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Post by theneumann64 on Jan 28, 2016 0:25:55 GMT -5
Please watch the snark. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and this is the second time you are nearing warning territory. I don't like to moderate heavily but don't make the above a thing. Thanks. I have to agree with Joe. That's a little too smug of a comment in my opinion. We're all not going to see eye to eye, but to me, a comment like yours basically says "I'm right and anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot.". That serves little purpose in advancing the discussion. And just to clean sweep the Moderator demographic, I'm in agreement as well. It's. It just you, a bunch of people do this. Just try to allow for the possibility that people can disagree without being delusional.
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hideaway
Mop-Up Time
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Post by hideaway on Jan 28, 2016 8:46:59 GMT -5
I have enjoyed reading the blog as a casual way to unwind from my hectic life. I love La Salle and I love La Salle basketball. Through the years I have read often and rarely post but I do appreciate when people post especially if they are posting things based on real information that they have gathered through watching the team, talking to people in the know, etc. For all of those posters, I want to say, please keep it up. If you three moderators are done the pile-on, I invite anyone on the board to reveiw the posts starting from Jan 26, 2016 at 6:13pm. I tried to put out a rare post from me to inform blog readers about something that I KNOW about based on facts. For that, I am told that I am wrong. "But to say there aren't million dollar donors out there is wrong"- Joe. Never said that. "to say there is some sort of grand outreach to alumni is also wrong"- Joe. Again, never said that. Then there are comments on me not using paragraphs and not using a space between La and Salle. Sorry guys, sometimes I am just tired from work and was just trying to get you some information to inform you of something to stop the endless speculation on an arena. I didn't attack anyone individually, I only made a couple of joking comments after the bullets started flying. And more importantly, was trying to compliment a couple of posters who clearly also have information regarding what will and will not be built next and what the constraints are. Keep this in mind before telling someone they are wrong, especially as a moderator. My goodness, can we let it lie. Now I am going to get back to my job which is one of the ones which La Salle doesn't produce....or does produce...at this point I don't know where we are on that one
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Jan 28, 2016 8:58:47 GMT -5
Have a nice day of work!
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 28, 2016 10:15:33 GMT -5
so....we aren't ever getting an arena? or at least a real upgrade to the current one? I'm still confused.
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Post by calsufan on Jan 28, 2016 10:16:05 GMT -5
I have enjoyed reading the blog as a casual way to unwind from my hectic life. I love La Salle and I love La Salle basketball. Through the years I have read often and rarely post but I do appreciate when people post especially if they are posting things based on real information that they have gathered through watching the team, talking to people in the know, etc. For all of those posters, I want to say, please keep it up. If you three moderators are done the pile-on, I invite anyone on the board to reveiw the posts starting from Jan 26, 2016 at 6:13pm. I tried to put out a rare post from me to inform blog readers about something that I KNOW about based on facts. For that, I am told that I am wrong. "But to say there aren't million dollar donors out there is wrong"- Joe. Never said that. "to say there is some sort of grand outreach to alumni is also wrong"- Joe. Again, never said that. Then there are comments on me not using paragraphs and not using a space between La and Salle. Sorry guys, sometimes I am just tired from work and was just trying to get you some information to inform you of something to stop the endless speculation on an arena. I didn't attack anyone individually, I only made a couple of joking comments after the bullets started flying. And more importantly, was trying to compliment a couple of posters who clearly also have information regarding what will and will not be built next and what the constraints are. Keep this in mind before telling someone they are wrong, especially as a moderator. My goodness, can we let it lie. Now I am going to get back to my job which is one of the ones which La Salle doesn't produce....or does produce...at this point I don't know where we are on that one I don't think there's a pile-on at all. We all just happen to see it the same way. I enjoy your posts and I like the inside information, but I thought you were a little too condescending in a few of your posts. That's all. People are allowed to talk and disagree, but the "Golasalle, You are using way too many facts and way too much critical thinking." and "1801, too much rationale here. Please keep arguments to emotional ones with no basis. This board likes those better." smacks of smugness. The fact that they were in the same thread is basically saying, "I'm right and you other people that disagree with me are idiots.". Maybe you are right or maybe you're partially right. It's just that a little less heavy handedness and looking down on people might be more conducive to open discussions. Keep your posts coming, I enjoy them by and large.
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Post by durenduren on Jan 28, 2016 11:16:50 GMT -5
so....we aren't ever getting an arena? or at least a real upgrade to the current one? I'm still confused. I originally stirred this up to ask about the new fitness center plan and we got away from that topic quicker than Paula Deen would sign up for a butter convention.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Jan 28, 2016 11:35:51 GMT -5
My only issue above was treating "we need a new arena to be competitive at this level" as "I want a new arena and I am too stupid to know it costs money". Snark is good, altering the other side's argument to fit your snark is lame.
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Post by manayunk53 on Jan 28, 2016 13:29:23 GMT -5
I think everybody's comments are great, snarky or not.
But am I the only one who thinks that building a new arena would be a GIGANTIC (notice the caps) waste of money for this school right now? Why isn't there a bigger push to spend a much smaller amount of money to re-orient the TGA floor to go east-west instead of north-south and redo the bathrooms and concession stands? Is that proposal totally dead? I know a while back we discussed that it was close to happening, but apparently was turned down in the end. Is it completely off the table now? This seems (at least to me) to be the most cost-effective way to improve our facilities. Give the TGA a face lift and a 90 degree rotation this offseason, and when the team starts winning next year, maybe people will come to the games and enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back. An expensive, empty arena seems pointless to me.
And I don't mean to make it sound like these changes would be free and easy to do, but this is a plan that is totally do-able and could help us for many years to come.
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Post by manayunk53 on Jan 28, 2016 13:34:38 GMT -5
I think the best course of action is to re-do the TGA. Change the direction of the court from N-S to E-W. Put in new seats and fix the bathroom and concession areas. Spend a couple million dollars on this before the start of the 15-16 season, and if the fans can rally around the team in the next couple years, break ground on a new gym in five years. If the fans don't rally around the team in that timeframe, then there's no point anyway because we don't deserve something better. manayunk53, I'd be buying what you're selling, but someone I know that has a big bank account, told me he had a check written, the plans drawn up and the contractor to do the job, and was basically told no thanks by the school. Had to go back to page 1 of this thread to find your original comment belfieldhappyhour. I still don't see anything wrong with this idea.
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Jan 28, 2016 13:47:18 GMT -5
manayunk53, I'd be buying what you're selling, but someone I know that has a big bank account, told me he had a check written, the plans drawn up and the contractor to do the job, and was basically told no thanks by the school. Had to go back to page 1 of this thread to find your original comment belfieldhappyhour. I still don't see anything wrong with this idea. I agree, there is nothing wrong with flipping the court. Just don't think it will ever happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 13:59:33 GMT -5
Dayton message board has a facilities thread. It was prompted by a survey done recently by UD to see what people's wish list should include. Here is what the survey led off with: UD ARENA IMPROVEMENTS Opened in 1969, the 46-year old UD Arena has served the university well over the years. However, to position the arena to effectively serve the UD community for the next 30 to 40 years, there is a need to make improvements to meet current codes, address deferred maintenance issues, improve technology, enhance the fan’s game-day experience and continue to serve as an important resource in supporting the financial operations of the UD athletics program. udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28790
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 14:32:39 GMT -5
Now here is Rutgers announcement for facility upgrades and a new practice facility. www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/index.ssf/2015/06/glimpse_at_the_future_first_look_at_the_new_basket.htmlMy point of posting Dayton and Rutgers was to show what we're competing against. Yet, I don't think we get a new arena announcement before 2019. The projects that are emphasized in the next 3 years would have to be directly to be linked to restoring our financial stability and enrollment figures, first. I do think funding a new facility right now would be irresponsible. It's much easier to take on the facility talk when we're winners, and producing numerous sellouts, like Dayton and Rutgers undoubtedly do. I could be wrong, but in our current situation I don't see facility talk gaining traction right now. For there to be any incentive to switch from a 3,200 capacity to a 6,500 seat gym, as has been proposed on this very thread, wouldn't there need to be some evidence that we were capable to first even sell out the 3,200 seats? If selling more than two thousand tickets to a small arena is such a impossibility to achieve lately, why would they compound this problem worse by doubling capacity? I understand big vision, but bigger capacity does not equate to increase interest. Does one sold out event per season really justify building a larger capacity, so that fans who are complacent enough to not even buy full season tickets can now come and see us play SJU/Villanova and maybe one NIT game a season or Top 25 opponent like VCU/Davidson/Dayton if we're lucky? To place the number 6500 in perspective, Princeton has 6,854 with an enrollment that's 25% bigger than ours. Rutgers uses an 8,000 seat arena with an enrollment that's 7.5 times ours. I just don't see where 6,500 number comes from. Temple has a 10k arena and 3,900 seats in McGonigle hall, but their undergraduate enrollment is also 7 times ours. Would we ever really need to support an arena more than 5k?
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 28, 2016 14:49:09 GMT -5
Speaking of the whole "... but no one comes anyway" argument, isn't there tangible evidence that people will show up to a new building regardless of the results? Not in perpetuity, but there is a bump and without that bump, there can't be retention.
(Green apples to red apples, but it took the Phillies until this season to finally get back down to the level of the last year at the Vet, when they were a better than .500 team.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 16:17:31 GMT -5
Speaking of the whole "... but no one comes anyway" argument, isn't there tangible evidence that people will show up to a new building regardless of the results? Not in perpetuity, but there is a bump and without that bump, there can't be retention. (Green apples to red apples, but it took the Phillies until this season to finally get back down to the level of the last year at the Vet, when they were a better than .500 team.) Sounds like you're saying in 2030 we could have about 2k people in a 6,500 seat arena. To borrow your analogy, the Phils contracted capacity, not expanded, when making a new facility. I mentioned Princeton. They have a much bigger gym than Gola, have an 11-4 record and are a practical lock for going to the NCAA tournament this year. Yet, their avg attendance is only 1,400, this being the fourth year in a row it's facing a 10% decline from the year prior. Of all the things potentially wrong with both Princeton's and La Salle's facilities, doubling capacity of either should be last on anybody's wishlist because it is actually counterproductive.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jan 28, 2016 16:45:25 GMT -5
Had to go back to page 1 of this thread to find your original comment belfieldhappyhour. Â I still don't see anything wrong with this idea. I agree, there is nothing wrong with flipping the court. Just don't think it will ever happen. I think it's an architectural problem. And the size should stay about the same just get much nicer and modern. We have the Palestra of needed and Well Fargo one day God willing.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Jan 28, 2016 16:52:00 GMT -5
Sounds like you're saying in 2030 we could have about 2k people in a 6,500 seat arena. To borrow your analogy, the Phils contracted capacity, not expanded, when making a new facility. (1) It doesn't matter what capacity is for the Phillies if they're adding fans w/ a new facility. (2) I've never said seating capacity is the issue or even an issue. We're on the low side of the A-10, but not outliers by any means. (I think wiki said half of the schools are under 5,500 for their arenas.)
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Post by jellybean on Jan 28, 2016 16:54:01 GMT -5
Louth is the authority on this and he knows that the floor could have been flipped. Capacity could be significantly higher if original plans went into effect. The original plans had them blowing out some walls. Maybe not now.
I have heard that Bro. Joe Burke rushed this through.
Belfieldhappyhour is probably 100% correct about that big check. I heard a donor say on the spot he would write a substantial six figure check at a meeting I attended.
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Post by durenduren on Jan 28, 2016 17:12:44 GMT -5
Belfieldhappyhour is probably 100% correct about that big check. I heard a donor say on the spot he would write a substantial six figure check at a meeting I attended. Does that include the figures after the decimal point?
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 28, 2016 17:18:19 GMT -5
Turning the court is the least desirable option, but if it's the only option, at this point, I think you have to take it and run with it.
I'm no engineer, but not sure it would be possible to blow out the wall where the bathrooms and entrances currently sit and extend it fully to where the mezzanine ends or thereabouts, but maybe it's a solution?
Funny thing would be, likely the majority of available seating would now be behind the baskets...
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Post by durenduren on Jan 28, 2016 17:26:06 GMT -5
Funny thing would be, likely the majority of available seating would now be behind the baskets... Sounds like Explorertown's wet dream.
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Post by gymrat67 on Jan 28, 2016 17:32:53 GMT -5
I think everybody's comments are great, snarky or not. But am I the only one who thinks that building a new arena would be a GIGANTIC (notice the caps) waste of money for this school right now? Why isn't there a bigger push to spend a much smaller amount of money to re-orient the TGA floor to go east-west instead of north-south and redo the bathrooms and concession stands? Is that proposal totally dead? I know a while back we discussed that it was close to happening, but apparently was turned down in the end. Is it completely off the table now? This seems (at least to me) to be the most cost-effective way to improve our facilities. Give the TGA a face lift and a 90 degree rotation this offseason, and when the team starts winning next year, maybe people will come to the games and enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back. An expensive, empty arena seems pointless to me. And I don't mean to make it sound like these changes would be free and easy to do, but this is a plan that is totally do-able and could help us for many years to come. Check out : Joseph J. Gentile Arena Retrofit ( 2014 )-- Loyola of Chicago University -- Cost: under $20 million
Solomon Cordwell Buenz & Associates Architects, Chicago :
Attachment Deleted
Halvorson & Partners, structural engineers, Chicago ; H & P designed new 5000 seat bowl structure and arcade :
Attachment Deleted
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jan 28, 2016 17:37:13 GMT -5
6,000 seat mondern arena, anything bigger, Wells Fargo Center or Palestra. At that point, just play some Big 5 games at the Palestra and maybe a nostalgic game vs. a Michigan St or some other big school that wants to play in the Palestra as a type of novelty.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 28, 2016 19:31:08 GMT -5
I think everybody's comments are great, snarky or not. But am I the only one who thinks that building a new arena would be a GIGANTIC (notice the caps) waste of money for this school right now? Why isn't there a bigger push to spend a much smaller amount of money to re-orient the TGA floor to go east-west instead of north-south and redo the bathrooms and concession stands? Is that proposal totally dead? I know a while back we discussed that it was close to happening, but apparently was turned down in the end. Is it completely off the table now? This seems (at least to me) to be the most cost-effective way to improve our facilities. Give the TGA a face lift and a 90 degree rotation this offseason, and when the team starts winning next year, maybe people will come to the games and enjoy themselves enough to keep coming back. An expensive, empty arena seems pointless to me. And I don't mean to make it sound like these changes would be free and easy to do, but this is a plan that is totally do-able and could help us for many years to come. Check out : Joseph J. Gentile Arena Retrofit ( 2014 )-- Loyola of Chicago University -- Cost: under $20 million
Solomon Cordwell Buenz & Associates Architects, Chicago :
View Attachment
Halvorson & Partners, structural engineers, Chicago ; H & P designed new 5000 seat bowl structure and arcade :
View Attachment
NOTHING would be more appropriate than something almost EXACTLY like that in the Hayman Center.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 19:33:18 GMT -5
Louth is the authority on this and he knows that the floor could have been flipped. Capacity could be significantly higher if original plans went into effect. The original plans had them blowing out some walls. Maybe not now. I have heard that Bro. Joe Burke rushed this through. Belfieldhappyhour is probably 100% correct about that big check. I heard a donor say on the spot he would write a substantial six figure check at a meeting I attended. JB, the design that Louth and a couple other alums proposed did not flip the court. It would still be going in the same direction it does now. The Olney Ave wall would have been blown out and I believe the building would have been expanded further on the parking lot side also. I believe that design would have had a capacity of approx. 6,200. Picking the current design was without a doubt the dumbest decision the BOT and Burke ever made. The 6,200 seat design would have cost the same as the current design because Louth and his partners were going to do it at cost because they were loyal alums. It absolutely boggles the mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:09:40 GMT -5
When St Joe's did a renovation, they rented the Palestra for a year. I don't see that even being an option for us ($$). Would we play at McGonigle Hall?
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jan 29, 2016 16:33:38 GMT -5
you roll that cost into the overall project investment.
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Post by manayunk53 on Jan 30, 2016 21:16:58 GMT -5
you roll that cost into the overall project investment. Or ... You kick off a "high school gym goodbye tour" and play all your home games in various high school gyms around the city. You can split the gate with the hosting school, and since this would be a big deal for each school, they would easily sell the building out. Problem solved.
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Post by sidclassof69 on Feb 3, 2016 6:33:12 GMT -5
After reading all of the above posts, I would like to give a very short opinion on our facility. Every time I see the walls behind the baskets, it makes me think of high school. Enufced
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 3, 2016 9:13:30 GMT -5
I'm sure she was just a late bloomer.
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Post by Happy Fortune on Feb 3, 2016 9:29:14 GMT -5
After reading all of the above posts, I would like to give a very short opinion on our facility. Every time I see the walls behind the baskets, it makes me think of high school. Enufced I am going to cherish this high school gym as much as possible. It makes me happy when everyone in the building hears me yelling
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