MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 11:04:10 GMT -5
(1) Neither of us said anyone left early versus graduating, although I'm not sure why that difference affects the remaining players.
(2) Calling for the head is calling for a firing by people without the ability to fire, no?
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Post by a10champion15 on Mar 22, 2019 11:08:12 GMT -5
So at what point is Phil taking this 'woe is me' thing too far? "It cut out of my heart. It irreparably harmed my family..." Talked to a ton of Philly basketball people about this yesterday. His reaction to this event is upsetting to people who really like Phil. IMO SJU did it to themselves. If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Very curious to see how this all plays out for them. I really think they need to go after someone pretty big.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 11:15:48 GMT -5
Not dug in. Just relying more on 7 year trends that show a consistent record than an apples to oranges comparison. How many .515 MAAC level coaches have moved up to the A10 and gone dancing quickly? The MAAC and A10 are pretty different. If you think he’s special, explain why. I actually don’t have a dog in the fight but you may. No dog either (I'd never heard of him until he went to Siena), I just think your baseline is all wrong. He was .515 at Mt. St. Mary's, but focusing on that ignores that he won double digits 5 out of 6 years in a conference that, over those six years, never had a team with single digit overall losses. Its a miserable conference where >.500 overall isn't mediocre, its relative-terms really solid. He moved up to Siena (8-24, 4-14) and got them to 17-16, 11-7 in one season. Like I said before, that's objectively good unless you have reason to not be objective. If Howard got us to 22 wins last year and someone tried to say "well, lets check the roster", are you giving them a minute? Bigger picture, we're a conference where you need to find the next good young coach before someone above you does. Those are the kinds of hires that cause the big spikes and can set off longer term success when that coach moves up. If St. Josephs of PA hired a guy like Christian, I'd say "gosh dammit" because its the sort of profile I think can have a lot of success.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 11:16:57 GMT -5
If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Is there a proper way to let go of a guy who is going to compare his firing to his own death?
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 22, 2019 11:22:17 GMT -5
(1) Neither of us said anyone left early versus graduating, although I'm not sure why that difference affects the remaining players. (2) Calling for the head is calling for a firing by people without the ability to fire, no? Reading comprehension obviously isn't your strong suit "their best player leave early for the NBA " explorertown.proboards.com/post/98684/threadWhen you lose your best player who is an NBA talent that you are planning to have for one more year, you don't think that affects the remaining players and the coach's record? That means that very late in the year he now has an open scholarship as opposed to recruiting earlier to fill the spot.
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Post by 23won on Mar 22, 2019 11:25:28 GMT -5
Was he fired with years left on his contract (where Joes has to pay severance) or not re-upped? I doubt they could fire him for cause and probably would have said that if that were the case.
I have not listened to radio on this or read too much besides the posts here. All I recall from a quick google search is that a multi-year extension on two remaining contract years was reached in like '15. That would mean he probably had a or two left on the deal. I think he as making around 750K so alumni that matter passed the hat and raised 750K - 1.5M to oust him. With no AD buddy to defend him, he was vulnerable but he didn't see it that way.
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Post by a10champion15 on Mar 22, 2019 11:28:38 GMT -5
If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Is there a proper way to let go of a guy who is going to compare his firing to his own death? Yea 100%
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Post by durenduren on Mar 22, 2019 11:30:22 GMT -5
If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Is there a proper way to let go of a guy who is going to compare his firing to his own death? Bingo. I could have been convinced until Phil it became clear that Phil couldn't stop talking. He's not doing himself any favors.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Mar 22, 2019 11:41:32 GMT -5
I feel like there is a generational divide on this.
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Post by hoopsguest on Mar 22, 2019 11:42:01 GMT -5
I think what might be tough for Phil is that his oldest son for sure and maybe his daughter are SJU grads (his other son Jimmy played D3). So for him and his kids when they look at their diploma or think of college, their fondness is mixed with the sadness of their father being let go. And that might be pushing this wound for him. Not taking sides here just explaining it.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 11:43:08 GMT -5
I think both sides look bad here and I couldn't be happier. 10 out of 10.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Mar 22, 2019 11:43:46 GMT -5
His fondness of the school shouldn’t be affected by their decision to hire another basketball coach.
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Post by a10champion15 on Mar 22, 2019 11:50:17 GMT -5
Is there a proper way to let go of a guy who is going to compare his firing to his own death? Bingo. I could have been convinced until Phil it became clear that Phil couldn't stop talking. He's not doing himself any favors. That's Phil though. He never really knows when to shut up. Frankly, it's annoying. SJU alumni are being just as annoying about it too. Like I said before, I don't think it really hurts him too much seeing the narrative right now. Ready for this to be done with for both SJU and Phil. If I were them I make the best possible hire as quickly as possible.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 11:50:55 GMT -5
"I don't agree with the AD's decision but St. Joseph's of PA will always hold a place in my heart ..."
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Post by durenduren on Mar 22, 2019 11:51:15 GMT -5
His fondness of the school shouldn’t be affected by their decision to hire another basketball coach. We're watching Phil choose a path of burned bridges that we might be talking about years from now. He'll blame them, and they'll blame what Phil said. That 'feel good moment' to celebrate his tenure may never happen because it's all being aired out in such a crappy fashion. I approve, though it's pretty sad to watch. I just can't stop watching. I expected more out of Phil, honestly. He knows how to work the media in a savvy manner, but instead he's using it to screw SJU.
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Post by a10champion15 on Mar 22, 2019 11:56:25 GMT -5
His fondness of the school shouldn’t be affected by their decision to hire another basketball coach. We're watching Phil choose a path of burned bridges that we might be talking about years from now. He'll blame them, and they'll blame what Phil said. That 'feel good moment' to celebrate his tenure may never happen because it's all being aired out in such a crappy fashion. I approve, though it's pretty sad to watch. I just can't stop watching. I expected more out of Phil, honestly. He knows how to work the media in a savvy manner, but instead he's using it to screw SJU. THIS. Do we care that he's screwing SJU? Nope, not even a little.
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Post by SICguy84 on Mar 22, 2019 11:57:32 GMT -5
I think both sides look bad here and I couldn't be happier. 10 out of 10.
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Post by calsufan on Mar 22, 2019 11:57:53 GMT -5
Talked to a ton of Philly basketball people about this yesterday. His reaction to this event is upsetting to people who really like Phil. IMO SJU did it to themselves. If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Very curious to see how this all plays out for them. I really think they need to go after someone pretty big. I don't think this one is on SJU of PA admin. It's clear from his interviews that Phil is butt hurt. We all would be, but there's a smart way to do it and then there's opening your yap and making statements like "irreparably harmed my family" and the attending my own funeral line. You shut up, you act gracious and you look for the next job even though you're pissed. He's not. He's being the diva that he's always been. Great coach, but an arrogant person IMHO.
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Post by calsufan on Mar 22, 2019 11:58:41 GMT -5
We're watching Phil choose a path of burned bridges that we might be talking about years from now. He'll blame them, and they'll blame what Phil said. That 'feel good moment' to celebrate his tenure may never happen because it's all being aired out in such a crappy fashion. I approve, though it's pretty sad to watch. I just can't stop watching. I expected more out of Phil, honestly. He knows how to work the media in a savvy manner, but instead he's using it to screw SJU. THIS. Do we care that he's screwing SJU? Nope, not even a little. This we definitely can agree upon.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 12:03:26 GMT -5
I think both sides look bad here and I couldn't be happier. 10 out of 10. Someone who's good at photoshopping make that Todd O'Brien instead of Colbert.
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Post by blueandgold on Mar 22, 2019 12:11:26 GMT -5
Someone who's good at photoshopping make that Todd O'Brien instead of Colbert. For real. We didn't expect Phil to react this way to getting fired unceremoniously? Todd O'Brien: "After calling me a few choice words, he informed me that he would make some calls so that I would be dropped from my summer class and would no longer graduate. He also said that he was going to sue me. When he asked if I still planned on leaving, I was at a loss for words. He calmed down a bit and said we should think this over then meet again in a few days." "Relieved that Mr. DiJulia had taken the news well, I went to Coach Martelli's office. I told him that my mind had not changed, and that I planned on enrolling in grad school elsewhere. I recall his words vividly: 'Regardless of what the rule is I'll never release you. If you're not playing basketball at St. Joe's next year, you won't be playing anywhere.'"
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Post by a10champion15 on Mar 22, 2019 12:11:33 GMT -5
IMO SJU did it to themselves. If SJU handled it properly than none of this happens. The guy was looking to go out on somewhat his own terms and find another job. Now that the narrative is that SJU did him wrong he can say whatever he wants without it really risking another opportunity. Very curious to see how this all plays out for them. I really think they need to go after someone pretty big. I don't think this one is on SJU of PA admin. It's clear from his interviews that Phil is butt hurt. We all would be, but there's a smart way to do it and then there's opening your yap and making statements like "irreparably harmed my family" and the attending my own funeral line. You shut up, you act gracious and you look for the next job even though your pissed. He's not. He's being the diva that he's always been. Great coach, but an arrogant person IMHO. The way he is acting at this point isn't necessarily on the admin. However, just knowing him a little from a personal perspective and as an opposing fan you really have to provoke him to get this type of backlash. Without rehashing the entire situation from beginning to end, overall, SJU administration was very harsh, calculated and disrespectful with dismissing him and he isn't happy about it. Let them duke it out. In the end, it's just hurting their program. Phil gonna get another job whether that's as a HC or assistant. SJU already lost two recruits, they are gonna lose players and set their program back at least a couple of years no matter who they hire.
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Post by SICguy84 on Mar 22, 2019 12:16:55 GMT -5
In the end, it's just hurting their program. Phil gonna get another job whether that's as a HC or assistant. SJU already lost two recruits, they are gonna lose players and set their program back at least a couple of years no matter who they hire. Right. Just as Ash is making progress and the perennial arena question is being addressed. It is going to be a humbling experience for their fans and I think that's a good thing considering their thoughts/attitudes toward our school and program over the last 20 years.
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Post by durenduren on Mar 22, 2019 12:19:19 GMT -5
The admin made a misstep in their statement, opening the door to this possibility. Had they included some lines about Phil, as stupid as it is, the optics of the scenario would have been changed, and he probably wouldn't have believed he had the moral high-ground. Still, he'd been butthurt, regardless.
So out of Jay and G and Fran and the old gang (sure, you too Bruiser) or any of the other folks Phil's been bragging about (Coach K, Gino), someone's had to advised him to disconnect his phone and stop making media appearances right?
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 12:22:06 GMT -5
I get the same vibe from Coach K and Gino.
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Post by durenduren on Mar 22, 2019 12:23:02 GMT -5
This whole thing in a nutshell: Thanks, blueandgold. It's very timely and an instant-classic.
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Post by blueandgold on Mar 22, 2019 12:37:27 GMT -5
This whole thing in a nutshell: Thanks, blueandgold . It's very timely and an instant-classic. I'd say the past week has been the best week of the season for Explorer fans, and our team wasn't even on the floor.
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Post by durenduren on Mar 22, 2019 12:41:59 GMT -5
I'd say the past week has been the best week of the season for Explorer fans, and our team wasn't even on the floor. ...probably part of the reason why it was so good.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Mar 22, 2019 13:12:21 GMT -5
The admin made a misstep in their statement, opening the door to this possibility. Had they included some lines about Phil, as stupid as it is, the optics of the scenario would have been changed, and he probably wouldn't have believed he had the moral high-ground. Still, he'd been butthurt, regardless. Agree with this. The admin's job in this scenario wasn't just to replace their basketball coach, but to understand the impact of the manner in which it was done on the fans, the former players, the recruits, the local community, etc. They miscalculated. As a result, within a week their 2 recruits have reopened their recruiting, their administration is under fire from former players and parents of current players, and it turned into a bit of a shit-show. Contrast that with last year at 20th and Olney in terms of how to handle it and it is a world of difference. That shows, quite frankly, Bradshaw's experience versus Bodensteiner. There are ways to do this in a fashion where everyone saves face. That didn't happen, and that's on the AD for miscalculating the broader impact and how he would react. His persona is very public, so not being able to see how he would react is Bodensteiner being a bit clueless as an administrator. It wouldn't surprise me if she ends up with a birdhouse on her head in a couple of years.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Mar 22, 2019 13:16:54 GMT -5
I just read their board and you might be surprised just how much support the AD is getting. Near universal.
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