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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 27, 2021 20:43:10 GMT -5
It’s all about perspective. So I was going to wait until the end of the season to write this post, but things are heated right now and 1/3 of the board will check out the second the final buzzer sounds. All of the things that I’m about to say are assuming that La Salle does not win two games in the tournament. If they do, make changes where you’d think it was appropriate. I was a very vocal critic of Giannini as a coach, so some of you that were around at that point will probably look at me as some sort of hypocrite, but this board was created at the end of year six of Giannini. We didn’t start using the board for another year or two so posting really began in year eight. When I started to be the most vocal, it was around 2015, so year 11. Keep that context in mind. The Ashley Howard era began with everybody being super excited. We’ve spent a decade or so complaining about facilities and administration and other reasons why no coach could win at La Salle. They’re still true, but expectations have suddenly arisen. La Salle was 15-15 last year. I know that the season never ended, but they were .500. This year, they’ll either finish with nine or 10 wins in a season that was riddled with scheduling changes and protocols that upended the year. It did it for everyone, sure, but the variance of this year has to be considered. Per some quick digging I just did, 1997-98 Xavier (featuring James posey, among others) is the only team to ever beat us by 30+ twice in a season. This thoroughly average Mason team is on the verge of joining them Brutal It’s a F*****g disaster. Program is worse now than when we fired G. We thought we hired Wright-lite but instead we got G Junior. Ash has one more year to make substantial improvement. Hint: he needs to do what Wright and humble himself and take a month in the off season and talk to retired coaching legends or legends near the end of their careers and ask them what they do to recruit better players and improve the guys you recruit. We can't have a coach and assistants stealing money. Losing by 33 and 35 to a mediocre A10 team with no fans to boot is a recipe to join Jeff Neubeurer in the never to coach division 1 again unemployment line So the Ashley Howard era stands: 10-21 15-15 10-15 (or so) 35-51. That’s a 40.7% win percentage. Not good, not good at all. But in John Giannini’s last three years, he won at a 39.8% clip (37-56). So is this excusing a bad team that at times seems poorly coached? No, but it’s all relative and, relative to the three years prior to his arrival, Howard is doing slightly better than Giannini who was on his fourth recruiting cycle. So there are other worrisome signs amongst the Howard era and these are the ones that might get him canned early, maybe even this year. He’s been ejected twice. He’s had players ejected. He’s had players leave and, without going crazy with detail, some of it was because of internal stuff between teammates. Brian Baptiste is going to have to decide if the things that have happened, specifically, this year, are fireable offenses. My guess is that they are not. I mentioned in a post that we were a very results-oriented board. And to be honest, that’s every fan base. But at the end of the last George Mason game we had frequent posters on here saying that the coach that everybody on the board wanted was “ stealing money.” Except for those two clowns that wanted Tim Legler. Maybe I’ve grown up in the last 5-7 years, but that’s just insane to me. An example of what I’m talking about: This was today: Why? The team is no better and probably worse. That is the definition of stealing money. This was 34 days ago: Bigger win than Dayton for me. Terffic job today. Perhaps there isn’t a divide in those two comments, but the team was coming of its second win over a top-of-the-conference opponent. And 88, I’m not picking on you here…you were just the example that was most readably available. Fanbases are, by definition, fanatical. So in my second paragraph I added my Giannini context. That was purposeful as the we are dealing with difference in duration that are astronomical. At one point, John Giannini was in the top-20 for most tenured coaches in the country. Ash Howard is just finishing his third season during a pandemic in which his second season never really ended. Wanting to have him fired with years (with an s) on his first contract is just bananas to me. ** And this is where my defense ends, because quite frankly…the results aren’t good enough and like I mentioned above, there are flashing warning signs that things aren’t in a good place. They’ve lost a couple players already. They’re going to lose a couple more (I’d bet two more). That is ok, to be honest. It’s a weird time and the NCAA is making it free to leave and go elsewhere, so guys must do what they have to do. But if there is in fact a problem in that locker room, and the AD should do an exit interview at the end of the season with every player leaving or not, then you must look into making a change. I could pivot and talk actual basketball, but I’m not going to do that because to me, at this point, it doesn’t even matter. Barring the issues mentioned above, Ash gets his fourth year. If he doesn’t show improvement…loosely defined as a top-of-the-A10 season, then it’s time to move on. You can’t extend and you can’t go into a lame duck year. So no hard feelings if I quoted your post. And sorry for the length. And if I got a win/loss record wrong, I apologize…Used sports-reference. Maybe we’ll win the A10 tournament and nobody will care about anything above. We're all on the same team here. |
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 27, 2021 20:58:35 GMT -5
I would take board calls for a coach to be fired more seriously if we didn't fire every coach every month of every year. There's no way La Salle would (or should) even consider a two year buyout of a coach who has gotten two (2) recruiting classes so its just another pointless exhibition of rage here.
Edited to make my first sentence "coherent".
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Post by blueandgold on Feb 27, 2021 21:02:37 GMT -5
This is exactly where I am at. I'd add that you could argue, with a full schedule, we might have flirted with .500 again - and considering no significant net talent upgrade in 2020, that would have been less than desired but a reasonable outcome.
I expect a goose egg in the win column during the A10 tourney. I am already onto Year 4, and I am hoping it's an over .500 season.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 27, 2021 21:32:03 GMT -5
I think for many, it's less about the number of wins, but more about the WAY the team has lost. There have been absolute blowouts to middle of the road teams where La Salle has just looked lost on the court...and the lack of learning from those blowouts is what is frustrating.
Our talent is better than our record...and certainly better than multiple 20+ point losses. A good coach can teach, and get less talented kids to perform as a cohesive unit and get a team to gel. That hasn't happened in 3 years. And I know what you are referring to with the locker room and why one player left...and I've heard others are looking as well (my guess is also 2 leave...beyond the seniors...and one of those will be a big loss). It is, as you say, the reality of the game today. But I also wonder...what if 3 players hadn't left in mid-season...Ed being the biggest of those losses. Last year I brought up what I saw as a culture issue on the team. I think you agree...there is an issue there.
There's nothing wrong with getting to year 4 and realizing...meh...he wasn't the right guy for the job...maybe we needed an experienced head coach to navigate a team through some of these program issues. I don't think any of us were looking for an NCAA bid in year 3, but we wanted to see improvement, growth, learning, and a system in place. That's not there either in the results or in how the team plays the game. A young team is going to make mistakes. A good coach can help them learn from those mistakes so they aren't repeated time and time again.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 27, 2021 21:35:58 GMT -5
A well-written post. And I agree with the "look" of it, but in my opinion, he gets the whole package. As if there is a "grand plan" or something.
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Post by festushagan on Feb 27, 2021 21:56:05 GMT -5
Culture issue, really curious what this might be?
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Post by kevin1aai on Feb 27, 2021 23:01:43 GMT -5
Without question this is a poorly coached team but issues here go beyond coaching. No real vision or direction from the top (President, AD); those two seem to be in denial about the ability of Men's Basketball to consistently compete in the A-10. Twenty six years in and we have won one more than one game in the A-10 tourney once. Once!!
Also of note.... only 4 out of 26 seasons above 500 in conference play and overall win percentage of 44% in league play. Time to be realistic about what the program is and can be. Pains me to say it but I think the MAAC is just a better place for LaSalle. Schools of similar size, budgets, and facilities. Will not win the league every year but the season wouldn't consistently be over by mid-January either.
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Post by explorerentourage on Feb 28, 2021 0:02:08 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet I'm the youngest alum on this site (was at La Salle post 2013 so saw 4 years of losing) and the more I watch this program the more I ask myself the following...Was Ramon Galloway Jesus incarnate?
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Post by calsufan on Feb 28, 2021 0:11:35 GMT -5
...Pains me to say it but I think the MAAC is just a better place for LaSalle. Schools of similar size, budgets, and facilities. Will not win the league every year but the season wouldn't consistently be over by mid-January either. No thank you. I don't want to go back to a one bid league. The quality of our recruits will drop as will the ability to get a better coach. I don't know exactly what the answer is (other than a miracle infusion of a new facility and $50 mill to spend on the program), but moving down to the MAAC is definitely not the answer. |
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Post by vital on Feb 28, 2021 0:38:45 GMT -5
A lot of pressure on Coach next year even more...he has his some serious work to do this off season especially trying to keep 6-7 of his players...body language tells so much when the players are on the court and in timeouts..So Ash has to call a lot of parents to convince them they child should stay and less time recruiting along with this Pandemic...so next season is going to be tough..
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 28, 2021 1:14:37 GMT -5
You win at a place like La Salle with a system that you recruit players that fit the system not recruit talent to design a system around. The school and facilities will limit your access to the highest level talent and without a system there’s failure.
Billy Hahn failed b/c he was a great recruiter
G failed because he was a great recruiter but got luck for two years a decade ago with Ramon Galloway
Ash is struggling because he’s trying to recruit elite talent but settling for less than elite other than Brickus.
A coach with a true system like Schmidt, McKillop, Mooney, etc would do incredibly well at La Salle because average to slightly above average raw talent is plentiful in the immediate area that could thrive in a true system at a place like la Salle.
I don’t know what the system is but we haven’t had a true on-court identity via style of play since 2013 and that was only because an injury forced the 4 guard lineup.
I don’t know what ash’s system of basketball is after 3 seasons. They don’t press or plays full court; they don’t move the ball on offense crisply to open 3 point attempts, they don’t play hard pressure d. I’m not sure what the system is but if it’ not clear I’m not sure what the optimism would be for.
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Post by glorydays on Feb 28, 2021 5:40:06 GMT -5
I have an appreciation for not wanting to move back to the MAAC. Under normal circumstances, I can drive 20 minutes to UD to see CAA competition which is similar to the MAAC.
A 50 minute drive gets me to DelState and the MEAC.
I like the A-10 but we obviously haven’t been competitive.
Other than that, I am kind of worn out by all of this. I don’t want to be just piling on Coach Howard 7-8 times a year. Time to let it rest for me.
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Post by walkon on Feb 28, 2021 6:47:28 GMT -5
The only way you win in the Atlantic 10 with a program like ours is through the transfer portal, and a solid integration of different parts like G did in 2013.
Going to the MAAC destroys any great talent at this level coming to La Salle (no Brickus), and will also eliminate the high quality of transfers (BJ, Ramon).
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Post by kevin1aai on Feb 28, 2021 8:35:08 GMT -5
...Pains me to say it but I think the MAAC is just a better place for LaSalle. Schools of similar size, budgets, and facilities. Will not win the league every year but the season wouldn't consistently be over by mid-January either. No thank you. I don't want to go back to a one bid league. The quality of our recruits will drop as will the ability to get a better coach. I don't know exactly what the answer is (other than a miracle infusion of a new facility and $50 mill to spend on the program), but moving down to the MAAC is definitely not the answer. |
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Post by broderickpresident on Feb 28, 2021 8:54:15 GMT -5
‘No offense if I quoted your post’ yet you refer to people who had a different opinion on who the next coach should be as ‘clowns’
The only silly thought is thinking la Salle could land a top-notch candidate with conventional credentials. Among people that climb the coaching ladder from water boy to bag man, la Salle is one of the least desirable jobs in division I. That’s the wrong pond for us to be fishing in. The last time we made a good hire it was a women’s coach with high school experience. Ball is ball. We need a coach, not a resume.
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Post by kevin1aai on Feb 28, 2021 8:57:23 GMT -5
No thank you. I don't want to go back to a one bid league. The quality of our recruits will drop as will the ability to get a better coach. I don't know exactly what the answer is (other than a miracle infusion of a new facility and $50 mill to spend on the program), but moving down to the MAAC is definitely not the answer. |
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Post by kevin1aai on Feb 28, 2021 9:05:03 GMT -5
A multi-bid league doesn't really matter when you only have winning seasons in conference play 4 times in 26 years. Talent level here except in 1-2 cases is more MAAC level than A-10. Watch the St. Peter's and Army games, as well as a few of the A-10 games where the team struggled to crack 50 points.
No reason that LaSalle could not recruit the same way in the MAAC. Beef up the non-league schedule to make it attractive like Speedy did ,and there is the ability sell a legitimate chance to be in the NCAA every year. This team would not win the MAAC every year but certainly would not be consistently over-matched like this. A-10 isn't working for LaSalle and almost 30 years in it's hard to see that changing.
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Post by sweat83 on Feb 28, 2021 9:11:33 GMT -5
No thank you. I don't want to go back to a one bid league. The quality of our recruits will drop as will the ability to get a better coach. I don't know exactly what the answer is (other than a miracle infusion of a new facility and $50 mill to spend on the program), but moving down to the MAAC is definitely not the answer. In the A10, which has been a multiple bid conference, we've received exact 1 NCAA bid since we've joined. And we really haven't hit the jackpot as far as recruits go. And we have trouble beating MAAC caliber teams as it is, let alone lose by 20 and 30+ points to middle of the road A10 teams. While in the MAAC, (and the ECC) we've had more players make it to the NBA and did not do such a bad job recruiting names like Lionel, Woods, Overton, Steve Black, Ralph Lewis, Butler and others. Attendance for A10 games are lukewarm at best. I don't see a new facility on the horizon. Going back to the MAAC, or a lower conference should not be discounted. Go back to what worked. Just sayin. |
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joe
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Post by joe on Feb 28, 2021 9:22:40 GMT -5
In the A10, which has been a multiple bid conference, we've received exact 1 NCAA bid since we've joined. And we really haven't hit the jackpot as far as recruits go. And we have trouble beating MAAC caliber teams as it is, let alone lose by 20 and 30+ points to middle of the road A10 teams. While in the MAAC, (and the ECC) we've had more players make it to the NBA and did not do such a bad job recruiting names like Lionel, Woods, Overton, Steve Black, Ralph Lewis, Butler and others. Attendance for A10 games are lukewarm at best. I don't see a new facility on the horizon. Going back to the MAAC, or a lower conference should not be discounted. Go back to what worked. Just sayin. I agree with this post. La Salle tried its best to play in the A 10. The program will always be behind compared to the other schools. If La Salle raised 1 million, the other schools would raise 10 million. If La Salle built 20 million arena, others would build 35 million arena. It is time to move on from A 10. It is sad. I had great hope for La Salle. |
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 28, 2021 9:33:03 GMT -5
‘No offense if I quoted your post’ yet you refer to people who had a different opinion on who the next coach should be as ‘clowns’ Thinking they were going to hire a part-time ESPN analyst with credentials that include being the AAU coach for his son's AAU team was ridiculous from the jump, his having interest or not. Maybe using the word "clown" wasn't fair, but the idea was silly so... |
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 28, 2021 9:51:48 GMT -5
I agree we are going to have a bunch of transfers. So what?
We are not going to win with these players and Ash At the helm.
We are going to have to endure another year like this year and maybe worse depending on who transfers out. I don’t think he can evaluate talent and will not bring in anyone of significance. After next year La Salle moves on.
We won’t win for another couple of years after that but at least a new coach brings a new perspective and at least some hope for the future.
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 28, 2021 9:57:41 GMT -5
You win at a place like La Salle with a system that you recruit players that fit the system not recruit talent to design a system around. The school and facilities will limit your access to the highest level talent and without a system there’s failure. Billy Hahn failed b/c he was a great recruiter G failed because he was a great recruiter but got luck for two years a decade ago with Ramon Galloway Ash is struggling because he’s trying to recruit elite talent but settling for less than elite other than Brickus. A coach with a true system like Schmidt, McKillop, Mooney, etc would do incredibly well at La Salle because average to slightly above average raw talent is plentiful in the immediate area that could thrive in a true system at a place like la Salle. I don’t know what the system is but we haven’t had a true on-court identity via style of play since 2013 and that was only because an injury forced the 4 guard lineup. I don’t know what ash’s system of basketball is after 3 seasons. They don’t press or plays full court; they don’t move the ball on offense crisply to open 3 point attempts, they don’t play hard pressure d. I’m not sure what the system is but if it’ not clear I’m not sure what the optimism would be for. Exactly right. That is what I said. Find a successful lower level coach willing to bring his system to a higher level but you need to make sure his system recruits kids La Salle can get. |
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Post by broderickpresident on Feb 28, 2021 10:12:40 GMT -5
‘No offense if I quoted your post’ yet you refer to people who had a different opinion on who the next coach should be as ‘clowns’ Thinking they were going to hire a part-time ESPN analyst with credentials that include being the AAU coach for his son's AAU team was ridiculous from the jump, his having interest or not. Maybe using the word "clown" wasn't fair, but the idea was silly so... 3 coaches in the last 50ish years have had us ranked by the AP: Gola, Westhead and Speedy None of them had what would now be considered relevant experience. All knew the game. That’s what matters |
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Post by stlexplorer on Feb 28, 2021 10:14:16 GMT -5
If I could wrap my head around how we can beat the top half of the league while losing the bottom half of the league I'd know what to think, but I don't. I want Ash to work out so badly but what worries me is the continuation of lack of progress as players get older. There's few things as consistent as us being excited for our seniors to graduate and leave the program. I wish I knew what to do or think
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 28, 2021 10:15:30 GMT -5
Thinking they were going to hire a part-time ESPN analyst with credentials that include being the AAU coach for his son's AAU team was ridiculous from the jump, his having interest or not. Maybe using the word "clown" wasn't fair, but the idea was silly so... 3 coaches in the last 50ish years have had us ranked by the AP: Gola, Westhead and Speedy None of them had what would now be considered relevant experience. All knew the game. That’s what matters If your reference points are 50 years old, probably time to replace them. And Speedy’s move from women’s coach to men’s coach without a degree or relevant college experience doesn’t happen anymore. Didn’t happen then. Find me a comp for Tim Legler becoming a head coach just like that. Chris Mullin? How’d that work out. |
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Post by broderickpresident on Feb 28, 2021 10:28:59 GMT -5
The list of academic all Americans who became nba players and then went into coaching is a list comprised of only great success stories.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 28, 2021 10:55:53 GMT -5
In the A10, which has been a multiple bid conference, we've received exact 1 NCAA bid since we've joined. And we really haven't hit the jackpot as far as recruits go. And we have trouble beating MAAC caliber teams as it is, let alone lose by 20 and 30+ points to middle of the road A10 teams. While in the MAAC, (and the ECC) we've had more players make it to the NBA and did not do such a bad job recruiting names like Lionel, Woods, Overton, Steve Black, Ralph Lewis, Butler and others. Attendance for A10 games are lukewarm at best. I don't see a new facility on the horizon. Going back to the MAAC, or a lower conference should not be discounted. Go back to what worked. Just sayin. What worked then will not work now. The basketball landscape has completely changed between the late 80's and the early 90's. Moving to the MAAC would only move us further down the food chain as far as recruits, fan interest and league prestige. |
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 28, 2021 10:56:21 GMT -5
So the Ashley Howard era stands: 10-21 15-15 10-15 (or so) 35-51. That’s a 40.7% win percentage. Not good, not good at all. But in John Giannini’s last three years, he won at a 39.8% clip (37-56). So is this excusing a bad team that at times seems poorly coached? No, but it’s all relative and, relative to the three years prior to his arrival, Howard is doing slightly better than Giannini who was on his fourth recruiting cycle. Splitting hairs here but Ash is 34-51, so 40.0%, and 33-51 vs D1 opponents, so 39.2%. Last year's wins against teams like FDU and Wagner don't excite me. This year's losses against St. Peter's and Army are concerning...and particularly germane as we discuss the MAAC. I was more interested in their conference records over 3 years. Ash at 20-33 (37.7%). G was 20-34 (37.0%) in his final 3. We are basically the same. Maybe what this says is...we are in the wrong conference. I get the recruiting cycle argument BUT...Ash hasn't retained his recruits. 3 have left, and likely more to follow. Some might say...well...they weren't contributing (other than Ed)...but...they were HIS recruits and he should have developed them. I think what's troubling is, watching the way we play. If I felt a foundation was being set for something coming, I could accept where we are and look to the future and say good times will be coming. I'm just not seeing that. You can only ask be asked to #BELIEVE for so long before it sounds hollow. At the end of year three, it is sounding hollow. Worse...it's making me (and I'm sure others) not want to write that donation check...or get season tickets again. If a really good player leaves again, why would I have hope for next season and believe that next year is our year? It feels like the investing equivalent of "catching the falling knife" right now. |
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 28, 2021 11:07:59 GMT -5
Exactly right Glitter.
It is the optics that is real concerning. We are not getting better. I could live with the 34-51 record if we were improving, had direction in the program, and identity, and just some hope for a better program.
Even Ash’s biggest supporters can’t find those things.
People kill BP for thinking outside the box with Legler. I don’t know if he would succeed or not but I do know what we have a now is not working.
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Post by sweat83 on Feb 28, 2021 11:08:14 GMT -5
So the Ashley Howard era stands: 10-21 15-15 10-15 (or so) 35-51. That’s a 40.7% win percentage. Not good, not good at all. But in John Giannini’s last three years, he won at a 39.8% clip (37-56). So is this excusing a bad team that at times seems poorly coached? No, but it’s all relative and, relative to the three years prior to his arrival, Howard is doing slightly better than Giannini who was on his fourth recruiting cycle. Splitting hairs here but Ash is 34-51, so 40.0%, and 33-51 vs D1 opponents, so 39.2%. Last year's wins against teams like FDU and Wagner don't excite me. This year's losses against St. Peter's and Army are concerning...and particularly germane as we discuss the MAAC. I was more interested in their conference records over 3 years. Ash at 20-33 (37.7%). G was 20-34 (37.0%) in his final 3. We are basically the same. Maybe what this says is...we are in the wrong conference. I get the recruiting cycle argument BUT...Ash hasn't retained his recruits. 3 have left, and likely more to follow. Some might say...well...they weren't contributing (other than Ed)...but...they were HIS recruits and he should have developed them. I think what's troubling is, watching the way we play. If I felt a foundation was being set for something coming, I could accept where we are and look to the future and say good times will be coming. I'm just not seeing that. You can only ask be asked to #BELIEVE for so long before it sounds hollow. At the end of year three, it is sounding hollow. Worse...it's making me (and I'm sure others) not want to write that donation check...or get season tickets again. If a really good player leaves again, why would I have hope for next season and believe that next year is our year? It feels like the investing equivalent of "catching the falling knife" right now. What "really good player" has left? Non were getting a whole lot of playing time, nor went on to bigger and better programs. One transferred to Robert Morris (closer to home), the other to UMASS...Lowell. Neither of them were going to contribute where we would see more W's. |
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Per some quick digging I just did, 1997-98 Xavier (featuring James posey, among others) is the only team to ever beat us by 30+ twice in a season. This thoroughly average Mason team is on the verge of joining them
We thought we hired Wright-lite but instead we got G Junior. Ash has one more year to make substantial improvement. Hint: he needs to do what Wright and humble himself and take a month in the off season and talk to retired coaching legends or legends near the end of their careers and ask them what they do to recruit better players and improve the guys you recruit. We can't have a coach and assistants stealing money. Losing by 33 and 35 to a mediocre A10 team with no fans to boot is a recipe to join Jeff Neubeurer in the never to coach division 1 again unemployment line
Too farWhy? The team is no better and probably worse.
