La Salle is Cutting Seven Sports...

[SICguy84]

Sad (Baseball, really?).

[MisterD]

STL: Totally get how you feel. These kinds of moves will always directly and personally affect a lot of people.

SIC: I thought baseball was a strange one too but maybe the travel makes it a harder sport to support?

[explorerman]

Baseball has been on the chopping block since I can remember. La Salle has wanted that land for other purposes for quite sometime. That is the one sport I am not shocked about one bit.

[explorerman]

Sept 29, 2020 17:41:19 GMT -5 stlexplorer said:

I'm biased, I'll say it right off the bat. I'm married to a 4-year volleyball player at La Salle who first hand experienced Tom Brennan's clown show. He ran programs into the ground and was allowed to stay in his position and failed upwards. He and the school allowed a joke of a volleyball coach to embarrass the university for numerous seasons. New administration came in and started turning things around, actually brought in a real coach and made a program the school could be proud of. What's the next step? Pull the plug

Not trying to be dramatic but my wife is talking on the phone and texting with former teammates crying about a program that didn't win double digits combined in her time because of how the school treated the sport. As of this week they were still announcing hirings and tweeted about a commitment to the program. Not shocked at continued disconnect from La Salle.

I didn't play a sport but worked for the athletic department and admissions office in my 4 years at La Salle. Obviously I'm a diehard basketball fan but today I don't feel the same about the school I love as I did this morning. I wouldn't be surprised if the school lost a supporter today in my wife.

I wouldn't feel so bad if I thought this was a positive move by the school but what in the past tells me they will reallocate the funds and improve the remaining parts of the school? Only time will tell but it's gonna be a long time before my wife gets over today as she feels like a part of her got erased.

I hear ya man. I probably knew you and your wife. This is not fun one bit. Land usage, budgets/schollies that directly leads towards Title IX, fundraising and seasons all played some varying role.

MisterD is correct about emphasizing this part which people I guess are looking over.. The intention is that other programs are going to get $$ and they better become competitive fast.. Because the expectations are higher when you are fully funded.

[JoeFedorowicz]

Sept 29, 2020 20:24:59 GMT -5 explorerman said:

Baseball has been on the chopping block since I can remember. La Salle has wanted that land for other purposes for quite sometime. That is the one sport I am not shocked about one bit.

I feel like it was saved when I was there...wonder if there was some benefactor money there.

[theneumann64]

I said earlier I don’t want to deal in the abstract on this since there’s real people involved, but I’d have to imagine baseball/softball roster sizes are pretty big compared to like golf or tennis. That adds up in equipment, plane tickets, hotels, etc. I’m sure that in terms of costs that’s a factor.

[JoeFedorowicz]

In order for baseball (not sure about softball) to be competitive in recruiting they need to go on a spring trip. You're talking about 40 people gone for over a week to the south or southwest part of the country.

[belfieldhappyhour]

Sept 29, 2020 22:08:21 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

In order for baseball (not sure about softball) to be competitive in recruiting they need to go on a spring trip. You're talking about 40 people gone for over a week to the south or southwest part of the country.

They've actually changed that up the last few years. Been taking weekend trips to South/North Carolina and other places. Last year, they had weekend trips to Furman, Wake and Wofford. In 2019, they went to Charleston Southern and New Mexico State. I'm assuming they did fundraising for those trips, i.e. they're own golf outing. As you and Neumann point out, that gets pricey pretty quickly.
Along with the costs and cocahes salaries, don't forget the scholarships. I think baseball can max at 12 full scholarships, but that money was normally spread over 18-20 players. Not sure they even had 12 schollies though.

[blueandgold]

Sad day for the La Salle community, but these are the types of painful but necessary, strategic decisions that need to be made to maintain the school’s long-term viability. Whether this was cost cutting or reallocating resources - I could see the PR play no doubt, and we may never really know except anecdotally over time.

Unless having all these sports was a net financial / cash gain for the university as a whole, I think any outside observer would say there is no way it made sense for La Salle to have the most programs in the A10.

Removing the human factor, I do think some of the potential land use opportunities could be beneficial to the school, obviously pending adequate funding and financial health.

[walkon]

Sept 29, 2020 16:38:49 GMT -5 joe said:

Sept 29, 2020 16:04:23 GMT -5 walkon said:

Hate to sound harsh, and I’m kind of biased...... but let’s see that money go towards a facility and into our basketball programs.

Will there be anyone left to go to the games? La Salle took a hit today. I do not think LaSalle will ever recover from this. I am not renewing my season tickets whenever fan are allowed in. Sad day. Forget Basketball. Can Ash recruit players if there are a few hundred kids left on campus?

Slight exaggeration...no?

[MisterD]

Read his post history.

[las71]

I feel for the students who will suffer from the cancellation of their sport but all of this is part of the reorganization of colleges and universities throughout the country. Higher education got away from education as it competed in an arms race for new students. Too much money spent on rock climbing walls, having a Starbucks on campus and yes, athletics. I'm sure at one time having non revenue producing sports was a way to increase enrollment. I suspect that many small schools now realize it's not cost effective. The future of higher education will actually need to be education. A smaller pool of college age students and the need to compete by preparing them to compete for jobs will force huge changes to education. I believe La Salle recognizes this and is trying to emphasize the quality of education. La Salle listed as a college that produces students who do well financially along with efforts to control tuition costs is a step in the right direction. When I was a student West Chester was a safety school, now it's much more difficult to get into. Parents are becoming much more cost conscious as prices rise and starting to look for value. La Salle is repositioning itself to try and meet the demands of a new generation of students. It will be the key to our survival.

[luhoopsfan]

The shortsightedness of this is what infuriated me more than anything. Assume on average 6 seniors graduated across the 6 sports affected, I exclude Men’s Water Polo because there’s little history there for my point. Over the last 25 years that equates to 900+/- alums I would consider in the young alumni group. These people are your future heavy hitting donors. You have essentially eliminated their support for athletics. If their financial model assumed continued donations and support from those alumni athletes then this dramatic change in re-allocation of funds is doomed to fail miserably and only exacerbate the problem financially. Alumni athletes are some of, if not the most, engaged alumni groups. They have a bond with the university that most students do not graduate with as a result of their commitment to something university-sponsored on a large scale. I get their stated logic of the resources needed to support 25 sports is out of reach, but it fails to recognize the gross mismanagement of the last 25 years as well. I’m addition, none of these sports were given the chance to appeal to their alumni in an effort to save them. La Salle fundraising has been horrific because it is never presented with concrete objectives. These sports could have been given the proposals in advance that said you need to form a committee and raise $XXX if you want to see this program continue. Remember that alumni athletes often use their sports as a point of reference when building their careers and as a key to their overall university experience. The message from the university came across as cold and uninterested in the effect it has on alumni athletes. Terribly off-brand for a University that prides itself as “family”. My wife and I are both alumni athletes with over 20 years of donations, tickets, encouraging young adults to consider La Salle and purchasing La Salle merchandise. We had plans to allocate funds from our charitable donations account for La Salle for years to come. I supported Men’s Basketball with enthusiasm for years because I understood that the major revenue potential from that program would lift all programs. That all ended yesterday and I am sad. We feel a part of us and our history has been erased and never given the chance to be saved. Our hearts are broken and will repair but choices the school made, no matter how difficult they may have been, will not be forgotten even if our time there and our past contributions have been.

[las71]

Luhoopsfan Your pain comes through loud and clear and I'm sure the administration understood the reactions would be negative. The fact that they did it knowing this makes me fear for the economic survival of La Salle.

[23won]

Sept 30, 2020 8:46:15 GMT -5 luhoopsfan said:

The shortsightedness of this is what infuriated me more than anything...  I’m addition, none of these sports were given the chance to appeal to their alumni in an effort to save them.  

The message from the university came across as cold and uninterested in the effect it has on alumni athletes. Terribly off-brand for a University that prides itself as “family”. 

Two good points.  Two related questions

1) Is it really too late for affected sports alums to make a pitch to save their sports? I recall West Catholic took the same approach with a planned school closure, but an  enlightened new Pres and some helpful alums turned that decision around.  The ball is in those Alums' court in my view, unless the Admin is cold and closed on this.


2) Is the "cold and uninterested" approach the approach for our leaders?  I got the same impression with the announcement regarding the move to go totally virtual.


What do you all think? 

[luhoopsfan]

There is substantial movement afoot to save these programs. Trouble is that of one men’s program is saved, so too must a women’s program. Not that the fight isn’t worth it but it is more complex than just one sport being saved.

[louth]

How does a school that is 60% female vs 40% male have to consider Title IX in cutting more men’s sports. Mt St Mary’s University cut men’s soccer several years back, the men’s soccer alums were outraged and energized and raised a huge amount, far surpassing their goal and it was brought back. Additionally they added men’s swimming. Makes no sense to discontinue men’s swimming with the facility we have.

[JoeFedorowicz]

If these sports had a bunch of active alumni that gave a bunch of money over the years, they wouldn't have been cut...promise you that.

[explorer1982]

As an alum who played baseball, is in the HOA and has been a financial supporter of the baseball and basketball programs for the last 30+ years, the news of these programs being cut is distressing but not surprising given the financial challenges and enrollment conditions that confront our Alma mater. I’m not familiar with the other programs that are being eliminated but do know that while there were many baseball alums who supported the program, growing that base of support to a level that would make the program sustainable was/is an uphill battle. One can only hope that perhaps there are many other baseball, swimming/diving, softball, etc alums that will be motivated to save these programs with donation commitments going forward. Assuming the administration would even consider that course of action.

[MisterD]

Sept 30, 2020 10:32:40 GMT -5 23won said:

Is the "cold and uninterested" approach the approach for our leaders?  I got the same impression with the announcement regarding the move to go totally virtual.

What do you all think? 

If leadership studied the issues, determined which path they thought was best for the university but then still put everything up for public debate/vote, would they really be leadership?

[big5explorer]

Sept 30, 2020 11:47:51 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

If these sports had a bunch of active alumni that gave a bunch of money over the years, they wouldn't have been cut...promise you that.

And what do you think the reason is/reasons are that there aren't a bunch of active alumni?

I'll preface by writing that I do not think this, in any way, is the fault of the alumni.

[GlitterBro #2]

This sucks for the juniors who lose their senior seasons and likely won't transfer at this point. For the sophomores and freshmen...I would imagine many will transfer if they still want to play.

There are 34 freshmen on the rosters posted for the cut sports who are now without a place to play. This doesn't count swimming and diving and women's tennis that haven't posted their rosters yet. These are kids...particularly for baseball and softball, that lost their senior high school seasons, are sitting home, and now are finding the rug for their college careers in sports pulled out from them. That's a shame for them, but, more importantly, they will likely transfer, meaning one of the smallest freshmen classes in recent history at 565 will now be down 7% of its enrollment (assuming there are 6 freshmen combined for swimming and women's tennis)...most of whom were paying something to be here.

Baseball surprises me. They were turning around under a new energetic coach, and the last 2 recruiting classes were nationally ranked, with some signees announced last week. Their alumni affinity group seems strong and donates. Sadly though, for them to be "saved", a woman's sport will have to be saved as well due to Title IX.

I do wonder though...are universities going to move more towards a "club sports" setup...pay to play. When I was there, I think only ice hockey was a club sport. Now they have a bunch (including baseball), and some schools use this to get around the Title IX restriction, but it does mean the economically advantaged get to play, which seems counter to Lasallian mission.

[luhoopsfan]

I can’t speak for any other programs but Swimming has a very engaged alumni base that constantly supported the program. I was told it was one of the best of all programs in terms of financial support regularly exceeding its goals. An endowment program was being developed prior to this announcement as well so it is incredibly surprising.

In fewer than 24 hours a group of 300+ supporters has been formed to fight this decision so we will see how it goes.

Louth makes a good point regarding enrollment metrics, Title IX and sport elimination. I don’t pretend to know how it all works specifically but I imagine leveraging the cost of a facility that can support two teams with one coach isn’t outrageous and maybe incorrectly assumed it was a TitleIX casualty.

[MisterD]

Its weird how a poster might incessantly advocate for running the university more like a business and then when leadership runs the university more like a business they complain that leadership ran the university more like a business.

[explorerman]

Sept 29, 2020 21:13:27 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

Sept 29, 2020 20:24:59 GMT -5 explorerman said:

Baseball has been on the chopping block since I can remember. La Salle has wanted that land for other purposes for quite sometime. That is the one sport I am not shocked about one bit.

I feel like it was saved when I was there...wonder if there was some benefactor money there.

Absolutely Joe..
During 00s, Football and baseball were on the short list If something were to happen..

[luhoopsfan]

Making a business decision is not in question. The question is whether or not it is a good business decision which I believe it is not. The school is desperate for alumni support yet disconnects a substantial base of its alumni by rendering their experiences and contributions meaningless to the future.

If taking the donor revenue from alumni in these sports to near zero makes more sense financially then it will be proven to be the right decision. If eliminating these sports replaces those student athletes with students paying full tuition, then it will also be a wise decision. I don’t believe that either of those scenarios will be true and that these choices will turn out to be bad for business sooner than later. Time will tell but I imagine alumni donation revenue will not be very high for the next several years.

Approximately 130 current student athletes are affected. Over the next 10 years that is now approx 300 fewer alumni athletes that are more engaged than non student-athletes as donors to athletics. If you’re not cutting costs overall, the revenue still needs to be made up. You have a revenue gap right now. In addition, past revenue you counted on is now in question as you potentially lose approx 1,000 alumni athletes as donors. Where does that revenue come from moving forward? Did they assume donations would continue? I can tell you first hand of several hundred donors, no matter how small they may be today, have pledged not to support the department without their sport. Will it be 100%? No of course not, but how do you forecast that loss and what happens if you kiss the mark terribly? Between my straight donations, merchandise purchase and season tickets I would estimate I contribute more than $1,500 annually to the Athletics program at La Salle. Let’s say there are 100 others like me in that ballpark out of the 1,000 alumni pool, that’s $150,000 annually, $1.5 MM in a decade. What if there are 300 people like me? Maybe there are zero.

130 current student athletes were affected, what if zero of them are replaced with tuition paying students? How does that help the school? Again, there are certainly no absolutes but with as little financial wiggle room La Salle has, it’s a major bet that if it doesn’t pay off could lead to a terrible outcome.

[MisterD]

I don't know how solid the numbers are below, but if they're even close La Salle spends ~$600K annually on just the baseball team.

www.diycollegerankings.com/how-much-do-d1-colleges-spend-on-baseball-programs/2505/

[belfieldhappyhour]

Sept 30, 2020 10:58:46 GMT -5 luhoopsfan said:

There is substantial movement afoot to save these programs. Trouble is that of one men’s program is saved, so too must a women’s program. Not that the fight isn’t worth it but it is more complex than just one sport being saved.

I am friends with an early 00s baseball alum, who said there is some sort of conference call tonight. He also posted on social media that the alums raised $25k last year for the program.

Not sure a women's sport would definitely need to be saved, if say, baseball is saved. Would need to do a deep dive on the current title IX ratios to figure that out. Its some sort of equation that involves male/female athletes/money allocated v. male/female student population.

[GlitterBro #2]

Sept 30, 2020 18:31:47 GMT -5 MisterD said:

I don't know how solid the numbers are below, but if they're even close La Salle spends ~$600K annually on just the baseball team.

www.diycollegerankings.com/how-much-do-d1-colleges-spend-on-baseball-programs/2505/

NCAA allows the equivalent of 11.7 scholarships for baseball. (http://scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html)

La Salle has 39 players on the roster, so take away the 11.7 in scholarships they are allotted, and they have the equivalent of tuition and room and board from 27.3 players.

27.3 * 31.5K per year in tuition = $859,950 in tuition revenue from the non-scholarship players

Assume 20 of those 27 live on-campus (maybe more, but conservatively), so add in $15K * 20 on campus = $300,000 room and board revenue

= ~ $1.16M in revenue for baseball players after NCAA scholarship allotments.

I know that's highly simplified since their tuition and R&B go for more than just baseball, but you're losing that much in yearly revenue and, as pointed out above, donations from an affinity group.

[belfieldhappyhour]

Sept 30, 2020 14:55:42 GMT -5 explorerman said:

Sept 29, 2020 21:13:27 GMT -5 JoeFedorowicz said:

I feel like it was saved when I was there...wonder if there was some benefactor money there.

Absolutely Joe..
During 00s, Football and baseball were on the short list If something were to happen..

We all know football was a BIG mistake. Some great guys on those teams, but it had nothing to do with them. Stupid decision by the school to waste that money. I mean they were day-tripping for games at Fairfield and Canisius among others.