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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 12, 2020 18:28:15 GMT -5
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 12, 2020 19:40:23 GMT -5
UGH, dims the prospects of a season for us.
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Post by 1863 on Nov 12, 2020 20:08:14 GMT -5
With the talk of a 4-6 week lock-down in January in the news today, it sort of takes the optimism out of the idea of having a college basketball season.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 13, 2020 10:12:35 GMT -5
With the talk of a 4-6 week lock-down in January in the news today, it sort of takes the optimism out of the idea of having a college basketball season. With Covid surging so it would seem it is making "getting back to a normal life" a remote reality at this time. BTW, could you give some clarification regarding what is meant with your moniker "1863" and avatar sporting a confederate flag? What is your point?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 13, 2020 12:09:45 GMT -5
Any guesses which league is next? I'm guessing Patriot League.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 13, 2020 14:16:00 GMT -5
Any guesses which league is next? I'm guessing Patriot League. Mountain West is my guess
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Post by 1863 on Nov 13, 2020 15:13:37 GMT -5
With the talk of a 4-6 week lock-down in January in the news today, it sort of takes the optimism out of the idea of having a college basketball season. With Covid surging so it would seem it is making "getting back to a normal life" a remote reality at this time. BTW, could you give some clarification regarding what is meant with your moniker "1863" and avatar sporting a confederate flag? What is your point? It was the year our school (you know, La Salle) was founded and that's what was going in our country at the time. There's an American flag displayed, also. It shows the clash of the Confederate and Union forces. You see, there was this thing happening called the Civil War from 1861-1865. Why are you trying to read more into it than that?
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 13, 2020 15:32:01 GMT -5
With Covid surging so it would seem it is making "getting back to a normal life" a remote reality at this time. BTW, could you give some clarification regarding what is meant with your moniker "1863" and avatar sporting a confederate flag? What is your point? It was the year our school (you know, La Salle) was founded and that's what was going in our country at the time. There's an American flag displayed, also. It shows the clash of the Confederate and Union forces. You see, there was this thing happening called the Civil War from 1861-1865. Why are you trying to read more into it than that? Thank you. I read nothing into it. But was seeking clarification given the symbol involved. I was open to your forthright explanation. Thanks again. And, sorry for any possible offense.
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Post by 1863 on Nov 13, 2020 22:01:29 GMT -5
Thank you. I read nothing into it. But was seeking clarification given the symbol involved. I was open to your forthright explanation. Thanks again. And, sorry for any possible offense. Fair enough. We're cool.
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 14, 2020 9:53:57 GMT -5
Smart move. Can't have Ivy League athletes dying from Covid like countless other college students have.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 14, 2020 11:40:37 GMT -5
Smart move. Can't have Ivy League athletes dying from Covid like countless other college students have. Big5explorer, you are obviously in disagreement, clearly of a different mind here. But, sarcasm aside (surely they can see deaths of college athletes a low probability event , any thoughts on why they are making this decision, e.g. their concerns medically (your area), or your thoughts on economic, social concerns etc.? Why do you think they are they doing this? Thanks.
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Post by glorydays on Nov 14, 2020 14:40:46 GMT -5
Thank you. I read nothing into it. But was seeking clarification given the symbol involved. I was open to your forthright explanation. Thanks again. And, sorry for any possible offense. Fair enough. We're cool. 1863 was the year of The Battle of Gettysburg. Remember the spirit of the Gettysburg Address. Only 272 words. That is shorter than some of these posts.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Nov 14, 2020 18:02:00 GMT -5
Smart move. Can't have Ivy League athletes dying from Covid like countless other college students have. Or facing long-term effects which are all fully understood and unimportant!
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Post by hykos1045 on Nov 14, 2020 20:46:31 GMT -5
Unlikely to have college students with complications but how do you ref the games and staff them?
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 14, 2020 23:18:59 GMT -5
Unlikely to have college students with complications but how do you ref the games and staff them? Considering about 1 in 30 people in the United States have formally been diagnosed with Covid, I'm guessing there are a few refs available.
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 14, 2020 23:21:30 GMT -5
Smart move. Can't have Ivy League athletes dying from Covid like countless other college students have. Or facing long-term effects which are all fully understood and unimportant! I'd guess over 200 of my patients have had Covid. Not one with any long term effects. Most of them are less healthy than college students. But if there are studies showing decent percentages of college athletes with long-term effects post-Covid, I'd love to see them.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 15, 2020 10:12:59 GMT -5
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Post by calsufan on Nov 15, 2020 11:19:40 GMT -5
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Post by explorerentourage on Nov 15, 2020 12:13:53 GMT -5
Ah yes, the brilliant WHO. They still using data given to them from China?
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Post by calsufan on Nov 15, 2020 12:16:44 GMT -5
Ah yes, the brilliant WHO. They still using data given to them from China? Yes, they're a completely bogus operation. (Please note the official sarcasm font of Explorertown)
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 16, 2020 16:03:31 GMT -5
Ah yes, the brilliant WHO. They still using data given to them from China? The WHO has been completely ineffective at stopping, slowing, or treating this virus. They failed to act quickly enough to contain it. They have done nothing to advance treatment of it. As a clinician I pay zero attention to anything the WHO says or does regarding Covid. And the word "some" above is a pretty nebulous word. It likely won't apply to (m)any healthy college athletes. And I'll cite the countless MLB, NHL, NBA, PGA, and NFL players who have recovered uneventfully from this virus as a reference.
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Post by calsufan on Nov 16, 2020 16:23:23 GMT -5
Ah yes, the brilliant WHO. They still using data given to them from China? The WHO has been completely ineffective at stopping, slowing, or treating this virus. They failed to act quickly enough to contain it. They have done nothing to advance treatment of it. As a clinician I pay zero attention to anything the WHO says or does regarding Covid. And the word "some" above is a pretty nebulous word. It likely won't apply to (m)any healthy college athletes. And I'll cite the countless MLB, NHL, NBA, PGA, and NFL players who have recovered uneventfully from this virus as a reference. Anecdotal comments over studies. Okay.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
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Post by MisterD on Nov 16, 2020 16:26:39 GMT -5
Do we just wipe Jamain Stephens and Eduardo Rodriguez off the record here because they're the (currently known) exceptions?
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 16, 2020 20:25:23 GMT -5
The WHO has been completely ineffective at stopping, slowing, or treating this virus. They failed to act quickly enough to contain it. They have done nothing to advance treatment of it. As a clinician I pay zero attention to anything the WHO says or does regarding Covid. And the word "some" above is a pretty nebulous word. It likely won't apply to (m)any healthy college athletes. And I'll cite the countless MLB, NHL, NBA, PGA, and NFL players who have recovered uneventfully from this virus as a reference. Anecdotal comments over studies. Okay. I look at studies all day long. Point to one that shows this is a dangerous virus for healthy college athletes.
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Post by doctafeelgood on Nov 16, 2020 22:02:16 GMT -5
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Post by calsufan on Nov 16, 2020 22:07:49 GMT -5
Anecdotal comments over studies. Okay. I look at studies all day long. Point to one that shows this is a dangerous virus for healthy college athletes. Oh I'll play that game. Point to one that specifically says that this isn't a dangerous virus for healthy college athletes. I showed a few studies that indicate it could cause problems long term in anyone. The Guardian article cited a study which analyzed young, low risk patients. Hmmm. Athletes are young and low risk, right? You referenced anecdotal stories about 200 of your patients that experienced no long term effect. I cited an article that spoke to a study that showed a certain percentage of patients experiencing long term effects. What's the statistical probability that none of your 200 patients fit into that percentage of patients that have no long-term effects. Don't bother getting the calculator out, the answer is zero. It's statistically impossible based on that article for none of your patients to have long-term effects. You asked for studies. I referenced studies. They don't fit your biased narrative so you go with anecdotes and ignore the studies.
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 16, 2020 22:56:43 GMT -5
I look at studies all day long. Point to one that shows this is a dangerous virus for healthy college athletes. Oh I'll play that game. Point to one that specifically says that this isn't a dangerous virus for healthy college athletes. I showed a few studies that indicate it could cause problems long term in anyone. The Guardian article cited a study which analyzed young, low risk patients. Hmmm. Athletes are young and low risk, right? You referenced anecdotal stories about 200 of your patients that experienced no long term effect. I cited an article that spoke to a study that showed a certain percentage of patients experiencing long term effects. What's the statistical probability that none of your 200 patients fit into that percentage of patients that have no long-term effects. Don't bother getting the calculator out, the answer is zero. It's statistically impossible based on that article for none of your patients to have long-term effects. You asked for studies. I referenced studies. They don't fit your biased narrative so you go with anecdotes and ignore the studies. What you cited are not studies. They are opinion pieces. The one "study" cited by the Guardian has not been published, nor has it been peer reviewed. The data set draws on patients who are the outliers with initially severe symptoms. These are not the typical cases of Covid. And the "organ damage" is not well defined. And if you don't want to believe that none of my 200 patients with Covid have any long term issues, fine. But my experience in treating patients with the virus is that none of my 5,000 patients have died from Covid. To date, none have spent time in the ICU. Only 2 have been hospitalized. None have long-term symptoms post recovery. In my patients under age 30 who have had Covid, none have had symptoms for more than just a few days. To date, there are zero studies that reliably indicate this virus is dangerous to young athletes. Concerns about "cardiomyopathy" on MRI's done on a handful of patients are severely misleading, as it is likely that one would see the same thing if cardiac MRI's were done on young athletes with influenza, or a variety of upper respiratory illness. It is also likely that any "cardiomyopathy" is transient. Looping back to the title of the thread, the Ivy League can obviously do what they want. I simply think they are making a mistake cancelling out basketball for a second season in a row, when the chances of even one Ivy player suffering death, or serious short or long term health issues is extraordinarily remote. And, perhaps most important, those players are at no less risk now that their season has been cancelled.
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 16, 2020 23:14:59 GMT -5
Let me address each of these "studies." The first, from BMJ, is not a study. It is an opinion piece that attempts to set some guidelines on return to play in athletes. The second, from JAMA, is also an opinion piece, and not a study. It also attempts to address concerns about return to play post-infection. Currently, there is no data indicating that return to play is dangerous for an athlete post Covid infection. The third, from Circulation, is completely irrelevant. It is from March. It is simply a review of the early understanding of the cardiovascular pathophysiology of Covid. In no way does it address any post-Covid outcomes in healthy athletes.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Nov 17, 2020 5:32:34 GMT -5
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Post by doctafeelgood on Nov 17, 2020 6:20:56 GMT -5
there is no point to being so smug when commenting. not sure what your job is but i seriously doubt that all you do all day long is look at studies. i submitted the articles from jama and bmj as recommendations because as you know you will not find double blinded placebo based trials with a fantastic p value in a time where there can not be such trials. you are asking for a cohort that is so finite that there can be nothing more than registries. that was the point of the first two articles. in fact the jama article specifically stated that they just started collecting data in effort to have a multicenter registry. also i did submit the final article fro circulation because it was one of the first studies looking at the damage noted from covid in support of the fact that this in fact is happening. you will see below comment papers from the nih as well as the heart.org reviewing some of the early evidence that college athletes are having problems. i grant you that this is not widespread or highly likely but it is happening. it is exactly for this reason that i would bet that you have home owners insurance despite the fact that a fire happening in your home today is not likely. directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/10/01/covid-19-can-damage-hearts-of-some-college-athletes/www.heart.org/en/news/2020/09/11/a-closer-look-at-covid-19-and-heart-complications-among-athletesfinally i would point out this article that states that: However, postacute COVID-19 syndrome is not just observed among patients who had severe illness and were hospitalized. In a telephone survey conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention among a random sample of 292 adults (≥18 years) who had a positive outpatient test result for SARS-CoV-2 by reverse transcriptase–polymerase chain reaction, 35% of 274 symptomatic respondents reported not having returned to their usual state of health 2 weeks or more after testing, including 26% among those aged 18-34 years (n = 85), 32% among those aged 35-49 years (n = 96), and 47% among those aged 50 years or older (n = 89).4 Older than 50 years and the presence of 3 or more chronic medical conditions were associated with not returning to usual health within 14 to 21 days after receiving a positive test result. Notwithstanding, 1 in 5 individuals aged 18-34 years without chronic medical conditions had not yet achieved baseline health when interviewed at a median of 16 days from the testing date. jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2771581obviously we are not just only made up of myocardial cells and people can have ongoing symptoms that are not just cardiac and unfortunately patients are also having ongoing reduction in exercise capacity that is not explained by cardiac testing. furthermore patients young and old are also having ongoing neurological difficulties as well. i just don't understand why you are not willing to say it is reasonable to hold off on sports when there is a greater good when taking a stance of safety is not only reasonable but warranted. and btw that is coming from a guy that is all sports all the time.
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