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Post by jellybean on Feb 1, 2018 6:46:57 GMT -5
In his defense, Pookie was 1-5 with two. Pookie also had a bad game but Amar disappears far more than Pookie does. In any event, not enough dependable players in the program. BJ is the only one we can count on game to game. What about Deas, Phiri and Washington too? Throw in the coachtoo. I guess he didn't see how St. Bonnies got back into the game two weeks ago. Yet with all that happened on and off the court your first post was to single out Stukes only. Amazing.
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Post by 23won on Feb 1, 2018 6:51:18 GMT -5
LUHoops, good post.
Seeing a 1-6 Conference head to head record for dr G versus McKillop underscores a big coaching deficiency, since you have Home Court advantages that should drive at least .500 outcomes. We’ve had equal or better talent in all but one of those years (the year where Yvgen had his career night) and a painful post S16 year tourney exit to DU where we had the game in hand with a +20 point lead.
I would like a system guy. I would love a guy that can coach. Someone who can make adjustments in game and within season. Both are out there and there are a number who hit the sweet spot on both categories. We need to just start fresh and spend some money. The BOT needs to be decisive before we become completely irrelevant as a program. Our students think we are irrelevant and the hard core alums (God bless them) are getting up there in age. We deserve better than what our BOT and leadership are dishing out and I am tired of the excuses of the G contract as the culprit. Work with what you have and make it better.
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 1, 2018 7:26:37 GMT -5
Pookie also had a bad game but Amar disappears far more than Pookie does. In any event, not enough dependable players in the program. BJ is the only one we can count on game to game. What about Deas, Phiri and Washington too? Throw in the coachtoo. I guess he didn't see how St. Bonnies got back into the game two weeks ago. Yet with all that happened on and off the court your first post was to single out Stukes only. Amazing. Those too. I am not saying the others are not at fault. My problem with Stukes is he has the ball in his hands so much and he doesn’t score, he doesn’t make players around him better and he is a 5th year player. Phiri and Deas are second year players. Washington I never liked his game. My original point was Stukes is a bottom half A-10 point guard which he proves again and again. We need our 5th year point guard with the ball in his hands so much to be better. I agree a lot of players need to be better but 2nd year players have a longer rope for me.
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Post by explorerman on Feb 1, 2018 8:03:30 GMT -5
Make no mistake this team has the on court talent... The La Salle teams the last couple of seasons have had the talent..
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Post by mookie on Feb 1, 2018 9:26:05 GMT -5
I'll be the first to admit I'm extremely hard on Stukes for many of the reasons that explorer88 just outlined (high usage, low scoring, 5th year senior, etc). But I will also say that Stukes is a polarizing player and his real value is somewhere in between. He obviously has talent and weaknesses. This loss, and many others cannot be pinned on him. Last night's game, imo, is another example of why we need to utilize the bench more. We are not Duke or Kentucky...our players will have glaring weaknesses and that's why it becomes essential that we create a brand and/or identity. The team should be playing defense with unmatched intensity. It's unrealistic to believe a kid can with 100% intensity on both ends for 35-40 mpg! That is why the bench is needed to play more. When players are not able to provide that offensive impact, we should be able to rely on them to play intense "in your face" defense for at least 20-25mpg. Rotate them, especially the guards, in and out. People rave about Stukes' ability to play defense, and to a lesser extent Phiri. People believe Moultrie can provide the offensive spark (he's proven that in spurts). Shuler has been able to provide one or the other at different times. Use your bench! Allow your players to develop! Give the team and the players roles! Again, Phiri is playing 30mpg after playing 6mpg last year! Explain to me HOW a player is ready to make that kind of a jump YoY, especially when this team really has no identity and can't fall back on 1 or 2 core principles? If the team does have these core principles, it's not showing and has really NEVER shown under G.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 1, 2018 9:31:15 GMT -5
At this point in the season, I'm just riding it out waiting to see what the AD and the administration do after the season is over. We will have a losing record...again. We will have underachieved with the talent level...again. More than likely, we will be one and done in the tourney...nm.
G is a nice guy, a good recruiter and a great representative for the school, but he's not a good bench coach. The team is weak defensively and their offensive game is pretty offensive. It's time for a change. I just want to know if Bradshaw will pull the trigger and if he does, will he hire an up and comer or a retread? We'll know in a about 6 weeks.
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Post by blueandgold on Feb 1, 2018 9:52:19 GMT -5
At this point in the season, I'm just riding it out waiting to see what the AD and the administration do after the season is over. We will have a losing record...again. We will have underachieved with the talent level...again. More than likely, we will be one and done in the tourney...nm. G is a nice guy, a good recruiter and a great representative for the school, but he's not a good bench coach. The team is weak defensively and their offensive game is pretty offensive. It's time for a change. I just want to know if Bradshaw will pull the trigger and if he does, will he hire an up and comer or a retread? We'll know in a about 6 weeks. The only part of this that I question is being one and one in the tourney. I mean, if we play in the 11-14 round...
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Post by calsufan on Feb 1, 2018 10:24:08 GMT -5
At this point in the season, I'm just riding it out waiting to see what the AD and the administration do after the season is over. We will have a losing record...again. We will have underachieved with the talent level...again. More than likely, we will be one and done in the tourney...nm. G is a nice guy, a good recruiter and a great representative for the school, but he's not a good bench coach. The team is weak defensively and their offensive game is pretty offensive. It's time for a change. I just want to know if Bradshaw will pull the trigger and if he does, will he hire an up and comer or a retread? We'll know in a about 6 weeks. The only part of this that I question is being one and one in the tourney. I mean, if we play in the 11-14 round... I agree. I thought about that and there's a better than even chance we could win that, but I was at the Barclay Center when G's team gave up a lead cinch pipe 20 point lead to Davidson, so anything is possible.
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Post by blueandgold on Feb 1, 2018 11:12:51 GMT -5
The only part of this that I question is being one and one in the tourney. I mean, if we play in the 11-14 round... I agree. I thought about that and there's a better than even chance we could win that, but I was at the Barclay Center when G's team gave up a lead cinch pipe 20 point lead to Davidson, so anything is possible. Me too. Will that end up ranking as the worst loss of G's tenure here?
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 1, 2018 11:58:39 GMT -5
I agree. I thought about that and there's a better than even chance we could win that, but I was at the Barclay Center when G's team gave up a lead cinch pipe 20 point lead to Davidson, so anything is possible. Me too. Will that end up ranking as the worst loss of G's tenure here? It caused me to declare that the team choked. However, the worst loss is undoubtedly the 06 Fordham loss. We make the A10 final with that, as Xavier couldn't match up with Smith and Thomas. At the very least, we make the NIT with that win.
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ukiedoug
Mop-Up Time
Posts: 60
Likes: 77
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Post by ukiedoug on Feb 1, 2018 13:08:05 GMT -5
Any reason why Dajour Joseph hasn't been worked into the rotation. 0 minutes last night. 2 minutes over the last 7 games. Unless there is some type of injury or disciplinary reason, now is the time to get DJ some development with the hopes of him contributing on the wing at the 2 or 3 next season. Especially with Jack Clark likely out next season. Good to see Moultrie starting to get some minutes. Next up DJ.
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Post by mookie on Feb 1, 2018 14:14:51 GMT -5
Any reason why Dajour Joseph hasn't been worked into the rotation. 0 minutes last night. 2 minutes over the last 7 games. Unless there is some type of injury or disciplinary reason, now is the time to get DJ some development with the hopes of him contributing on the wing at the 2 or 3 next season. Especially with Jack Clark likely out next season. Good to see Moultrie starting to get some minutes. Next up DJ. This is typical G. Again, look at Phiri...played 6mpg as a fresh and now 30+ as a soph. Would've benefitted greatly from playing 10-15mpg as a fresh. He doesn't do well in developing players with in-game experience.
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Post by 23won on Feb 1, 2018 16:52:37 GMT -5
Joseph ? Not sure why G seeks guys like DJ out of Florida with no connection to the area or school when there are better candidates locally who he passes on that could contribute like Daly and Brockington
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Post by cjprof on Feb 1, 2018 18:28:54 GMT -5
Joseph ? Not sure why G seeks guys like DJ out of Florida with no connection to the area or school when there are better candidates locally who he passes on that could contribute like Daly and Brockington I always thought that G sought players from afar because they “fit” into his system. Obviously that is not the case. LOL
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Post by hoopsguest on Feb 1, 2018 23:45:04 GMT -5
Keep in mind each kid is different, that some kids 1) want to get away b) need to get away. This goes for not chasing kids locally who fit the above, but also chasing kids who are not local who fit the above. Also, sometimes there are connections in those areas we might not be aware of. Also as far Daly, I saw him play in person earlier this year. Not convinced he would help. Not a great ballhandler. Average defender. Spot up shooters in the A-10 who do little else, how valuable are they? Haven't seen Brockington so won't comment there. It also looks from the surface, that maybe Joseph should play more but if you aren't in practice everyday, you don't know how well the kid picks up concepts. Do they get totally lost defensively? Do they not remember sets and get lost? Sometimes kids need that year. Also, as far as redshirts, a lot of coaches are shy to use them nowadays because after 3 seasons of play, the kid has 4 academic years and if they graduated on time, can now grad transfer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 1:07:09 GMT -5
You guys seem to overemphasize skilled recruits. First of all, just have to accept that guys like Duren/Galloway aren't available year in and out. We ultimately lucked out with that combination and that both of them wanted to be local. When you, out of frustration, say that G's recruits don't usually pan out as expected, remember he's taking on numerous opportunities for good players whom he thinks have more upside but this strategy involves risk. Also, once the team had all the chips, players that were more one-time skills rather than multiple threats, could thrive under the system of 4 guards, quick subs and fast paced tempo. The last two years, G looks down the bench and the options for plugging certain bench players into 10-20 min sub roles, with the exception of Deas and Shuler, really isn't developed as you point out, so his hand is forced to play only 7 or 8 deep. Well, February is too late to be creating that extra option, but our roster is built that way and so be it. I do think it is absurd that Henry isn't here now. He wasn't the answer to our lack of defense either, because he didn't play the roles he was assigned... but assume G could be using the one more scoring veteran, that could have spelled players in foul trouble, and created opportunities for other guys to shoot threes while he helps our rotation of Deas/Phiri/Joseph develop into more spread out (somewhat fewer minutes, as sophs) well defined roles.
Interesting also with all the conf talk and being 1-6 to Davidson, would anyone give G credit for being competitive with UMass and St Joes over his career, or is that not really a big deal anymore as it was in 2004 when G was signed to three years and got us our first winning season in over two decades?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 2, 2018 6:24:30 GMT -5
Interesting also with all the conf talk and being 1-6 to Davidson, would anyone give G credit for being competitive with UMass and St Joes over his career, or is that not really a big deal anymore as it was in 2004 when G was signed to three years and got us our first winning season in over two decades? First off, two decades? Secondly, G is (and I did this quickly but I think it is right) 12-12 against UMASS and 7-11 against St. Joe's in his career. Competitive, sure. Successful, not really.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 2, 2018 6:49:57 GMT -5
Not copying 88's whole quote but I find it interesting how he spins it so he says he gives 2nd year players " a lot of rope" to deflect from their performance in a game yet says that Stukes is "-20 for his career" which includes his Fr year where he was a part-time starter and his SO year which was a shit show created by the coach. Personally I don't care if you are a FR, SO, JR or SR. You have a bad game you get singled out for it whatever class you are in that year. But to each his own.
Mookie says that people say that Stukes is an outstanding defender. I don't recall many if any posters saying that certainly not me. The phrase "outstanding defender" is not in many La Salle conversations. I think you have to go back to Sam Mills and D J Peterson days. Stukes is the best of our lot. BTW, Moultrie was beyond terrible defensively in the Davidson game despite his steal. Good thing he can shoot.
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Post by explorer88 on Feb 2, 2018 7:31:25 GMT -5
JB, you don’t think a senior should should perform more consistently than a freshman or sophomore?
We can all have our opinions and not see eye to eye. Stukes is a bottom half A-10 point guard. No one wants to take that comment on because it can’t be challenged. There are so many others any reasonable and objective basketball observer would rather have than Stukes in this conference.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 2, 2018 8:22:28 GMT -5
JB, you don’t think a senior should should perform more consistently than a freshman or sophomore? We can all have our opinions and not see eye to eye. Stukes is a bottom half A-10 point guard. No one wants to take that comment on because it can’t be challenged. There are so many others any reasonable and objective basketball observer would rather have than Stukes in this conference. Yes, seniors not one senior (add Pookie to the mix). Stukes has a ROLE on this team. As I have mentioned many many times he is the FIFTH offensive option on this team. In a previous thread I outlined the individual stats for time with the ball( % usage), number of shots and points scored for both the season and the league. It is clear that you want the ball in the hands of your best shooters ( questionable who that is on our team) and best scorers. If you look at the stats that is exactly in my opioion what is being done. Then you add that your FIFTH option is averaging 8.4 (4th on team) and 10.4 (4th on the team) in A10. I have never said he is a great, average or lousy player.(Funny after my first post I was immediately accused of having a "man crush" for simply defending him.) I pointed out his role and contribution to the team. Some games are outstanding (funny he never gets praise and in fact was dissed by saying the opponent was "disinterested".) and maybe too many this year where he didn't score enough. I'll leave that to you where he ranks since that seems to be a big deal to you.This team has a lousy record and many holes. I think there is plenty of areas to criticize. I just think a little fairness and balance not constant dumping on him would be nice. Funny he gets criticized for not scoring enough during his HS career he was never known as a scorer and was known as a terrible shooter. The biggest disservice to him was G and Rothstein saying he was the next Machado from Iona. 88 always uses the cliche " he doesn't make players around him better." My question is how do you measure that on this team and in this "system"? How many PG's in D-1 MBB make those around him better? Not many out of 320 teams. I'm done. I tried to explain his role and show how he fits. People believe what they want. I give up the Earth is flat. I will stand and applaud him on his Senior Day and will be happy that he was able to play to the best of his ability at a major D-1 school for four years. Model citizen and student. Probably is the top 12 in school history for assists passing Greg Webster's and Jermaine Thomas'. Others will say he wasn't an A10 player. Wasn't a top half PG in the A10. Say that "I wouldn't have recruited him." That's their prerogative. It's not mine.
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Post by broderickpresident on Feb 2, 2018 9:18:40 GMT -5
Interesting also with all the conf talk and being 1-6 to Davidson, would anyone give G credit for being competitive with UMass and St Joes over his career, or is that not really a big deal anymore as it was in 2004 when G was signed to three years and got us our first winning season in over two decades? First off, two decades? Secondly, G is (and I did this quickly but I think it is right) 12-12 against UMASS and 7-11 against St. Joe's in his career. Competitive, sure. Successful, not really. Also, being competitive with UMass and SJUPA says more about the fall of those programs than it does the rise of LSU.
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Post by calsufan on Feb 2, 2018 10:09:44 GMT -5
First off, two decades? Secondly, G is (and I did this quickly but I think it is right) 12-12 against UMASS and 7-11 against St. Joe's in his career. Competitive, sure. Successful, not really. Also, being competitive with UMass and SJUPA says more about the fall of those programs than it does the rise of LSU. I thought the same thing when I read the post from Hykos1045's this morning. UMass has been pretty bad and has had lousy coaches (Ratface Lappas and Kellogg) as well as a mediocre coach (Flint). I wouldn't go hanging my hat on playing .500 ball against them. And having a 39% winning percentage against St. Schmoe's is certainly nothing to crow about.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Feb 2, 2018 12:08:54 GMT -5
The frustration is now real. Only a matter of time until some senior members of the alumni base nearly come to fisticuffs in the stands debating the merits of the team and coach again. Only then will we know the end is near
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Post by calsufan on Feb 2, 2018 13:01:24 GMT -5
The frustration is now real. Only a matter of time until some senior members of the alumni base nearly come to fisticuffs in the stands debating the merits of the team and coach again. Only then will we know the end is near
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 2, 2018 14:30:44 GMT -5
Davidson vs. La Salle = McKillop (B.A. History) vs. Dr. G (doctorate degree).
Winner by pin, knockout, default, or whatever = Mckillop. un-lol
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Post by mookie on Feb 2, 2018 19:46:20 GMT -5
Not copying 88's whole quote but I find it interesting how he spins it so he says he gives 2nd year players " a lot of rope" to deflect from their performance in a game yet says that Stukes is "-20 for his career" which includes his Fr year where he was a part-time starter and his SO year which was a shit show created by the coach. Personally I don't care if you are a FR, SO, JR or SR. You have a bad game you get singled out for it whatever class you are in that year. But to each his own. Mookie says that people say that Stukes is an outstanding defender. I don't recall many if any posters saying that certainly not me. The phrase "outstanding defender" is not in many La Salle conversations. I think you have to go back to Sam Mills and D J Peterson days. Stukes is the best of our lot. BTW, Moultrie was beyond terrible defensively in the Davidson game despite his steal. Good thing he can shoot. Sorry, I don’t think I ever said “outstanding defender”. I said people rave about his defense. Why did I say that? Because there’s been quite a few people here who have said anywhere between he’s a good denfender to he’s our best defender. Your post says he’s the best of our lot. That’s not saying much though since so many time times the opposing team shoots at a high clip or someone has a career night against us. Nobody said Moultrie is a good defensive player but YES, at least he can score shoot which helps offset that deficiency. If you read my post, you would’ve noticed I didn’t attack Stukes. I mentioned accountability and utilizing the bench. I spoke about giving all players, not just Stukes, the opportunity to have roles and to play with more intensity over shorter periods so that they can stay fresh and wear down the opposing team. You can’t utilize the bench if most players are playing 35 mpg.
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Post by jellybean on Feb 2, 2018 20:44:25 GMT -5
Sorry I read your post and indeed you did not say "outstanding." Next time I will take the time to quote you exactly.
Yes I did intend to paint the picture of the best of a weak group. It is not saying much about the current state of defense. I think we are in agreement right?
I should have started a new paragraph with regard to Moultrie and his defense. Yes I might be the first to say his defense is terrible.
I commented only on what you said about other people's opinion of his defensive contribution. I did not wish to get into an argument with regard to anything else related to Stukes.
As for your comment "about giving all players, not just Stukes, the opportunity to have roles...etc etc." First Stukes is the PG. I do not think Shuler or Moultrie are as good as him in that role. Shuler can give you serviceable minutes but not for any decent stretch. In fact if you look at it closely Moultrie has basically taken Shuler's minutes, Shuler has not gotten the job done. G gave him a chance but sometime around the trip to Northern Ireland or start of the A10, he started to use Molutrie in that role BECAUSE he produced.So much for blind loyalty to seniors. I have no idea why G took so long but he sees these kids every day and must have had his reasons?
Now if you want to say we need to utilize the bench to press and trap more I am with you. In fact Scooter Vertino said on the broadcast that "La Salle doesn't make the opponent uncomfortable". Again, something i have been saying for years.
Interesting trend while I'm at it. Funny that since Tony Washington hasn't gotten into foul trouble, Miles Brookins has gotten less playing time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:38:24 GMT -5
All of this is true except my two decades comment which was hyperbolic. My hyperole gets pointed out.
But the guy who heard some guy hear some guy hear some guy say we should go D3 gets his own thread and it goes on for 6 pages, before moderation steps in with a reclassification of what may have happened at the alleged secret meeting of faculty. I bemoan it, but I obviously don't hate it because I keep setting myself up for more of it by making these comments.
And when jellybean and mookie seem to be arguing here regarding the defense skillset of Stukes, it's just a matter of semantics. I knew what jellybean meant and it was not a botched quote at all, just a slight misread or misunderstanding of jellybean's paraphrase, is all that was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 22:43:45 GMT -5
First off, two decades? Secondly, G is (and I did this quickly but I think it is right) 12-12 against UMASS and 7-11 against St. Joe's in his career. Competitive, sure. Successful, not really. Also, being competitive with UMass and SJUPA says more about the fall of those programs than it does the rise of LSU. I admit that is true
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Post by mookie on Feb 2, 2018 22:56:50 GMT -5
Sorry I read your post and indeed you did not say "outstanding." Next time I will take the time to quote you exactly. Yes I did intend to paint the picture of the best of a weak group. It is not saying much about the current state of defense. I think we are in agreement right? I should have started a new paragraph with regard to Moultrie and his defense. Yes I might be the first to say his defense is terrible. I commented only on what you said about other people's opinion of his defensive contribution. I did not wish to get into an argument with regard to anything else related to Stukes. As for your comment "about giving all players, not just Stukes, the opportunity to have roles...etc etc." First Stukes is the PG. I do not think Shuler or Moultrie are as good as him in that role. Shuler can give you serviceable minutes but not for any decent stretch. In fact if you look at it closely Moultrie has basically taken Shuler's minutes, Shuler has not gotten the job done. G gave him a chance but sometime around the trip to Northern Ireland or start of the A10, he started to use Molutrie in that role BECAUSE he produced.So much for blind loyalty to seniors. I have no idea why G took so long but he sees these kids every day and must have had his reasons? Now if you want to say we need to utilize the bench to press and trap more I am with you. In fact Scooter Vertino said on the broadcast that "La Salle doesn't make the opponent uncomfortable". Again, something i have been saying for years. Interesting trend while I'm at it. Funny that since Tony Washington hasn't gotten into foul trouble, Miles Brookins has gotten less playing time. I'm in completed agreement with on a few things: 1. Your point on the current state of defense 2. Moultrie's defense 3. Utilize the bench 4. Not making the opponent uncomfortable I wanted to chalk that up to lack of court time from his senior year in high school. But I'm with you in saying that it's terrible. I'm glad that Moultrie had been able to capitalize on his limited chances and force his way onto the court. I'm disappointed that Brookins' PT has diminished though. We all know bigs take longer to develop and this is prime opportunity for him to gain experience earlier than usual and potentially develop faster. There's been flashes of his potential as well as freshman mistakes. The only way he's going to learn is to play through them. Many of the fresh in G's tenure haven't had the chance to get experience during OOC schedule leaving them unprepared for conference play and a question mark going into their sophomore year. I want to give G the benefit of the doubt that he sees something we don't because he's with them everyday, but 90% of cases? Over 10+ years?
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