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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 9, 2020 9:16:58 GMT -5
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Sept 9, 2020 9:28:51 GMT -5
Nah..his is an endowed faculty position. Those are funded out of the endowment which is fairly substantial at ND (about $14 Billion)
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2020 9:48:36 GMT -5
Nice pivot attempt, but so far, no football players at schools that are open have died from COVID-19 in PA. So...which is more dangerous statistically? Uh huh huh huh more babys die being born in hospitals than in ice hockey rinks so you tell me which is more safer ok huh huh huh.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Sept 9, 2020 13:54:57 GMT -5
Nice pivot attempt, but so far, no football players at schools that are open have died from COVID-19 in PA. So...which is more dangerous statistically? Uh huh huh huh more babys die being born in hospitals than in ice hockey rinks so you tell me which is more safer ok huh huh huh. If you have statistical data to present on births at hockey rinks, I'd be happy to see it. Obviously the n of 1 was statistically tongue-in-cheek and irrelevant, but in a thread about the safety of opening or closing, pointing to a death of a high-risk student whose school was virtual doesn't bolster the argument of staying closed. We can debate La Salle's administrative decision all we want, but the reality is, enrollment is suffering. The initial report I saw of 580 freshmen 2 weeks ago is now sitting at 565 as of today. The school needs to do something to retain these freshmen for the spring. Likely the only way to do it would be a tuition reduction similar to the reset before that yielded increased applications and enrollment. Messaging a 10 - 15% tuition reduction would go a long way. Rowan and West Chester - 2 schools we compete with for students - reduced by 10 and 11% respectively. I'd love to hear suggestions from people on here who want to see La Salle stay open and thrive to address admissions shortfalls, and retention ideas to lower the risk of losing students in the virtual learning environment. A committee I'm on (a committee of volunteers) is submitting a number of ideas to administration on Friday, including comparative data from other schools. I can incorporate other thoughts and ideas from here for those who want to throw ideas out..no matter how radical. If you're not comfortable publicly stating them here, PM me ideas by tomorrow night.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 9, 2020 14:37:20 GMT -5
Uh huh huh huh more babys die being born in hospitals than in ice hockey rinks so you tell me which is more safer ok huh huh huh. A committee I'm on (a committee of volunteers) is submitting a number of ideas to administration on Friday, including comparative data from other schools. I can incorporate other thoughts and ideas from here for those who want to throw ideas out..no matter how radical. If you're not comfortable publicly stating them here, PM me ideas by tomorrow night. In all seriousness, La Salle has too many majors still.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Sept 9, 2020 15:55:16 GMT -5
A committee I'm on (a committee of volunteers) is submitting a number of ideas to administration on Friday, including comparative data from other schools. I can incorporate other thoughts and ideas from here for those who want to throw ideas out..no matter how radical. If you're not comfortable publicly stating them here, PM me ideas by tomorrow night. In all seriousness, La Salle has too many majors still. They cut a bunch years ago (like geology) when they did an assessment of all departments on campus. Not sure what else they could cut looking at the list of majors and not sure how that would affect students enrolled in those majors. Which ones would you axe?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 9, 2020 16:13:43 GMT -5
In all seriousness, La Salle has too many majors still. They cut a bunch years ago (like geology) when they did an assessment of all departments on campus. Not sure what else they could cut looking at the list of majors and not sure how that would affect students enrolled in those majors. Which ones would you axe? Arts and Sciences School has 37 undergraduate majors listed. Quick look and with no knowledge of how many students are in each one: • Comm and Comm management seems redundant for a school La Salle's Size • ISBT, IT and Comp Sci seems redundant for a school La Salle's Size • Economics and "Economics and International Studies" seems redundant for a school La Salle's Size (move the second to the biz school) • Journalism and Mass Media seems redundant • "Politics, Philosophy and Economics" probably doesnt need to be a major • I wonder how much Pre-Dentisty and Pre-Vet there is • Public Relations can roll into Comm, IMO For all of the education subsets(Chem, English, Math, Spanish, etc.)...if you don't have 80 students in those majors (20 per year), I think you're wasting space and money. *** Again, I'm not a college administrator and don't pretend to be, but it still seems like a ton of majors and that is just the Arts and Sciences School. I'm sure the Biz school is close. (The nursing school seems airtight and having married a Speech Pathologist that went through there, that program was filled to the gills)
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2020 21:18:00 GMT -5
We can debate La Salle's administrative decision all we want, but the reality is, enrollment is suffering. We're never going to agree, or even come close, because the suffering we prioritize minimizing is in direct conflict.
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 10, 2020 16:02:36 GMT -5
For what it's worth, this week's data from University of Vermont, which draws 70% of it's students from outside of the state, as they enter their 4th week of having students on campus:
8039 student Covid tests for the week. (2 students positive off campus. 1 on campus.). 346 faculty & staff tested. (zero positive.)
And this is a 60% decrease in positive cases from the first week of school.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 10, 2020 17:39:05 GMT -5
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Post by calsufan on Sept 10, 2020 19:10:21 GMT -5
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Post by explorerman on Sept 10, 2020 20:36:53 GMT -5
Nice to see this is still going... Impressive...
Fall and winter are coming... The “fun” is just getting started..
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Post by luhoopsfan on Sept 11, 2020 20:41:09 GMT -5
1- testing people without symptoms is absolutely ludicrous 2- running a test that needs to essentially “zoom in” on the virus particles up to 1,000,000,000 times to determine its presence to call it a “case” is BEYOND ludicrous. 3- shutting down anything does not stop a virus. You can’t stop a virus. You can’t control nature. Sweden proves this, Uruguay proves this. See you all November 4th when it’s all over.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 12, 2020 3:53:24 GMT -5
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Sept 12, 2020 15:06:00 GMT -5
Sweden's death rate is almost identical to the US. They're a success story if you think we are.
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 12, 2020 20:30:49 GMT -5
Sweden's death rate is almost identical to the US. They're a success story if you think we are. They may end up actually being a success story, if they aren't already. Neither Sweden, nor the U.S., is at the the top of the list in deaths per capita. coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortalityAnd, both the U.S. and Sweden's numbers are stable, if not decreasing, while other countries in Europe and Asia are seeing numbers grow. It remains quite possible, and perhaps likely, that the U.S., and especially Sweden, have taken the correct course economically, and will end up somewhere near the median in deaths per capita. We also fail to capture the fall-out from draconian lock-downs and slow downs and closings. Let me give you some examples, where health, if not economics are adversely affected. Because no one -- especially the media -- is talking about this: 1. Anxiety rates and depression have risen. I'm certainly seeing it in my family medicine office, and our hospitals are seeing higher rates of pediatric admissions for mental health issues during Covid. 2. The education, and physical activity, for our pediatric age groups has essentially been stunted for what will likely be a full year -- at every age level. Good luck arguing that kids received a comparable education last Spring. Or this Fall. And club sports have been on hold, at best. Many teams and clubs have disbanded. Shutting down sports has severely affected USA Soccer and USA Hockey development and structure in many ways. It will take years to recover. 3. Many many Americans have neglected their health in other ways during the shut downs. Alcohol use is arguably up. Many of my patients have gained significant weight over the shut downs, as they are home. all day, sedentary in front of computers, and likely eating more. An internal study in our hospital recently showed that hospital admissions for cardiovascular issues during the Spring were down significantly. People just don't stop having heart attacks and strokes. They just likely weren't going to the hospital for treatment. "Elective" surgeries were postponed for months. Many of these surgeries were for cancer resections. Or orthopedic surgeries. Dermatology office were closed for months, and it's anyone's guess how many skin cancers were missed, or delayed in treatment, for the months these offices were closed. Dental offices were shut down for months, and patients were forced to be treated by ER's or primary care docs for dental infections. Specialty offices that have recently re-opened over the last few months are now backlogged. It is now more difficult than ever to get a timely neurology, dermatology, or gastroenterology evaluation. 4. I still have quite a few patients who refuse to come into the office for an evaluation of their chronic medical condition because they are scared of picking up Covid. 5. Supply chains of medications, and some medical equipment have been interrupted or slowed because of the shut downs or slow downs. Some blood pressure medications have been difficult to obtain because of supply chain issues. 6. Some businesses, their owners, and those they employ, might never economically recover from these slow downs or shut downs. I am happy to provide studies showing that an individual's health is often directly tied to economic status and wealth. What I am getting at, and I hope it is obvious, is that there is more to measure than daily Covid cases. Or even daily Covid deaths. And that doing everything from home, online, may not be the best and most healthy course, especially at this time.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 13, 2020 5:22:36 GMT -5
Near the median in deaths! USA! USA! USA!
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 13, 2020 6:58:35 GMT -5
Near the median in deaths! USA! USA! USA! Maybe you aren't understanding. With pandemics or epidemics, there is likely very little a community or country can do from a mitigation standpoint to significantly affect the ultimate penetration numbers. Barring a new treatment, or significant implementation of a vaccine, the numbers for most countries will ultimately end up looking similar. Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 13, 2020 8:32:57 GMT -5
Near the median in deaths! USA! USA! USA! Maybe you aren't understanding. With pandemics or epidemics, there is likely very little a community or country can do from a mitigation standpoint to significantly affect the ultimate penetration numbers. Barring a new treatment, or significant implementation of a vaccine, the numbers for most countries will ultimately end up looking similar. Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. You say here- Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. Can this not save lives in the present and reduce the suffering, the stretching out of a timeline, until an effective vaccine is found? Is this not the goal? I think I disagree with your point here, in my view, efforts to mitigate and control bring down the fatalities in the way traffic regulations do with our driving behavior. We have not eliminated traffic deaths (30,000 +/yr) but how many would be dead or maimed without them? Wearing a mask, social distancing, test, test ,test. The experts (medical and scientific) say they help mitigate and control and bring down the deaths in the present. You may be right it stretches it out but I see sound reason to do that as ultimately science can deliver a vaccine. In my view, do these things right (not half-assed) and get out there and live, as we do with driving behind the wheel.
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Post by calsufan on Sept 13, 2020 9:31:16 GMT -5
Maybe you aren't understanding. With pandemics or epidemics, there is likely very little a community or country can do from a mitigation standpoint to significantly affect the ultimate penetration numbers. Barring a new treatment, or significant implementation of a vaccine, the numbers for most countries will ultimately end up looking similar. Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. You say here- Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. Can this not save lives in the present and reduce the suffering, the stretching out of a timeline, until an effective vaccine is found? Is this not the goal? I think I disagree with your point here, in my view, efforts to mitigate and control bring down the fatalities in the way traffic regulations do with our driving behavior. We have not eliminated traffic deaths (30,000 +/yr) but how many would be dead or maimed without them? Wearing a mask, social distancing, test, test ,test. The experts (medical and scientific) say they help mitigate and control and bring down the deaths in the present. You may be right it stretches it out but I see sound reason to do that as ultimately science can deliver a vaccine. In my view, do these things right (not half-assed) and get out there and live, as we do with driving behind the wheel. Spot on.
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 13, 2020 9:46:17 GMT -5
Maybe you aren't understanding. With pandemics or epidemics, there is likely very little a community or country can do from a mitigation standpoint to significantly affect the ultimate penetration numbers. Barring a new treatment, or significant implementation of a vaccine, the numbers for most countries will ultimately end up looking similar. Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. You say here- Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. Can this not save lives in the present and reduce the suffering, the stretching out of a timeline, until an effective vaccine is found? Is this not the goal? As I noted in my argument, unless a vaccine is implemented soon, or unless something significant changes in the treatment of ill patients, you do not save lives by stringing out the timeline. The numbers at the end of the timeline end up being similar. A country like Sweden, while taking a bit of a gamble, is banking on herd immunity (or a virus saturation) being the end game. They may end up getting there quicker, at a lower economic cost. And, in taking this approach, Sweden might lessen the other secondary health implications (that I noted above) of shutting a society down. The United States is actually taking a mixed approach. Some states, like Texas and Florida, are taking a more Sweden-like approach. Some states, like California, and arguably Pennsylvania, have taken a more draconian approach. You may note the state-by-state Covid numbers per capita are not dissimilar when comparing states once viral saturation has occurred.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 13, 2020 9:55:20 GMT -5
You say here- Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. Can this not save lives in the present and reduce the suffering, the stretching out of a timeline, until an effective vaccine is found? Is this not the goal? As I noted in my argument, unless a vaccine is implemented soon, or unless something significant changes, you do not save lives by stringing out the timeline. The numbers at the end of the timeline end up being similar. A country like Sweden, while taking a bit of a gamble, is banking on herd immunity (or a virus saturation) being the end game. They may end up getting there quicker, at a lower economic cost. And, in taking this approach, Sweden might lessen the other secondary health implications (that I noted above) of shutting a society down. The United States is actually taking a mixed approach. Some states, like Texas and Florida, are taking a more Sweden-like approach. Some states, like California, and arguably Pennsylvania, have taken a more draconian approach. You may note the Covid numbers per capita are not dissimilar when comparing states once viral saturation has occurred. Yes you did.
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Post by gymrat67 on Sept 13, 2020 11:52:33 GMT -5
All Michigan State students asked to quarantine due to ' exponential growth ' of COVID-19 abcn.ws/32rf01w
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 13, 2020 13:43:47 GMT -5
All Michigan State students asked to quarantine due to ' exponential growth ' of COVID-19 abcn.ws/32rf01wBut what about the economic impact
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Sept 14, 2020 7:19:42 GMT -5
You say here- Statistically, with pandemics, if you "flatten" a curve, you are not likely significantly changing the area under the curve -- the overall numbers of those infected or dying. In flattening a curve, a community or country is simply stringing out the timeline, but won't dramatically improve their ultimate numbers. Can this not save lives in the present and reduce the suffering, the stretching out of a timeline, until an effective vaccine is found? Is this not the goal? As I noted in my argument, unless a vaccine is implemented soon, or unless something significant changes in the treatment of ill patients, you do not save lives by stringing out the timeline. The numbers at the end of the timeline end up being similar. A country like Sweden, while taking a bit of a gamble, is banking on herd immunity (or a virus saturation) being the end game. They may end up getting there quicker, at a lower economic cost. And, in taking this approach, Sweden might lessen the other secondary health implications (that I noted above) of shutting a society down. The United States is actually taking a mixed approach. Some states, like Texas and Florida, are taking a more Sweden-like approach. Some states, like California, and arguably Pennsylvania, have taken a more draconian approach. You may note the state-by-state Covid numbers per capita are not dissimilar when comparing states once viral saturation has occurred. Where has viral saturation occurred? Didn't know this had happened. Being more concerned about my family's health and less about my wealth, living in Florida, I envy those who live in Maryland or Ohio where I think a more sensible and, I view ethically sound (perhaps "draconian"), approach was exercised by leadership (again in my view). On the face of it, I see this gamble you speak of by Sweden as grossly unethical. To me, even if a vaccine were a hail Mary pass (which I believe it is not) they have a responsibility to preserve lives in the present with the hope of the vaccine. There are certainly value differences being reflected here .
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 14, 2020 8:17:51 GMT -5
Just saw this tweet
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Sept 14, 2020 8:58:21 GMT -5
But don't you think those four extra or nine extra Swedes who died for every one in Denmark/Norway is happy they died with their freedom to not quarantine or wear masks intact?
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 14, 2020 11:31:53 GMT -5
As I noted in my argument, unless a vaccine is implemented soon, or unless something significant changes in the treatment of ill patients, you do not save lives by stringing out the timeline. The numbers at the end of the timeline end up being similar. A country like Sweden, while taking a bit of a gamble, is banking on herd immunity (or a virus saturation) being the end game. They may end up getting there quicker, at a lower economic cost. And, in taking this approach, Sweden might lessen the other secondary health implications (that I noted above) of shutting a society down. The United States is actually taking a mixed approach. Some states, like Texas and Florida, are taking a more Sweden-like approach. Some states, like California, and arguably Pennsylvania, have taken a more draconian approach. You may note the state-by-state Covid numbers per capita are not dissimilar when comparing states once viral saturation has occurred. Where has viral saturation occurred? Didn't know this had happened. Being more concerned about my family's health and less about my wealth, living in Florida, I envy those who live in Maryland or Ohio where I think a more sensible and, I view ethically sound (perhaps "draconian"), approach was exercised by leadership (again in my view). On the face of it, I see this gamble you speak of by Sweden as grossly unethical. To me, even if a vaccine were a hail Mary pass (which I believe it is not) they have a responsibility to preserve lives in the present with the hope of the vaccine. There are certainly value differences being reflected here . I might disagree that there are "value differences here." The goal is likely the same: To limit disease, misery, and death, while not crippling economies. The approaches. are different. And, where has the virus saturated? Wuhan. Perhaps parts of Italy. Partially in the greater NYC area and much of the Mid-Atlantic. Florida will. likely join them over the next 1-2 months, as their daily numbers of cases are 1/5th what they were in mid July.
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Post by big5explorer on Sept 14, 2020 11:43:56 GMT -5
But don't you think those four extra or nine extra Swedes who died for every one in Denmark/Norway is happy they died with their freedom to not quarantine or wear masks intact? It depends upon the final outcomes. If the numbers, ultimately, end up being similar, then yes, the Swedes might be very glad. I think some. of you might be trying to determine. a winner of a race before the race is over. You might note that the number of new cases per day in both Norway and Denmark is surging again. And winter is coming. We'll know in a few weeks or months if that translates to increased deaths.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Sept 14, 2020 12:19:07 GMT -5
The downside of your hypothesis possibly being wrong is that a lot more people die.
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