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Post by luhoopsfan on Jun 19, 2019 10:13:56 GMT -5
Certainly would not want to make a habit of those events, but given how last year went with the California tourney, going the opposite direction is the right play for the upcoming season.
Ash wants to build a culture of winning. A tournament like that hopefully yields a championship. Regardless of the level of competition there is a mindset to winning in that kind of setting that needs to be developed. Creating the expectation that the team is going to win by implementing the coaching staff game plan carries over to playing high level opponents. It creates excitement for fans when they win and generally makes people happy. The program needs that small step first and progress from there.
The risk, of course, is that any loss becomes a Fire Ash thread
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jun 19, 2019 15:27:53 GMT -5
The risk, of course, is that any loss becomes a Fire Ash thread I predict some bad puns when they day comes.
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Post by diehardexplorer on Jun 19, 2019 17:22:17 GMT -5
Certainly would not want to make a habit of those events, but given how last year went with the California tourney, going the opposite direction is the right play for the upcoming season. Ash wants to build a culture of winning. A tournament like that hopefully yields a championship. Regardless of the level of competition there is a mindset to winning in that kind of setting that needs to be developed. Creating the expectation that the team is going to win by implementing the coaching staff game plan carries over to playing high level opponents. It creates excitement for fans when they win and generally makes people happy. The program needs that small step first and progress from there. The risk, of course, is that any loss becomes a Fire Ash thread this will be a tough tournament. winning it would be a nice accomplishment. anyone thinking la salle will be looked at as a favorite isn't paying attention. chances are, we will be matched up against either murray state or northeastern in the first round. these tournaments are usually seeded based on the previous year's rpi. guess what. la salle has the worst rpi in the field and the second worst net ranking. so you're looking at a 7 or 8 seed. murray state / northeastern will be seeded 1 and 2. i assume both will be pretty good this year. they're both consistent winning and well-coached programs.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jun 19, 2019 17:59:40 GMT -5
Playing Murray State next year is akin to the season we beat Davidson at the tournament the year Steph left early. Yes we beat Davidson, but they weren't the Davidson they had been the prior 3 seasons. Murray State is a decent program, but after tomorrow night, it's not the Murray State team that's going to have us jumping up and down after we beat them.
Anybody that's been around hear over the last 15+ years knows my scheduling philosophy. It's basically John Chaney lite. Wasn't a fan of G's scheduling, I'm not changing my philosophy now with Ash. There isn't one team in that field from a conference on par with the A10.
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Post by hykos1045 on Jun 19, 2019 23:08:24 GMT -5
Playing Murray State next year is akin to the season we beat Davidson at the tournament the year Steph left early. Yes we beat Davidson, but they weren't the Davidson they had been the prior 3 seasons. Murray State is a decent program, but after tomorrow night, it's not the Murray State team that's going to have us jumping up and down after we beat them. Anybody that's been around hear over the last 15+ years knows my scheduling philosophy. It's basically John Chaney lite. Wasn't a fan of G's scheduling, I'm not changing my philosophy now with Ash. There isn't one team in that field from a conference on par with the A10. Really? I don't care what year's A10 standard you're using, you can use Charlotte/Xavier/Temple standard if you want even though it doesn't exist anymore. You just don't talk about a team that's top 35 RPI and coming off 12 out of 13 wins as not on par with the A10 unless you're complimenting them. The A10 flamed out in the tourney, whereas Murray State advanced. And they're in it so often, I wouldn't be surprised if they are back in 2020. As for scheduling methods, playing a team like that in Florida makes a lot of sense, rather than at their place where they were 15-1 last season. They're probably not going to come to H&H either unless you can guarantee them Palestra. Our scheduling is constrained by facilities and other factors you're probably not allowing for.
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big5vet
Mop-Up Time
Posts: 102
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Post by big5vet on Jun 20, 2019 7:17:38 GMT -5
April 8, 2019 Ken Pomeroy rankings Murray St 51 Northeastern 89 Wright St 117 Drake 135 Miami OH 148 South Alabama 214 Weber St 224 La Salle 228
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jun 20, 2019 7:50:20 GMT -5
This thread that has turned into a scheduling debate, and the AD thread which drifted into fundraising has me wondering about the crossover between the two.
Obviously fundraising is critical, and will be extremely important for new facilities. Now...what encourages more fundraising and more ticket sales? I think the average fan looks at number of wins...not saying that is the right metric, but someone is more inclined to go to a game and possibly donate to the school when the team comes off a 20-win season versus a losing season.
Also, a part of this is the turning people into fans while they are students, and then retaining them as fans as young alums. This, arguably, hasn't happened. One can look at the student attendance as the season progresses to see that. Is that due to losing records and not generating enough on-campus excitement? Would "easy" non-signature wins that don't increase your tournament profile but help build some momentum right now with students and younger alums be more important in the long-term? Would winning get people to open their wallets and attend more games even if they aren't signature wins? These are questions that I hope are being discussed and debated in the athletic and development office.
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Jun 20, 2019 12:34:02 GMT -5
This thread that has turned into a scheduling debate, and the AD thread which drifted into fundraising has me wondering about the crossover between the two. Obviously fundraising is critical, and will be extremely important for new facilities. Now...what encourages more fundraising and more ticket sales? I think the average fan looks at number of wins...not saying that is the right metric, but someone is more inclined to go to a game and possibly donate to the school when the team comes off a 20-win season versus a losing season. Also, a part of this is the turning people into fans while they are students, and then retaining them as fans as young alums. This, arguably, hasn't happened. One can look at the student attendance as the season progresses to see that. Is that due to losing records and not generating enough on-campus excitement? Would "easy" non-signature wins that don't increase your tournament profile but help build some momentum right now with students and younger alums be more important in the long-term? Would winning get people to open their wallets and attend more games even if they aren't signature wins? These are questions that I hope are being discussed and debated in the athletic and development office. I'm not going to disagree with all of your points Glitter, but I will add a few things here, I think true basketball fans, if there are 1,000 of them on campus, would rather see a game against Memphis than Morgan State. Also, wins are nice, it's cool to reel off 3 or 4 consecutive seasons of 20 wins, but we will not be in at large contention playing Cupcake City, and more importantly, we won't be battle tested/prepared to compete in those games against tougher competition. Look at the record of the Rodney Green era teams vs the power conferences.... They had 1 win vs Providence, that's it.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Jun 20, 2019 13:01:19 GMT -5
agree. 20 wins against cupcakes isn't going to get us an at-large bid (but might get us NIT with a decent conference showing), but losing seasons don't generate fan excitement, ticket sales, and donations. Strategically, should the program be focusing on the former, or the latter.
It takes money to build better facilities, which in turn should help attract players, which in turn should build help build the program and make it ready to play the Memphis-like teams. Now, how does the school get money for the program - donations and ticket sales. Winning helps increase both of those things. We've had one at large bid in the last 21 years...the thing that has remained constant over that time is the facilities. Raise money to fix that, and the rest will come. I say go for wins to generate some momentum going into a fund-raising campaign. We have an aging fan-base and need to figure out a way to get some excitement going. People back winners.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Jun 20, 2019 13:04:39 GMT -5
Why I've been saying "Stack Wins." If the A10 is going to get 3 in...be at that level...a decent showing in the conference and 10 OOC wins should have La Salle near the bubble. And that is the goal.
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Post by theneumann64 on Jun 20, 2019 14:32:33 GMT -5
To me, the apt framing of this question- given where we are a program right now, is would you rather win 18 games with a soft OOC and not get into the NIT, or win 12 games playing a tougher schedule? Because I'd rather have the former. We're not Temple from 15 years ago, and we honestly have no business talking about things that strengthen our tournament resume right now. The argument is what is the better path to getting us back towards respectability, where we can have those discussions. To me, it's win more games first. Even if we set aside that tougher teams are unlikely to have any interest in playing us, I think the wins matter more right now than the level of competition.
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Post by explorerentourage on Jun 20, 2019 14:48:26 GMT -5
This isn't even a question for me. Load up on the wins and schedule maybe 1 additional Power conference game outside of the Big 5 this season. Who really thinks we are an at-large team this year? Your looking at a roster filled of mostly freshmen and sophomores that are going to be playing together for the first time.
Fan enthusiasm is critical and winning absolutely breeds it. I mean, how many times does it take playing Miami to realize we aren't on that level yet? Villanova is a barometer every year but beyond that getting blown out by the Florida's of the world doesn't do anything for the team's confidence.
Maybe in Year 3 and certainly in Year 4 when Ash has his guys fully in the program and they've played together for a little bit can we have the conversation about scheduling for the RPI (NET) and trying to become a potential at-large team. Until then, the focus ought to be building a winning culture that has evaded us for some time.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Jun 20, 2019 17:25:36 GMT -5
I think we assume that anyone that would support La Salle hoops winning a lot of games is also a major college basketball fan and would discount the record because of their take on the strength of schedule. I think 90% of folks look at the record and see W-L and assume that’s the only measure of quality. They really don’t care about all the other stuff.
If La Salle didn’t make the tourney with 20 wins they would be outraged and that can also be good.
At THIS point, I think winning as many games, regardless of opponent, is most important to generate longer term support.
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Post by 23won on Jun 21, 2019 13:57:03 GMT -5
I agree with the suggestion to stack wins and have no issue with the schedule.
We are still a young team with a year or less continuity playing together in games. Phiri played a half season last year. Spencer, Ray, Hikim, Kenney, Stone did not play a college game last year. Clark is out. Jared and Ed essentially spent a half year of Prime playing time. Carter, Miles and Pookie are gone. Beatty got some rust off and confidence back playing this year. Deas, a guy who spent a big chunk of the prior two years in the dog house, had the most continuous playing time last year.
Bottom line a very “young” team as far as playing time together.
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Post by stlexplorer on Jun 21, 2019 16:31:24 GMT -5
Win games. win games. Win games.
For every person that mocks a soft 17-18 win season hopefully we turn 3 people/students into excited Explorer basketball fans
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Post by 23won on Jun 21, 2019 22:11:05 GMT -5
18 wins works. As they say in golf, there’s no video on the scorecard. I am a La Salle optimist but having disclaimed that I think we will exceed 18. I’d feel better with Clark on board but I think Ash will maximize wins the best he can, whatever that number may be. Fight on!
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Post by sweat83 on Jun 22, 2019 6:21:03 GMT -5
I'm intrigued to see what Spencer brings to the court. 3 years removed from being a highly recruited HS baller, never really found his game at Clemson. Due in part to back issues. Can we expect 16 pts, 6 rebounds and 5 assists ave from him? Or is that a reach? Looking for some court leadership from him as well.
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Post by vital on Jun 22, 2019 12:19:47 GMT -5
I'm intrigued to see what Spencer brings to the court. 3 years removed from being a highly recruited HS baller, never really found his game at Clemson. Due in part to back issues. Can we expect 16 pts, 6 rebounds and 5 assists ave from him? Or is that a reach? Looking for some court leadership from him as well. A reach...realistically 6pts 5rebs 4asst 18mins
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Post by calsufan on Jun 22, 2019 12:35:43 GMT -5
I agree with the suggestion to stack wins and have no issue with the schedule. We are still a young team with a year or less continuity playing together in games. Phiri played a half season last year. Spencer, Ray, Hikim, Kenney, Stone did not play a college game last year. Clark is out. Jared and Ed essentially spent a half year of Prime playing time. Carter, Miles and Pookie are gone. Beatty got some rust off and confidence back playing this year. Deas, a guy who spent a big chunk of the prior two years in the dog house, had the most continuous playing time last year. Bottom line a very “young” team as far as playing time together. 18 wins is probably 4 to 6 wins more than we should expect from a team that has a ton of new or limited experience players.
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Post by jellybean on Jun 23, 2019 10:15:15 GMT -5
I asked "Uncle Johnnie" if La Salle was in this Mid Major tournament last season how many teams would we be favored in a neutral court game. He said maybe one would be a toss up or La Salle by 1 (Weber State).
Based on returning minutes and points, La Salle appears to be seventh best. Weber State again would most likely be 8th. It's going to be very tight at the top with #1 being Wright State and then throw a blanket over Northeastern, Miami (OH) and South Alabama for #2. Murray State and Drake in the next tier.
But it's still early.
I love this tournament just like the Mountain West Challenge. It's gotten extremely difficult to schedule like Temple under JC. In today's landscape, I think we need to obviously try for a game or two against a P5 but we will probably be served well by playing good HMM's. Always thought that the MAC should be "explored".
Finally on scheduling. I spoke to Bill Bradshaw about this. He said that he has reached out to at least two Blue Bloods. They have no interest playing us at this time. (Why should they?). Bottom line is they will talk "once we get good." So that means building a program that is CONSISTENT. I'm all for building winning records even if we have to start out now.
This is not a cupcake tournament. This is a good measuring stick for Ashley and his program in it's second year.
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