MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
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Post by MisterD on Feb 24, 2018 13:49:03 GMT -5
That clause is simply "I'm not taking the fall alone". If anything, give Arizona credit for sharing the guilt.
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Feb 24, 2018 14:14:45 GMT -5
It sure looks like Miller f-ed up with this recruiting stuff, but he definitely didn't f-up in picking his agent ...
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 24, 2018 14:48:56 GMT -5
Given the way he sweats during games, it appears Sean Miller does need that money for his massive dry-cleaning bills. Attachment Deleted
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Post by belfieldhappyhour on Feb 24, 2018 15:20:05 GMT -5
Miller benched for tonight's game. Players were told he won't coach tonight's game
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 24, 2018 16:41:26 GMT -5
And now Shaq's son decommits from Arizona:
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Post by blueandgold on Feb 24, 2018 16:44:01 GMT -5
And now Shaq's son decommits from Arizona: “Imagine if La Salle had four years of S. O'Neal instead of four years of S. Neal...” - manayunk53
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 24, 2018 16:44:09 GMT -5
And now Shaq's son decommits from Arizona: I tweeted at him. Would love some Shaq Fu at Gola.
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Post by stlexplorer on Feb 25, 2018 6:23:58 GMT -5
Well done Oregon fans
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 25, 2018 7:54:11 GMT -5
Yeah that’s top notch.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 25, 2018 10:35:01 GMT -5
Well done Oregon fans I watched this game. Bill Walton couldn't stop pontificating about what a mess the state of affairs in college basketball is right now. When Ayton was at the foul line, the crowd was chanting "One Hundred Thousand" and "Where's the Money" which made Walton upset. It was one heck of a game, and Ayton was like a man among boys out there. Hard to believe he's a freshman currently averaging 20/10. If a guy like that can help you get deeper in NCAAs, with the money you get from that, he's worth the $100K. That's where the economics of this gets so challenging and balancing the "integrity" of the game versus the money thrown at it from all sides. There's no easy answer to this, because no school is pristine, despite what we like to think.
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Post by mookie on Feb 25, 2018 14:12:04 GMT -5
Well done Oregon fans I watched this game. Bill Walton couldn't stop pontificating about what a mess the state of affairs in college basketball is right now. When Ayton was at the foul line, the crowd was chanting "One Hundred Thousand" and "Where's the Money" which made Walton upset. It was one heck of a game, and Ayton was like a man among boys out there. Hard to believe he's a freshman currently averaging 20/10. If a guy like that can help you get deeper in NCAAs, with the money you get from that, he's worth the $100K. That's where the economics of this gets so challenging and balancing the "integrity" of the game versus the money thrown at it from all sides. There's no easy answer to this, because no school is pristine, despite what we like to think. Maybe the solution shouldn’t be based on tuition, scholarships, stipend or anything like that. Maybe it should be based on the value thenplayer brings to help even things out between big time colleges and such. Players get paid based on the following: Performance/merit Revenue generated for the university Endorsements/Likeness (ie jerseys, video games, etc). Each player’s performance rating would be determined at mid season and year end. Players also would want to get a bigger piece of the pie but it’ll also help players who are fringe power conference recruits think harder about where they want to go and what’s important. Money could be more being at Power conference program but if you don’t get PT then your value and this your pay could be less. If you go with a smaller college then your value could be greater. Obviously more analysis needs to be done if that’s actually going to be the case and/or sustainable.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 25, 2018 14:34:26 GMT -5
This is still rife for abuse.
The best example I heard was to limit the amount each school could give collectively.
3M for football 650k for basketball and whatever the rest of the sports is doesn't matter.
Then you pay your start point guard 150k and everybody else gets 500k. The best part of this is that mid-majors could afford it.
***
I still don't know if I'm for paying players.
I think that you should attach every penalty to the head coach, regardless of where they are. No jumping ship a la Calipari. He goes to Memphis and UMASS gets nailed, sorry but Memphis is now getting nailed. Assistant coach's penalties fall to the head coach. You put it on these guys to clean up their houses or they're not going to be able to coach anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 15:49:30 GMT -5
A guest on ESPN radio had a simple solution for this mess. For the kids who don't want to go to college or don't value a college education and wants to make money, let them go from high school to the pros. Why not? Paying them hard dollars while in college is no different than letting them go pro and getting paid. I am dead set against 'paying' a student athlete cash while in college. They already are being paid indirectly with tuition + books+ room and board. With each college only being able to offer the same tuition /room /board package, it levels the playing field. Those breaking the current rules today are just greedy.
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Post by theneumann64 on Feb 25, 2018 16:01:22 GMT -5
Being paid “indirectly” is not being paid. I understand there’s a lot of layers to this issue, but the thing where we pretend someone is being paid in things other than money is just totally misstating the case in my opinion.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 25, 2018 16:48:00 GMT -5
Being paid “indirectly” is not being paid. I understand there’s a lot of layers to this issue, but the thing where we pretend someone is being paid in things other than money is just totally misstating the case in my opinion. One of those layers is taxes. The other is employment law. Why it probably won’t ever happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 16:49:52 GMT -5
Indirectly here means "roundabout, not straight" ----- the student athlete is getting monetary value in the form of tuition + R&B. Four years at Notre Dame with R&B = $284,000. A parent paying these dollars for their child in a 30% tax bracket would have to earn $364,000 in pre-tax dollars to pay for the 4 years! This equals $91,000 a year. In addition, if the scholarship athlete rides the bench, fails to perform or gets hurt, they retain their access to an education worth the above. Its almost a no cut contract. There are many forms of monetary value other than cash.
If the discussion here is that the student athlete wants a cut of the gate or TV revenue, that's different.
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Post by GlitterBro #2 on Feb 25, 2018 17:41:00 GMT -5
Here's an article that draws a distinction between NCAA rules and law. An interesting read: "Even if Miller is “guilty” of arranging for a payment to Ayton, he might not have broken the law. In its prosecutions of college sports figures, the federal government must prove that paying a recruit ought to be considered a criminal act. To be sure, such a payment violates NCAA rules. But the NCAA is a private, voluntary association of universities. Its rules are not laws." amp.si.com/college-basketball/2018/02/24/arizona-sean-miller-contract-ncaa-scandal
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 25, 2018 19:37:20 GMT -5
A guest on ESPN radio had a simple solution for this mess. For the kids who don't want to go to college or don't value a college education and wants to make money, let them go from high school to the pros. Why not? Paying them hard dollars while in college is no different than letting them go pro and getting paid. I am dead set against 'paying' a student athlete cash while in college. They already are being paid indirectly with tuition + books+ room and board. With each college only being able to offer the same tuition /room /board package, it levels the playing field. Those breaking the current rules today are just greedy. The NBA doesn't want it. They don't want to draft Sebastian Telfair, or Robert Swift based on scouting vs high school competition. It's an NBA rule, not NCAA. If the NBA gets their way with the next CBA, it will be a 20 year old age limit.
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Post by mookie on Feb 25, 2018 21:39:42 GMT -5
A guest on ESPN radio had a simple solution for this mess. For the kids who don't want to go to college or don't value a college education and wants to make money, let them go from high school to the pros. Why not? Paying them hard dollars while in college is no different than letting them go pro and getting paid. I am dead set against 'paying' a student athlete cash while in college. They already are being paid indirectly with tuition + books+ room and board. With each college only being able to offer the same tuition /room /board package, it levels the playing field. Those breaking the current rules today are just greedy. The NBA doesn't want it. They don't want to draft Sebastian Telfair, or Robert Swift based on scouting vs high school competition. It's an NBA rule, not NCAA. If the NBA gets their way with the next CBA, it will be a 20 year old age limit. Not really the NBA but moreso the NBAPA. Lower age limit means more players pushing older vets out. Then again, that could be changing as more and more players in the NBA do not feel the same as the old guard. At the end of the day, the NCAA in its current state has outlived its purpose. Sports and entertainment is much larger than it was 30-40 years ago with too much money in play. The NCAA has not been willing to keep up with the times unless it’s to their benefit. It’s a hypocritical organization and despite all the issues of pay for play and other corruption, Mark Emmert and the NCAA have done nothing.
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Post by weston2 on Feb 25, 2018 21:47:24 GMT -5
A guest on ESPN radio had a simple solution for this mess. For the kids who don't want to go to college or don't value a college education and wants to make money, let them go from high school to the pros. Why not? Paying them hard dollars while in college is no different than letting them go pro and getting paid. I am dead set against 'paying' a student athlete cash while in college. They already are being paid indirectly with tuition + books+ room and board. With each college only being able to offer the same tuition /room /board package, it levels the playing field. Those breaking the current rules today are just greedy. The NBA doesn't want it. They don't want to draft Sebastian Telfair, or Robert Swift based on scouting vs high school competition. It's an NBA rule, not NCAA. If the NBA gets their way with the next CBA, it will be a 20 year old age limit. If the government can take the kid right out of high school, so should the NBA, he's 18. The rule the NBA uses is restraint of earning a living and is arbitrary,..........that would have to be tested. And over the years their rule has changed, which would again shows that it was arbitrary. The NBA rule is a joke. If a kid applies for the job at 18 then, why not.
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Post by mookie on Feb 25, 2018 22:01:55 GMT -5
But there’s no collective bargaining agreement in most jobs like there are for sports.
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Post by weston2 on Feb 25, 2018 22:12:14 GMT -5
But there’s no collective bargaining agreement in most jobs like there are for sports. Huh? what's a teacher's union, Retail Clerks Union, Teamsters,................I was a member of a union at 17 or 18, back in the day. Diminishing union membership but plenty still out there. Ghost of Wendell Young III
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Post by mookie on Feb 26, 2018 7:51:38 GMT -5
But there’s no collective bargaining agreement in most jobs like there are for sports. Huh? what's a teacher's union, Retail Clerks Union, Teamsters,................I was a member of a union at 17 or 18, back in the day. Diminishing union membership but plenty still out there. Ghost of Wendell Young III It’s a little different...like a lot lol
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Post by thelasallelunatic on Feb 26, 2018 8:21:23 GMT -5
The NBA doesn't want it. They don't want to draft Sebastian Telfair, or Robert Swift based on scouting vs high school competition. It's an NBA rule, not NCAA. If the NBA gets their way with the next CBA, it will be a 20 year old age limit. If the government can take the kid right out of high school, so should the NBA, he's 18. The rule the NBA uses is restraint of earning a living and is arbitrary,..........that would have to be tested. And over the years their rule has changed, which would again shows that it was arbitrary. The NBA rule is a joke. If a kid applies for the job at 18 then, why not. I'm 34, I want to run for President...oops, I can't, I have to wait until I'm 35. Not Fair Weston. My wife is 26... She can't run for Senate. Why Weston? Because she's not 30. My 20 year old cousin can't buy a beer (he's a Hawk)... Why? He's not 21. My 23 year old cousin can't rent a car, she works for the US govt.... Not 25. All of us have to follow these arbitrary age limits Weston... Why shouldn't a basketball player?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 26, 2018 8:38:13 GMT -5
If the government can take the kid right out of high school, so should the NBA, he's 18. The rule the NBA uses is restraint of earning a living and is arbitrary,..........that would have to be tested. And over the years their rule has changed, which would again shows that it was arbitrary. The NBA rule is a joke. If a kid applies for the job at 18 then, why not. Why shouldn't a basketball player? I agree with your argument in this particular case. It is a bad argument against the age-limit. That said, the age limit hurt college basketball.
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Post by mookie on Feb 26, 2018 8:41:28 GMT -5
If the government can take the kid right out of high school, so should the NBA, he's 18. The rule the NBA uses is restraint of earning a living and is arbitrary,..........that would have to be tested. And over the years their rule has changed, which would again shows that it was arbitrary. The NBA rule is a joke. If a kid applies for the job at 18 then, why not. I'm 34, I want to run for President...oops, I can't, I have to wait until I'm 35. Not Fair Weston. My wife is 26... She can't run for Senate. Why Weston? Because she's not 30. My 20 year old cousin can't buy a beer (he's a Hawk)... Why? He's not 21. My 23 year old cousin can't rent a car, she works for the US govt.... Not 25. All of us have to follow these arbitrary age limits Weston... Why shouldn't a basketball player? I get the point in challenging it especially since some of these age restrictions are ridiculous. But challenging and overturning 100+ years worth of judicials cases/precedents is not going to happen overnight...it’s going to take years. Do you want to fight through the CBA or through the Supreme Court?
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2018 8:51:32 GMT -5
So weird that basketball and football players can't turn pro out of HS while baseball, soccer, golf, tennis, et all can, isn't it?
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Post by theneumann64 on Feb 26, 2018 9:11:50 GMT -5
My only argument against kids coming right out is quality of basketball, which I get is not a good enough argument.
I think we could ultimately see something where if you come out right out of High School, you have to play in the D League for a year and a half or something like that.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Feb 26, 2018 9:13:06 GMT -5
My only argument against kids coming right out is quality of basketball, which I get is not a good enough argument. I think we could ultimately see something where if you come out right out of High School, you have to play in the D League for a year and a half or something like that. Isn't this legislating bad general managers? So you took Kwame Brown. Deal.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
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Post by MisterD on Feb 26, 2018 9:30:30 GMT -5
I think we could ultimately see something where if you come out right out of High School, you have to play in the D League for a year and a half or something like that. Why? Its obviously better than forcing unpaid years, but no other sport mandates minor league service.
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