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Post by alwayslasalle1 on Dec 19, 2013 17:23:49 GMT -5
I don’t believe the BIG FIVE has been the same ever since Rollie Massamino and Villanova tried to sabotage what was once the most storied series in college sports. Villanova wanted to bask in the limelight of the prestigious Big East and felt sharing the stage with other Philly teams could reduce their recruiting influence in the East. Such fears were magnified when some of the ‘lesser” Big Five Brethren would often pull an upset of the ‘Cats’ thereby diminishing the luster of the Big East name and ‘Nova’s passion to separate themselves from the Philly ‘RIFF-RAFF.’
Big mistake on Rollie’s part!
What was necessary was to build up the allure of big city collegiate competition. Competition breeds success; it brings innovation, it creates pressure to outperform and above all it demonstrates credibility when successfully responding to the challenge.
I propose that the big Five add Drexel and be renamed the Big Six. Remind the basketball world that Philly has six strong Div. 1 programs. Increased competition brings increased exposure for Philly basketball.
No other major city has been able to duplicate what we once had with the Big Five. New York city has at least five div. 1 schools and they have not been able to come close to what we had in Philly. Los Angeles has six or seven big time schools and the D.C. area has a similar count.
Philly is unique.
Bring back sellouts for intercity games. Rekindle the competition. Promote, do not demote, the wonderful competitive spirit of intercollegiate rivalry. Expand and promote the BIG SIX. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 19, 2013 17:38:00 GMT -5
I don’t believe the BIG FIVE has been the same ever since Rollie Massamino and Villanova tried to sabotage what was once the most storied series in college sports. Villanova wanted to bask in the limelight of the prestigious Big East and felt sharing the stage with other Philly teams could reduce their recruiting influence in the East. Such fears were magnified when some of the ‘lesser” Big Five Brethren would often pull an upset of the ‘Cats’ thereby diminishing the luster of the Big East name and ‘Nova’s passion to separate themselves from the Philly ‘RIFF-RAFF.’
Big mistake on Rollie’s part!
What was necessary was to build up the allure of big city collegiate competition. Competition breeds success; it brings innovation, it creates pressure to outperform and above all it demonstrates credibility when successfully responding to the challenge.
I propose that the big Five add Drexel and be renamed the Big Six. Remind the basketball world that Philly has six strong Div. 1 programs. Increased competition brings increased exposure for Philly basketball.
No other major city has been able to duplicate what we once had with the Big Five. New York city has at least five div. 1 schools and they have not been able to come close to what we had in Philly. Los Angeles has six or seven big time schools and the D.C. area has a similar count.
Philly is unique.
Bring back sellouts for intercity games. Rekindle the competition. Promote, do not demote, the wonderful competitive spirit of intercollegiate rivalry. Expand and promote the BIG SIX. Aaron and I talk about this a lot. There is a problem with adding Drexel and that is outside of the last few years, they are both a scheduling liability and an RPI drain. The same could have been said about La Salle and can currently be said about Penn right now. Penn is bad. None of the other city schools should lose to them so scheduling them isn't an issue because it is likely a cakewalk game, but when Rosen was there, this wasn't the case. Look at La Salle in the 2005-2008 timeframe. A weaker RPI, but could beat most outside the top-25 at any given night. This is why I believe Giannini struggled to schedule "Top Games" at some points. Villanova has scheduled Drexel once in 11 years. There is a reason for that, namely that for the last few years, the Dragons could beat the Cats. Then Bruiser and Co. heads to the CAA and their RPI ends up somewhere around 200-250. If you lose that game against them, you have an RPI-200+ loss on your schedule. The win means nothing. The other teams have been closer to Drexel in the last few years and have played them more, but don't say a game like that wouldn't worry Fran Dunphy. I just don't see it. I'd like to, and I think Drexel deserves it, but I just don't see it happening ever. |
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Post by a10champion15 on Dec 19, 2013 19:04:30 GMT -5
The DAC makes the Gola look like a premium venue. Drexel problem is Bruiser is a hardass and refuses to schedule games with us unless they are home and home series. He could very well play at the Palestra instead but refuses to do that and I bet G would do it but no one wants to travel to the DAC. It is too much of a liability.
Drexel was suppose to be this impressive team this year. A lot of people made a ton of noise like Aaron Bracy how good they were when they challenged Arizona and UCLA. Both of which are not veteran teams whatsoever. They have a great starting 5 but not much depth. They lost Lee and now they don't look too good. While it is great they were able to keep it close, immature teams like Arizona and UCLA are not going to be great early on. Kansas and Kentucky are in the same boat when the tournament comes around they will be very good. Arizona however has matured really quickly and is earning it's number one spot.
Drexel only quality win is against a mediocre SEC team Alabama which doesn't say too much. Than they just got crushed by SJU who is not that impressive either.
Leave Drexel out, La Salle doesn't benefit in anyway scheduling Drexel. The Big 5 is fine, I am 99% sure ESPN was attracted to it enough to schedule game day between La Salle and Temple at the Palestra, obviously neither of us are particular good as of now but the Big 5 is still awesome. Don't exaggerate that it is in trouble. Jay Wright respects the Big 5 and isn't going to toss it to the side.
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Post by spaceghost on Dec 19, 2013 19:13:21 GMT -5
I'd like to see doubleheaders at the Palestra involving the 4 city teams that wouldn't consider themselves too big for such things. That's as far as I'd go in terms of including Drexel more though. Legitimizing Drexel's program would hurt La Salle more than it would help.
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Post by lwc4591 on Dec 19, 2013 19:24:13 GMT -5
All schools in Big Five have suffered to varying degrees because of what Fat Rollie (a truly pompous ass)did. Nova has suffered the least but none of the other four schools have any love for the cats and vice versa which at one time was not true. Anyone who experienced the 60's and 70's can testify what a great time it was for Philly college basketball. All was destroyed by petty jealousy. Presently most fans would not for the most part care about our fellow Big Five teams as we did back in the day. Philly fans of today think they experience excitement but they have no idea. Last year was great for a short period but this was a fairly common experience at many double headers (9000 manics was the norm)in the Palestra years back. Sadly I can never see those times returning and we the Big Five will continue as separate entities without connection except in name only. Damn money really does destroy just about everything.
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Post by talkinbball on Dec 20, 2013 12:03:26 GMT -5
I go back to the late 60s and I actually try to not even refer to it as The Big Five any more. I think, in deference to what it once was, they should retire the name and come up with something else. While some of the individual rivalries remain within certain schools, it has zero chance of ever being the same.
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Post by durenduren on Dec 20, 2013 12:21:56 GMT -5
The Big 5 is all but dead to everyone except those that went to a Big 5 school AND care about basketball. Twenty years ago even, accessibility to games in Kansas, Kentucky, Florida wasn't like it is today. Open up a computer, turn on a TV. With coverage becoming so widespread, the game's focus grew outside of Philadelphia. Why hike your butt downtown to watch La Salle and Penn muddle around in mediocrity for years when you can watch Kentucky and Kansas duke it out in the comfort of your own home. The Big 5 was born in a different era and it simply didn't translate or adapt well to today's more modern age. It'll continue to exist, but it'll never be what it was.
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 20, 2013 12:24:49 GMT -5
In fairness, let's say Rollie never disbanded the Big 5, and the Round Robin continued all the way through to today. Taking it even further, let's say they still played doubleheaders at the Palestra a few times a year, and even a tripleheader with all 5 schools and Drexel one Saturday a year in December.
It still wouldn't be the same as it was in the 60's and 70's because nothing is anymore. The rise of cable, internet, etc. mean people have other options for sports. Even if the Palestra sold out every one of these hypothetical days, it still wouldn't feel the same overall, because things change. I think what we have now, is the best possible scenario, when you consider modern factors. I know from living in DC and New York, fans and media would love it if they had something comparable to the Big 5.
Drexel gets screwed, no doubt. But at this point, I worry that trying to wedge them in would blow the whole thing apart. Trying to add another team to the mix, or playing more games at the Palestra would probably bring the whole thing to an end. I do hope our St. Joe's game goes back to being at the Palestra next year, but other than that, the fact that the Big 5 still exists has to just be good enough, in my opinion.
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Post by stlexplorer on Dec 20, 2013 13:03:29 GMT -5
If you want to know the chances of Drexel ever entering the picture go listen to Jay Wright on the ESPN College Basketball podcast. Seth Greenberg asked Wright about Drexel and why it was not in the Big 5 grouping of teams and Wright seemed to get uncomfortable about the question and pretty much said because that's the way it's always been.
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Post by a10champion15 on Dec 20, 2013 13:21:49 GMT -5
It stinks the round robin doesn't happen anymore but there has been a plus in recent years.
Our rival with Temple has grown to new heights more than I ever knew it to be. We were always just a petty team to them and over the past two years we battled them. There scared about us now, something that hasn't happened since I don't know when.
It is great G and Dunphy have a good relationship and scheduled back to back games at the palestra. Jay Wright and G also have a good relationship. Jay Wright and Bruiser have a little history and I think Nova has absolutely no desire to schedule them or allow them to be a part of the Big 5.
Once Martelli is gone which honestly is probably coming if they continue on this track. SJU is sick of him and I think a lot of the Big 5 schools are as well. Be interesting to see who SJU hires and how much he respects the Big 5. Perhaps the round robin could return you never know. I feel as though Martelli is the only coach who has an issue with other Big 5 programs.
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Post by durenduren on Dec 20, 2013 13:59:22 GMT -5
Phillies just released this video today, and guess who's missing out of the City 6? In all fairness, I'm not sure what the hell an Explorer or Quaker would say..
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2013 14:10:19 GMT -5
I think the nature of the local college basketball fan has changed too. With old timers still rooting for other Big 5 schools when their school is not playing them. Younger alumni and students only routing for their school and having no interest in or even actively rooting against the other programs. At times, I am guilty of that as well...lol.
It was not to long ago that we where considered the Big 5 liability by fans of the other programs. Embarrassing. At one time or another, each Big 5 member has needed the Big 5. Recruiting, RPI, whatever the reason. I really look forward to repaying the other schools by having a consistent and highly competitive program more years than not.
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2013 14:16:56 GMT -5
Phillies just released this video today, and guess who's missing out of the City 6? In all fairness, I'm not sure what the hell an Explorer or Quaker would say.. Ok so this is the shit that gets me really fired up. I assume the Explorer had prior commitments to get his cape dry cleaned or his sword sharpened OR he was NOT thought of and NOT invited. I have noticed consistently over the years that the Explorer is usually MIA on these type things in the Delaware Valley. If the other Big 5 schools can get their people to these events La Salle should as well. Its good marketing and good community engagement! Hawk was there, he might be a bigger publicity hound than Martelli. Big headed Wildcat was on board. Temple Owl, who won't be flapping at any TU baseball games for the next decade at least, was featured prominently. Dragon, fire breathing and yawning as usual. The Quaker and Explorer left out in the cold. Damn it! |
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Post by durenduren on Dec 20, 2013 16:10:05 GMT -5
Had a feeling that'd get you pissed off Sic.
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Post by lwc4591 on Dec 20, 2013 16:23:20 GMT -5
Kind of glad we were not part of this dog shit act.
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Post by durenduren on Dec 20, 2013 16:55:22 GMT -5
Kind of glad we were not part of this dog shit act. Not sure we're in a position to pass up free publicity from a big four sport, even if it is stupid. |
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2013 17:14:33 GMT -5
Birthday cake looks good though...  |
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Post by durenduren on Dec 20, 2013 17:27:47 GMT -5
... That goddamn Quaker always has the biggest shit-eating grin on, and it drives me nuts. I just want to punch him in the face.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2013 21:47:45 GMT -5
It stinks the round robin doesn't happen anymore but there has been a plus in recent years. Our rival with Temple has grown to new heights more than I ever knew it to be. We were always just a petty team to them and over the past two years we battled them. There scared about us now, something that hasn't happened since I don't know when What are you talking about? The Big 5 round robin has been back in place for approx a decade. Every team plays the other four every year, with Temple, St Joe's, and La Salle sometimes playing a second game because of the A10. And I can assure you that no one at Temple is "scared" to play La Salle. Where do you come up with this stuff? |
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Post by big5explorer on Dec 22, 2013 5:06:28 GMT -5
Phillies just released this video today, and guess who's missing out of the City 6? In all fairness, I'm not sure what the hell an Explorer or Quaker would say.. Ok so this is the shit that gets me really fired up. I assume the Explorer had prior commitments to get his cape dry cleaned or his sword sharpened OR he was NOT thought of and NOT invited. I have noticed consistently over the years that the Explorer is usually MIA on these type things in the Delaware Valley. If the other Big 5 schools can get their people to these events La Salle should as well. Its good marketing and good community engagement! Hawk was there, he might be a bigger publicity hound than Martelli. Big headed Wildcat was on board. Temple Owl, who won't be flapping at any TU baseball games for the next decade at least, was featured prominently. Dragon, fire breathing and yawning as usual. The Quaker and Explorer left out in the cold. Damn it! Couldn't agree more. And if the first one had prior commitments, (which I doubt), you send a backup. This video was posted nationally on MLB.com, so the exposure, even briefly, would have been nice. These are the reasons you have a mascot in the first place. These are the scenarios as I see them: 1. The Phillies called and the school declined to send a mascot. Not sure why they wouldn't. "You're going to shoot a video about a viral song and you want our mascot to be in it, with the most famous mascot in the country? Of course we'll send the Explorer!" is the correct response. 2. The Explorer was on a road trip or had a prior obligation. The school should have a second or backup costume and put the first volunteer in it. Do to know why they wouldn't. 3. LaSalle was never invited. (Unlikely.) In this case the school AD and/or President (do we have one?) should be on the phone with the Phillies asking why 4 other city schools were invited, and not us. |
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Post by durenduren on Dec 22, 2013 8:29:17 GMT -5
I started this, so I'm going to clean it up. It popped up as this discussion was going, and I thought it somewhat relevant, but come on... Us nor Penn were not invited because it is about animals. An Explorer and a Quaker speak English, not make animals noises. The song is about animal noises. The Explorer hasn't started barking, and the Quaker doesn't quack.
I'd be amazed if we snubbed the Phillies. Athletics has done everything right since the Sweet 16.
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 22, 2013 9:18:50 GMT -5
Us nor Penn were not invited because it is about animals. An Explorer and a Quaker speak English, not make animals noises. The song is about animal noises. The Explorer hasn't started barking, and the Quaker doesn't quack. This is the reason on this one. The yearly absences from the Phanatic Birthday are harder to explain. |
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Post by jellybean on Dec 22, 2013 9:26:13 GMT -5
Recently passed the Ticket Agency at 16th and Market in Center City. Saw their electronic scroll highlight Big Five tickets available. Villanova, Temple, Penn, St. Joe and Drexel.
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Post by durenduren on Dec 22, 2013 15:15:32 GMT -5
Just to make it official, got it from a good source we weren't invited.
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Post by alwayslasalle1 on Dec 22, 2013 16:16:10 GMT -5
When I suggested adding Drexel to the Big SIX, I thought about the short term downsides. I.e. might hamper La Salle's recruiting; could dilute RPI, Drexel has a lousy "basketball facility, etc. etc. The same arguments leveled against La Salle when we were considered for the A 10 ( thank God for Temple's John Cheney, he thought we belonged)
My argument is based on the belief that increased rivalry will enhance the luster of the Big Five (SIX). Increased competition will increase quality of teams, no other major city has been able to take advantage of six div. 1 basketball programs playing a yearly series.the big Five has not been the same since Evil Rollie destroyed the series. Doing nothing to revive the City Series is not an option.
I'm optimistic we can bring back the Glory Days of the Big Five; sellouts for games, excitement for Philly basketball, Philly regaining the reputation as Collegiate Basketball Capital ( the older posters on this board will remember those days!)
Let's try to avoid the provincial thinking of Rollie and Villanova; let's think creatively.
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Post by coachd on Dec 23, 2013 11:24:33 GMT -5
The only time many of us considered adding Drexel was when Rollie made Villanova the Narcissistic program of the Big 5. We said let's invite Drexel in and kick Nova out, history be damned. The sad part is that the other 4 programs didn't band together and force Nova to knock off their self-centered behavior or they'd be out.
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