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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 26, 2020 16:26:27 GMT -5
I’m not going to debate the merits of what you linked, I’m just going to say that the two sources you just gave both have some credibility concerns turned up with a simple google search.
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 26, 2020 17:14:57 GMT -5
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 27, 2020 7:17:55 GMT -5
Big5Explorer, you make a very strong argument for the science supporting the validity of the herd immunity. I frankly have difficulty with being persuaded to view this as a positive thing if my understanding of what it requires is correct. My understanding of it is that people have to catch the disease for it to occur. As a result many then run the risk of damage and death. Am I wrong about this, maybe misunderstanding something? For the herd to get immune they have to catch it? Related to this in my head there is a conflict in goals between one who might take a let’s promote a herd immunity goal (perhaps Sweden) with this disease versus lets mitigate and prevent the disease via face masks, social distancing, testing and contact tracing. Am I missing something here? You are offering evidence here to support the phenomena of possible herd immunity with this disease. Do you think this approach should be the goal as opposed to national diligence with masks, social distancing, testing, and contact tracing?
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 27, 2020 11:02:20 GMT -5
Big5Explorer, you make a very strong argument for the science supporting the validity of the herd immunity. I frankly have difficulty with being persuaded to view this as a positive thing if my understanding of what it requires is correct. My understanding of it is that people have to catch the disease for it to occur. As a result many then run the risk of damage and death. Am I wrong about this, maybe misunderstanding something? For the herd to get immune they have to catch it? Related to this in my head there is a conflict in goals between one who might take a let’s promote a herd immunity goal (perhaps Sweden) with this disease versus lets mitigate and prevent the disease via face masks, social distancing, testing and contact tracing. Am I missing something here? You are offering evidence here to support the phenomena of possible herd immunity with this disease. Do you think this approach should be the goal as opposed to national diligence with masks, social distancing, testing, and contact tracing? Until or unless a vaccine is released, herd immunity is the potential end to all this. If someone wants to describe it as a goal, so be it. Vaccines likely will be available, perhaps in the next 1-2 months, but there is no guarantee of that. One way or another, if this is going to go away, or if the risk is to substantially decrease, we need herd immunity. While I'm not dismissing that this is still a potentially serious illness, there are obvious data signals that this may soon be over, or that we are through the worst. If the Lancet study is correct -- that back in early July over a third of NY State had measurable antibody immunity -- it is likely much of the mid-Atlantic and Northeast are through the worst. And, if you recognize that a relatively small percentage of that 35% of NY with antibodies got severely ill, or even sick at all, it indicates that our risk going forward is probably very low. Here's an easy way to think about it: Even if we need 70% of people to have IgG antibodies for this to be gone, NY was half way there in early July. Even if 70% is the threshold, it then becomes statistically impossible for NY to have a surge as fast and as great as their first one, especially now that 2 months later their immunity numbers are even better. With regards to Universities opening, now that many Universities are a month or more into being open, and having students on campus, have (m)any students, staff, or faculty become severely sick? If so, is that number any different than what their overall risk was in the summer?
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Post by gymrat67 on Sept 27, 2020 12:04:43 GMT -5
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 27, 2020 19:24:25 GMT -5
Oh, sorry. I thought I saw something it was going to be removed from the app store. I guess it isnt now. Onto something else this week I guess? And I'm in Philadelphia. Keep on Tokking
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Post by 1801olney on Sept 28, 2020 9:57:34 GMT -5
Oh, sorry. I thought I saw something it was going to be removed from the app store. I guess it isnt now. Onto something else this week I guess? And I'm in Philadelphia. Keep on Tokking Nurses are thrilled.
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Post by longtimelurker on Sept 28, 2020 17:29:29 GMT -5
I’ve followed this board for years and never posted, but this thread is a classic. Cliff’s Notes version for anyone just diving in on page 18: - La Salle was supposed to be open, and then had a delayed opening, and then closed
- Temple closed so La Salle made the right decision
- Duquesne stayed open so La Salle made the wrong decision
- Some guy who is in the business of “being correct” and spouts “Winter is Coming” more than I heard on Game of Thrones is challenging a doctor on medicine, herd immunity, and cross-training of physicians in immunology
- Like real life, people don't want to listen to the doctor
- The usual suspects are parked in their political camps throughout this thread starting with page 1 and lumped other posters accordingly
- Native American health services are insufficient
- The guy who made 7000 posts, most of which are biting and funny, got so butt-hurt at “do you want fries with that” (also biting and funny) that someone got banished
- La Salle’s enrollment is down and finances are a mess
- St. Joseph’s University’s dashboard sucks
- Anecdotal evidence from students in the Collegian is invalid
- Anecdotal evidence from students in the Collegian was suddenly found valid when La Salle released numbers
- Some people disagree with the current administration
- Some people agree with the current administration
- Very few people on here read scientific journals or were science majors
- We can block people we disagree with
- One guy got blocked on twitter by another alum
- Healthcare workers were busy and overwhelmed
- But had enough free time to post dancing videos
- Some guy who lives in a 94% white suburb is making implications that a guy living in Philly is racist
- University of Alabama, LSU, Vermont, Notre Dame, TikTok, Kaepernick, and RBG made cameo appearances in this thread
- The open/close camp seems split right down the middle, although the doctor seems to be the only one making actual scientific arguments
- Maybe 2 posters are actually trying to understand multiple aspects of the discussion. Everyone else just presents “evidence” that reaffirms their original points.
Did I miss anything?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 28, 2020 18:27:24 GMT -5
Good recap. If you have a problem with moderation please PM me and don’t complain about it on the board.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 29, 2020 6:23:28 GMT -5
Big5Explorer, you make a very strong argument for the science supporting the validity of the herd immunity. I frankly have difficulty with being persuaded to view this as a positive thing if my understanding of what it requires is correct. My understanding of it is that people have to catch the disease for it to occur. As a result many then run the risk of damage and death. Am I wrong about this, maybe misunderstanding something? For the herd to get immune they have to catch it? Related to this in my head there is a conflict in goals between one who might take a let’s promote a herd immunity goal (perhaps Sweden) with this disease versus lets mitigate and prevent the disease via face masks, social distancing, testing and contact tracing. Am I missing something here? You are offering evidence here to support the phenomena of possible herd immunity with this disease. Do you think this approach should be the goal as opposed to national diligence with masks, social distancing, testing, and contact tracing? Until or unless a vaccine is released, herd immunity is the potential end to all this. If someone wants to describe it as a goal, so be it. Vaccines likely will be available, perhaps in the next 1-2 months, but there is no guarantee of that. One way or another, if this is going to go away, or if the risk is to substantially decrease, we need herd immunity. While I'm not dismissing that this is still a potentially serious illness, there are obvious data signals that this may soon be over, or that we are through the worst. If the Lancet study is correct -- that back in early July over a third of NY State had measurable antibody immunity -- it is likely much of the mid-Atlantic and Northeast are through the worst. And, if you recognize that a relatively small percentage of that 35% of NY with antibodies got severely ill, or even sick at all, it indicates that our risk going forward is probably very low. Here's an easy way to think about it: Even if we need 70% of people to have IgG antibodies for this to be gone, NY was half way there in early July. Even if 70% is the threshold, it then becomes statistically impossible for NY to have a surge as fast and as great as their first one, especially now that 2 months later their immunity numbers are even better. With regards to Universities opening, now that many Universities are a month or more into being open, and having students on campus, have (m)any students, staff, or faculty become severely sick? If so, is that number any different than what their overall risk was in the summer? I appreciate your thoughtful response to my questions. As you point out the Herd immunity may have an important scientific basis that needs to be further studied, explored, and understood. I think it is important that it be debated (as I see taking place here with you and other board members) particularly as it might effect decision making regarding the disease. A deeper understanding of how this phenomena might effect the containment or elimination of the disease seems quite important to me in this regard. But frankly it is very important to me to get a clarification about whether our national government is making a course change to a herd immunity strategy/approach. This would be a major unacceptable course change for me. It appears there is some indication with the emergence of a Dr. Atlas as a loud and influential voice on the Covid task force that this might be happening. From all that I read he is of dubious credentials in regard to this specific matter and has been called out by mainstream experts for his approach including his colleagues from Stanford.
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Post by crayzeeguy on Sept 29, 2020 7:39:14 GMT -5
You guys need some basketball in your lives
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 29, 2020 10:05:48 GMT -5
Dam, Notre Dame had 18 guys on football team test positive this week. eck!
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 29, 2020 10:43:13 GMT -5
Looks like parts of the NFL might shut down for a week.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Sept 30, 2020 15:25:08 GMT -5
Seems some faculty disagree with the University's decision... along with a student's criticism of how the administration handles mental health of the students... from this week's Collegian (second article after the sports one). Everything's fine though...nothing to see here. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UZkSGjYmrU6nCwkwhCHsT2b2iLeln1LkAttachment DeletedUniversity Accounting Twitter Sparks OutrageOn Sept. 24, the La Salle University Accounting Department authored a controversial tweet in response to a message shared by professor Jason Diaz. Diaz, who teaches integrated science, business and technology (ISBT), tweeted “I’m happy with a lot of the ways I’ve learned to use online tools to support student learning this semester, and I’ll probably use a lot moving forward...but wow do I miss physically being with my students. I really hope I’ll be able to see them next fall.” La Salle’s Accounting Department responded in a since-deleted tweet reading, “With all due respect Jason, we need to be in class in January. Early on, healthcare workers were labeled “essential”, teachers and professors are now also ‘essential’ for the mental health of our students. Time to man up.” MarySheila McDonald, Dean of the School of Business, liked the Accounting Department’s tweet.
Many community members responded to the exchange, characterizing the Accounting Department’s response as disrespectful and claiming the message was exemplary of toxic masculinity. Junior Colleen Boyle summarized the community response, saying, “The unnecessary and belittling tweet made by the accounting department, who should be representing our school in a positive and uplifting way, was very discouraging. Lately the La Salle administration has shown students that mental health is not taken seriously here, and that is something that needs to be fixed immediately. Telling others to ‘man up’ is not a tolerable excuse and is degrading. La Salle, it is time for you to do better.”
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 30, 2020 20:07:00 GMT -5
Pretty sure the student’s issue was with the tone of the second tweet, no? Also, pretty cool that the entire department has a twitter account tweeting anonymously.
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Post by 1801olney on Oct 2, 2020 10:08:17 GMT -5
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Post by jellybean on Oct 2, 2020 13:52:08 GMT -5
Last fall, I watched a guy who could write a 6-figure check without blinking an eye say to the people doing the pitch (and I'm paraphrasing)... this is all great, but I see no plan, no action, no marketing...all I see is hope. Before I write a check and invest in where you are going...I need to see more than hope.I'm going to have my intern compile a comprehensive list of every time you've cited a vague story to immediately back up a point you're trying to make. Okay I will take the bait and assume this was a legit statement concerning use of an intern. When I first read this I thought it was another example for being a " Bad Boss" article. Right up there with "Can you get my dry cleaning?" and " Can you walk the dog?" Seriously that request is going to help an intern? I find this more offensive than the response from Glitter. Now naturally it's time for the obligatory, " oh you missed my attempt at a joke or sarcasm". Five..four..three...
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
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Post by MisterD on Oct 2, 2020 14:13:52 GMT -5
Oh, you missed my attempt at a joke or sarcasm.
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Post by jellybean on Oct 2, 2020 15:09:48 GMT -5
That's my mistake and I apologize. I just realized that was another "pro" open everything up and let what happens, happens supporter. Now back to your crusade against the present administration. What's really behind it? Never said "open everything up and let what happens, happen". Open up with protective measures in place...like many have done. Masks, distancing, quarantine when exposed, etc. Regarding my "crusade"...I wouldn't use that term, but hey...if you see it as that, so be it. I question the continued decisions and, objectively, I see things that give me concern and make me not want to just blindly support anymore. The decision not to open aside, a few other things give me pause, 5 years in: - Significantly declining enrollment over the past couple of years - this is the lifeblood of operating income for a school like La Salle and needs to be the top priority for the administration
- Poor retention on the larger groups of incoming freshmen where enrollment was higher in the 2 years before that - again...see above for the way this affects income
- A tuition increase this year at a time when multiple schools either lowered theirs or kept them the same
- Multiple rounds of consultants brought in to look at facilities, academics, etc...without a lot of action to show for it (anyone know when the Glaser money expires or what we are doing with it, or is the administration commissioning yet another study?)
- Turnover of executive staff...not just inherited ones, but ones hired by this administration - that tells me they are not hiring well...or maybe what they are selling to talent they are hiring isn't reality and they get frustrated and leave. Executive hiring mistakes are expensive
- Asset sales, multiple rounds of staff layoffs
- Lowering of the credit rating to one notch above junk bond status
Those are all verifiable quantitative measures. Also of concern are some anecdotal things around staff and faculty morale, student involvement, parent comments, inconsistency in enforcing current restrictions, etc.
Going "college shopping" the past couple of years gave me a different perspective I guess...maybe more of a consumer and investor perspective....and maybe that's where higher-ed needs to evolve toward. Last fall, I watched a guy who could write a 6-figure check without blinking an eye say to the people doing the pitch (and I'm paraphrasing)...this is all great, but I see no plan, no action, no marketing...all I see is hope. Before I write a check and invest in where you are going...I need to see more than hope. He was right. There needs to be laser-like focus that I'm just not seeing, and I question whether this administration can do that when you have alums that could be 6-figure donors questioning the same thing.
I don't think Glitter is part of some Deep State trying to sabotage this Administration rather I see him as part of the "shareholder base". He is pointing out areas that the school has either neglected, dragged the feet or not put enough effort into making it work. Glitter is someone who freely donates his time and efforts to a school he loves. For that he needs to be commended. I have spoken to many alums (unsolicted) recently. They read the points he made and everyone of them says they are actual facts and 100% correct. No one disputes a word he wrote. Some advised me to not even respond to this thread. Some told me more items but did not want me to disclose. I will share what they wanted to add. The undergrad enrollment was around 4000 not to long ago. It is around 2500 today not including the cuts this week. Freshman enrollment was in the 950 range a couple of years ago. This year it was in the 650 range maybe. Doubt we came anywhere near our goal. To me the most trouble item is that the brand new School of Business Building and it's great reputation had less than 200 incoming FR students. Hello Dean. Glitter pointed out sometime in the past that we had a staggering number of FR who left either after their Fall or Spring semester. To the school's credit they did exit interviews and came up with a "plan". The next year the retention number was almost exactly that of the national average. La Salle loves Consultants. Loved that little nugget from the announcement the school was cutting sports " we would need an Athletic Endowment of $100 million to fully support our program." Got that right from the Consultant report. I understand one report should not surprise a single person here. The other is one that might raise and eyebrow. I personally think it's a "Hail Mary". I hope I am wrong. I pray I am wrong. Finally, the thing that Glitter mentioned about donors seeing a "plan" is something I heard over and over. People want to know where, how and what long term benefits will occur if they write a sizable check. Unfortunately, La Salle isn't providing that to people. They mentioned project after project that never got off the ground. I am told two very very large donations have been scraped. Also told that certain influential (not just money) people want the North Dorms and Townhouse improved. Very frustrated their requests are not being heard. Told that some alums take time to fly into these meetings at their expense only to hear that either nothing or very little has occured since the last meeting. They are questioning whether it's worth their time. I hope Glitter's comments are read by the Administration. Maybe shining some light on it will help. PS one person told me "You know the reason Dayton no longer comes to Gola every year?" "Seems that one of the shower heads in the visiting locker room was broken and La Salle placed a white sock over it to indicate it was broken." I can't make this up.
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Post by jellybean on Oct 2, 2020 15:11:44 GMT -5
Oh, you missed my attempt at a joke or sarcasm. Naturally and right on cue.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 3, 2020 12:04:37 GMT -5
"While the return plan we developed for fall remains largely intact..." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 6, 2020 8:54:25 GMT -5
If they open in January and there is no vaccine, I would love to know "what changed" from La Salle being able to safely open in August versus January. Did she just not put the right level of oversight over planning and didn't have confidence in the school's ability to handle cases? Some of the peer schools seemed capable of it a month+ into the semester. Maybe the only thing that would change, in your hypothetical, would be their ability to resist loud capitalist shitheads? Not hypothetical now with the announcement they are opening. I guess they couldn't resist the capitalists.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
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Post by MisterD on Oct 6, 2020 9:27:29 GMT -5
If nothing changes between now and then and they push forward, it'll be the wrong call then just like it would have been in September.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 6, 2020 9:53:29 GMT -5
If nothing changes between now and then and they push forward, it'll be the wrong call then just like it would have been in September. Attachment Deleted
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,441
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Post by MisterD on Oct 6, 2020 12:31:16 GMT -5
Does the bird represent Herman Cain or am I misunderstanding that really well drawn cartoon?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 6, 2020 12:35:11 GMT -5
Does the bird represent Herman Cain or am I misunderstanding that really well drawn cartoon? I'm not allowed to answer because I'll get bounced again for insulting you.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,441
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Post by MisterD on Oct 6, 2020 12:56:30 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone is rooting for you to hold strong here.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Oct 6, 2020 13:05:35 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone is rooting for you to hold strong here. Like Cool Hand Luke, I've learned my lesson. I got my mind right, boss.
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LaSallePal
Mop-Up Time
Formerly FjordExplorer, currently handsome
Posts: 117
Likes: 95
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Post by LaSallePal on Mar 4, 2021 13:23:44 GMT -5
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Post by gymrat67 on Sept 6, 2021 17:28:37 GMT -5
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