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Post by calsufan on Nov 24, 2018 14:24:28 GMT -5
I think this whole thread is absolutely ludicrous. We're what, 6 games in and we're talking about the worst team ever? The coach and the team deserve better than this. Let's ease back a little, shall we?
P.S. They could lose all of their games this year and they still might not be the worst team ever. It's not just wins and losses guys.
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Post by mookie on Nov 24, 2018 14:26:58 GMT -5
I see something different from this team. I don’t see a team or coaching staff that doesn’t care. This team definitely cares. They are a worknin progress with all but maybe 2 recruits NOT an Ash recruit. It can’t be easy on them and transfers are a part of a new coaching staff. We lost only 1 recruit when Ash came on board but our expectations went a little crazy when we brought in Mosley and Beatty (and returning Pookie) for this year because it gave the impression that we would be a decent team where adjustments would be minimized.
It’s hard to not have raised expectations when you have 2 very experienced guards like Pookie and Mosley, combined with a roster that has some some experience in Phiri, Brookins and what appeared to be a rising Deas and Moultrie.
This team is a work in progress and we really need to keep that in mind and not go off the rails thinking this team is an all-time worse team. There’s talent, they need to develop and gel.
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Post by explorer88 on Nov 24, 2018 14:35:40 GMT -5
I think getting their first win will also help this team gain some confidence back which might help expedite Improvement.
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Post by durenduren on Nov 24, 2018 15:15:08 GMT -5
I think getting their first win will also help this team gain some confidence back which might help expedite Improvement. I agree with this. Even watching this team lose 25 games is still palatable to me because I'm seeing a system being installed, learning happening, and a program getting direction.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Nov 24, 2018 15:49:44 GMT -5
Point of the thread was not to bash this team but to question where it ranks or appears headed to rank on the list of all time teams. I questioned it not because of talent or effort or wins (hopefully) and losses, but the WAY this team loses. I’ve never seen a La Salle team get dunked on with such regularity because of how little defense is played away from the basket in my 20+ years following the program.
It is true the 3-pt defense is much improved compared to the last few seasons and teams are generally shooting in the low 30% against, which is terrific. I just wonder how much of it is due to the easy baskets available on higher percentage shots. Even with the low 3FGM % allowed, teams are shooting nearly 50% overall, which drives home just how easy we see them get to the rim with regularity.
As far as worst teams ever, going by the SRS (Simple Ratings System) used on basketball reference which incorporates SOS and point differential above/below average, the 2015-16 Explorers hold the title of worst ever. Basically, the formula adjusts the expectations based on your ability to win games you’re “supposed” to win and also factors in how you perform in games you should lose by factoring in how badly you get beat. There’s no shame in losing to better opponents but the formula looks to see how close you are to those better opponents.
The 1995-96 team is the 13th worst because it actually had the2nd toughest SOS in school history. Yes they lost a ton of games but they played tough in enough to offset the overall record. The 71/72 squad is 3rd worst according to this system. It lost a ton of games and had a pretty easy schedule.
Currently, this team is tied for the worst avg points against at 83.2. I have to think that will change over time and the season progresses and the schedule eases a bit. It is also currently only 1 of only 16 teams to average less than 70 per game. Not a good spread.
Again, not bashing but putting out the question of where this team will rank and/or does rank in the grand scheme of things based on the early returns.
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Post by calsufan on Nov 24, 2018 15:52:52 GMT -5
I know that wasn't your point, but the optics look bad regardless. And again, it's only 6 games into the season. This is a discussion for March imo (if at all).
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 24, 2018 16:52:40 GMT -5
This is why we can't have nice things...
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Post by SICguy84 on Nov 24, 2018 17:05:14 GMT -5
The 1935-36 squad (4-13) was pretty awful. With embarrassing defeats at the hands of powerhouse blue bloods like West Chester (twice), Penn A.C. (wtf?) and the egg heads from Phila Medical College. But luckily Prohibition had been repealed and beer was flowing in Philadelphia (legally) again.
Patience folks.
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Post by milkoliverwurst on Nov 24, 2018 17:35:01 GMT -5
The 1935-36 squad (4-13) was pretty awful. With embarrassing defeats at the hands of powerhouse blood bloods like West Chester (twice), Penn A.C. (wtf?) and the egg heads from Phila Medical College. But luckily Prohibition had been repealed and beer was flowing in Philadelphia (legally) again. Patience folks. There's no shame in losing to the basketball powerhouse that was Phila Medical College. There were always rumors they doctored the ball because they shot with such surgical precision.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 24, 2018 17:39:32 GMT -5
I know that wasn't your point, but the optics look bad regardless. And again, it's only 6 games into the season. This is a discussion for March imo (if at all). Since when is this board concerned with optics?
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Post by glorydays on Nov 24, 2018 19:31:06 GMT -5
1995-96 team was 6-24 1971-72 team was 6-19 They got a shot
[/quote] Showing my age, but that '71-'72 was awful. Mostly freshmen (maybe sophomores because freshmen did not play) like Joe DiCocco, Frank Moffatt and Joe Rapczynski along with Jim Crawford. This was the year after the Durrett era and would have been Westhead's first recruiting class. Lost their first 4 and their last 8. However, Westhead managed to bring in Charlie Wise and Joe Bryant after that year and things improved dramatically. [/quote] Chuck, for you to leave out Steve Baruffi from that 71-72 team list, confirms my long held belief that you don't like Italians.
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Post by Gnocchi on Nov 24, 2018 19:49:18 GMT -5
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Post by jb71 on Nov 24, 2018 19:55:49 GMT -5
Don't forget Frank Doyle on that team. They were all Sophomores except Jim Crawford who was great. I remember him taking it to two 7 footers on USC in the Palestra. It was the worst team I ever saw. Oddly though they were a pretty good Freshman team. He a gaurd Jimmy Haggarty and a big center Kevin McBain who was all legs and arms and could jump about 1 inch. They won a Freshman tournament in Nebraska I think and had a pretty good record but none of them ever amounted to much over the years.... I always did like Steve Barufi though😊
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Post by crayzeeguy on Nov 24, 2018 21:40:35 GMT -5
I read on my own blog that Ash is tanking hard to trick some current players into transferring out. Word on the dark web is that he has some handshake deals for about eight four-star transfers.
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Post by durenduren on Nov 24, 2018 22:53:42 GMT -5
I read on my own blog that Ash is tanking hard to trick some current players into transferring out. Word on the dark web is that he has some handshake deals for about eight four-star transfers. Peter Boyle shot JFK. Youze heard it here first.
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Post by crayzeeguy on Nov 24, 2018 23:10:15 GMT -5
I read on my own blog that Ash is tanking hard to trick some current players into transferring out. Word on the dark web is that he has some handshake deals for about eight four-star transfers. Peter Boyle shot JFK. Youze heard it here first. Attachment DeletedSTAY WOKE
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Post by glorydays on Nov 25, 2018 7:50:05 GMT -5
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Post by jellybean on Nov 25, 2018 8:09:16 GMT -5
Don't forget Frank Doyle on that team. They were all Sophomores except Jim Crawford who was great. I remember him taking it to two 7 footers on USC in the Palestra. It was the worst team I ever saw. Oddly though they were a pretty good Freshman team. He a gaurd Jimmy Haggarty and a big center Kevin McBain who was all legs and arms and could jump about 1 inch. They won a Freshman tournament in Nebraska I think and had a pretty good record but none of them ever amounted to much over the years.... I always did like Steve Barufi though😊 Funny but almost all those named have been loyal basketball alums. Don't remember the Nebraska tournament but they lost by 10 at Maryland who had Tom McMillen and Len Elmore. No one Maryland played that year lost by less than 20 except La Salle.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Nov 25, 2018 8:25:18 GMT -5
I also want to clarify, I’m not criticizing effort of any of the players. I’m fully aware they are all learning something entirely new and these are the struggles needed. It just doesn’t change the statistics and where it puts this particular team in the all time ranks. Sort of like the Sixers from a few years ago. They were building something but it doesn’t change how bad those teams were.
Good times are ahead (I hope) that will make this all worth it and I’m fine with that.
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Post by Gnocchi on Nov 25, 2018 10:25:50 GMT -5
SRS - Simple Rating System Average for La Salle’s last 4 coaches, plus Ken Loeffler G 1.58 over 14 seasons and 1.70 in his last Speedy 3.21 over 15 seasons and 2.21 in his last Ervin -0.17 over 7 seasons and -0.39 in his last Westhead 1.56 over 9 seasons Ken Loeffler 13.93 over 6 seasons Leaving out Dudey Moore is a travesty. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/dudey-moore-1.htmlHe went 79-35 at La Salle in the late 50's - early 60's and got ran out of town. That's Dudey Moore. Not to be confused with Dudley Moore. Dudey Moore’s SRS was 3.27 in his last season, with a 16-8 record in ‘62-63. “Mr. Moore's coaching career ended sadly in 1963, when he resigned after having been hanged in effigy on the LaSalle campus. The protest was set off when the LaSalle team was beaten by St. Louis in the first round of the National Invitation Tournament. He retired to teach high school mathematics.” www.nytimes.com/1984/04/11/obituaries/dudey-moore-is-dead-at-74-coached-1955-nit-winner.htmlPatience was a touch thinner in days of yore...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 25, 2018 10:32:56 GMT -5
Dudey Moore’s SRS was 3.27 in his last season, with a 16-8 record in ‘62-63. “Mr. Moore's coaching career ended sadly in 1963, when he resigned after having been hanged in effigy on the LaSalle campus. The protest was set off when the LaSalle team was beaten by St. Louis in the first round of the National Invitation Tournament. He retired to teach high school mathematics.” www.nytimes.com/1984/04/11/obituaries/dudey-moore-is-dead-at-74-coached-1955-nit-winner.htmlPatience was a touch thinner in days of yore... NY Times is clearly fake news...couldn't even be bothered to spell "La Salle" properly in the write-up.
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Post by explorer88 on Nov 25, 2018 10:54:38 GMT -5
La Salle clearly had higher standards of winning in yesteryear than now. Students not happy with s first round loss? What would happen starting 0-6?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Nov 25, 2018 11:11:57 GMT -5
...if only they had Internet message boards back in the day with which to air their frustrations.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Nov 25, 2018 12:33:13 GMT -5
Kimbrough/Brookins/Powell/Moultrie/Carter. Then Deas, Croswell, Cheddi, Beatty. Am I missing anyone? BTW - Coaching should STOP Kimbrough from pick up bad fouls. A second fould early or a third foul mid-game is a lot more important and damaging than giving up one field goal
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Post by big5explorer on Nov 25, 2018 14:31:47 GMT -5
The 1935 team only had 4 wins. They didn’t make a 3 point shot the entire season and all the cheerleaders were men. Talk about a tough year....
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Nov 25, 2018 15:10:58 GMT -5
After watching us play I can understand why this thought/question would surface. Other than the Lafayette game we just did not seem competitive with the opposition. I think that was the only 1 so far we could have picked off, so to speak. Can we we get better ? We all gotta believe this. But if not.....
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Post by calsufan on Mar 9, 2019 21:18:25 GMT -5
So as I said when this thread first came out, this was a discussion for March. Does anyone even remotely think this was the worst La Salle team ever? I'll take an educated guess and say NO ONE will say that it was. This team showed heart and hustle which is what I was looking for as keys in the beginning of the season. Yes, they were inconsistent and still had some bad games, but guess what? They showed a lot of improvement over the course of the season.
I think this team with the talent coming in, the good coaching and the buy in from the players is on an upward trajectory. Congrats to the team and the coaching staff. And this is exactly why we shouldn't have had this thread six games into the season.
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Post by explorer88 on Mar 9, 2019 22:01:39 GMT -5
I will say no for sure that this was not the worst La Salle team as far as a season goes. I think Ash did a good job pulling it together with a roster short on talent.
I will say the first 10 games were the worst La Salle team I ever watched. That was horrendous basketball looking back on it.
Looking forward to what next year brings.
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Post by coachd on Mar 11, 2019 10:17:12 GMT -5
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Post by Gnocchi on Mar 11, 2019 10:48:26 GMT -5
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