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Post by explorer88 on Feb 13, 2020 21:02:07 GMT -5
Let’s get real. The Bonnie’s are no juggernauts. Nice program that has performed better than La Salle granted. Yes their facility isn’t great but it is better than Gola.for every Bonnie’s there is a La Salle and Fordham and previously Duquesne. Now Duquesne is moving up.
Duplicating it is not easy. Schmidt is a good coach. He finds the hidden gems as you allude to. I do agree that is what La Salle has to do.
My point is we haven’t done it. Can Ash make it happen? Probably won’t happen until 2021-2022 as Jellybean mentioned. I was hoping next year but it is looking like Ash needs next year as well to work some things out.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 13, 2020 21:55:36 GMT -5
I feel like all the smartest posters here said Ash’s first year of legit consequence is when the current freshmen are seniors.
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postup
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Post by postup on Feb 13, 2020 22:34:54 GMT -5
I feel like all the smartest posters here said Ash’s first year of legit consequence is when the current freshmen are seniors. Seriously??? Tell that to Keith Dambrot at Duquesne. Seems like he didn't use that as an excuse - he just took what he had and won.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 13, 2020 22:42:58 GMT -5
In Jay Wright’s 5th year, he became a >.500 Big East coach. You would have fired him 30+ times before he got there.
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Post by 23won on Feb 14, 2020 0:23:04 GMT -5
In Jay Wright’s 5th year, he became a >.500 Big East coach. You would have fired him 30+ times before he got there. 19,15, 18, 24 and 28 were how many wins Jay at Nova in his first five years. Does that even compare to the discussion we are having here?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 14, 2020 1:09:12 GMT -5
In Jay Wright’s 5th year, he became a >.500 Big East coach. You would have fired him 30+ times before he got there. Jay made the NIT each year in his first 3 years and played in a conference with multiple ranked teams that sent an average of 6 teams to the dance in each of his first 5 years. Going .500 in the Big East is much different than going .500 in the 2- or 3-bid A10. Are you really making that comparison?
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Post by las71 on Feb 14, 2020 6:48:42 GMT -5
Surprisingly there were many Nova alums calling for Jay's head in his early years there. We look at his record and say not bad, the Nova crowd looked at his record and said how come we're not Duke. Ash has brought in one recruiting class and as a group I think they have shown the potential to be solid A10 players. Give him two more recruiting classes. I believe Ash has us on the way up. Go 'splorers!
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Post by walkon on Feb 14, 2020 7:06:41 GMT -5
Bottom line is when we are recruiting, the selling point has to be our coach. It will come down to personal relationships, and I believe Ash is the best we could ask for. You sure as hell aren’t selling kids on the facility. So give him some credit and some damn time.
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Post by 23won on Feb 14, 2020 7:42:41 GMT -5
I’m not expecting this frosh class to have 28 wins and a top 5 ranking like what Jay Wright produced.
What I would like to see is in season improvement in (1) off ball movement and shot selection, (2) getting finishes on shots 3 feet from the rim, (3) foul shooting improvement, not regression, (4) lineup management to win games this year, not 2023 and (5) preparation so opponents don’t utterly smoke you at home worse than they crushed you ten games ago on the road. These are realistic expectations a good coach can deliver on now.
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Post by vital on Feb 14, 2020 10:17:50 GMT -5
In Jay Wright’s 5th year, he became a >.500 Big East coach. You would have fired him 30+ times before he got there. A tough Big East not a 1 or 2 team conference...
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 14, 2020 10:34:22 GMT -5
Different conference, different expectations. Let's not pretend this same board would be content being a "multi-NIT bid" program over half a decade if we were Big East.
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Post by 23won on Feb 14, 2020 11:43:42 GMT -5
Different conference, different expectations. Let's not pretend this same board would be content being a "multi-NIT bid" program over half a decade if we were Big East. Stop with the faux "facts" and assumptions on Board thoughts. The Wright history is pretty awesome and here are the facts: From Wiki: "Villanova earned a post-season tournament berth in each of Wright's initial ten seasons as Villanova head coach before missing in 2011–12. The Wildcats played in the NIT in 2002, 2003, and 2004, and in 14 of 15 NCAA Tournaments since 2005." And they finished AP 19 and 3 in year 4 and 5 of Wright's Nova years. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/jay-wright-1.htmlNo one here is wishing for La Salle pro forma post-season performance within the Big East, as you say. That is a double fantasy red herring argument. What would be good is improvement in our actual conference. That is not happening now (the reverse is on an in-season and season to season basis). Those are facts. In fact, we won 8 games last year in the A10 without "Ash's guys" and have 2 wins now with Ash's 5 guys. We could eke out maybe 2 more wins if the current level of play trend continues. Progress in the A10 is doable and I think it's a reasonable expectation. Personally, I'd like to see it in 2020.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 14, 2020 18:21:37 GMT -5
Some of your expectations are beyond unreasonable, they're a joke. Your impulse reactions after a blowout loss to Richmond who is a fringe NCAA team is insane. It's also extremely difficult to run an offense without your starting PG. That's partly on Ash as he didn't really have a backup option after Traci transferred.
Getting back to my point, it's a complete joke any of you are making a comparison between Jay Wright's time at Nova to Ash's not even 2 year tenure here and as a head coach. What are you even talking about? That isn't even remotely fair, reasonable or sane comparison.
News flash, Jay Wright's first few years as a head coach were at Hofstra where he didn't win more than 12 games in his first three seasons. Ash is currently on pace to have more wins in his first two seasons than Jay did. However, that doesn't mean much as with the point with the Nova comparison.
Progress is happening. Many of the player's and team's underlying analytics have improved since the beginning of the season. They aren't going to improve in every statistical category, that simple doesn't happen.
I'm not sure when expectations change but La Salle's rebuild was at least a 4 to 5 year project. The majority KNEW THAT. If you have higher expectations than that many of us don't know what to tell you guys.
End rant.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 14, 2020 18:58:43 GMT -5
...I'm not sure when expectations change but La Salle's rebuild was a 4 to 5 year project at least... Take out the words "at least" and I pretty much agree with your post. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the team to be much improved 4 to 5 years from the start of Howard's tenure. If we're still in rebuild mode in year 6, something's wrong.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 14, 2020 19:00:54 GMT -5
...I'm not sure when expectations change but La Salle's rebuild was a 4 to 5 year project at least... Take out the words "at least" and I pretty much agree with your post. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to expect the team to be much improved 4 to 5 years from the start of Howard's tenure. If we're still in rebuild mode in year 6, something's wrong. The "at least" should come before 4 to 5 years. My mistake. It's my thought that we are continuing to build over that duration so near the end we are looking at a tournament appearance.
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Post by vital on Feb 14, 2020 23:01:41 GMT -5
Some of your expectations are beyond unreasonable, they're a joke. Your impulse reactions after a blowout loss to Richmond who is a fringe NCAA team is insane. It's also extremely difficult to run an offense without your starting PG. That's partly on Ash as he didn't really have a backup option after Traci transferred. Getting back to my point, it's a complete joke any of you are making a comparison between Jay Wright's time at Nova to Ash's not even 2 year tenure here and as a head coach. What are you even talking about? That isn't even remotely fair, reasonable or sane comparison. News flash, Jay Wright's first few years as a head coach were at Hofstra where he didn't win more than 12 games in his first three seasons. Ash is currently on pace to have more wins in his first two seasons than Jay did. However, that doesn't mean much as with the point with the Nova comparison. Progress is happening. Many of the player's and team's underlying analytics have improved since the beginning of the season. They aren't going to improve in every statistical category, that simple doesn't happen. I'm not sure when expectations change but La Salle's rebuild was at least a 4 to 5 year project. The majority KNEW THAT. If you have higher expectations than that many of us don't know what to tell you guys. End rant. Stop it Hofstra was and still not a mid major!
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Post by 23won on Feb 15, 2020 0:05:20 GMT -5
15 you make a great a great case I am sorry I expected improvement year over year or within the season Just give me a one point win over Fordham and some rum in me belly and if we can’t beat Fordham just have the lovely musical quartet play me a diddy at Gola so I know my season ticket spend was worhwhile -ok,mate Thanks!!! Thanks for resetting expectations.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 15, 2020 1:17:37 GMT -5
15 you make a great a great case I am sorry I expected improvement year over year or within the season Just give me a one point win over Fordham and some rum in me belly and if we can’t beat Fordham just have the lovely musical quartet play me a diddy at Gola so I know my season ticket spend was worhwhile -ok,mate Thanks!!! Thanks for resetting expectations. Absolutely no problem. I know you're mostly blind so let me know if you have any problems finding your way off this board.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 15, 2020 9:22:12 GMT -5
The cupcake city nonleague schedule was fool's gold. It made a lot out us get fat and happy. Whether anybody wants to use metrics or not, this team folded on Wednesday night, which usually is not the case with a Ash Howard coached team. Looking at the upcoming schedule, I think 15 wins is the ceiling fire this team...beat Fordham, UMass, GW, and St. Joes. That's an improvement over last year's record, but the league record is a regression. Looking at the conference predictions, I don't think anybody predicted 6-12.
It is my belief that the reason we face scoring droughts is because we don't drive the basketball enough, so we don't get to the foul line, so we see these 18-2 runs by opposing teams. We have to get to the foul line, particularly when shots aren't falling.
Shooters and scorers would help in the future. Jack Clark's health would help greatly as well.
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Post by 23won on Feb 15, 2020 10:12:43 GMT -5
Absolutely no problem. I know you're mostly blind so let me know if you have any problems finding your way off this board. That’s ok. I can see just fine. Keep on accepting and justifying poor performance and you can post to yourself all day long.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 15, 2020 10:41:27 GMT -5
I know I do this annually, but are there any college programs or professional teams you look at objectively and say “they cannot built sustainable success with their current infrastructure”?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 15, 2020 10:55:20 GMT -5
My expectations were improvement and building toward something with tangible results. Yeah, the league is tougher than last year, but I thought we should at lest finish 500 and not be in the PIG. 2-9 doesn't cut it. And I'm not seeing plays run for people...just lots of standing around, passing around the perimeter, and getting the 3. It looks like street ball at times. I'm not seeing a system...unless that is the system.
Initially, with this class, I thought...NIT in year 3 of Ash, NCAAs in 4. That was probably too optimistic looking at how we are playing. Maybe we bump that out and say NIT in year 4 and NCAA in 5. My concern is that, as La Salle fans, we are perpetually in the "next year will be better" mode and we keep bumping these years further out and the fan base gets discouraged...or we have to face up to the fact that maybe we just can't compete in the A10 for a variety of reasons and accept that reality.
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 15, 2020 11:49:29 GMT -5
My expectations were improvement and building toward something with tangible results. Yeah, the league is tougher than last year, but I thought we should at lest finish 500 and not be in the PIG. 2-9 doesn't cut it. And I'm not seeing plays run for people...just lots of standing around, passing around the perimeter, and getting the 3. It looks like street ball at times. I'm not seeing a system...unless that is the system. Initially, with this class, I thought...NIT in year 3 of Ash, NCAAs in 4. That was probably too optimistic looking at how we are playing. Maybe we bump that out and say NIT in year 4 and NCAA in 5. My concern is that, as La Salle fans, we are perpetually in the "next year will be better" mode and we keep bumping these years further out and the fan base gets discouraged...or we have to face up to the fact that maybe we just can't compete in the A10 for a variety of reasons and accept that reality. Agree with most of this. There is no indication at all in this program we are going to the NCAA even 3 years out is my only Objection. 5 years ago I never missed a game, went to all the functions, donated every year. I was hopeful after the 2012-2013 year G and La Salle had figured it out a little and he found a recruiting recipe that worked for the program and La Salle would improve the facility with support at its highest point. 5 years later here we are with very little talent compared to the best teams in this conference and still in a facility that is among the worst in D-1. As Glitter says, “next year will be better mode” is our mantra and I find myself slowly from fading from fandom which is sad. Ash was the right hire at the time and still may be the right hire when all is said and done but we are far away from the top of the league right now. I think most of us would settle for those indicators it is turning around but they are not there right now which has frustrated some on this board. Ash is caught in the fans Groundhog Day experience.This creates the shorter leash issue that has divided us as a fan base.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 15, 2020 12:06:55 GMT -5
The cupcake city nonleague schedule was fool's gold. It made a lot out us get fat and happy. Whether anybody wants to use metrics or not, this team folded on Wednesday night, which usually is not the case with a Ash Howard coached team. Looking at the upcoming schedule, I think 15 wins is the ceiling fire this team...beat Fordham, UMass, GW, and St. Joes. That's an improvement over last year's record, but the league record is a regression. Looking at the conference predictions, I don't think anybody predicted 6-12. It is my belief that the reason we face scoring droughts is because we don't drive the basketball enough, so we don't get to the foul line, so we see these 18-2 runs by opposing teams. We have to get to the foul line, particularly when shots aren't falling. Shooters and scorers would help in the future. Jack Clark's health would help greatly as well. The league is significantly better than last year. Most likely, the A10 going to send 6, maybe 7 teams to the NCAA tournament or NIT. Last year, the A10 only had 3 teams in Kenpoms top 100, this year we have 7. So I wouldn't get too caught up in our A10 record. We are going to probably end the season with 5 or 6 wins plus we lost 2 close games to SLU and URI so we aren't too far off. At the end of next season, we can really talk about the team's progression. We are returning a lot next season pending anyone transfers and add Clark, Moore and Gill. We can potentially add a grad transfer as well. While Deas and Phiri are solid players in the rotation I don't think they are going to be much of a loss. Most importantly, I want to see how these guys develop moving into their 2nd and 3rd seasons before I criticize Ash or the team in general. IMO, it's just too early.
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Post by 23won on Feb 15, 2020 19:11:21 GMT -5
The cupcake city nonleague schedule was fool's gold. It made a lot out us get fat and happy. Whether anybody wants to use metrics or not, this team folded on Wednesday night, which usually is not the case with a Ash Howard coached team. Looking at the upcoming schedule, I think 15 wins is the ceiling fire this team...beat Fordham, UMass, GW, and St. Joes. That's an improvement over last year's record, but the league record is a regression. Looking at the conference predictions, I don't think anybody predicted 6-12. It is my belief that the reason we face scoring droughts is because we don't drive the basketball enough, so we don't get to the foul line, so we see these 18-2 runs by opposing teams. We have to get to the foul line, particularly when shots aren't falling. Shooters and scorers would help in the future. Jack Clark's health would help greatly as well. The league is significantly better than last year. Most likely, the A10 going to send 6, maybe 7 teams to the NCAA tournament or NIT. Last year, the A10 only had 3 teams in Kenpoms top 100, this year we have 7. So I wouldn't get too caught up in our A10 record. We will get 2 , maybe 3, NCAA teams. Who gives a sh!t about NIT. Take off your beer goggles.
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Post by a10champion15 on Feb 16, 2020 11:59:13 GMT -5
The league is significantly better than last year. Most likely, the A10 going to send 6, maybe 7 teams to the NCAA tournament or NIT. Last year, the A10 only had 3 teams in Kenpoms top 100, this year we have 7. So I wouldn't get too caught up in our A10 record. We will get 2 , maybe 3, NCAA teams. Who gives a sh!t about NIT. Take off your beer goggles. For a program like Duquesne, it’s a big deal. Even Richmond, it’s a positive step seeing how they return their entire team next season.
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Post by 23won on Feb 16, 2020 12:53:45 GMT -5
Ok. Fair point. Richmond is going to be hell to deal with next year
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Post by diehardexplorer on Feb 16, 2020 16:27:23 GMT -5
anybody on here who looks down their nose at a NIT bid really needs to get a clue.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 16, 2020 18:59:38 GMT -5
anybody on here who looks down their nose at a NIT bid really needs to get a clue. I would love an NIT bid for us.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 16, 2020 19:16:18 GMT -5
" ...want to how these guys develop in their second and third seasons". IMO Jared Kimbrough has regressed in his second season. Runs the floor great, though.
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