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Post by lasalle69bestever on Aug 26, 2015 9:16:30 GMT -5
This is why my son may be going to Temple. I will have three in college at the same time. Saint Joe's brags that their college graduate starting salary is $50,000 a year. Cost of a 4 year education there is well over 200,000. You have to work a long time to pay that off. School loan debt has now exceeded credit card debt. I don't know how small private colleges are going to be able to stay in business. My local community college had to build five new parking lots because of the growth. Two years of community college followed by two years of a state school may be the only option for many people. It's ironic that you mention Community College growth. Up here in NH the trend with Community Colleges is to replace salaried professors/teachers with temp-like independent contractor teachers. This has upset the student community (who fear a lowering of teaching quality), the faculty, and others. But AT THE SAME TIME the administrative payroll has grown substantially. Austerity for faculty, but growth for paper pushers. There have been a series of letters to the editors on all sides about faculty vs. chancellor's office issues. I find the chancellor's position to be disingenuous (but that's just me).
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Aug 26, 2015 10:04:32 GMT -5
The tuition bubble is starting to pop...maybe the pendulum will swing back in balance, and the true value of a college education will be reflected in the tuition price. Once people start defaulting on their student loans, it is only going to get worse. Once tuition started getting over $20,000 a year, everyone should have had their eyes open. I'm LaSalle gold and blue thru and thru, but we're not Notre Dame. A LaSallian education isn't worth $50,000 grand a year, it isn't worth $40,000 grand a year, and I don't know that its worth $30,000 a year (which is where it was when I was there, room and board included). The college tuition explosion is a bubble, just like the real estate bubble of 10 years ago, and the .com bubble of 15 years ago. I can't understand why those in charge couldn't forsee this bubble popping as it grew larger and larger. It's the everything at every college problem. I get the benefit of having a good business school. And it is a very popular business school. But La Salle currently offers over 50 undergraduate majors. Things like: - Geology
- Informtation Technology (It's spelled that way on the website)
- Integrated Science Business Technology
- Management and Leadership
- Medical Technology
- Digital Arts and Multimedia Design
- Art History
- Both Environmental Science and Environmental Studies
- Four different pre-grad/med majors (Dentists, Lawyers, Doctors, Vets)
- Both Political Science AND "Politics, Philosophy, and Economics"
I'm all for choices, but I don't know how much a school like La Salle can handle. Each one of those is a professor, multiple professors, chairs, curriculum, classroom space, online classes... each major is a lot to take on and you'd have to do a Cost Benefit Analysis as to which are pulling their weight.
- Nursing can pull it's weight assuming they stay licensed. - Business Degrees (accounting, finance, marketing) can certainly pull it's weight - Teaching (and their disciplines) can pull their weight
But some of the other ones? Does La Salle need to offer both Information Technology and ISBT? Do they need to offer Geology? Do they need to offer Medical Technology, whatever that is. Both Environmental Degrees?
I don't know the first thing about running a college, I just feel like kids no longer pick undergraduate schools based on the degrees they want. I chose La Salle not because I wanted to be an Education major. Many choose La Salle for their nursing program. Or for their business program. But beyond that, I just don't see how each major can carry it's own weight.
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Post by manayunk53 on Aug 26, 2015 10:34:56 GMT -5
The tuition bubble is starting to pop...maybe the pendulum will swing back in balance, and the true value of a college education will be reflected in the tuition price. Once people start defaulting on their student loans, it is only going to get worse. Once tuition started getting over $20,000 a year, everyone should have had their eyes open. I'm LaSalle gold and blue thru and thru, but we're not Notre Dame. A LaSallian education isn't worth $50,000 grand a year, it isn't worth $40,000 grand a year, and I don't know that its worth $30,000 a year (which is where it was when I was there, room and board included). The college tuition explosion is a bubble, just like the real estate bubble of 10 years ago, and the .com bubble of 15 years ago. I can't understand why those in charge couldn't forsee this bubble popping as it grew larger and larger. It's the everything at every college problem. I get the benefit of having a good business school. And it is a very popular business school. But La Salle currently offers over 50 undergraduate majors. Things like: - Geology
- Informtation Technology (It's spelled that way on the website)
- Integrated Science Business Technology
- Management and Leadership
- Medical Technology
- Digital Arts and Multimedia Design
- Art History
- Both Environmental Science and Environmental Studies
- Four different pre-grad/med majors (Dentists, Lawyers, Doctors, Vets)
- Both Political Science AND "Politics, Philosophy, and Economics"
I'm all for choices, but I don't know how much a school like La Salle can handle. Each one of those is a professor, multiple professors, chairs, curriculum, classroom space, online classes... each major is a lot to take on and you'd have to do a Cost Benefit Analysis as to which are pulling their weight.
- Nursing can pull it's weight assuming they stay licensed. - Business Degrees (accounting, finance, marketing) can certainly pull it's weight - Teaching (and their disciplines) can pull their weight
But some of the other ones? Does La Salle need to offer both Information Technology and ISBT? Do they need to offer Geology? Do they need to offer Medical Technology, whatever that is. Both Environmental Degrees?
I don't know the first thing about running a college, I just feel like kids no longer pick undergraduate schools based on the degrees they want. I chose La Salle not because I wanted to be an Education major. Many choose La Salle for their nursing program. Or for their business program. But beyond that, I just don't see how each major can carry it's own weight.
Am I the only one who is shocked that we're not doing a better job of marketing our groundbreaking Informtation Technology program? I imagine we must have the top (and bottom) rated program on the entire east coast.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Aug 26, 2015 11:16:17 GMT -5
Should add spelling to the list.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Aug 26, 2015 11:35:54 GMT -5
"Are you satisfied with just being informed or are you ready to get informted? La Salle University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania."
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Post by luhoopsfan on Aug 26, 2015 12:10:31 GMT -5
I think the school would be better served expanding its science programs (Bio, Chem, etc) because those are classes nursing majors need to take anyway. The ISBT is basically a blend of two majors, so eliminating it doesn't really save you any efficiency. Isn't Management/Leadership part of the business school? That's sort of a standard major for business schools. the Pre-Grad stuff never made a lot of sense to me. I know a few doctors and lawyers and none of them were "pre" anything. But like Joe, I honestly don't know anything about running a college so maybe there is more at play here.
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Post by SICguy84 on Aug 26, 2015 12:26:32 GMT -5
What the hell let's add food marketing to our programs.
I often wonder what and where we spend our marketing budget. I've seen a drop off of advertisements since 150 anniversary. Yet I see advertisements for the competition often in my travels and daily life.
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Aug 26, 2015 13:52:37 GMT -5
I think the school would be better served expanding its science programs (Bio, Chem, etc) because those are classes nursing majors need to take anyway. The ISBT is basically a blend of two majors, so eliminating it doesn't really save you any efficiency. Isn't Management/Leadership part of the business school? That's sort of a standard major for business schools. the Pre-Grad stuff never made a lot of sense to me. I know a few doctors and lawyers and none of them were "pre" anything. But like Joe, I honestly don't know anything about running a college so maybe there is more at play here. I didn't know any Management / Leadership majors. I knew one Chem major, one Bio major (also nursing). No Geology majors. I don't disagree with having the major sciences, but are they going to be full and is it worth fully staffing them? Or are you better served without the degree and with an associate Finance professor.
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Post by coqui900 on Aug 26, 2015 15:00:49 GMT -5
One key part to the story: No one from the faculty was cut. Anything that directly impacts education was spared. That's a really good thing, IMO. I'm not celebrating the loss of administrative staff (I was once among their ranks and liked the PR guy quite a bit), but the school did a good job to not hurt academic programs directly.
Bottom line: This stuff happens. It stinks when it does. But a gigantic bubble in college prices is forming because of a lot of factors. Every type of school is facing problems, especially Catholic liberal arts education.
Also, I knew a few geology majors. I have a buddy who does land surveying work and loves it. It's actually a really great major to have because of the natural gas boom upstate and pipelines and the like being built in the Philly-area.
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Post by weston2 on Aug 26, 2015 15:42:00 GMT -5
One key part to the story: No one from the faculty was cut. Anything that directly impacts education was spared. That's a really good thing, IMO. I'm not celebrating the loss of administrative staff (I was once among their ranks and liked the PR guy quite a bit), but the school did a good job to not hurt academic programs directly. Bottom line: This stuff happens. It stinks when it does. But a gigantic bubble in college prices is forming because of a lot of factors. Every type of school is facing problems, especially Catholic liberal arts education.
Also, I knew a few geology majors. I have a buddy who does land surveying work and loves it. It's actually a really great major to have because of the natural gas boom upstate and pipelines and the like being built in the Philly-area. Mergers, anyone? Hyphens coming? The Archdiocese is a specialist in a dwindling market.
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Post by SICguy84 on Aug 26, 2015 16:15:05 GMT -5
Mergers, anyone? Hyphens coming? The Archdiocese is a specialist in a dwindling market. No.
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Post by gymrat67 on Aug 26, 2015 20:33:39 GMT -5
This story in the Phila. Inquirer concerning La Salle's $12 million budget deficit has triggered a rather extensive online dialogue concerning readers perceptions of the relative costs vs value of a college education and the inevitable forthcoming " shakeout " among comparable competing small private liberal arts colleges and universities. If you have not already done so, may I suggest that you consider at least sampling some of the 300 or so readers comments thus far ( and counting ). It is quite eye - opening, to say the least.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Aug 26, 2015 20:43:39 GMT -5
Commentary on Philly.com is as bad as dialogue from WIP Callers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 7:38:44 GMT -5
This story in the Phila. Inquirer concerning La Salle's $12 million budget deficit has triggered a rather extensive online dialogue concerning readers perceptions of the relative costs vs value of a college education and the inevitable forthcoming " shakeout " among comparable competing small private liberal arts colleges and universities. If you have not already done so, may I suggest that you consider at least sampling some of the 300 or so readers comments thus far ( and counting ). It is quite eye - opening, to say the least. One commenter said he/she was surprised La Salle's endowment isn't on par with Harvard's. Hard to tell if that was sarcasm or just plain ignorant because there was no context by which you could make that assumption. That remark was followed by someone who pointed out that Harvard's endowment is 400x La Salle. Not exaggerating, that's really the number as I've confirmed it with a few sources. Another commenter went on a tirade about how he went here back when it was $5,000 and hard to believe a suitcase school can fetch $40k a year now and it's no wonder enrollment went down. A reply to that one reminded everyone that regular inflation brings the value of $5k then up to $20k now. In those terms, you could probably say college tuition has been impacted by inflation by at least double the pace of any other sector, which is still difficult to accept.
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Post by a10champion15 on Aug 27, 2015 7:44:15 GMT -5
If you people are seriously concerned about the comments section on Philly.com I really don't know what to tell you.
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Post by lsubluegold on Aug 27, 2015 7:53:42 GMT -5
Being $12 million in the hole should answer all the questions many had on this board about a new basketball arena. You can't be talking about new sports facilities with that kind of debt and having already bought property and constructed other buildings.
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Aug 27, 2015 8:07:57 GMT -5
Of course you can. With interest rates where they currently are, if you consider this project a "necessity", you still proceed.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Aug 27, 2015 9:02:16 GMT -5
If there's a positive ROI on any capital project you absolutely proceed with it going forward, that's how you make money. You don't make money by not investing in your business.
In addition, if you have people willing to donate to a new Arena you can't tell them thanks, but no thanks please give us money for this other project you're not interested in, or simply give us the money. If the facility is built based primarily on donors, why wouldn't you build it.
This goes for any facility on campus actually. It's not like the school is paying for it completely out of pocket.
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Post by luhoopsfan on Aug 27, 2015 9:04:09 GMT -5
Also - if you're not doing things the students and alums can see to help the university grow, people will assume it's dying and generally will stay away. You need people to believe there is a future
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Post by lasalle89 on Aug 27, 2015 9:28:11 GMT -5
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Post by weston2 on Aug 27, 2015 10:30:20 GMT -5
Deep pockets. Just print a few more................on-campus stadium to follow? How much has that football team cost over the last 40 years - Liacorous Folly?
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Post by luhoopsfan on Aug 27, 2015 11:16:14 GMT -5
The problem is that the cost to maintain/repair those building as time goes on is going to start costing taxpayers real money or for tuition to explode at those place.
State-funded schools are operating like there is no end to funding and eventually they will wake up to a harsh reality.
The private colleges that can survive the next 25 years are likely going to be the only colleges that thrive further down the road.
here's hoping we get a good long-term plan in place at 20th & Olney
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Post by blueandgold on Aug 27, 2015 11:53:14 GMT -5
Thought this chart from nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cha.asp was interesting. Yes, the data does not include 2014 or 2015, but it provides some perspective on the idea that students in recent years have been steering toward public schools vs. private nonprofits (4:1 or 5:1 ratio has not changed in 25 years). There is definitely more to the current financial position of the university than simply students picking cheaper public schools.
I agree with the comments on this board about needing to rein in the focus of our academic programs to those with greater likelihood of return - I believe Colleen has even said something similar herself earlier this year about focusing on what distinguishes La Salle from other private institutions in the region.
Attachment Deleted
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Post by calsufan on Aug 27, 2015 12:16:23 GMT -5
One of the things that stuck out to me in the Inquirer article is that the new Prez said a few times she was not aware of how bad the financial situation was at La Salle before she accepted the job (paraphrasing). That begs two questions: Did she do her due diligence or were some people less than forthright when they told her about the school's financial condition during the interview process?
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Post by JoeFedorowicz on Aug 27, 2015 12:18:27 GMT -5
Thought this chart from nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cha.asp was interesting. Yes, the data does not include 2014 or 2015, but it provides some perspective on the idea that students in recent years have been steering toward public schools vs. private nonprofits (4:1 or 5:1 ratio has not changed in 25 years). There is definitely more to the current financial position of the university than simply students picking cheaper public schools.
I agree with the comments on this board about needing to rein in the focus of our academic programs to those with greater likelihood of return - I believe Colleen has even said something similar herself earlier this year about focusing on what distinguishes La Salle from other private institutions in the region.
La Salle would fall under non-profit?
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Post by blueandgold on Aug 27, 2015 12:24:38 GMT -5
Thought this chart from nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cha.asp was interesting. Yes, the data does not include 2014 or 2015, but it provides some perspective on the idea that students in recent years have been steering toward public schools vs. private nonprofits (4:1 or 5:1 ratio has not changed in 25 years). There is definitely more to the current financial position of the university than simply students picking cheaper public schools.
I agree with the comments on this board about needing to rein in the focus of our academic programs to those with greater likelihood of return - I believe Colleen has even said something similar herself earlier this year about focusing on what distinguishes La Salle from other private institutions in the region.
La Salle would fall under non-profit? Correct
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Post by SICguy84 on Aug 27, 2015 12:30:08 GMT -5
One of the things that stuck out to me in the Inquirer article is that the new Prez said a few times she was not aware of how bad the financial situation was at La Salle before she accepted the job (paraphrasing). That begs two questions: Did she do her due diligence or were some people less than forthright when they told her about the school's financial condition during the interview process? Exactly. This may be a constructive fiction or not. Gallagher and Sautter did not give a heads up on this shortfall (unlikely) or worst yet kicked the can down the road (negligent mismanagement)? Or the under enrollment was beyond what was projected and what they expected to be a small shortfall was greatly increased.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Aug 27, 2015 12:36:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd *love* to see the financials she was shown. Even if they projected enrollment on pace, that only accounts for half of the deficit. Maybe that was seen as more manageable/acceptable or maybe they showed a projected increase to balance or ... who knows. But "I was surprised" is a troubling thing to read and not because of anything I expect she did or didn't do.
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Post by SICguy84 on Aug 27, 2015 12:39:46 GMT -5
How long has the school been operating at a deficit?
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MisterD
The Baptist Himself
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Post by MisterD on Aug 27, 2015 12:49:01 GMT -5
I just tried to find the financial statements online and I'm getting nowhere.
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