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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Dec 14, 2019 17:05:54 GMT -5
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Post by hykos1045 on Dec 14, 2019 17:25:50 GMT -5
Define "serious"? I guess I'm at a loss because being lonely freshman year at a new school, and having to stay late and clean the bus does not necessarily constitute hazing in my view. I'm also seeing that the university conducted not one but two internal investigations, of the coach and players. With all sincerity, I wish good luck to any student trying to adapt to the more home~like fit that is Temple Made.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Dec 14, 2019 18:03:52 GMT -5
Pretty mild if you ask me.
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Dec 14, 2019 19:27:33 GMT -5
Define "serious"? I guess I'm at a loss because being lonely freshman year at a new school, and having to stay late and clean the bus does not necessarily constitute hazing in my view. I'm also seeing that the university conducted not one but two internal investigations, of the coach and players. With all sincerity, I wish good luck to any student trying to adapt to the more home~like fit that is Temple Made. Maybe serious wasn't the right word. What happened was serious in that young ladies mind, but I agree with you and Loon that what was in this story was mild, except the kicking circle thing.
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 14, 2019 20:05:09 GMT -5
Yeah. I feel like a shithead if I’m making the “kids are soft” argument but a lot of the stuff described doesn’t sound particularly awful, especially the equipment off the bus stuff. That’s pretty standard Freshman stuff. I feel bad for the girl because she seems to have had a really hard time adjusting to college and probably could’ve used a few people to just be her friend.
I’m open to hearing more and absolutely will not defend the school if more damning information comes to light, but right now I just feel incredibly bad for the young lady. I had a really tough time my first semester in school and seriously contemplated leaving, and I hope she ends up in a better situation for her.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 14, 2019 20:19:35 GMT -5
So had a bunch of interactions with Paul Royal as the WSOC team and XC teams shared the space under the bleachers. He always seemed like a good enough guy. I don't know if I buy the retaliation side of it and generally don't like the argument of a student-athlete who either a). doesn't play or b) quits.
Some of the other (non-bus cleaning) stuff was bad though. Anything that makes a young person feel unsafe is not ok.
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Post by coqui900 on Dec 14, 2019 23:31:20 GMT -5
I think the world of sports and just pretty much anything would be better if things like "older kids surrounding younger kids in a circle and kicking balls at them" or "making other students pick up my garbage" weren't part of the deal. Does that stuff really help any sort of team effort at all? It's just corny and played. None of it is severe or life threatening but it's just so trivial and stupid. Just be done with that kind of stuff already, society, and La Salle sports in particular.
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Post by las71 on Dec 15, 2019 10:03:33 GMT -5
I agree with Coqui here. It's just passive aggressive bullying. Surely there's other ways to bond as a team. Coaches used to be able to get away with physical and mental abuse and this has changed without any demonstrable affect on results. This are intelligent young people in an educational setting. I suspect they could succeed without hazing.
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Post by 1801olney on Dec 15, 2019 10:28:50 GMT -5
Breaking news: Freshman has Trouble Adjusting to College
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 15, 2019 12:22:23 GMT -5
Breaking news: Freshman has Trouble Adjusting to College Totally wrong take without knowing the facts.
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postup
Mop-Up Time
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Post by postup on Dec 15, 2019 15:24:48 GMT -5
"To make matters worse, Miller-People said, she was living by herself — not only without a roommate but without anyone else on her floor — for a number of days before the other non-athlete students arrived on campus. She spent her nights alone, depressed, scrolling mindlessly through her phone and crying herself to sleep, she said."
She sounds way too immature to be at ANY college. She's a product of that culture that calls 17-24 year-olds "kids," helping to produce the childish mindset they have. ("I don't have to "adult" until I'm about 30.") Instead of preparing to show the world how independent and grown-up they are, they embrace the "kid" label and continue with their infantile behavior.
It's a shame La Salle, like so many organizations today, doesn't have the courage to stand-up and say, "We investigated and we find no evidence of any destructive "hazing" and therefore, the case is closed. We wish her well."
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Dec 15, 2019 18:03:04 GMT -5
"For most of the fall, whenever Kayla Miller-People heard the familiar sounds of a La Salle women’s soccer game beginning on the field not far from her dorm, she turned up her music and closed her eyes.
“I just try to go to sleep,” she said through tears in an interview this fall. “Put my headphones in, act like everything’s OK.”
She didn’t want to hear parents cheering and whistles blowing and her former teammates scoring goals and running around the field. All she wanted to do was forget."
I'm trying to picture what dorms you can hear the cheering of the soccer games from and am drawing a blank. Interesting lead to the story, something that can't really be verified.
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Post by hykos1045 on Dec 15, 2019 18:53:24 GMT -5
"For most of the fall, whenever Kayla Miller-People heard the familiar sounds of a La Salle women’s soccer game beginning on the field not far from her dorm, she turned up her music and closed her eyes.
“I just try to go to sleep,” she said through tears in an interview this fall. “Put my headphones in, act like everything’s OK.”
She didn’t want to hear parents cheering and whistles blowing and her former teammates scoring goals and running around the field. All she wanted to do was forget."I'm trying to picture what dorms you can hear the cheering of the soccer games from and am drawing a blank. Interesting lead to the story, something that can't really be verified. St. Basil Court.
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 15, 2019 19:23:54 GMT -5
Literally the second I read the headline of this story I knew we’d quickly get to the point where people started pissing and moaning about “kids these days” in a matter of hours.
It’s a very sad story. Even if you read it and think maybe the school didn’t necessarily do anything wrong, the appropriate human response is still to have some empathy.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Dec 16, 2019 8:31:21 GMT -5
Literally the second I read the headline of this story I knew we’d quickly get to the point where people started pissing and moaning about “kids these days” in a matter of hours. It’s a very sad story. Even if you read it and think maybe the school didn’t necessarily do anything wrong, the appropriate human response is still to have some empathy. If this were a male soccer player, would you be feeling the same way? Also...why does empathy apply here, but Explorer Town is still allowed to rip players like Deas and Stukes ad nauseam over the years.
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 16, 2019 8:58:02 GMT -5
Literally the second I read the headline of this story I knew we’d quickly get to the point where people started pissing and moaning about “kids these days” in a matter of hours. It’s a very sad story. Even if you read it and think maybe the school didn’t necessarily do anything wrong, the appropriate human response is still to have some empathy. If this were a male soccer player, would you be feeling the same way? Also...why does empathy apply here, but Explorer Town is still allowed to rip players like Deas and Stukes ad nauseam over the years. Yes I would feel the same way if it were a male player. I was a Male freshman at college who was severely depressed and lonely and also struggled for years with the idea that if you were a male and were sad about something it meant you were weak. As ofr the Stukes/Deas stuff, in general people are criticizing their play. I do think that goes overboard sometimes, but in general, I think we do a good job here in making sure people don't cross the line on players in terms of their character or personal lives. Like it or not, criticizing a player's on-the-court performance is almost always going to be fair game, even if I don't always agree with it.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Dec 16, 2019 9:12:23 GMT -5
If this were a male soccer player, would you be feeling the same way? Also...why does empathy apply here, but Explorer Town is still allowed to rip players like Deas and Stukes ad nauseam over the years. Yes I would feel the same way if it were a male player. I was a Male freshman at college who was severely depressed and lonely and also struggled for years with the idea that if you were a male and were sad about something it meant you were weak. As ofr the Stukes/Deas stuff, in general people are criticizing their play. I do think that goes overboard sometimes, but in general, I think we do a good job here in making sure people don't cross the line on players in terms of their character or personal lives. Like it or not, criticizing a player's on-the-court performance is almost always going to be fair game, even if I don't always agree with it. I wasn't being facetious asking that about the girls, by the way. And I agree with you on the male/female thing, so I was curious because I do think if this was from the men's soccer team, it would have been a non-story, but the power dynamic of a male coach and a female player gives the story a different vibe. Unfortunately this story tells one side of things...largely the dad's side quite frankly, who appears to be attempting to try this in the court of public opinion by announcing he's retained a lawyer. There's no corroboration with things that happened (like the screaming in the office...who knows if that happened or if he is a loud talker or whatever). By her own admission she was late for a meeting with the head coach to talk about these things. Showing up on time is table stakes in life, and it's pretty disrespectful for her to be late for a meeting like that.
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 16, 2019 9:20:39 GMT -5
Yes I would feel the same way if it were a male player. I was a Male freshman at college who was severely depressed and lonely and also struggled for years with the idea that if you were a male and were sad about something it meant you were weak. As ofr the Stukes/Deas stuff, in general people are criticizing their play. I do think that goes overboard sometimes, but in general, I think we do a good job here in making sure people don't cross the line on players in terms of their character or personal lives. Like it or not, criticizing a player's on-the-court performance is almost always going to be fair game, even if I don't always agree with it. I wasn't being facetious asking that about the girls, by the way. And I agree with you on the male/female thing, so I was curious because I do think if this was from the men's soccer team, it would have been a non-story, but the power dynamic of a male coach and a female player gives the story a different vibe. Unfortunately this story tells one side of things...largely the dad's side quite frankly, who appears to be attempting to try this in the court of public opinion by announcing he's retained a lawyer. There's no corroboration with things that happened (like the screaming in the office...who knows if that happened or if he is a loud talker or whatever). By her own admission she was late for a meeting with the head coach to talk about these things. Showing up on time is table stakes in life, and it's pretty disrespectful for her to be late for a meeting like that. Fair points, thanks.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Dec 16, 2019 10:19:41 GMT -5
Also...why does empathy apply here, but Explorer Town is still allowed to rip players like Deas and Stukes ad nauseam over the years. Almost there ...
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Post by coachd on Dec 16, 2019 11:44:55 GMT -5
Breaking news: Freshman has Trouble Adjusting to College Not sure if a coincidence but snowflakes were falling today!
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Post by calsufan on Dec 16, 2019 12:13:18 GMT -5
Breaking news: Freshman has Trouble Adjusting to College Not sure if a coincidence but snowflakes were falling today! Nah, I think you just have a dandruff problem. Pick up some Head n Shoulders.
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Post by coachd on Dec 16, 2019 12:19:32 GMT -5
Could be! LOL! My co-worker highly recommends this, now playing in theatres... nosafespaces.com/
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 16, 2019 12:26:24 GMT -5
Could be! LOL! My co-worker highly recommends this, now playing in theatres... nosafespaces.com/Adam Carolla used to be a hilarious guy until he realized there was money in grifting confused boomer simpletons by convincing them the reason they're unhappy is because kids at some small Liberal Arts college in Vermont they've never heard of are allowed to Major in Lesbian Studies. I listened to his podcast daily for years and essentially the moment he went viral for a rant about occupy Wall Street it was a steady march towards this.
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Post by coqui900 on Dec 16, 2019 12:45:15 GMT -5
I had a really hard time adjusting to college. And I was just going to college and meeting new people all while also adjusting to life in a new city/metropolitan area since I'm from North Jersey. I didn't have to worry about trying to fit into a team with an already existing dynamic and hierarchy, but none of which are actually spelled out. You have to figure all of that out on your own. Think about how hard it is to navigate the social dynamic of when you start a new job. Then factor in how immature you were at the age of 17-18 and multiply that by dealing with other immature people in your age group. Now add in people kicking balls at your face or making you clean a bus.
I feel bad for the student. I can't blame her one bit. I don't think this is a La Salle problem at all. It's just ingrained in sports and our culture as a whole. I'm really glad it's all going by the wayside.
Screw anyone who thinks this is the case of a "snowflake" or someone not being tough enough to handle it. I'm 41 and of the age where bullying was just a fact of life. I was bullied a lot as a kid. It was just really numbing and depressing. I have a ton of empathy for what this young woman went through because it is just really draining. Imagine being miserable when everyone else around you seems to be having the time of their life.
I have a son who just turned seven-months-old. It would be super awesome if he gets into sports and is talented enough to play at a competitive level in high school or college. But I'm also completely aghast at the thought of him having some older team members being jerks or some wannabe George Patton high school coach screaming in his face.
We really need to get beyond this sort of nonsense. What the hell does it prove? Has anyone become a better soccer player because they had to pick up Jennifer or John's used athletic tape off of the bus? That's not how life works. And, yes, I'd feel the same exact way if this was a male soccer player.
I also think that some people on this board are completely ridiculous and out-of-line when it comes to criticizing a player on the school. Deas bears so much brunt and it goes beyond shot selection at times. The kid was homeless in high school. By all accounts he's a model student-athlete and a great ambassador for what La Salle is about. Good for him for overcoming a whole bunch of odds that I am guessing no one on this board has ever had to (thankfully) face.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Dec 16, 2019 12:49:51 GMT -5
All of that. If your instinct is "this 18 year old needs to be tougher" versus "maybe some of this shit just isn't necessary", you're getting left behind quicker than you realize. Don't fuck up a real life relationship with someone younger because things are changing (for the better).
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Post by coachd on Dec 16, 2019 15:54:02 GMT -5
Could be! LOL! My co-worker highly recommends this, now playing in theatres... nosafespaces.com/Adam Carolla used to be a hilarious guy until he realized there was money in grifting confused boomer simpletons by convincing them the reason they're unhappy is because kids at some small Liberal Arts college in Vermont they've never heard of are allowed to Major in Lesbian Studies. I listened to his podcast daily for years and essentially the moment he went viral for a rant about occupy Wall Street it was a steady march towards this. Lol! Nah, it may have something to do with colleges on the left coast not allowing voices on the right to speak at taxpayer funded colleges without rioting. But I digress.
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Post by explorers2013 on Dec 16, 2019 16:38:18 GMT -5
I think it is pretty standard in any sport for freshman to carry equipment etc. However I am friends with a decent amount of recent grads who played for LWS over the past 10 years and they all seem to say that part of the story isn't even true. They were split into groups of 4 including different classes and rotated carrying equipment throughout the year and there is even a video of upperclassman carrying equipment in one of the "day in the life videos." The whole thing about standing in the middle of a circle and have balls kicked at them is also a bit outlandish as it is a simple soccer drill of keep away that many teams use as practice and does not involve getting drilled with soccer balls. The folks I know who played women's soccer there were some of the closest/tightest teammates on campus and they were also usually the best team led by Coach Royal. I feel for the Freshman who was struggling adapting to college life but from the things I have seen and heard from players this story seems to be very far-fetched.
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Post by 23won on Dec 17, 2019 13:55:21 GMT -5
I have some info from players' parents that the story is not accurate and that the problem rests largely with the accuser. Of course, the school doesn't say anything in defense of the innocent because they are lawyered up waiting for a lawsuit. In the process, an exemplary 14 year coach, a terrific program and all the players get cast in shade. It's a really pathetic society we live in with this "system" and set of rules in place. The parents are not helping the alleged "victim" by continuing the victim story. Most problems in life can be resolved by looking inward, getting help and working through with that help. It certainly appears that did not happen and is not happening here until someone is happy with the payday they are seeking.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 14:57:03 GMT -5
Serious? Because upperclassmen had some seniority? "After one late-night bus ride back to campus, the coaches and upperclassmen made the freshmen stay alone to clean the bus, pick up everyone’s trash, and carry equipment bags through the campus by themselves in the dark, she said." Oh, they just had to clean the bus up? That is such an dramatization. Then it happened to be dark so they walked home. They weren't blindfolded walking through a park. This is a joke. While other schools have physical hazing and abuse, somehow paying your dues, as simple as cleaning up the bus, or eating after the upper classmen is hazing? Give me a break. This is absurd.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2019 15:06:30 GMT -5
Paul Royal is a nice guy. Always has good girls in the program, I know a few from I was there. They are usually the most successful on and off the field. Things are never going to be exactly equal between a freshman and a senior. Just like an experienced teacher has more privilege over a new one. To see such frivolous and unsubstantiated claims against a 15+ year record of extreme excellence is infuriating. Few freshman play for Royal to begin with, that's what happens when you are a top tier program. So this girl and her deranged parents thought she should play. Her attitude reflected it. And that caused more friction on the team which lead to Royal playing her even less. Has no one been around sports? That's what disgruntled athletes do, regardless of the level, even Trey Burke's dad is doing that with the Sixers right now. Pathetic.
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