Signing Period is over, and...

[Deleted]

lol good one Mr. D. You should be banned from even posting on here after that comment.

[calsufan]

Nov 21, 2014 9:21:06 GMT -5 @endlessexploring15 said:

lol good one Mr. D. You should be banned from even posting on here after that comment.

Right? I'm beginning to think that MisterD is coachd's alter ego. Notice they both have a "D" at the end of their name? Hmmm.

[MisterD]

Anyone watch that press conf...

[lasalle89]

G won a national championship with transfers. G had an NCAA run with transfers. We can't get the big names the first time around. Our best bet is to blend local talent with transfers and the occasional out of staters. We just can't afford to have one bad recruiting year. I know he is doing his best with recruiting. Wish his X and O's were better but overall he has done a good job and represented us well. He is a class act.

[cpico]

Nov 21, 2014 9:16:31 GMT -5 MisterD said:

And how many of them were McDonald's All Americans? His job is to get the best players. The best players are McDonald's All Americans. Make whatever excuses you want, but he's not getting the best players which is his job.

Again, a total distortion of what was originally brought up. More typical nonsense from one of the most annoying posters on the board.

I guess asking for a big man recruit who could contribute about 15 minutes a game next year and just be in the rotation of bigs means people are asking too much. No one is asking for a top 100 type recruit, no one is asking for someone who will dominate. I just thought it was the coaching staff's job to get players who could contribute to our program, but I guess I'm wrong on that since MisterD knows all.

Maybe he will get a mid-season transfer or someone slips to us in the spring. I'm hoping he does.

[MisterD]

Nov 21, 2014 10:49:01 GMT -5 cpico said:

I guess asking for a big man recruit who could contribute about 15 minutes a game next year and just be in the rotation of bigs means people are asking too much.

That's not asking for too much, its entirely reasonable. What was unreasonable was acting like its as easy as getting a pizza when you have $20 in your pocket, versus competing with something like 150 other majors and mid-majors for far less than 150 capable kids.

[MisterD]

So, in summary, a reasonable request so long as you're also reasonable about the odds of that request not being fulfilled. Your "I wanted it so it had to happen" position earlier is where I took issue.

[cpico]

Nov 21, 2014 11:15:09 GMT -5 MisterD said:

So, in summary, a reasonable request so long as you're also reasonable about the odds of that request not being fulfilled. Your "I wanted it so it had to happen" position earlier is where I took issue.

That was not my position, read my posts again.

[MisterD]

Ok. Perhaps I just misinterpreted some of your quotes.


"It's actually mind boggling that a big wasn't signed."

"How we could not get a big man from the transfer market last season who would already have Division I experience, sit out this year and be ready to go next year, or get a quality big in the 2015 class is beyond me."

"I really like Coach Giannini and I think he is an asset to our University, but he really has dropped the ball so far by not getting a big."

"it's coach's job to recruit and he didn't fill our biggest need."

"Team needs a big man; coach did not get a big man."

[scarletexplorer]

It's not supposed to be easy; we're not Kentucky. And I'm not looking for a 4* caliber player, or even a top 100 big man, let alone a top 100 recruit. But it still is mindboggling to me that G couldn't land anyone at all, what with the recent success and the fact that there will be a ton of playing time for a big man. I don't see what the disconnect is, and I can't believe it's all facilities.

[cpico]

Nov 21, 2014 11:45:55 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Ok. Perhaps I just misinterpreted some of your quotes.


"It's actually mind boggling that a big wasn't signed."

"How we could not get a big man from the transfer market last season who would already have Division I experience, sit out this year and be ready to go next year, or get a quality big in the 2015 class is beyond me."

"I really like Coach Giannini and I think he is an asset to our University, but he really has dropped the ball so far by not getting a big."

"it's coach's job to recruit and he didn't fill our biggest need."

"Team needs a big man; coach did not get a big man."

We've known we were going need a big for sometime now. The coaching staff's job is to fill out a roster. So, as of right now the coaching staff hasn't fulfilled our biggest need, they did not get a big man, and they have dropped the ball so far, it's pretty mind boggling that the biggest need on our roster for next season wasn't addressed, and yes Coach is an asset to our University who at this point has not gotten the job done yet this recruiting cycle. So yea, I stand by those comments you quoted.

So just so I got this straight - your not concerned at all that our need was a big, and we did not get a commitment from a big. Especially when we have playing time to offer in the Atlantic 10. That doesn't seem like a problem to you. I'm just trying to get this straight.

Again, I've defended Coach before, I've defended our program before on other message boards - but from time to time it's ok to question what is going on when an obvious need hasn't been addressed so far. Maybe he's got something up his sleeve (mid season transfer etc). As a fan and for the sake of the team next season I hope he does.

[a10champion15]

Uhhhh just because the signing period over doesn't mean we can't land a big. We lost out on a couple targets that just didn't go our way but were very close. This board loves making conclusions WAY too early then proceeds to breakdown the whole situation.

Relax.

[MisterD]

Nov 21, 2014 11:58:17 GMT -5 cpico said:

So just so I got this straight - your not concerned at all that our need was a big, and we did not get a commitment from a big. Especially when we have playing time to offer in the Atlantic 10. That doesn't seem like a problem to you. I'm just trying to get this straight.

I'll bullet ...

1. I'm genuinely not concerned because the window to add a player for next season hasn't closed. My worst case scenario for the fall is adding an unqualified, lacking upside roster filler just to add someone, not coming up empty. Because ...

1a. ... any dead lock mid-major talent has a decent chance at a look from a major and a reasonable person would expect that kid to hold out and see. If that kid is deemed worth our scholarship, I'd want Giannini to sit back and wait until the spring rather than make a safe call. We lost Brimah because UConn called, and that sucked, but it would have sucked a billion times more if we lost him because we filled up that spot in the fall and couldn't take him.

1b. And even coming up empty isn't really empty to me because we do so well in the transfer market. Had Brimah not worked out at UConn and it wasn't a distance from home thing, I imagine we would have been in a great position to land him. Giannini's efforts on however many top targets he missed on can still pay off, just not immediately.

2. You're really overselling "playing time in the A-10" because all that means, stepped back, is "playing time in a mid-major conference, of which there are 9, and above which are 7 major conferences". Its not a unique selling point by any means. Even if you want to put us as a high mid-major, we're 8th/9th and without a ton of TV exposure. Its a thing, but its not a THING.

3. Our facilities suck. I do believe, based on transfers in/out and quotes of players past and present, we offer a better experience than a lot of our competition, but our hurdle is an upfront hurdle. Where other schools might be at far greater risk of losing a player they successfully landed after a year or two, our "risk" is never getting that player to commit. And when we do get that player who has other major and mid-major options in his pocket, its because of the sales job our staff and players do, not because we're some objectively obvious choice. Adding talent, which I'd say we've done quite well over the last ~6 years, isn't about "doing their job", its about exceeding reasonable expectations because of the obstacle(s) in place.

3a. If we get a new facility, my expectations will absolutely change. Not "how can a hole go unfilled", because that's life as a mid-major, but I'd have a lot less instances of arguing "well, sure I can see why he'd pick _______".

4. Some people here think La Salle is the best and can't fathom a kid picking an objectively better or equal school. Its the same as arguing that pizza place you grew up with is really the best ever, maybe you believe it, but so does everyone else who makes that argument. You aren't right. They aren't right. Except probably Stanford.

[lasalle69bestever]

Keep in mind that we have an "arena" without seating behind the baskets and it will remain that way throughout the four year period that any recruit would be playing.

Not to beat a dead horse but any coach or recruiter can very successfully make snide (and unfortunately) accurate comments about this to any player on the fence. I would think that players who are going to a Div 1 program expect a certain type of atmosphere to play in. And Gola is not it.

[cpico]

MisterD

I agree that the facilities are bad. Common sense. No argument from me there, and it is a hinderance to recruiting.

And I agree with your #4. There are schools that are equal or better than La Salle for recruits - common sense.

I think playing time is an important factor. If someone is going to ride the bench for two years at a "higher" conference than the A-10, I think playing time is a good selling point. Or as has been talked about it could help us in the transfer market down the road.

As was said by other posters it's difficult for a school like us to get quality recruits in the spring signing period, that's why the fall is so important. Could it happen? It could - but it's that much tougher. Also, a transfer at the end of this season does us no good next year (unless the transfer gets a waiver). A mid season transfer would help obviously.

See you posted a balanced post not drenched in insulting sarcasm and we can actually have a conversation. I appreciate that.

[SICguy84]

Nov 21, 2014 12:48:20 GMT -5 MisterD said:

3a. If we get a new facility, my expectations will absolutely change. Not "how can a hole go unfilled", because that's life as a mid-major, but I'd have a lot less instances of arguing "well, sure I can see why he'd pick _______".

I'd like to know people's realistic expectations upon the fixing of this situation in the next, say, 5 years. Is a new arena a panacea for the program? What kind of upgrade in recruiting talent will this lead to? Are we overvaluing this? Will the arena come too late in the changing landscape of college basketball?

[theneumann64]

Can we do that on the "Our Facilities" thread? So that it doesn't totally swallow up everything else?

[MisterD]

Nov 21, 2014 13:18:50 GMT -5 cpico said:

See you posted a balanced post not drenched in insulting sarcasm and we can actually have a conversation. I appreciate that.

Maybe, but it was a lot more time consuming on my end.

[calidelphia]

I think the "arena" and "facilities" conversation is way overblown. Looking at Quinnipiac someone had a great point that they had a really nice facility that would be perfect for our program. They brought about 20 students out to it and the players had NO home court advantage. Which is a better draw for athletes the empty seats behind the basket, or fans?

Atmosphere, culture, stability and opportunity are the selling points here. It is a dream to get paid to play after college. Most of the student athletes know that their playing careers are done after graduation and that there is a smalll chance that the chips fall correctly, affording them that opportunity. The question remains, will they have the support of a program to see them through to earning a diploma and can this program help them to grow and create opportunities that would not have existed. Getting them to ask the question "what am I sacrificing to have seats behind the basket"? They can call out below average facilities, but we can call out the chance that they will be recruited over, be on a short leash with a dick coach, not be expected to graduate in many cases, not have an effect on the team culture, live in a podunk town (sorry storres) and potentially get dropped off the roster for playing their style of game.

We aren't going to compete with a high major ever. Brimah would have been amazing if he had flown under the radar long enough. Soon as Uconn called, he was gone. Now he's got a national championship so we all know he made the right choice. The kids want 1. To win 2. Playing time 3. To be part of a good group 4. Stability 5. Future opportunities. I would put "seats behind the basket" at the bottom of a list of priorities.

I challenge anyone to show me a team that kept the same coaching staff, got a new arena and improved recruiting with significantly better results in the following 5 years.

I found SIU who has gone an astonishing 37-76 in the Ohio valley west since their renovation to the 8,500 + seat arena. Towson and Maine are 1-3 after getting blown out a few times. Siena has struggled for 4 years to get their reno done.

We have a great student athlete support system, we graduate our players who take pride in the education they receive, and we are loyal to them. That said it is important for us to make the right decisions when recruiting and not fill these spots up desperately. G has done a pretty good job with that and it is unfortunate that Davis didn't work out here. If he had progressed it would have stopped all of these conversations.

Also I saw that in 2012 we were having the same conversation. Since then we got Washington, Sakniuk and Davis explorertown.proboards.com/thread/63/commitments-early-signing-period

The "facilities" reasoning as a key to recruiting is still extremely short sighted and misdirected. Though it is an opportunity for improvement of the La Salle brand and experience which seems to have momentum.

[MisterD]

Nov 21, 2014 14:05:13 GMT -5 calidelphia said:

Looking at Quinnipiac someone had a great point that they had a really nice facility that would be perfect for our program. They brought about 20 students out to it and the players had NO home court advantage. Which is a better draw for athletes the empty seats behind the basket, or fans?

Pretty sure there's no correlation there and a nicer facility wouldn't drive our students away.

[calidelphia]

Q had the empty seats. we have the fans, no seats. Seems the point may have been missed there.

[MisterD]

I guess I didn't get the point. Bad arenas are bad. No fans are bad. Dealing with neither is good and attainable.

[lwc4591]

Well a new arena isn't a total fix but man I would bet everything I own G would be floored if La Salle announced plans for new arena in next year or two. School would have no problem getting 3800-4200 every game with same team we have had over the past 3-4 seasons. Number one it would bring in a totally different atmosphere and would certainly help G in selling the school to future recruits not to mention the big jump in revenue the school would receive at the gate (Probably around $65000 per game assuming ticket prices ranging 22-30 per game). With 12-13 home games per year total would be around $800,000 per season not counting concessions or stores.

[Deleted]

This is a longshot at best, but the door isn't completely closed on another early signee. Schools have 14 days from the date a NLI is signed to file it with their conference office so if a coach gives a NLI dated November 19th to a recruit to sign on the last day of the signing period, the recruit could sign it and hold onto it for at least another 10 days before they make a decision and send it to the school so they can file it with their conference by the 14 day deadline (which would be December 3rd for a NLI signed on November 19th). If the kid decides not to commit, he can just rip it up.

Here's the rule from the NLI site:

7-Day Signing Deadline
If my parent/legal guardian and I do not sign this NLI and accompanying offer of athletics aid within 7 days after the date of issuance (noted on the signing page) it will be invalid. The 7-day signing deadline does not apply if the NLI is received on the last day of a signing period (e.g., November 19th). In this case, the 7-day signing deadline only applies if there are 7 days remaining for the signing period. Additionally, the institution must file the NLI with its conference office within 14 days of the date of final signature; otherwise, the NLI is invalid.

As far as I know, Oliva and Bunch haven't committed. I would forget Isaiah Maurice because it seems like there was no serious interest from La Salle since apparently no offer was made. He just visited and was offered by North Carolina A&T within the past week. I know there was interest in a couple low post guys out Florida and a couple out of Georgia along with a European kid, but that info was from a couple weeks ago. I have no idea if any of them are still in the picture. Would love to get one of them early for all the reasons already mentioned. As far as signing a shooter, waiting until the late period isn't really an issue. If G wants to go in that direction, he'll find someone decent.

Regarding G's "failure" to bring in an offseason big man transfer, I suggest people take a look at Jeff Goodman's transfer list. There was very little to choose from. There were very few quality 4's and 5's available, and they all went to BCS schools. He could have brought in a warm body but what would have been the point.

[jellybean]

Per Kjmac's post, I think that helps shed some light on what the assistant do recruiting wise. I don't think it's a one-man job. You need to evaluate a player. Sell him to the head coach who then decides if this player fits his needs.

Pappy was the first to evaluate Shuler. Pappy has a hand in all local kids. I see him a lot at HS games.

Will Bailey was recently mentioned by Price as being the first from La Salle to contact him and influential in his recruiting. Roberts is from Miami. I have to think Will was involved with him.

Interesting that kjmac also mentioned two players from FL and SC. What about the kid from AL that picked UT-Chattanooga. What about Miller from TX? We have been involved with players from AL, GA and SC too. Will Bailey is the connection.

[hideaway]

Nov 21, 2014 14:52:04 GMT -5 lwc4591 said:

Well a new arena isn't a total fix but man I would bet everything I own G would be floored if La Salle announced plans for new arena in next year or two. School would have no problem getting 3800-4200 every game with same team we have had over the past 3-4 seasons. Number one it would bring in a totally different atmosphere and would certainly help G in selling the school to future recruits not to mention the big jump in revenue the school would receive at the gate (Probably around $65000 per game assuming ticket prices ranging 22-30 per game). With 12-13 home games per year total would be around $800,000 per season not counting concessions or stores.

"School would have no problem getting 3800-4200 every game with same team we have had over the past 3-4 seasons."

So am I to believe that with the same exact team, attendance would SKYROCKET with a better facility?  I have never really heard that argument nor do I think it is true.  I have never heard someone say, "I would have gone to the game but boy that arena stinks."  I agree 100% that better facilities helps recruiting.  A better arena would MAYBE cause a blip in attendance.  Do people go to a Penn game, a Hofstra game, etc because the facility is cool?  I don't think so.  People go to a game because the product on the floor is good.  When La Salle has Lionel Simmons there were many sellouts (off campus by the way at the Convention Center becuse we had NO ARENA ....approximately 10,000 people).  Did they go because it was a cool arena?  Absolutely not, it was a terrible arena- it was a convention center for Chris's sake not built for hoops.  So far there is one major donor who has ponied up a decent chunk of money but we are nowhere close to an arena.  Do we want an arena?  Yes.  Does the coach want an arena? Yes.  Does the administration want an arena?  Yes.  I am not sure why it is always brought up on here.  It is a done topic....EVERYONE wants an arena.  We need TENS OF MILLIONS more dollars to make it happen.  If you are writing any big checks please put the school on your speed dial.  Otherwise, please save your breathe for something that is realized at every level of the School.

In the meantime, our cozy arena is a very difficult place for an opposing team to play and has been instrumental in more than a few wins in the past few seasons.  For it not to be packed all of the time when the team has been as good as it has over the last several seasons, it points to other issues with the La Salle student and alumni base.  It is not the fact that you can't get sushi at the concession stand.   Our cost of attendance to a game is less than that of most college programs and the experience actually quite good (you are sitting close to the action).  If you want an even better experience, you can purchase chairbacks which are still very inexpensive compared to probably any college program.  At most programs, to get seats that good you need to donate thousands per year to get preferred seating.

[MisterD]

Doesn't citizens bank park kinda support "yup, people will show up for a building"?

[hideaway]

Hang outside and drink beer in a nice venue. It is basically a large outdoor bar with a sporting event going on. Yes, people tend to sit in nice places and drink beer.

The compare: travel to the hood but when you get here you can sit behind the basket now. Not sure I buy that one. You can watch St. John's in Manhattan in the newly revamped MSG (they spent 800 MILLION DOLLARS on a rehab of the facility. When St. John's is .500, nobody goes. When they are good, atendance roughly doubles. Oh, one more thing, because it is off campus, you can actually drink beer there. Better compare. When you build it, they do not come (unless the team gets better which again could happen with improved recruiting due to the arena.). I have just never heard of people going to hoops games because just the arena got nicer. Even when one gets built, don't expect something ridiculous. Let's face it, we can't afford it.

[Deleted]

Showing my age, when I was a student the games were played at the Palestra. Always good crowds.  That included great teams with Durrett and Fields and not good teams with DiCocco and Wilber.  Lots of spirit. Recruiting seemed easier then.  Haven't been on campus in 38 years.  Never been to Gola. Can't imagine it is a selling feature to recruits. Jalon  Miller is a good example. I know that TCU is 30 miles from his home, but TCU has a 10,000 seat arena which is being completely renovated.  It sits next to a stadium that holds the 5th best football team in the country, in a nice area of Fort Worth.  And they are in the Big 12.  Would have been shocked if he had picked La Salle.  I think an arena would do a lot for the recruiting.  it has got to be hard for urban private universities to compete. 

[1stflooredwards]

Nov 21, 2014 21:01:30 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Doesn't citizens bank park kinda support "yup, people will show up for a building"?

We will certainly see if that holds true this coming season however there was a significant drop in attendance this past season.