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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 13:20:56 GMT -5
He's not in the hot seat. It's year 2. If next year we're still sub 500 in the league, non-competitive in the Big 5, not winning a couple of A10 tournament games, and seeing no hope for an NIT bid in year 4, then he's in the hot seat. We need something to be excited about to not feel like the season is over in early February.
But it isn't just him...the program needs to generate excitement and drive more fans. I'd love to know the stats on number of season tickets sold by year over the past 15 years to see how it is trending.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Mar 3, 2020 14:04:14 GMT -5
Since no one else has, I'll say it. Ed has played in some "Division 1 worthy" arenas during away games. I would not blame him if he has been thinking about being reduced to playing in a HS gym with lackadaisical fans who sometimes start filing out with five minutes or so left in the game. And also arrive late. Just look at all the listed programs that have expressed interest in him. Then tell me which game atmosphere is more desirable. Gola Arena or the others? Sorry, but truth IMO
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 14:14:30 GMT -5
Its so obvious and yet people get so mad when its brought up. Objectively, why would a kid not want to play at Seton Hall over La Salle, to say nothing of our ostensible direct competition. If you are the type of person who needs to find blame in these situations, it sure as hell is misdirected if you're picking Howard or Croswell.
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Post by explorer88 on Mar 3, 2020 14:20:20 GMT -5
The school has no idea how to draw fans except they will come when we win. We can't win consistently because school can't update their facilities to be more attractive to recruits. A bad paradox to be in for the school.
We have had dozens of threads on how to market the program and nothing changes.
Those who thought Ash was going to be the savior of the program when he was hired are probably now realizing he needs help. He has made mistakes but I am not sure Jay Wright could win here if he resigned from Nova on April 1st and took the La Salle job with the shit facility we have and shrinking fan base.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 14:53:51 GMT -5
Its so obvious and yet people get so mad when its brought up. Objectively, why would a kid not want to play at Seton Hall over La Salle, to say nothing of our ostensible direct competition. If you are the type of person who needs to find blame in these situations, it sure as hell is misdirected if you're picking Howard or Croswell. Objectively, he can't contribute at Seton Hall if he averaged 10 and 7 at La Salle with minimal length.
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Post by golasalle on Mar 3, 2020 15:04:20 GMT -5
We have had dozens of threads on how to market the program and nothing changes. This is bullshit. They have done quite a bit over the last couple of years to improve the fan experience. The Hideaway tent, selling beer at games, giveaways, better video experience in-game, trying to bring the band back, etc. We all know it is perfuming the pig with the limitations of the facility but I believe that will change too. Honest question Mik, when is the last time you have been to a game? Things have gotten better and they are trying. It's not perfect but they are trying different things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 15:09:51 GMT -5
We have had dozens of threads on how to market the program and nothing changes. This is bullshit. They have done quite a bit over the last couple of years to improve the fan experience. The Hideaway tent, selling beer at games, giveaways, better video experience in-game, trying to bring the band back, etc. We all know it is perfuming the pig with the limitations of the facility but I believe that will change too. Honest question Mik, when is the last time you have been to a game? Things have gotten better and they are trying. It's not perfect but they are trying different things. couldn't agree more. There have been some serious strides. Again, fans show up when the team performs, but the athletic department is doing quite a big on the back end to at least get things ready to roll when the team starts winning. If there wasn't a tent, that would be the reason. If there wasnt beer, that would be the reason. If the band wasnt back, that would be the reason. They have done a lot, and deserve credit. Sure, we aren't like Dayton right now, but they are making changes, which I believe is what we asked for. There is no doubt the experience (taking the performance out of the equation) is better now than it was 2-3 years ago. NO DOUBT. Now, let's win!
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Post by explorer88 on Mar 3, 2020 15:30:00 GMT -5
We have had dozens of threads on how to market the program and nothing changes. This is bullshit. They have done quite a bit over the last couple of years to improve the fan experience. The Hideaway tent, selling beer at games, giveaways, better video experience in-game, trying to bring the band back, etc. We all know it is perfuming the pig with the limitations of the facility but I believe that will change too. Honest question Mik, when is the last time you have been to a game? Things have gotten better and they are trying. It's not perfect but they are trying different things. Fair point on the tent. I should give them credit for enhancing the fans that already go experience. The problem is we are not getting new people to games with that tent are we? Each year our fan base gets older and older. How do we get new fans to go? I went to a Nova game earlier this season and it was an interactive experience that kept everyone engaged. How much does La Salle spend on a nightly game experience for the fans? Not even close to what Nova spends. I know we don't have Nova money but we need to spend money on making the game interactive for as many fans as possible. I understand the program hasn't been great but the first two years I was at La Salle we were at the bottom of the Big 5. I became a fan that still follows 30 years later. Fact is the school didn't do a good job selling the program to me over the years. Never really sold me on much or reached out to me to do more for the program. I went because I loved college basketball and donated because I loved the school and program. I never missed a La Salle game the past 20 years and went to road games as well but now I don't go to nearly as many any longer. Went to The Temple game in November. Not really much different than year's past for me. I am losing the fandom that I never thought I would lose if you asked me 20 years ago. Why? Because we are running in circles and not really doing enough to sustain and build this program in today's college basketball landscape. We are not gaining ground but losing it. I understand we are trying but we are not very effective in changing things. I really do think La Salle's fortunes will improve when the facility finally gets fixed but until then everything will be a grind, including selling tickets. We need to find a way to be more effective in marketing the program to students and alumni.
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Post by theneumann64 on Mar 3, 2020 15:55:08 GMT -5
I know this thread isn't about this, but we're on page 7 already so why not. There is a healthy amount of criticism that needs to be placed on the students and alumni themselves. I'm not talking about the 30 of us on this message board. I get pretty frustrated when someone's solution to all that ails La Salle basketball is that the very small amount of us who do care need to donate and spend more.
I understand that winning will improve things and that the arena is a major deterrent and anchor. None of what I'm about to say diminishes that. But for anyone who's graduated in the last 30 years- think of all the friends, or even people you're just aware of via social media you went to school with- how many of them are at all invested in La Salle basketball? I'm guessing each of us are the outliers for still caring (if they even cared in the first place). Yes, it's hard to foster engaged alums with constant losing, but you should still be able to find more people than what we have right now. How about the alums who were in school for an NIT season and a Sweet 16 season? Is the percentage of alums from that era that are still engaged with the program higher than it is for people who were in school during the really low eras? My guess it not really.
Even when I was at school, I was always surprised by kids I knew, who were sports fans, and just didn't care at all about the team. Place the blame for the apathy at the losing, the arena, the administration, whatever you'd like. But the students and the alums as a collective also do need to bear some responsibility for the overall sense of malaise.
The tent, the beer in the arena (which I grant is only a few months old at this point), student giveaways, what have you, it all seems to only make a small dent. Some of that blame needs to be spun around. No one is under any obligation to care, but the fact may be, that La Salle University in its current iteration, just does not have the fanbase (comprised almost entirely of alumni) that can (or is willing to) support a team at the A-10 level. If that's the case, no amount of brilliant marketing is going to fix the issue. And if we're going to point to the attendance in early 2013-2014, off of the Sweet 16 run, I have to consider that an outlier. If it's going to take us going on a once-in-a-generation run to bring some life into the program, I don't think we can count on that every couple years.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 16:12:02 GMT -5
Even when I was at school, I was always surprised by kids I knew, who were sports fans, and just didn't care at all about the team. Place the blame for the apathy at the losing, the arena, the administration, whatever you'd like. But the students and the alums as a collective also do need to bear some responsibility for the overall sense of malaise. Not sure what the solution is to this. One one hand, it annoys me to look across at the student section and see so few kids there (especially since back in my day we took a bus to the Civic Center...STAY OFF MY LAWN). But then again, kids consume sports...and entertainment...much differently these days as well. Does it come down to the types of students we are admitting that aren't involved with the school? Are there other competing interests that the students don't have time? Instead of free cold pizza to the fans, maybe each student in attendance can associate themselves with a group of their choice like their fraternity or sorority or the Collegian or whatever...and the most kids from that group at the game win the free pizzas..like a post-game party or something with actual hot pizza (or put them in a raffle so even groups without a lot of people get a chance)...maybe that would encourage more student attendance and get the leaders of those organizations to get their members out to the games? Interested students become interest alums, and while winning helps...I don't think it's just winning. They talk about basketball being the front door to the school. We have to make people want to come in that front door...and come back to it...but we need them coming through it while they are students too.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Mar 3, 2020 16:26:26 GMT -5
IMO - La Salle as a whole has dropped the ball on establishing Gola as a singular hell-hole of a court for visiting teams. By making the lack of behind-the-basket seating a "totally unique college basketball experience" thing that places La Salle apart. It would be SO easy to actually establish almost a national reputation. Make Gola the hip place to go for "old school" hoops while almost terrifying/intimidating visiting teams. I think the overlooking of the potential marketing aspect of transforming the negative into the positive is entirely pathetic. And leads to average-at-best forever BB performance from a legendary program.
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 17:05:06 GMT -5
Objectively, he can't contribute at Seton Hall if he averaged 10 and 7 at La Salle with minimal length. Disagree. The way defenses can play Croswell at La Salle versus the way they could play him as a teammate of Myles Powell are very, very different. Its not like he's a create-your-own wing who is going to try to bring the exact same game up a level.
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 17:09:16 GMT -5
Neumann ... I get what you're saying, but fan support really wouldn't change much other than have louder cheering in the same arena for the same product. More students isn't going to win 4 stars and it isn't going to add material revenue. If change is going to happen, its going to be because of a decision to invest or because the team hits big somewhere and there's a run of success to self-fund.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Mar 3, 2020 17:10:28 GMT -5
Someone show me a school without a winning season in five years with a full student section. It is always about winning.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 17:20:55 GMT -5
Someone show me a school without a winning season in five years with a full student section. It is always about winning. St. Bonaventure. 8 years in a row without a winning season from 2002-03 to 2009-10 (including 5 consecutive years with fewer than 10 wins and one year with only 2). Still had packed student section.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Mar 3, 2020 17:23:02 GMT -5
I ask for a comp and get Olean, NY in the winter.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 17:43:23 GMT -5
Only put about 84 seconds of effort into it. I assume you can do other research.
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Post by 23won on Mar 3, 2020 18:59:41 GMT -5
Objectively, he can't contribute at Seton Hall if he averaged 10 and 7 at La Salle with minimal length. Disagree. The way defenses can play Croswell at La Salle versus the way they could play him as a teammate of Myles Powell are very, very different. Its not like he's a create-your-own wing who is going to try to bring the exact same game up a level. I like Ed but I think he will be offered minutes at the recruitment stage, but he will not ultimately get (in season) huge minutes in a program like Seton Hall. He is great at cleaning up the O glass and pretty good at putbacks but he will be small with limited moves in the lane in the BE and more like a 4 pt 3 reb guy IMHO, barring a couple 8/6 games here and there. His midrange jumper when being defended by an athletic player and lack of lockdown defense won't help get minutes either. The BE will add the body for an upside move but I don't see him getting 2019-20 La Salle stat lines in the BE.
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Post by SICguy84 on Mar 3, 2020 20:02:11 GMT -5
Fan experience should he catering to female students and young female alumnae since that is the majority these days. The guys will follow . . .
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 20:17:02 GMT -5
Fan experience should he catering to female students and young female alumnae since that is the majority these days. The guys will follow . . . Dollar avocado-hummus pitas and coconut waters to replace dollar dog night. Also White Claw and Truly at the bar.
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Post by heftyexpl on Mar 3, 2020 20:50:39 GMT -5
Even when I was at school, I was always surprised by kids I knew, who were sports fans, and just didn't care at all about the team. Place the blame for the apathy at the losing, the arena, the administration, whatever you'd like. But the students and the alums as a collective also do need to bear some responsibility for the overall sense of malaise. Not sure what the solution is to this. One one hand, it annoys me to look across at the student section and see so few kids there (especially since back in my day we took a bus to the Civic Center...STAY OFF MY LAWN). But then again, kids consume sports...and entertainment...much differently these days as well. Does it come down to the types of students we are admitting that aren't involved with the school? Are there other competing interests that the students don't have time? Instead of free cold pizza to the fans, maybe each student in attendance can associate themselves with a group of their choice like their fraternity or sorority or the Collegian or whatever...and the most kids from that group at the game win the free pizzas..like a post-game party or something with actual hot pizza (or put them in a raffle so even groups without a lot of people get a chance)...maybe that would encourage more student attendance and get the leaders of those organizations to get their members out to the games? Interested students become interest alums, and while winning helps...I don't think it's just winning. They talk about basketball being the front door to the school. We have to make people want to come in that front door...and come back to it...but we need them coming through it while they are students too. A lot of good stuff in here. Especially highlighting how "interested students become interested alums" To me the school is not reaching out to the students enough. It doesn't matter the team hasnt been winning. Why cant the school go to the frats and sororities and plead with them to make it part of their initiation for their pledges to take part in games? How about a dance competition. Or karaoke half time. Give out a reward for coming up with the best chant/cheer. The loudest house during the game? Instead they're marketing "80s night" 🙄 for the 1000th time. I applaud their effort in getting the ball rolling on tent and beer inside, but none of those changes affects the students. We need young blood inside Gola , the students are most important and should be the easiest to attract.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 21:24:35 GMT -5
Dollar avocado-hummus pitas and coconut waters to replace dollar dog night. Nice textural contrast, boomer.
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Post by big5explorer on Mar 3, 2020 21:27:12 GMT -5
Neither one of those cited above were the best players on their team. Especially Whitney. But you know what they both have in common with Ed? They are all quitters.
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 21:29:49 GMT -5
How about a dance competition. Or karaoke half time. Give out a reward for coming up with the best chant/cheer. The loudest house during the game? Because if you listed out every place for a college kid to do karaoke, “on a north Philadelphia basketball court while people multiples of your age are busy going to the bathroom” is dead last? If the basketball isn’t the draw, you won’t draw.
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 21:30:58 GMT -5
Neither one of those cited above were the best players on their team. Especially Whitney. But you know what they both have in common with Ed? They are all quitters. Are BJ and Ramon quitters or is it not quitting if you quit in the off-season?
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Mar 3, 2020 21:39:53 GMT -5
Leaving in the off-season isn't quitting to me. I agree with you that basketball has to be the draw.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Mar 3, 2020 21:44:03 GMT -5
I mean ... that’s kinda bullshit? You don’t think Syracuse was developing BJ to be a contributor as an upperclassman? If Ed knows he’s leaving and blows his Achilles in the A-10 tourney, your respect doesn’t move the needle. Whether they’re coming here or leaving here, let the kids decide their lives.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 21:52:48 GMT -5
Are BJ and Ramon quitters or is it not quitting if you quit in the off-season? Transferring in the off-season isn't quitting. Leaving the team during the season in mid-semester is quitting.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 3, 2020 21:54:08 GMT -5
I mean ... that’s kinda bullshit? You don’t think Syracuse was developing BJ to be a contributor as an upperclassman? If Ed knows he’s leaving and blows his Achilles in the A-10 tourney, your respect doesn’t move the needle. Whether they’re coming here or leaving here, let the kids decide their lives. By this argument, every lottery pick should just stop playing right now so they don't risk injury.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Mar 3, 2020 22:00:22 GMT -5
Neither one of those cited above were the best players on their team. Especially Whitney. But you know what they both have in common with Ed? They are all quitters. A special kind of asshole to judge a kid without any info behind his very difficult decision.
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