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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 8:44:37 GMT -5
Lunardi has now resorted to using his Bracketology gig on ESPN to shamelessly lobby for St Joe's inclusion in the new league that the BE7 will be forming hawkhoopclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10928 It really is disgusting. He goes back 12 years to do his study. Why 12 years he says? He gives a bullsh*t reason, but the real reason is because it captures the Nelson-era at St Joe's and makes them look better than they are. You can be sure he wouldn't do it based on the last 8 years. He's advocating they go to 14 or 12 teams, and of course, the Hawks are included, and he even goes so far as to write that if they go to 12 teams, the two who should be left out are Richmond and Saint Louis. The absolute balls of this guy to write this garbage. It reeks of desperation. And surprise, surprise, the only TV market with two teams in this 14 or 12 team league is ............. Philadelphia. He ignores VCU, which is even more ridiculous. He advocates taking St Joe's over SLU (with the St Louis market, it's beautiful new arena, and recent success) and Richmond (with the Richmond market, their 9k recently renovated arena, and more recent success than St Joe's). Joey may have outsmarted himself on this one though. If you want people to take you seriously when you're looking to get yourself invited into a league, you don't trash over half of the current members (Seton Hall, Providence, St John's, DePaul), which is what he did in this article. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 18:50:42 GMT -5
Richmond is going nowhere. without men's soccer the big Least won't touch them. They can go to one of the southern conferences where soccer doesn't exist.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Dec 19, 2012 20:52:53 GMT -5
Lunardi has now resorted to using his Bracketology gig on ESPN to shamelessly lobby for St Joe's inclusion in the new league that the BE7 will be forming hawkhoopclub.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=10928 It really is disgusting. He goes back 12 years to do his study. Why 12 years he says? He gives a bullsh*t reason, but the real reason is because it captures the Nelson-era at St Joe's and makes them look better than they are. You can be sure he wouldn't do it based on the last 8 years. He's advocating they go to 14 or 12 teams, and of course, the Hawks are included, and he even goes so far as to write that if they go to 12 teams, the two who should be left out are Richmond and Saint Louis. The absolute balls of this guy to write this garbage. It reeks of desperation. And surprise, surprise, the only TV market with two teams in this 14 or 12 team league is ............. Philadelphia. He ignores VCU, which is even more ridiculous. He advocates taking St Joe's over SLU (with the St Louis market, it's beautiful new arena, and recent success) and Richmond (with the Richmond market, their 9k recently renovated arena, and more recent success than St Joe's). Joey may have outsmarted himself on this one though. If you want people to take you seriously when you're looking to get yourself invited into a league, you don't trash over half of the current members (Seton Hall, Providence, St John's, DePaul), which is what he did in this article. KJMac, I think you are spot on here. The arguments formed here would certainly fit well if the author was a member of the St Joseph's athletic department or a St Joe's messageboard poster. But this fellow is supposed to be unbiased and bringing objectivity to his analysis. Cred shredding for sure! |
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Post by cpico on Dec 19, 2012 21:20:54 GMT -5
We could also look at it this way:
Nelson was on Campus from the 2000-01 season through the 2003-04 season - St. Joseph was in 3 NCAA tournaments during Nelson's time on Campus.
The 8 (eight) seasons after Nelson left, St. Joseph has been in 1 NCAA tournament.
The 14 (fourteen) seasons prior to Nelson arriving, St. Joseph was in 1 NCAA tournament.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Dec 19, 2012 23:13:36 GMT -5
KJMac, I think you are spot on here. The arguments formed here would certainly fit well if the author was a member of the St Joseph's athletic department or a St Joe's messageboard poster. But this fellow is supposed to be unbiased and bringing objectivity to his analysis. Cred shredding for sure! While there is a blurry line here with ESPN, Joe is, first and foremost, a member of St. Joseph's athletic department and the head of University PR. I don't know if shenanigans are afoot and quite frankly, most of the St. Joe's board doesn't like the C-7 idea anyway. ~Joe Fedorowicz Philahoops.com |
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Post by luhoopsfan on Dec 19, 2012 23:37:05 GMT -5
We could also look at it this way: Nelson was on Campus from the 2000-01 season through the 2003-04 season - St. Joseph was in 3 NCAA tournaments during Nelson's time on Campus. The 8 (eight) seasons after Nelson left, St. Joseph has been in 1 NCAA tournament. The 14 (fourteen) seasons prior to Nelson arriving, St. Joseph was in 1 NCAA tournament. Wait- are you serious? In 22 seasons they had TWO tournament appearances? So if we make the dance this year it would be 1 appearance in 21 seasons, meaning they would have only 1 more appearance than us? My God, they talk like Nelson made them great but they were some sort of national team every year before and after that. It's really not that much different than our 21 years and if Nelson never came they would be basically no different. Very interesting if accurate |
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 20, 2012 8:00:10 GMT -5
Well, you can't just take out the Nelson years, but the point is that their last 25 years aren't quite what they envision it was. The Nelson/ West teams gave them a boost, but it didn't turn them in to some national power going forward.
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Post by victoriouslasalle on Dec 20, 2012 8:52:36 GMT -5
KJMac, I think you are spot on here. The arguments formed here would certainly fit well if the author was a member of the St Joseph's athletic department or a St Joe's messageboard poster. But this fellow is supposed to be unbiased and bringing objectivity to his analysis. Cred shredding for sure! While there is a blurry line here with ESPN, Joe is, first and foremost, a member of St. Joseph's athletic department and the head of University PR. I don't know if shenanigans are afoot and quite frankly, most of the St. Joe's board doesn't like the C-7 idea anyway. ~Joe Fedorowicz Philahoops.com Joe, thanks for the clarification. I doubt that ESPN pays him to write PR pieces for St Joes? A blurring of roles indeed! |
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Post by luhoopsfan on Dec 20, 2012 9:10:28 GMT -5
Well, you can't just take out the Nelson years, but the point is that their last 25 years aren't quite what they envision it was. The Nelson/ West teams gave them a boost, but it didn't turn them in to some national power going forward. Exactly my point, and when SJU people try to marginalize Lionel Simmons' years at La Salle I will now point to the Nelson Years as basically the exact same phenomenon, A once-in-a-lifetime player. Except that at La Salle we have 2 other National POY's so it's not all that uncommon for us ;D ;D ;D ;D Sorry i just couldn't help myself. |
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 20, 2012 9:18:33 GMT -5
They are definitely a better program than us, but it's a lot closer than they think it is. They've got a lot more in common with us than they do Villanova.
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Post by rcoz on Dec 20, 2012 9:42:38 GMT -5
he picks st joes because he works their and has an office their hahaha
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Post by rcoz on Dec 20, 2012 9:44:32 GMT -5
neumann is correct as well guys i still dont think they get the teams that they are trying too i think it will be xavier st lou and butler for a round 10 teams but i oculd see them adding st joes and one other as well.
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2012 10:52:26 GMT -5
them adding st joes and one other as well. I have a hard time believing Nova would let that happen without vigorously protesting the inclusion of SJU (PA) in their new league. |
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Post by luhoopsfan on Dec 20, 2012 11:04:16 GMT -5
SJU won't be in the new league. Nova holds some of the highest clout in that group and will be desperate to hold on to it's last major recruiting advantage.
As for comparisons, I'm not saying that thei program isn't better than ours, but let's not fool ourselves and think that they are somehow light years ahead - in the last 32 seasons SJU has 8 tournament appearances, La Salle has 6. many would argue this as the "modern" era of NCAA hoops.
since 1990 we've had 2 appearances, they've had 5
The difference has been since 2000, obviously, but considering the scandal we went through and the rebuilding necessary, we've gotten on pretty even footing the last 5 seasons, including several wins over them head-to-head.
I'm just fascinated by the fact that it really isn't as great as they are perceived to be.
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Post by lasalle89 on Dec 20, 2012 11:19:28 GMT -5
Nova will NEVER let that happen. Look how long Nova blocked Temple from the Big East. As someone mentioned in another post, when it comes to realignment the Catholic values takes a back seat. It always comes back to the Almighty dollar. These Catholic 7 presidents may have never worked out in the "real world" but they sure know what drives the ship. All is fair in love, war, and conference realignment.
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2012 11:34:17 GMT -5
Total flight of fancy here – the new league, for whatever reason needs a second Philly catholic school. Nova indicates that it’s willing to extend an invitation to La Salle, but not SJU (PA). Hawk faithful would be under medical observation. World would be a slightly better place.
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Post by ahawk on Dec 20, 2012 11:44:36 GMT -5
If you look at the stats from 1990 on and you remove the Jameer years, remove the 2008 NCAA team and the 1997 Sweet Sixteen run, SJU has ZERO NCAA appearances.
Furthermore, if you remove the two NIT championship games during that time, they have had very little postseason success. Additionally, if you remove the three A10 championship games post Jameer, they have only been to one A10 championship game in 22 years! (They only won that game because of the corrupt A10 refs.)
What you’ve got left is a handful of NIT appearances and back to back 20 loss seasons. This isn’t a good program, it’s a bad one. A10 should kick them out now.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Dec 20, 2012 11:48:54 GMT -5
Or we could just play the game of "if you isolate La Salle's outlier program peak and St. Joseph's outlier program peak, La Salle peaked much higher".
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Dec 20, 2012 11:50:48 GMT -5
"Ha, you're still stuck in the 1950s?"
You know you're referencing a decade ago? That's not getting any more recent.
(Now you don't have to respond!)
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Post by luhoopsfan on Dec 20, 2012 13:00:14 GMT -5
Good to know we're still so irrelevant that other schools' fans continue to come here to monitor our opinions.
Fact of the matter is each school has had a dominant period, ours was the late 80s-early90s, SJU's was more recent and that's the only difference in the programs. That and we won both an NIT and NCAA championship. But if the past doesn't matter, each passing season puts Jameer & Co in the same realm of relevancy as Lionel & Co.
The last 5 seasons, SJU is a combined 80-84 overall, 2-3 vs La Salle with 2 post seasons (1 NCAA and 1 NIT) and 0 Post Season wins.
La Salle is a combined 81-79 overall, 3-2 vs SJU with 1 NIT and 0 Post Season wins.
The biggest difference this year is that SJU had a lot of media hype and we did not.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Dec 20, 2012 13:03:45 GMT -5
Total flight of fancy here – the new league, for whatever reason needs a second Philly catholic school. Nova indicates that it’s willing to extend an invitation to La Salle, but not SJU (PA). Hawk faithful would be under medical observation. World would be a slightly better place. It's not completely unreasonable to imagine a scenario where the league says, "Listen, 'Nova, the TV deal wants another Philly school or we're not getting the $$. You don't want SJU? that's fine, then it needs to be La Salle, take your pick." |
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Post by SICguy84 on Dec 20, 2012 13:16:04 GMT -5
Total flight of fancy here – the new league, for whatever reason needs a second Philly catholic school. Nova indicates that it’s willing to extend an invitation to La Salle, but not SJU (PA). Hawk faithful would be under medical observation. World would be a slightly better place. It's not completely unreasonable to imagine a scenario where the league says, "Listen, 'Nova, the TV deal wants another Philly school or we're not getting the $$. You don't want SJU? that's fine, then it needs to be La Salle, take your pick." Which poison would Nova pick ? |
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Post by cpico on Dec 20, 2012 13:27:28 GMT -5
If you look at the stats from 1990 on and you remove the Jameer years, remove the 2008 NCAA team and the 1997 Sweet Sixteen run, SJU has ZERO NCAA appearances. Furthermore, if you remove the two NIT championship games during that time, they have had very little postseason success. Additionally, if you remove the three A10 championship games post Jameer, they have only been to one A10 championship game in 22 years! (They only won that game because of the corrupt A10 refs.) What you’ve got left is a handful of NIT appearances and back to back 20 loss seasons. This isn’t a good program, it’s a bad one. A10 should kick them out now. I stand by what I wrote. The 22 seasons surrounding the Jameer years (the 8 years after and the 14 years prior) St. Joe's had two NCAA appearances. Just reality, that's all. |
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Post by coachd on Dec 20, 2012 16:27:41 GMT -5
Let's not forget SJU had a perfect season*  * regular season (not counting any post-season tournaments including conference tournament). |
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Post by ericmurry on Dec 21, 2012 21:12:32 GMT -5
The main thing St. Joe's has over us is fan support. Every time we play at the Palestra, it's at least 70% St. Joe's fans..
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Post by theneumann64 on Dec 22, 2012 12:48:05 GMT -5
That's not accurate.
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Post by lasallerules1978 on Dec 22, 2012 16:19:47 GMT -5
Can't believe the hawks lost to Fairfield at home, I feel awful for them. It must be tough to think your better then the a 10 and lose to someone like Fordham at home.
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Post by ltrain38 on Dec 22, 2012 16:51:47 GMT -5
It's not quite that bad, but St. Joe's was overrated from the start this year. I think they'll level off and be a solid NIT team, but #1 in the A-10 predictions were absurd. I expect to beat them.
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Post by cpico on Dec 22, 2012 21:13:48 GMT -5
On a side note, I really like the Philahoops site. But do you think they will still have St. Joe's ahead of us this week in their City 6 rankings?
Also, I still have no idea how Villanova was ahead of us last week. If they are this week again, it's laughable. We have a higher RPI, a higher Pomeroy ranking, a better overall record, and the obvious we beat them head to head (playing WITHOUT Ty Garland at the time). Not quite sure how Philahoops could have Nova ahead of us, it's pretty clear they shouldn't be.
Right now, and things definitely can change quickly:
1) Temple
2) La Salle
3) Nova
4) St. Joseph
5) Drexel
6) Penn
The above ranking seems to be pretty clear, at least at this point in the season.
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Post by 1stflooredwards on Dec 22, 2012 21:27:39 GMT -5
Agree with your rankings cpico and unless Bracey changes his drastically this week or provides an explanation he's just as clueless as Lunardi - IMO.
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