may be a bit much. How many teams that kneel or sit are on the Hawks schedule? Do they uninvite them all? To their credit, I believe St. Joe's has already announced that the Penn game is on. That is a fair point. I assume he believes he has more power pitting those two teams against each other than Penn and other teams he not no affiliation with. Actually he does donate to St. Joe's also. He has a right to voice his opinion and spend his fortune as he chooses. He has done a ton of great things for charities and helping students throughout his life so he is anything but a blowhard. I wouldn't expect the Hawks to cancel their game but they may wish they had after the Quakers demolish them. But as far as the Penn student/athletes, if they don't think they are being treated fairly in this country I could point them to almost any other country (probably every other country) on the globe where they would be treated much worse. Maguire, in a separate note, said he had “jumped out of planes, froze my a— off, saluted my American flag every day and loved my country with all its shortcomings.” Noting that after graduating from St. Joseph’s, there on the GI bill, he had founded the Philadelphia Insurance Company, and after selling it in 2018 for $4.7 billion, that he and his wife had contributed $1 billion “to specifically fund education, with over 2,500 scholarship students today at over 90 institutions, including at Penn.” His philanthropy has gone beyond education. The Maguire Foundation is a major donor, for instance, to Project Home, fighting homelessness in Philadelphia. |
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Post by gymrat67 on Nov 23, 2021 15:26:47 GMT -5
' Bit of a sticky wicket ' for both ( outgoing ) Penn president Amy Gutmann and St. Joe's president Mark Reed.
Hawk Hill Hardwood post :
'' There are many ways that our communications VP could have handled a response to the Inquirer and she chose about the worst way to say it, dismissing Jim Maguire while ' declining to otherwise comment .' Maybe she should have lead with the ' declining comment ' part first. "
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Post by hykos1045 on Nov 23, 2021 16:05:26 GMT -5
Great development! Because if you hadn't heard of their silent, symbolic thirty second protest before as one of the 2,000ish (less, perhaps) regular attendees, you'll certainly hear about it now. And maybe since the money is gone anyway, other teams on the same campus won't worry about offending his sensibilities.
This guy acting like he owns two schools because he has a scholarship named after him, he can keep his coin. Guess they can scrap his name on the court that sort of embittered so many other Penn people last time.
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Post by 23won on Nov 23, 2021 16:14:51 GMT -5
I think it is fantastic. He gave $$ to Penn and a lot of $$$$ to SJU so he is giving a signal on his views that could impact future support to SJU. Penn could care less as they have a huge endowment but it would be great if this conduct grows with others until they actually feel something.
Athletes are out of control. Good for Maguire. Don't think it's a blow hard move at all. 19 year olds disrespecting the country and the flag are out of control and there's no adult supervision here. If you can't support the flag support a flag in some other utopian country you have in your mind. This is the greatest country in the world. Stopn the BS already.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 23, 2021 17:54:18 GMT -5
Years ago, I think 2016, when Colin Kaepernick started kneeling, Dr. G was a guest at an Alumni Board meeting. One of the more senior alums asked Dr. G if he was going to allow that with the players, especially given the strong military history of La Salle (I think this guy had been ROTC).
Dr. G said that while he felt there was an appropriate time and place to have the important dialog and conversations about it, game-time was not that time. He talked about the margin of victory being so small in a lot of A-10 games, and ANYTHING that keeps the players from losing focus and being divided was taking away from the task at hand at game-time and ultimately would be doing the team a disservice of their collective goal to make the NCAA tournament.
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Post by las71 on Nov 23, 2021 17:59:51 GMT -5
I think G realized he was in a minefield with that question so he was very careful.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Nov 23, 2021 18:06:08 GMT -5
I think he has the right to do what he did, but he should have notified the schools privately of his decision. What happens at that point as far as the media goes is up to the schools. And I would have an opinion on that if it happened, but won't post it.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 23, 2021 18:10:42 GMT -5
19 year olds disrespecting the country and the flag are out of control and there's no adult supervision here. These kids go to an Ivy League school and were joined by two assistant coaches but yeah, they’re out of control and unsupervised. |
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 23, 2021 19:14:13 GMT -5
19 year olds disrespecting the country and the flag are out of control and there's no adult supervision here. These kids go to an Ivy League school and were joined by two assistant coaches but yeah, they’re out of control and unsupervised. There is insidious danger here, a slippery dangerous slope. Today it is taking a knee disrespecting the flag and their affluent elders and tomorrow they will be running the streets with AR15s. Gotta gain control of these kids before it is too late!  People could be killed! |
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Post by 23won on Nov 23, 2021 19:43:03 GMT -5
19 year olds disrespecting the country and the flag are out of control and there's no adult supervision here. These kids go to an Ivy League school and were joined by two assistant coaches but yeah, they’re out of control and unsupervised. Plus the entire Nova bench except Gillespie recently. P5 warmups with individual social justice and societal whining emblazened on the back. Take a look around. And someone calls them out and they're over the top? Puhhleease |
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Post by 23won on Nov 23, 2021 19:56:09 GMT -5
These kids go to an Ivy League school and were joined by two assistant coaches but yeah, they’re out of control and unsupervised. :)There is insidious danger here, a slippery dangerous slope. Today it is taking a knee disrespecting the flag and their affluent elders and tomorrow they will be running the streets with AR15s. Gotta gain control of these kids before it is too late! People could be killed! Not my point. The point is that the folks running Penn could give a damn. They even encourage it. And they don't expect the public to have a reaction because they think they are above everyone. Good for Maguire! Just like the idiots in Washington. Stand around and do nothing when you watch them destroy the fundamental qualities of life -- they know better and usher in "change" and then it costs 40% more to heat your house, feed your family, find labor, buy basics. It's the same mentality. "We're in charge and you're going to have to suck it even though it clearly is not right because we have a belief system that is Superior" - even though it is fundamentally wrong and unsustainable. What's next - getting a lecture from a barista on social injustice at every coffee shop while you're waiting for a latte? Guess what - 80% of the country thinks you're full of sh!t and disagrees. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 23, 2021 20:19:23 GMT -5
Let’s veer away from this direction we’re heading in. Thanks.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 23, 2021 21:02:14 GMT -5
:)There is insidious danger here, a slippery dangerous slope. Today it is taking a knee disrespecting the flag and their affluent elders and tomorrow they will be running the streets with AR15s. Gotta gain control of these kids before it is too late! People could be killed! Not my point. The point is that the folks running Penn could give a damn. They even encourage it. And they don't expect the public to have a reaction because they think they are above everyone. Good for Maguire! Just like the idiots in Washington. Stand around and do nothing when you watch them destroy the fundamental qualities of life -- they know better and usher in "change" and then it costs 40% more to heat your house, feed your family, find labor, buy basics. It's the same mentality. "We're in charge and you're going to have to suck it even though it clearly is not right because we have a belief system that is Superior" - even though it is fundamentally wrong and unsustainable. What's next - getting a lecture from a barista on social injustice at every coffee shop while you're waiting for a latte? Guess what - 80% of the country thinks you're full of sh!t and disagrees. Gotcha, my view is, I generally do not find it very troubling (in proportion to so many other things that people can do), if athletes protest by taking a knee. Just does not bother me. Sometimes I see a just cause being pleaded, other times maybe not so much. |
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Post by kinesiology on Nov 23, 2021 22:07:13 GMT -5
Let’s veer away from this direction we’re heading in. Thanks. Says the administrator who took the thread in a political direction with the second post. |
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Nov 23, 2021 23:28:06 GMT -5
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 24, 2021 3:35:05 GMT -5
Good piece Del
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Post by 23won on Nov 24, 2021 12:31:23 GMT -5
Expressing a first amendment protected speech viewpoint is not "suppressing peaceful non-violent protest." He's asking for respect for the flag and the country. And he's asking the adults to be adults and have a backbone on this issue. What's wrong with that? The players are free to protest all day and all night, he's just asking for respect for the anthem for what - a minute - before a public event / display. Disrespecting the anthem doesn't change anything. If you can't respect the anthem, you're free to leave the country. Do people have perfect marriages, work situations, relationships? Hell no. Is this country perfect and was it ever perfect in Maguire's lifetime? No and he acknowledges it but he respects it himself and expects others to. And if they can't, that's their problem. You can't go through life protesting all the time. In an NBA game, you can't outwardly protest, peacefully or otherwise. They haul you out. There are rules of conduct, like The National Basketball Association seeks to foster a safe, comfortable, and enjoyable sports and entertainment experience in which: Players and fans respect and appreciate each other." There's not much respect for the fans if the players can't respect the country. |
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Nov 24, 2021 12:45:55 GMT -5
Expressing a first amendment protected speech viewpoint is not "suppressing peaceful non-violent protest." He's asking for respect for the flag and the country. And he's asking the adults to be adults and have a backbone on this issue. What's wrong with that? The players are free to protest all day and all night, he's just asking for respect for the anthem for what - a minute - before a public event / display. Disrespecting the anthem doesn't change anything. If you can't respect the anthem, you're free to leave the country. Do people have perfect marriages, work situations, relationships? Hell no. Is this country perfect and was it ever perfect in Maguire's lifetime? No and he acknowledges it but he respects it himself and expects others to. And if they can't, that's their problem. You can't go through life protesting all the time. In an NBA game, you can't outwardly protest, peacefully or otherwise. They haul you out. There are rules of conduct, like The National Basketball Association seeks to foster a safe, comfortable, and enjoyable sports and entertainment experience in which: Players and fans respect and appreciate each other." There's not much respect for the fans if the players can't respect the country.
We disagree... That's ok...
Maguire is ABSOLUTELY leveraging his prodigious philanthropy to Penn and St. Joseph's in an attempt to suppress silent non-violent 18-22 year old Black male Penn students.
It is what it is...
I do agree 100% with you that Maguire is well within his constitutional rights to do what he is doing...
Parents and student-athletes have every right to protest by not enrolling in or playing for a school that adopts Maguire's approach...
The revelations of the true feelings and beliefs by Maguire, and folks like you that are aligned, with him are a positive...
Black male student-athletes with options and their parents need to know how issues like this are handled...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 24, 2021 13:20:27 GMT -5
You paint a very one-sided picture of Francis Scott Key to match your narrative. While he was a character not without his flawed beliefs (which were commonplace for a Virginian in the early 1800s), labeling him "explicitly white supremacist" and "ardent racist/white supremacist" in your essay is a character judgment not 100% supported in the facts of his life. I'm sure as a student of history you are aware that Key freed several of his own slaves in the 1830s, worked as a lawyer on behalf of several slaves seeking their freedom, and was an executor of another Virginian's will in which that individual declared 400 of his own slaves freed upon his death. Key worked over a decade to get their freedom and help them obtain their own land to support themselves. I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned in your essay, but I guess it didn't fit the narrative. Not exactly the actions of an...in your words..."ardent racist/white supremacist". Your piece is well written and should provoke conversation...which it has...but sometimes you can't get out of the way of your own need to persecute others, and it weakens your stance. It's OK to present balance and actually would strengthen your argument and promote more balanced dialog. Are you really suggesting that the people kneeling are doing so because they are protesting Francis Scott Key because he was "explicitly white supremacist"? |
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Nov 24, 2021 13:30:01 GMT -5
You paint a very one-sided picture of Francis Scott Key to match your narrative. While he was a character not without his flawed beliefs (which were commonplace for a Virginian in the early 1800s), labeling him "explicitly white supremacist" and "ardent racist/white supremacist" in your essay is a character judgment not 100% supported in the facts of his life. I'm sure as a student of history you are aware that Key freed several of his own slaves in the 1830s, worked as a lawyer on behalf of several slaves seeking their freedom, and was an executor of another Virginian's will in which that individual declared 400 of his own slaves freed upon his death. Key worked over a decade to get their freedom and help them obtain their own land to support themselves. I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned in your essay, but I guess it didn't fit the narrative. Not exactly the actions of an...in your words..."ardent racist/white supremacist". Your piece is well written and should provoke conversation...which it has...but sometimes you can't get out of the way of your own need to persecute others, and it weakens your stance. It's OK to present balance and actually would strengthen your argument and promote more balanced dialog. Are you really suggesting that the people kneeling are doing so because they are protesting Francis Scott Key because he was "explicitly white supremacist"?
Only...
A racist/white supremacist white man could free a Black slave...
We disagree... It's ok...
I do wonder we have the same understanding of "chattel slavery"...
Thx for reading...
Francis Scott Key, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Andrew Jackson, Roger Tany, John C. Calhoun... All of them and many, many, many more were ardent racist/white supremacists...
Lincoln was a racist/white supremacist...
The United States of America was racist/white supremacist...
I love my country to much to lie on it...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 24, 2021 13:56:53 GMT -5
Yes Del...we disagree. One of us likes to label historical figures with absolutes stated as "facts" to further our narrative, and one of us would rather have a balanced dialog looking at context and multiple facets of a person and their actions and have a discussion.
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Post by phillyhoops4life on Nov 24, 2021 14:26:24 GMT -5
Yes Del...we disagree. One of us likes to label historical figures with absolutes stated as "facts" to further our narrative, and one of us would rather have a balanced dialog looking at context and multiple facets of a person and their actions and have a discussion.
Abraham Lincoln said:
"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]---that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.
I say:
Abraham Lincoln was a racist/white supremacist.
You disagree... Ok...
It is what it is Bro...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 24, 2021 15:29:26 GMT -5
Cherry-picking the Douglas debates of 1858 when he was backed into a corner and worrying about alienating Northern Democrats is an interesting approach to furthering your narrative as "fact". I know this approach was popularized by journalist Lerone Bennett, Jr. in 1968 as a way of showing Lincoln as a white supremacist, but it has been repeatedly, in academic literature, been shown to be a point-in-time statement and not consistent with his actions and writings.
Perhaps you should look at some of his later writings and speeches from 1862 onward. Lincoln knew he couldn't snap his fingers and change years of prejudice, but was smart enough to advocate for a gradual approach to reaching the goal. Context is important here, Del. He was neither 100% the saintly emancipator, nor the 100% racist/white supremacist you make him out to be through cherry picking a debate comment. He was a man who recognized he needed to be IN the system to reform it, not outside it, and he worked to ensure he would be part of that system in ultimately bringing reform.
I know I'm not going to change your mind because you pick and choose things that fit your narrative, so yes...we disagree. Context is important though, as is understanding how to get things done to reach an end goal.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 24, 2021 15:47:27 GMT -5
Moved this for obvious reasons.
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People could be killed! 
