MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 9:26:32 GMT -5
Not an EPMD "Crossover" selling out, an Iverson jumping into the passing lane selling out. And yes, true freshmen are often going to have bad games. You're trying to put as many learning minutes on the front end to get production on the back end. Its not a very novel approach.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 26, 2020 9:43:48 GMT -5
Its not a very novel approach. We're getting blown out by 20+ at points during more than half of our A10 losses. Perhaps a novel approach should be considered.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 9:47:41 GMT -5
... in order to sell out for 15 wins rather than 14.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 9:48:52 GMT -5
And then next season everyone who wanted to send the upperclassmen out for 35 minutes per game to get that coveted 15th win can whine about "why haven't the younger players improved" and willingly not see the correlation.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 26, 2020 9:53:44 GMT -5
I hope your approach gets us a good draft pick.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 26, 2020 10:54:47 GMT -5
I really enjoy the posters that just show up after a loss and spew nonsense.
You're insane if you want to rely on Phiri and Deas to get us maybe 1 or 2 more wins. Why? Deas has shown time and time again he can't be heavily relied upon.
We here to win games, yes but priority #1 was developing players this season. Getting blown out by Davidson, who may have turned things around finally isn't going to change Ash's strategy and it shouldn't.
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Post by las71 on Feb 26, 2020 10:57:53 GMT -5
In fairness to Ash, we are in a total rebuild. Difficult position for the upperclassmen but I don't think it's unreasonable for Ash to be looking ahead. He was brought in to improve the program and if this is his plan to do so then he has to see it through. I'm sure he is well compensated and wants to keep his job or move on to a better one so I can't believe he isn't doing what he thinks is best. In the end while we suffer through another tough season, Ash has more to lose than any of us. To coin a phrase, "trust the process."š
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 26, 2020 13:06:21 GMT -5
Love the schmucks who sat through like 11 years out of 14 of dreck and then cry about the pace of the program.
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Post by 23won on Feb 26, 2020 14:28:40 GMT -5
Lombardi - Hall of Fame
Hinkie -- Currently unemployed
Just sayin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 14:48:41 GMT -5
In fairness to Ash, we are in a total rebuild. Difficult position for the upperclassmen but I don't think it's unreasonable for Ash to be looking ahead. He was brought in to improve the program and if this is his plan to do so then he has to see it through. I'm sure he is well compensated and wants to keep his job or move on to a better one so I can't believe he isn't doing what he thinks is best. In the end while we suffer through another tough season, Ash has more to lose than any of us. To coin a phrase, "trust the process."š I'm ok with losing games. I'm okay with a rebuild. I'm not sure I'm super happy with a team that looks patently disinterested and tremendously incapable. If Deas and Phiri were a big problem, he should have pushed them onto another program, they would have had suitors. You're telling me between Beatty, Spencer, Croswell, JK and the freshman, you can't find anyone that will play hard or smart enough to keep you in games for more than 15 minutes? That's quite an admission of failure. But that's what almost all of these games have been. We get lucky and make more threes than we should and stay close in some, but overall this is very discouraging. I'm not saying Ash doesn't want to win, he certainly does. But I also wanted to be an NBA player, it doesnt mean I was. I wouldnt mind if we were 2-x in the conference (obviously beating Fordham) but what we are seeing is a team that doesnt even look like it can compete. I hope things change and next year is a new year, but there are problems that are far beyond just the the seniors.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 15:05:38 GMT -5
Hinkie -- Currently unemployed Sure, but do a before/after and its hard to argue his approach was more wrong than it was right.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 26, 2020 15:06:56 GMT -5
In fairness to Ash, we are in a total rebuild. Difficult position for the upperclassmen but I don't think it's unreasonable for Ash to be looking ahead. He was brought in to improve the program and if this is his plan to do so then he has to see it through. I'm sure he is well compensated and wants to keep his job or move on to a better one so I can't believe he isn't doing what he thinks is best. In the end while we suffer through another tough season, Ash has more to lose than any of us. To coin a phrase, "trust the process."š I'm ok with losing games. I'm okay with a rebuild. I'm not sure I'm super happy with a team that looks patently disinterested and tremendously incapable. If Deas and Phiri were a big problem, he should have pushed them onto another program, they would have had suitors. You're telling me between Beatty, Spencer, Croswell, JK and the freshman, you can't find anyone that will play hard or smart enough to keep you in games for more than 15 minutes? That's quite an admission of failure. But that's what almost all of these games have been. We get lucky and make more threes than we should and stay close in some, but overall this is very discouraging. I'm not saying Ash doesn't want to win, he certainly does. But I also wanted to be an NBA player, it doesnt mean I was. I wouldnt mind if we were 2-x in the conference (obviously beating Fordham) but what we are seeing is a team that doesnt even look like it can compete. I hope things change and next year is a new year, but there are problems that are far beyond just the the seniors. I had the team pegged to win 12 games total this year in the preseason prediction thread as I said they would struggle to score. While they already sit at 13 wins with 3 games to go, they most definitely have struggled to score, so none of this is a surprise, nor should it be to anyone else. The only thing that surprises me is that I thought we'd lose more in the OOC and less in conference. We're not going to win out in regular season play. I had predicted 7 conference wins, but it looks like we'll only win 5 (1 out of our remaining 3). So with all of that being said am I disappointed? A little but not too much. I think the team needs to give as many minutes as possible to the freshmen. They need to take their lumps and learn. That doesn't mean sit the seniors for the last 3 games, but let the young players gain more experience. The wins don't matter at this point*, development does. I will agree with you that there are problems beyond the seniors. Lots of issues, but I feel it's early in the process. Let's see what the team looks like by the end of next year. If we're not at .500, I'll be concerned. * I reserve the right to still complain during games.
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big5vet
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Post by big5vet on Feb 26, 2020 16:39:55 GMT -5
I watched the game and read your posts. To me it looks like we just don't yet have enough talent to compete in the A-10 as a middle of the pack team. Is it too much to expect a.500 conference record? Maybe the freshmen will develop and close the gap to a degree. Plus Jack Clark and Cliff Moore should add some more. I'm as concerned about the inability to execute a system, both offensively and defensively. We look disjointed on offense and porous on defense. Getting creamed by 20 points every week is unacceptable. The coaching staff has to get more than I'm seeing out of these players. There seems to be something wrong with either team chemistry or the coaching methods being used, maybe both.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 26, 2020 17:01:21 GMT -5
You guys got to chill with throwing the word talent around like it's something that's measurable. Stone, Kenney, Hikim, Spencer and Beatty weren't recruited by P5 schools just because. Clearly, every P5 coach that gave them an offer thinks they have the talent. It's a matter of developing them and it's way too early to tell what their ceilings are. Imagine Wisconsin just gave up on Kaminsky after two seasons because he wasn't "talented" enough. You have to give these guys time to develop.
Also, we aren't getting "creamed" every week. We lost a few bad games, mostly on the road to strong teams in conference play so stop exaggerating. The team has problems that come with an inexperienced team. Free throw shooting and turnovers being two fo which are a big problem for us.
I'm assuming UMass should just blow up what they're doing cause they got blown out multiple times too?
Patience people, patience!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 17:02:21 GMT -5
calsufan- I agree entirely. Out of conference I thought we did pretty well, albeit against primarily inferior competition. I will say, I though Hikim made strides in terms of turning the ball over, Kenney Started playing more like a college athlete, not the best player on a HS team. Ray got more confident, etc. I saw all of this through the teams like FDU and Bucknell. It seems like nothing has stuck, no progress has continued, carelessness is at an all time high, no sense of urgency. Overall, everything just seems lazy and careless which are traits you dont want young guys having/developing. Last year I wasnt upset about the awful OOC because we showed signs of promise in conference. To reverse that is alarming in my opinion. I just want to see progress that I saw before the new year, and we just seem like we fell off and just continue to nose dive.
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nealum
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Post by nealum on Feb 26, 2020 17:06:29 GMT -5
"schmuck". Derived from the Yiddish word "shmok" - Definition: A person who is stupid, contemptible, detestable. Not a very flattering description of folks who post here with a different point of view.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 26, 2020 17:22:08 GMT -5
We have 4 freshmen that are a big part of the rotation. This year was bound to be rocky. Let's see what they look like by the end of next year. Way too early.
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Post by Gnocchi on Feb 26, 2020 17:27:22 GMT -5
"schmuck". Derived from the Yiddish word "shmok" - Definition: A person who is stupid, contemptible, detestable. Not a very flattering description of folks who post here with a different point of view.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 19:56:38 GMT -5
Is it too much to expect a.500 conference record? 50 steps back view ... probably? Ignore your fandom and objectively look at the A-10, a/the top mid-major which hasn't had less than 3 teams with 13+ wins since expanding conference play in 2014. To consistently have teams playing at a >.700, you have to have other teams playing at a below to well below .500 level. If one of those is a terrible facilities program on year 2 of a rebuild ... ... ... you tell me? I know we want to win, but so do fans of every other school and a lot of them are objectively much better positioned to do so. I'd love to throw this narrative away in the future, but its mostly held steady for the 2 decades I've cared.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 26, 2020 21:02:52 GMT -5
I really haven't been that involved with this year's team. But I have watched a very few on TV. I've seen us hustle like holy hell on defense a couple of times. And I mean energetically bust ass on "D" showing a lot of pride. (I forget which games). I've also seen games where we seemingly could care less. I realize that some "off days" happen. But I'm talking about effort. An (unnamed) Villanova coach would never accept less than full effort. Just wouldn't. And I wouldn't think a head coach with a Nova assistant coach pedigree would either.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 26, 2020 21:10:39 GMT -5
"schmuck". Derived from the Yiddish word "shmok" - Definition: A person who is stupid, contemptible, detestable. Not a very flattering description of folks who post here with a different point of view. It's a fun word to say.
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Post by 23won on Feb 26, 2020 21:18:20 GMT -5
Hinkie -- Currently unemployed Sure, but do a before/after and its hard to argue his approach was more wrong than it was right. Itās apples and oranges. We donāt get a top 1-3 lottery pick player for tanking and we canāt stockpile high protected lottery player opportunities by giving up on our experienced players.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 26, 2020 21:41:59 GMT -5
Iām really not trying to pick on guys here but from what I have observed, Deas and Phiri are as reliable as our freshmen. If Deas gets on a roll, sure he can light it up, but heās equally as likely to be pretty horrible too. He has had as many 1 or 2-for-10 games and he has had 7 or 8-for-10 games. Itās wildly inconsistent. I could also do without Phiri pulling up from 30 feet which has become more and more common as the season progressed. Heās another inconsistent offensive threat. Iām not sure who or why anyone else would be a better alternative than freshmen that are developing and have yet to figure out if they are inconsistent or just inexperienced. We know the seniors donāt lack experience and itās impossible to predict the performance. I would rather take my chances with freshmen with the chance they develop in the long run. It would be foolish to assume that the two seniors are more reliable just because they are seniors when their track record says otherwise.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 26, 2020 21:43:04 GMT -5
A10 teams adjusted to the teamās nice start and team hasnāt adjusted back. The team isn't the team yet. Agree. Still a lot of square pegs on this team.
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Post by vital on Feb 26, 2020 22:48:58 GMT -5
Iām really not trying to pick on guys here but from what I have observed, Deas and Phiri are as reliable as our freshmen. If Deas gets on a roll, sure he can light it up, but heās equally as likely to be pretty horrible too. He has had as many 1 or 2-for-10 games and he has had 7 or 8-for-10 games. Itās wildly inconsistent. I could also do without Phiri pulling up from 30 feet which has become more and more common as the season progressed. Heās another inconsistent offensive threat. Iām not sure who or why anyone else would be a better alternative than freshmen that are developing and have yet to figure out if they are inconsistent or just inexperienced. We know the seniors donāt lack experience and itās impossible to predict the performance. I would rather take my chances with freshmen with the chance they develop in the long run. It would be foolish to assume that the two seniors are more reliable just because they are seniors when their track record says otherwise. So Beatty and Spencer is going to be your next 2 fall guys next year?? The last time this program was in the NCAA dance i wonder how many young energetic freshmen played on that team and how many OLD seniors played on that team...
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2020 22:56:36 GMT -5
Sure, but do a before/after and its hard to argue his approach was more wrong than it was right. Itās apples and oranges. We donāt get a top 1-3 lottery pick player for tanking and we canāt stockpile high protected lottery player opportunities by giving up on our experienced players. Great point. I shouldnāt have mentioned Hinkie first.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 26, 2020 23:48:10 GMT -5
Iām really not trying to pick on guys here but from what I have observed, Deas and Phiri are as reliable as our freshmen. If Deas gets on a roll, sure he can light it up, but heās equally as likely to be pretty horrible too. He has had as many 1 or 2-for-10 games and he has had 7 or 8-for-10 games. Itās wildly inconsistent. I could also do without Phiri pulling up from 30 feet which has become more and more common as the season progressed. Heās another inconsistent offensive threat. Iām not sure who or why anyone else would be a better alternative than freshmen that are developing and have yet to figure out if they are inconsistent or just inexperienced. We know the seniors donāt lack experience and itās impossible to predict the performance. I would rather take my chances with freshmen with the chance they develop in the long run. It would be foolish to assume that the two seniors are more reliable just because they are seniors when their track record says otherwise. So Beatty and Spencer is going to be your next 2 fall guys next year?? The last time this program was in the NCAA dance i wonder how many young energetic freshmen played on that team and how many OLD seniors played on that team... You seemed to skip right past the heart of his argument which spoke to how the inconsistencies of the two seniors were similar to the inconsistencies of a bunch of freshmen. So if you're the coach and you've seen 4 years of what your seniors have done and they're inconsistent in their senior years and then you have these 4 freshmen that are inconsistent but you haven't had nearly as much time to do evaluate them, do you a.) give run to the seniors or? b.) go with your future to see if those freshmen are inconsistent because they need more time or because they're not talented enough and you need to reevaluate what you need to recruit for in the next few years? Not a tough decision in my book.
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Post by 23won on Feb 27, 2020 5:55:43 GMT -5
Cal, I think you have a big assumption problem that is affecting your conclusion. The team makeup is pretty simple. You have Ed and Jared for the 5 and the remaining 4 consist of Deas, Saul, Beatty and Spencer (the āVetsā) versus the 4 Frosh.
Please show me statistically where the Vets are inconsistent? I donāt think they are. I think their stats are consistently better than the frosh but they are not getting enough run to optimize their flow in the game and effectiveness.
Look at how we played last year 0-10 before Saul rejoined the team. There is a lesson there
I think the frosh are regressing as the season goes on. You know they can ādevelopā over the summer. Playing 24 minutes when you are not ready doesnāt ensure development. If they were struggling on O but were absolute lock down beasts on D I could see giving some slack but that is not the case.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 27, 2020 9:04:37 GMT -5
Given our relatively soft OoC schedule, this is the toughest stretch of competition they've faced in their lives. Growing pains.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 27, 2020 10:31:58 GMT -5
Cal, I think you have a big assumption problem that is affecting your conclusion. The team makeup is pretty simple. You have Ed and Jared for the 5 and the remaining 4 consist of Deas, Saul, Beatty and Spencer (the āVetsā) versus the 4 Frosh. Please show me statistically where the Vets are inconsistent? I donāt think they are. I think their stats are consistently better than the frosh but they are not getting enough run to optimize their flow in the game and effectiveness. Look at how we played last year 0-10 before Saul rejoined the team. There is a lesson there I think the frosh are regressing as the season goes on. You know they can ādevelopā over the summer. Playing 24 minutes when you are not ready doesnāt ensure development. If they were struggling on O but were absolute lock down beasts on D I could see giving some slack but that is not the case. I already showed Rays and Hikims analytics last week which illustrated they are improving and have consistently gotten better. A bad game against Davidson doesn't change that. Kenney and Stone had some injury issues but Kenney posted some strong games against SJU, GW and Richmond. He posted better analytics than Deas and Phiri in all of those games. Deas hasn't posted a +BPM and an even average ORTG in over a month. I attached Deas analytics for every game since the beginning of January below. He has regressed and shown he isn't reliable. I'm not trying to dump on the guy, he's a good rotational player but he shouldn't be playing over our freshmen at this stage. For some more context, currently, Beatty, Spencer and Croswell are ranked in the top 50 A10 players. At the beginning of the season only Croswell was there. For context, most A10 teams have between 3-5. Dayton, for example has 5. Oh and the Hawks...1. For now, while I'm not condoning blindly supporting Howard or not criticizing him, you just have to give him time to see his plan through. The end of next season is going to give us a very good idea if his plan is working.
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