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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 18, 2014 8:33:13 GMT -5
There are time during games when JW transforms himself into a Moses Malone brute. It can happen any time as shown in the second half of the St. Joe's game.
I believe G has done Jerrell (and by extension, the team), a disservice. I know JW has always been demonstrative after fouls. But the first one against the Hawks was absurd. Jerrell then seemed to beseech G to do something to protect him. Instead, G does little to nothing. THAT IS WHEN YOU TAKE A T - EARLY IN THE GAME. The second foul was also iffy and it's "see you in the second half Jerrell".
Many games ago Lappas said he believes two fouls in the first half should not result in zero more minutes before halftime - if only to keep their minds in the game. Lappas is no genius but I agree.
Beyond the above - JW showed some real fire against the Hawks. But only played 23 minutes. He showed everyone in the NCAA's last year that he can play very heavy minutes.
Summary: You don't sit your "Moses Malone" for extended minutes regardless, You PROTECT your Moses Malone, and you REALIZE his similarity to Moses Malone. This might be as big a failing as anything else by G this year. So, so many lost JW minutes and lost production.
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Post by fvp47 on Feb 18, 2014 9:08:27 GMT -5
In the thread on the St. Joe game someone commented "he sat on the bench so he could get his 4th foul with two minutes to go." This is a path not taken comment. It is difficult if not impossible to know if he would or would not have picked up the third or possibly the fourth foul before the half had he stayed in the game. Another consideration is that once a player gets three or even worse four fouls his effectiveness goes down and especially on the defensive end. The player, JW included, needs to understand their importace to the team that they be in the game and not get two fouls within the first six minutes. (There is no accounting for bad calls). Having said that the improvement of JW and Steve Zack over the last few years has been impressive.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Feb 18, 2014 9:48:03 GMT -5
Does "fo, fo, fo" become Jerrell's fouls over the last three games?
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Post by coachd on Feb 18, 2014 12:02:26 GMT -5
Then I guess Duren is our Mo Cheeks. We don't have a Dr. J as Garland has missed far too many shots near the hoop. Khalid, DJP and Mills combined don't have the defensive presence nor intensity that Bobby Jones had. Zack is Mark Iavaroni? We don't have an Andrew Toney type player which really hurts us.
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Post by coachd on Feb 18, 2014 12:04:42 GMT -5
In the thread on the St. Joe game someone commented "he sat on the bench so he could get his 4th foul with two minutes to go." This is a path not taken comment. It is difficult if not impossible to know if he would or would not have picked up the third or possibly the fourth foul before the half had he stayed in the game. Another consideration is that once a player gets three or even worse four fouls his effectiveness goes down and especially on the defensive end. The player, JW included, needs to understand their importace to the team that they be in the game and not get two fouls within the first six minutes. (There is no accounting for bad calls). Having said that the improvement of JW and Steve Zack over the last few years has been impressive. G and his coaches consulted each other and decided to save JW in case there was an overtime period. |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 18, 2014 13:07:35 GMT -5
G and his coaches consulted each other and save JW in case there was an overtime period. |
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Post by lasalle89 on Feb 18, 2014 13:09:12 GMT -5
What is Fe Fi Fo Fe Fi Fo Fum?
Moses Malones phone number. 354-3541
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Post by Gnocchi on Feb 18, 2014 13:40:06 GMT -5
In the thread on the St. Joe game someone commented "he sat on the bench so he could get his 4th foul with two minutes to go." This is a path not taken comment. It is difficult if not impossible to know if he would or would not have picked up the third or possibly the fourth foul before the half had he stayed in the game. Nice piece of analysis. Symmetrically, it's impossible to know whether Overbrook would've extended the lead from 1 to 10 at the half had Wright been kept in the game despite having 2 fouls, since it was a path not taken. What is known is that Wright picked up his 3rd foul a minute into the second half and, before committing his 4th on a give-away with 26 seconds left and La Salle down 9, scored 15 of his 16 points and grabbed 11 of his 15 rebounds while playing with 3 fouls... espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400506266 |
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 18, 2014 15:36:58 GMT -5
Gnocchi - Excellent post.
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Post by fvp47 on Feb 18, 2014 15:54:09 GMT -5
I agree, excellent post. The hindsite was spot on. On to Dayton. Would be nice to start a run at the same place where the magic started last year. I see a win as I would hate to think I am driving five hours to see anything less.  |
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Post by goexplorers on Feb 18, 2014 16:19:01 GMT -5
What you can't get from the box score is how many times JW was scored on by Roberts/Halil because he was in foul trouble and played no D. I can think of several occasions.
There is a reason why every coach in America pulls a guy in the 1st half when he gets 2 fouls. It's how the game is played. G snuck him in there a couple minutes later in the 1st half and it worked out ok in terms of the fouls.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 18, 2014 16:29:13 GMT -5
When fouls aren't going Jerrell's way, he gets frustrated and emotional. That's just observations. But I don't blame Giannini for not risking it.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 18, 2014 16:31:45 GMT -5
It's a lot better than your PROJECTION of what MIGHT happen based on CONJECTURE and "path not taken.
His post was actually based on FACT AND REALITY of what DID TAKE PLACE.
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Post by fvp47 on Feb 18, 2014 16:55:26 GMT -5
Observer,
I would wager that many of you have played Poker. You play the odds and make the right play for the long term and what works statistically. You can always make a bad play and win. It does not make you a superior player it only makes you lucky at that point in time. If you continue to make that same bad play again and again in the long run you lose.
Go Explorers
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 18, 2014 16:56:19 GMT -5
What you can't get from the box score is how many times JW was scored on by Roberts/Halil because he was in foul trouble and played no D. I can think of several occasions. There is a reason why every coach in America pulls a guy in the 1st half when he gets 2 fouls. It's how the game is played. G snuck him in there a couple minutes later in the 1st half and it worked out ok in terms of the fouls. Ronald Roberts had 3 points in the 2nd half when JW played his major minutes. (only ONE until JW's meaningless 4th foul with 26 seconds left). Halil did little more than that in the 2nd half. We already have 3 defensive specialists who won't or can't shoot for beans (Mills, DJ, K. Lewis). |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 18, 2014 17:13:18 GMT -5
Why are we all speaking in code? I don't know who's arguing for what anymore because everyone's speaking in tongues and nursery rhymes.
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Post by 23won on Feb 18, 2014 17:17:01 GMT -5
What you can't get from the box score is how many times JW was scored on by Roberts/Halil because he was in foul trouble and played no D. I can think of several occasions. You obviously were not watching the same game I attended. 69 picked up on this, but the second half boxscore was Jerrell 16 points, 11 boards Halil 1 point Roberts 3 points Jerrell is freaking Superman with 3 fouls, outscoring the opposing frontline by 4x. BTW, the Joe's backcourt scored 32 of 39 second half points. www.goexplorers.com/boxscore.aspx?path=mbball&id=4394 |
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Post by las71 on Feb 18, 2014 17:21:32 GMT -5
If we were still in the mix for a tournament berth, I would agree with the conservative approach that G takes with Wright and Zack but Saturday was a huge game for us and I think maybe we should have been more aggressive and let Wright play with 2 fouls. While I often agree with sitting a player after 2 first half fouls, we have to take into consideration our record, the need for a conference win and the drop off from Jerrellto whoever subs for him. Absent a miracle in Brooklyn, our chance of even making the NIT may have ended with the loss to St. Joe's. Under the circumstances we probably should have taken a chance with Jerrell.
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baab
Mop-Up Time
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Post by baab on Feb 18, 2014 23:39:33 GMT -5
Taking a player out with 2 fouls in the first half may be the way the game is played now, but does that mean it's dogma? I remember the 69 Villanova LaSalle game where Wlodarczyk got 4 fouls in the first half, but Szczesny replaced him and basically won the game for LaSalle. You may say this is irrelevant and maybe it is, but if it is an important game sometimes you have to take your chances, maybe your bench players will step up.
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Post by calidelphia on Feb 19, 2014 2:01:57 GMT -5
Holy Moses. I guess thats what "they" say. If we don't know our history then....
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Post by goexplorers on Feb 19, 2014 9:22:04 GMT -5
My point wasn't what happened in the second half. My point is what would have happened in the first half if JW had stayed in. Roberts and Halil would have abused him, knowing he had 2 fouls and wouldn't want to pick up a 3rd. It happened on one of the possessions in the 1st half when G snuck JW back in there, and it would have happened a lot more if he got even more 1st half minutes with 2 fouls.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 19, 2014 9:58:53 GMT -5
Just points out the lack of depth we have especially in the front court.
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Post by coachd on Feb 19, 2014 13:27:06 GMT -5
Why are we all speaking in code? I don't know who's arguing for what anymore because everyone's speaking in tongues and nursery rhymes. Yeah, if you weren't alive back then you don't realize that is how Moses used to talk. After winning the first series Moses was asked what his prediction for the rest of the playoffs was and he said "Fo, Fo, Fo" which meant 4 game sweeps in the last 3 series; they came close as the Milwaukee Bucks won a game. |
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