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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 12:20:16 GMT -5
(The need to have current blame is weird and dumb to me. Its like blaming my parents for not having a beach house or something.) ...or for not sending you to a school advanced enough to teach the difference between "its" and "it's" We have highly compensated employees whose job it is to secure donations, devise and execute capital projects, etc. It's odd to me that you won't assign fault for the current situation of a major donation expiring in 2023 to anyone being paid to utilize that donation, but instead want to place the blame on someone from 25 years ago.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 12:34:24 GMT -5
I don't know what to tell you. If they put a new green line station in a dumb spot in Somerville, MA in the next few years, I wouldn't be screaming that the 2035 mayor should be dedicating limited or future resources to move it if the city is in the midst of a housing crisis or something. Our basketball arena isn't La Salle's biggest problem. By far. ...or for not sending you to a school advanced enough to teach the difference between "its" and "it's" But also ... Kenney is shooting 44% from 3 (4th most attempts on team) but only 58% from the line..one of the lowest percentages on the team and he has the most attempts from the line...almost double the next player. I'd foul him outside the arc every time. You're not a math guy, huh?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 13:05:25 GMT -5
I don't know what to tell you. If they put a new green line station in a dumb spot in Somerville, MA in the next few years, I wouldn't be screaming that the 2035 mayor should be dedicating limited or future resources to move it if the city is in the midst of a housing crisis or something. Our basketball arena isn't La Salle's biggest problem. By far. So...letting $5M go to waste and having no plan for it is...no one's fault who was in a position to create a plan and steward that donation. But hey...let's blame the people 25 years ago. Got it.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 13:24:31 GMT -5
That's exactly it. If I offer to cover 10% of a central park penthouse for you as long as you can come up with the other 90%, and you can't, I don't blame you.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 13:26:01 GMT -5
So much of the whining on this board is "people should be able to do all of the things that I want to happen" with no deeper consideration for feasibility.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 14:06:17 GMT -5
That's exactly it. If I offer to cover 10% of a central park penthouse for you as long as you can come up with the other 90%, and you can't, I don't blame you. The difference being...there were several highly compensated employees whose job it was over the past 8 years to put a plan in place and get that other 90%.
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Post by explorer88 on Apr 22, 2021 14:17:43 GMT -5
So much of the whining on this board is "people should be able to do all of the things that I want to happen" with no deeper consideration for feasibility. A fan base "whining" about the team they follow sucks and for almost every year out of the past 30 years they have sucked. The fan base understands that the last 30 years may not have sucked if the team(school) addressed the core issue of why they sucked. First attempt was the core issue could be fixed at the cost of the GC and the team/school doesn't take the offer. Second attempt the school tries to address the issues but does it horribly wrong and could have done it better for somewhat more investment than a clueless temporary President was agreeable to doing. Attempt three has a multi-million dollar bequest to help address the reason why we suck and the school loses the ability to use those funds to help stop the suck. It isn't about feasibility as much as it is about La Salle University's appetite to complete at this level of college basketball. Just tell the fans you don't want to compete at this level and stop taking money like you need those funds to compete. Give the money back to the A-10, alumni, season ticket holders etc... and honestly ask them to contribute to a La Salle basketball team that plays in a lower conference or lower division. Once it is time for this school to shit or get off the pot at Glaser's bequest timeline all of us will have our answers and there should be more clarity than we have ever had and everyone should not "whine" about anything because all the answers we ever wanted will become clear. There should be no "whining" on this board. If you are still complaining about La Salle basketball after that time given the answers you have you are ripe for punishment because you follow a school that is intent on not competing.
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Post by theneumann64 on Apr 22, 2021 14:20:03 GMT -5
Coming back to the topic....to whom do you assign the blame for no facilities plans? Colleen? Baptiste? Bradshaw? The BoT? Or will you refuse to give an opinion on yet another topic and just pivot to Duquesne some more? Any actual blame I lay is with the people who greenlit a high school gym 25 years ago. A self-evidentially awful idea (its not like comps weren't readily reviewable) that someone approved and no one stopped and has handcuffed us (athletically) for approaching 2-plus decades. This is the example I always use with Tropicana Field, but somehow never thought to apply it to Gola Arena. It's one thing for a stadium or arena to just become outdated after years. A lot of people consider Ebbets Field to be the nicest ballpark ever built, but by 1955 it was outdated, in large part because when it was built in 1913, there was no way to envision that the preferred mode of getting to games 40 years later would be automobiles driven in from the the suburbs (both of which barely existed in 1913). A lot of great stadiums have unfortunately gone by the wayside because they didn't have enough suites and luxury boxes to sustain a competitive environment financially. Those weren't flaws in creation, they were changes over time that were largely unforeseeable. But building an arena that was anachronistic or just an anomaly from the moment it opened its doors is a much less forgivable sin. Anyone who was involved with the design of those buildings had to know AT THE TIME they were building something horrendous.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 14:20:50 GMT -5
So much of the whining on this board is "people should be able to do all of the things that I want to happen" with no deeper consideration for feasibility. A fan base "whining" about the team they follow sucks and for almost every year out of the past 30 years they have sucked. The fan base understands that the last 30 years may not have sucked if the team(school) addressed the core issue of why they sucked. First attempt was the core issue could be fixed at the cost of the GC and the team/school doesn't take the offer. Second attempt the school tries to address the issues but does it horribly wrong and could have done it better for somewhat more investment than a clueless temporary President was agreeable to doing. Attempt three has a multi-million dollar bequest to help address the reason why we suck and the school loses the ability to use those funds to help stop the suck. It isn't about feasibility as much as it is about La Salle University's appetite to complete at this level of college basketball. Just tell the fans you don't want to compete at this level and stop taking money like you need those funds to compete. Give the money back to the A-10, alumni, season ticket holders etc... and honestly ask them to contribute to a La Salle basketball team that plays in a lower conference or lower division. Once it is time for this school to shit or get off the pot at Glaser's bequest timeline all of us will have our answers and there should be more clarity than we have ever had and everyone should not "whine" about anything because all the answers we ever wanted will become clear. There should be no "whining" on this board. If you are still complaining about La Salle basketball after that time given the answer you have your expectations should not need to be altered. I honestly think we're pretty close to being in agreement here, I just conceded who we were 10 years earlier.
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Post by theneumann64 on Apr 22, 2021 14:43:09 GMT -5
A fan base "whining" about the team they follow sucks and for almost every year out of the past 30 years they have sucked. The fan base understands that the last 30 years may not have sucked if the team(school) addressed the core issue of why they sucked. First attempt was the core issue could be fixed at the cost of the GC and the team/school doesn't take the offer. Second attempt the school tries to address the issues but does it horribly wrong and could have done it better for somewhat more investment than a clueless temporary President was agreeable to doing. Attempt three has a multi-million dollar bequest to help address the reason why we suck and the school loses the ability to use those funds to help stop the suck. It isn't about feasibility as much as it is about La Salle University's appetite to complete at this level of college basketball. Just tell the fans you don't want to compete at this level and stop taking money like you need those funds to compete. Give the money back to the A-10, alumni, season ticket holders etc... and honestly ask them to contribute to a La Salle basketball team that plays in a lower conference or lower division. Once it is time for this school to shit or get off the pot at Glaser's bequest timeline all of us will have our answers and there should be more clarity than we have ever had and everyone should not "whine" about anything because all the answers we ever wanted will become clear. There should be no "whining" on this board. If you are still complaining about La Salle basketball after that time given the answer you have your expectations should not need to be altered. I honestly think we're pretty close to being in agreement here, I just conceded who we were 10 years earlier. This is I think is hitting an interesting way to look at this. So often, when the topic of potentially dropping down a conference comes up, people say things like "That's admitting failure, that we can't compete at this level." But then there's a lot of complaining that we're NOT competing at this level. I want to be a perennial A-10 upper-tier team that plays in a nice arena too, but if A can't happen without B, and B isn't going to happen, then my desire for A is never going to be met. So as a fan, it may be wise to consider accepting that, and coming up with a new baseline threshold for my satisfaction as a fan of the university. That may mean different things to different people, and some may bail on the endeavor entirely. But there does seem to be a certain segment of people who just want us to HAVE 100 million dollars for a new arena and for that to translate into a winning program, and if that's not happening, it means someone currently in a position of power at the University has to be fucking up.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 14:51:35 GMT -5
I also kind of wonder what would happen if we did get an arena, and its perfect, but we still don't become a perennial contender because of university location, Philadelphia over-saturation, concentration of talent above us, some other unforeseen changes to college basketball itself ... then what? Do the people yelling now yell back at their past selves for wishing the university would commit tens of millions to a sport when there were more pressing, core needs?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Apr 22, 2021 14:51:42 GMT -5
a certain segment of people Segment of one
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Post by explorer88 on Apr 22, 2021 15:24:34 GMT -5
Gola rated 317 out of 337. Just embarrassing. When I became a fan in 1984 this was not a big issue. Never thought 37 years my fandom would be on life support because of a facility La Salle never invested in. Stadium Rankings
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 15:34:21 GMT -5
This comment about Chicago State (#319) feels worth mentioning too: The Jones Convention Center is a beautiful building and could be a wonderful place for basketball once the college program develops a following throughout the area. Those days are not there yet and attending a game is merely for the true basketball fan. In a city where there are plenty of other sporting event options the Jones Convention Center may not make the top of your list.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 16:41:34 GMT -5
This is I think is hitting an interesting way to look at this. So often, when the topic of potentially dropping down a conference comes up, people say things like "That's admitting failure, that we can't compete at this level." But then there's a lot of complaining that we're NOT competing at this level. I want to be a perennial A-10 upper-tier team that plays in a nice arena too, but if A can't happen without B, and B isn't going to happen, then my desire for A is never going to be met. So as a fan, it may be wise to consider accepting that, and coming up with a new baseline threshold for my satisfaction as a fan of the university. That may mean different things to different people, and some may bail on the endeavor entirely. But there does seem to be a certain segment of people who just want us to HAVE 100 million dollars for a new arena and for that to translate into a winning program, and if that's not happening, it means someone currently in a position of power at the University has to be fucking up. There are a lot of parts to this. When the subject of dropping a level arises, the counter arguments include "we won't get the talent we are getting now". OK then....what have we done with that talent besides 1 NCAA tournament while being in the A10. When asked at the Alumni Board if we should stay in the A10 given our lack of success there (in basketball...I know in other sports we have success), Baptiste said "Yes. We believe this is the right league for us because it is a multi-bid league and gives us the best chance of making the NCAA tournament." (Again...1 bid in 25 years..so much for taking advantage of the multi-bid league). OK...then...if it is the right league it needs to be funded and resourced accordingly, including from a facilities standpoint, and if it can't be, then it isn't the right league. Let's be honest about it then instead of pretending year after year. I don't think anyone expects us to just HAVE 100 million. Point is...there are people's whose job it is to get a plan together and figure out how to get the money. I realize I was spoiled by a President like Brother Pat who found donors and executed plans on getting the library and townhouses built just before I enrolled, and the South campus started and Neumann built while I was there. Shouldn't there have been a plan and campaign communicated at this point with all the consultants that have been brought in? Instead we had a campaign started and ended for the Armory building due to the land being unusable, and some nice chairs on the quad.
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Post by theneumann64 on Apr 22, 2021 16:55:14 GMT -5
There have been plenty of building and facility things done in the last 10-15 years. You can not like that a basketball arena wasn’t prioritized, but to imply chairs on the quad is all that was done is dishonest.
I really think some of your arguments are valid but you blunt their impact by not admitting that you have problems on a personal level with a lot of the people currently in positions of power at the school, specifically the President, and that it colors your viewpoint on everything else. I don’t know the root of those issues, and maybe they’re justified, but you are absolutely fucking all over every single thing this school does, and while it’s good fodder I suppose, you find a way to compare us in an unfavorable light to Duquesne at every turn.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 17:18:49 GMT -5
There have been plenty of building and facility things done in the last 10-15 years. You can not like that a basketball arena wasn’t prioritized, but to imply chairs on the quad is all that was done is dishonest. I really think some of your arguments are valid but you blunt their impact by not admitting that you have problems on a personal level with a lot of the people currently in positions of power at the school, specifically the President, and that it colors your viewpoint on everything else. I don’t know the root of those issues, and maybe they’re justified, but you are absolutely fucking all over every single thing this school does, and while it’s good fodder I suppose, you find a way to compare us in an unfavorable light to Duquesne at every turn. What has THIS administration built? Also...let's watch the language please...I know you are an admin and can make and break the rules willy nilly, but the admins seems to allow certain posters to break the language rules at will.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 18:01:33 GMT -5
I know you know being in a multi-bid league has a much larger component than just us getting one of those extra bids over 25 years.
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Post by kinesiology on Apr 22, 2021 18:46:02 GMT -5
I’m continually amazed at the way the majority of this board continue to genuflect at the altar of our current President despite her jumping ship like the worst bandit b-ball coach at the moment of possibly the most existential crisis in the school’s history.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Apr 22, 2021 18:50:46 GMT -5
I’m continually amazed at the way the majority of this board continue to genuflect at the altar of our current President despite her jumping ship like the worst bandit b-ball coach at the moment of possibly the most existential crisis in the school’s history. Yeah what a terrible person for leaving for more prestige and money. None of us would do that at a job we had no prior attachment with.
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Post by kinesiology on Apr 22, 2021 19:03:57 GMT -5
I’m continually amazed at the way the majority of this board continue to genuflect at the altar of our current President despite her jumping ship like the worst bandit b-ball coach at the moment of possibly the most existential crisis in the school’s history. Yeah what a terrible person for leaving for more prestige and money. None of us would do that at a job we had no prior attachment with. Some of us learned a sense of loyalty and honor from the Christian Brothers. Apparently not so much lately.
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Post by theneumann64 on Apr 22, 2021 19:09:48 GMT -5
A- I’ve never genuflected to anything at any point in my life.
B- I’ll be honest, when I heard she was leaving, my initial reaction was to be a little frustrated and disappointed she’s leaving right now, because, you’re right, it’s a tough time for the school to be losing its President. Ultimately I don’t begrudge her pursuing a better opportunity, but yeah, I was little put out when I heard it initially.
C- This goes back to my point that any legitimate criticisms get diluted when you literally criticize everything the school or President does, relentlessly.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 19:10:54 GMT -5
Some of us learned a sense of loyalty and honor from the Christian Brothers. Apparently not so much lately. The funniest part of this is more than half your posts before today were praising Ryan Daly, who wasn’t loyal to Delaware.
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Post by kinesiology on Apr 22, 2021 19:21:54 GMT -5
Some of us learned a sense of loyalty and honor from the Christian Brothers. Apparently not so much lately. The funniest part of this is more than half your posts before today were praising Ryan Daly, who wasn’t loyal to Delaware. Ha ha. Actually I believe ALL my posts were about Daly. Been following the board for years, finally felt compelled to post by the relentless stupidity posted about Daly. If you can seriously compare a kid playing basketball to a multi-six figure college president then I don’t see much point in responding further. Kudos on your great research however.
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Post by calsufan on Apr 22, 2021 19:45:32 GMT -5
Yeah what a terrible person for leaving for more prestige and money. None of us would do that at a job we had no prior attachment with. Some of us learned a sense of loyalty and honor from the Christian Brothers. Apparently not so much lately. Show of hands. How many of us are in the same job, same company that we were when we graduated La Salle?
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Post by gymrat67 on Apr 22, 2021 20:07:16 GMT -5
It's a good piece. Nothing incredibly deep beyond the Glaser stuff but it's a high profile writer laying it all out for a large(r) audience so it’s a good thing. My biggest concern is they’re gonna halfway shoot with it and “reimagine” Heyman/Gola in a few noticeable ways but not enough to really alter things where you feel like you’re in an arena. That’s the minimum to me. Make me feel like I’m in an arena. Not a pro arena or a state of the art building, but just like a place where later that night there won’t be intramural floor hockey or that the janitor is shutting the lights off at 9:30 whether the game is over or not. * * * * * * * * *theneumann64: THIS ( see drawings below ) is apparently what the architects Bogrette et al say that they CAN do ( structurally ) given the existing load-bearing limitations of Hayman / TGA, the estimated cost of which has not been disclosed. Would you / do you consider this retrofit ( 3394 seats ) ' meaningful " ? View AttachmentView AttachmentI do not understand why it is that whenever the architects Bogrette, et al 's 2019 Hayman / TGA / TrueMark Retrofit proposals and Drawings are discussed on this board it is immediately assumed -- without any factual basis that I know of -- that the cost to do certain ( but not all ) of these suggested possible Retrofit ideas must necessarily be in the range of $35 million to $50 million ( the approximate cost of razing Hayman to the ground and constructing an entirely new Arena ) , rather than somewhere in the more probable / feasible ( with the $5 million + Glaser Insurance Trust matching funds Bequest ) range of $15 million to $25 million. [ Most architect's Proposals & Drawings contain a series of optional stages or phases ( ADD-ONS & DEDUCTS ), depending upon the Owner's oft-changing ' Program Requirements ' and Budget. ] IMO it should not be assumed here that something workable and acceptable ( given the University's circumstances ) cannot be achieved for $15 million to $25 million.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Apr 22, 2021 21:05:56 GMT -5
Some of us learned a sense of loyalty and honor from the Christian Brothers. Apparently not so much lately. Show of hands. How many of us are in the same job, same company that we were when we graduated La Salle? Show of hands. How many of us signed 5 year contracts and had housing compensation from our employers, and bailed with more than half of that contract remaining?
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Apr 22, 2021 21:12:17 GMT -5
Hope our next president is currently unemployed so we know we’re getting someone with pristine ethics.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Apr 22, 2021 21:13:23 GMT -5
BoT should have put language in her employment contract to prevent what you’re saying she shouldn’t have done. Just a ridiculous argument.
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Post by calsufan on Apr 22, 2021 21:23:13 GMT -5
Show of hands. How many of us are in the same job, same company that we were when we graduated La Salle? Show of hands. How many of us signed 5 year contracts and had housing compensation from our employers, and bailed with more than half of that contract remaining? Ummm, most University Presidents, most Division 1 football coaches, most Division 1 basketball coaches who went on to bigger and better opportunities? Your personal animosity against her is clouding your reasoning and your argument is ridiculous.
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