Big East Non-Football Members to Split?

[explorer88]

Are the non-football members of the Big East strong enough to pull Xavier, Dayton, Butler, VCU and others from the A-10 if they split from the Big East?

Even if they are, those schools will never be as strong without Syracuse, Pitt, and others.

www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21353826/big-easts-non-football-members-meet-discuss-possible-breakaway

[explorerman]

I am not fretting too much. The proposed schools like Xavier are not going to join the existing the BE conference for a variety of reasons like existing mapping of schools or that fact that the football schools do not want them. The conference won't split, the basketball only schools are posturing. They know that their basketball only conference will in no way be able to come close to the $1 million per year. Why do we know this? Because an existing basketball only conference which is up and down better than the 7 schools threatening to break off. Also, athletic departments like Georgetown are broke and will go to the biggest check.

[ltrain38]

Other than Georgetown and Marquette, how is that league even as good as the A-10? Why would those schools leave for that? Can't be worth more money to them either, once football is out of the equation.

[explorerman]

Exactly

[luhoopsfan]

It's amazing to see the A10 actually being better than what would be a conceived conference of the founding members of the Big East. You are 100% correct, those schools wouldn't sniff the money they get under their current deal, plus, they would be competing with the A10 for the limtied remaining slots and the A10 already ahs a boatload of games committed.

Schools like Xavier would actually be worse off financially than they are in the A10. Temple is going to get more money, yes, but from a pure Basketball standpoint, they are moving to what is quickly becoming a neutral mvoe at best.

[mookie]

I'm interested to see what happens. I like the idea of facing Marquette annually (my brothers are alums), but only if we continue on the path to a top A10 contender...otherwise, I'd have to hear their trash talk and have to sit there and twiddle my thumbs...

[neubauer93]

It looks like the A-10 is actually being pro-active and want the Catholic 7 to join us in a 21 team league.

I love it!

espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8736716/atlantic-10-open-adding-big-east-basketball-schools-creating-21-team-conference-source

[explorerpride]

With 20 conference games and our 2 remaining Big 5 matchups (Penn, Temple), we would only have to schedule 7 or 8 non-con games each season. If we're in a tournament, that drops to 4 or 5.

Pretty wild idea.

[jkdem85]

It would be insane if the big east schools joined us. I'm sure idiots over at the A10 forum will call for us or Fordham to leave. Hopefully the school commits to build up gola and the program as part of any deal that may take place.

[scarletexplorer]

Someone said this before in another thread, but be careful what you wish for. Georgetown, Marquette, and (most times) Villanova are players, and Seton Hall and St. John's can be fairly competitive as well. If this goes through, La Salle needs to pick up the recruiting or we're going to be left behind. That's completely aside from the facilities discussion, upon which a moratorium has been placed on this board.

[theneumann64]

Let's say for argument's sake it gets down to 20. How about 4 divisions of 5. Play your division twice each (8 games) then once each against 2 of the other divisions (10 games). 18 total Conference games and you only miss on playing a group of schools every 3 years.

Conference tourney is top 3 teams from each division. Division winners all get Byes.

[sweat83]

I realize the BE schools (and Maryland) that have already departed are doing so for big dollars. But I am not so sure it is the right move. These schools no longer have that athletic identity that the BE (and ACC) brought to their program. Look at BC. I still think of them as a BE school, yet they play in the ACC, and their Athletic program has become absolutely irrelevent. WVU..I had to look them up and discovered that they play in the Big 12?! Same with VaTech. Again, another solid BBall and FB program in the BE, and becoming somewhat irrelvelant in the new league. I expect the same from Pitt, Syracuse (although maybe a little more competitive in BBall), & Rutgers. I'm sure some of the new match ups will be exciting..for example Rutger v OSU, but for the most part, I don't see any of these teams fighting for a BCS bowl bid in the near future, and likely becoming "middle of the pack" BBall teams in their new conference. At least they had an outside shot in both sports in the BE. I don't think they have a shot at all now. Just saying.

[JoeFedorowicz]

I wrote up an idea I hypothesized over two years ago on the old board.

Brian Ewert is correct in a way, I did not take the money argument as seriously as I probably should have, but I feel the power that the seven schools leaving the Big East would gain over what they have now...could be incentive to start something new.

www.philahoops.com/big-east-defectors-and-a-10-schools-should-create-an-all-catholic-conference/

[lasalle69bestever]

I hate to say it, but there really should not/cannot be a moratorium on talking about Gola Arena when discussing moves involving the A-10 and Big East.

Because it, IN FACT, could be a deciding factor when you have four teams in one city. I think it would be foolhardy to think it is not a factor like our foolhardy administration has for so long.

[lasalle89]

WIP was just talking about Villanova joining the A10

[lasalle89]

My son just said to me.."dad you don't want this merger because LaSalle will never be able to make the tournament". It would be very difficult for a small minded LaSalle to compete with Large minded universities who understand the importance of high profile sports.

[scarletexplorer]

Dec 11, 2012 18:50:48 GMT -5 lasalle89 said:

My son just said to me.."dad you don't want this merger because LaSalle will never be able to make the tournament". It would be very difficult for a small minded LaSalle to compete with Large minded universities who understand the importance of high profile sports.

La Salle needs to up its game on all levels, or it's back to the MAAC or the CAA if they actually want to compete.

If this goes through, it's put up or shut up time.

[theneumann64]

I think the best place for us is in the A-10 as it is currently constructed, or how it was the last 5 or 6 years. Unfortunately, that's no longer going to be an option. We're probably going to have to decide between going up in class, like described (if we're invited), or going to a league which will be probably a bit above what the current MAAC is. I would love it to end up in a league like what we're talking about above, but if we honestly will be unable to put the resources into it to become a contender in the league, we'd be better off going "down."

And for the record, there's no moratorium on talking facilities; it just becomes tiresome when every thread becomes about it. But you're right, it has to be at the center of any discussion. about our future. It would be one thing if we had a crappy arena- having no arena at all is not acceptable.

[goexplorers]

Was just watching Nova SJU game and the halftime report was all about these 7 schools joining the existing A-10 minus Char and TU. Dino Gaudio said the G-Town holds all of the cards as they're still trying to go to a football conference, even though they are FCS football. He said that the 21 team A-10 isn't likely, as G-Town isn't willing to go from the Carrier Dome and the Pittsburgh Zoo to Rose Hill and "the 3rd floor gym at La Salle". Pretty harsh words, but true.

[Gnocchi]

Beat me to the punch, goexplos...

Dec 11, 2012 16:02:14 GMT -5 jkdem85 said:

It would be insane if the big east schools joined us. I'm sure idiots over at the A10 forum will call for us or Fordham to leave. Hopefully the school commits to build up gola and the program as part of any deal that may take place.

Dino Gaudio, destroyer of Prosser's Wake Forest program, just kicked Fordham and the Explos to the curb at halftime of Overbrook/Nova on ESPNU, saying the big boys from the Big Least are used to playing in bigtime arenas and won't be making trips to Rose Hill or "that gym on the third floor at La Salle."

[calsufan]

The "G boys" (goexplorers and Gnochhi) beat me to it. I was watching the Schmoes - Vilenova game and hear Dino Guadio say the same thing. Talk about embarassing. Someone please send the tape to Br. Mike and Brennan.

[scarletexplorer]

I don't know how much of a choice Georgetown is going to have without an FBS football program. The Big East was great for good basketball schools without a home in other conferences due to a lack of a football program. Maybe the ACC will take a flier on them to boost its ranks and keep the Syracuse rivalry alive, but who knows?

Still, the dig hits home. These are the types of shots the program has to be prepared to take if it wants a bigger conference with more exposure. It hurts, surely, but they have put themselves in this position. The bright side is that there's always time for change, and maybe this is the catalyst they need. A larger, more competitive conference would force their hand.

[coqui900]

The counterpoint to that is this: Georgetown and Seton Hall and St. John's and DePaul draw flies in NBA arenas. Our gym sucks. There is no getting away from that. But I'll take 3,000 people in a packed gym than 3,000 people at the arena in Newark.

[coqui900]

If the Catholic League splits, where the hell do UConn and Temple go?

Temple has to have some real buyer's remorse. They'd be in better shape staying in the MAC for football at this point.

[scarletexplorer]

Dec 11, 2012 20:19:52 GMT -5 coqui900 said:

If the Catholic League splits, where the hell do UConn and Temple go?

Temple has to have some real buyer's remorse. They'd be in better shape staying in the MAC for football at this point.

UConn goes to ACC I would think. There were rumblings about that already.

Temple may stay put for now, since the Catholic schools jumping ship doesn't alter the football alignment of the conference. And that was really what the whole move was about anyway. I wouldn't be surprised to see them back in the A-10 in a couple years though if things keep going the way they are.

[ericmurry]

It was absolutely the right move for Temple. The situation they are in now is still better than the situation they were in last year.

I'll take a game vs any team in the watered down BE than a directional school from the mid west. Plus, although not the deciding factor, they are making several million dollars more per year.

[theneumann64]

Dec 11, 2012 20:17:24 GMT -5 coqui900 said:

The counterpoint to that is this: Georgetown and Seton Hall and St. John's and DePaul draw flies in NBA arenas. Our gym sucks. There is no getting away from that. But I'll take 3,000 people in a packed gym than 3,000 people at the arena in Newark.

I'm typing up a long thing right now, but there is middle ground. I always point to this, but the Smith Center in GW: there's nothing "nice" or state of the art about that building, but it's at least an arena. There's seating all around, you enter in a hallway, the court is below you when you enter, etc. A building like that, which is miles and miles from an NBA arena, is still closer to Madison Square Garden than it is to Gola.

[ltrain38]

That's exactly it, we don't need anything big (wouldn't fill it) or flashy (couldn't afford it), but something that looks like an arena would be enough for now. It's getting to the point where our standing in a respectable conference is at stake over this issue.

[theneumann64]

I'm going to vent a little here, but it's the only time I've ever done a total vent on either board, so hopefully you'll indulge me. I sadly won't be saying anything new, but I'm hoping maybe getting it all in one place will at least make me feel better:

This arena is like a huge metaphor for all the criticisms, valid, and otherwise, of La Salle. That we're small time, living in the past, an after thought. That we're not in the same league, academically, athletically, socially, or otherwise. That it's a school kids from South Jersey and suburban Philly go to when they couldn't get into St. Joe's, Temple, or Villanova.

To a lot of people, including the Temple assholes who used to troll the other board, La Salle is a small, joke of a school, in a shitty part of the city. There's nothing really of note in the area, although the new shopping center and various improvements to the campus have made student life a lot better, and made the campus much more inclusive. Still, there's nothing that catches the eye of a visitor as a reason to stick around, not even a place like a TGI Friday's or A Chili's to be seen within a good bit of the school.

There are a nice core of people who went to La Salle, loved it, and are what I called "lifetime La Salle." This is not necessarily mutually exclusive to still following the basketball team, but it sure helps. But even non b-ball fans who back for Homecoming, donate, or at least still acknowledge that they went to La Salle and still follow some aspect of the goings-on at the school.

But there are plenty of alumni who basically have nothing to do with the school anymore. Don't come back, don't donate, don't care. I have some people, who I'd still consider friends, who basically have no association with the school and no interest in ever doing so again. And I graduated in 2008.

This (finally) brings me around to this arena. It's a fucking apology. It's all these people like Gonzo, who's only relationship with La Salle is to make jokes about it and insult it. And instead of saying "Fuck You, I love this school," we kind of stare at our shoes. It's such an easy throw away line for every detractor this school has "That high school gym you guys play in." And the fact that they're right about that makes people think, they must be right about the other stuff too.

I love La Salle, and I know all of you do too. I went to work in Washington DC after college and worked with a bunch of yuppies who went to private high schools and preppy colleges. I remember the first time I went out with all of them on a Saturday night- meaning we weren't going straight from work so people were wearing their "going out" clothes instead of just work clothes. One kid was wearing a blazer with gold anchor buttons and huge loafers. 2 other guys has bright pink polo shirts with popped collars and plaid pants on. And there's me, with me hoodie on, black polo shirt underneath, and jeans. And as we were walking to the bar, the thought of "You'd get your ass thrown out of a La Salle party for dressing like these guys" is all I could think.

I got a great education, but it was the blue collar attitude that always stuck with me. The neighborhood is bad? Yeah, I guess so. But there's plenty more character in going into Cold Beer on a Tuesday night with absolutely not 1 dollar more than you need because you might be relieved of it at rake-point (one of my all-time favorite stories ever by the way) than there is in going to Brownie's and getting the cab to stop at Wendy's on your way back up the Main Line to St. Joe's. I love that the campus is like an oasis tucked into the middle of an urban desert.

I'm not Catholic, I'm not from Philadelphia. I hold a visceral hatred for the Eagles to the point where I can't see straight sometimes. I was planning on going to Syracuse. I applied 1 or 2 other places so my parents would think I at least put some effort into looking at colleges. I had gone to Syracuse the week before and loved it (6 inches of snow on November 8th notwithstanding). The next week we went to La Salle and I remember sitting in the auditorium, hoping I would be back in Poughkeepsie early enough to go to my High School's hockey game that night. When someone asked one of the Admissions reps what the average SAT score was, I turned to my Mom and scoffed "Hey, I could go here, probably for free."

3 hours later I told my parents I was going to La Salle.

I fell so quickly in love with the spirit of everyone associated with the school. I loved the small classes, the no T.A.'s, the fact that they were willing to show me the Radio Station and the TV Studio on a tour, etc. that it just felt right. As I sit here 9 years later, I know I made the right call.

So in this long and rambling personal essay, have I touched on the significance of a basketball arena? Probably not. I guess my point is that I hate hearing my school, and it's High School gym, reduced to nothing more than a throwaway line. Because when I say "You're right, the gym sucks" what people hear is "You're right, my school is a joke and I'm ashamed of it." So I'd like to be able to stop conceding the point sometime soon, so that they realize I'm not agreeing with them on everything else too. There's this steel and brick monument to the detractors of this school sitting right on our campus, and I'd like that to be gone soon....or at least just used for Intramurals.

[theneumann64]

I don't want to edit it, but my f-ing bomb was changed to fuzzing via automatic filter.