|
Post by coqui900 on Sept 8, 2014 14:38:39 GMT -5
I love La Salle. I have said the Southwest Philly Floater was the third best day of my life, behind meeting my wife and our wedding. That's not an exaggeration.
But it's really hard to continue to want any connection to the NCAA at all.
The NCAA essentially undid all of the sanctions against Penn State today. The punishment they gave Penn State was so ridiculous -- One year loss of revenue essentially, a two-year ban on bowl games, some scholarship losses. Ohhh, wow. What a punishment for a gross institutional failure that led to the repeated sexual assault of children.
This is on top of the completely awful way athletes are treated in terms of freedom to transfer, scholarships, not getting paid despite making billions of dollars for a "non-profit." Scumbags like Bruce Pearl can get jobs time and time again. Coaches can jump ship anytime they want. Lord knows how much awful stuff goes on during recruiting.
There are so many ways I can stay connected to La Salle. I don't need basketball to do this.
I love going to college basketball games. I love basketball. I love the emotion. There's nothing I like better than a Big 5 Palestra game. The Butler/La Salle game is one of the all-time favorite moments of my sports fandom.
But how can I really justify supporting the parent organization to La Salle basketball at all? It's not La Salle's fault. But it's just really hard to think I support the NCAA in any way whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by scarletexplorer on Sept 8, 2014 15:04:22 GMT -5
Oh but didn't you hear? The NCAA lets its athletes have snacks now. All is well.
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if that snake oil salesman Franklin had something to do with the sanctions, but it's a total joke. I'm really hoping against hope that Rutgers beats their ass this weekend.
|
|
|
Post by coqui900 on Sept 8, 2014 15:40:15 GMT -5
Oh but didn't you hear? The NCAA lets its athletes have snacks now. All is well. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if that snake oil salesman Franklin had something to do with the sanctions, but it's a total joke. I'm really hoping against hope that Rutgers beats their ass this weekend. I do, too. But isn't that really telling? Rutgers beating Penn State will hurt more than sanctions, in a lot of ways.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 8, 2014 18:24:32 GMT -5
This is more or less how I feel about pro football. I haven't watched much in the last 4 or 5 years and this year will be less to none other than the Super Bowl. Used to be mostly because I grew to hate the fans and the on-field violence and how the players were treated as disposable; learning of the devastating post-career effects the game has and all of the current off-field garbage only assures me I made the right call. Even watching or attending would feel somehow complicit with their profit-trumps-all-else approach in my head, no differently than shopping at Walmart would. I'd probably have a successful complete disconnect if not for fantasy, which is basically just a good way to stay in touch with friends I don't see often.
(So I guess I'm saying I totally understand your whole "I'm done with this shit" approach, I've just been applying it to a different sport. Growing up is stupid.)
|
|
|
Post by lwc4591 on Sept 8, 2014 19:21:11 GMT -5
Penn State should have been a criminal matter not a football matter period. Although I am not a Paterno fan he was found guilty of nothing yet was judged as being totally guilty. As I said two years ago anyone who worked with or lived next door to a pedophile should be punished just like Paterno because they should have known what was going on with no excuses.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 8, 2014 20:14:39 GMT -5
And as I bet I said two years ago, pretending Paterno merely "lived next door" to a pedophile is complete and utter horseshit.
(I would looooooove all of these "poor Joe Pa the real victim here" people to explain to the parents of a kid who was molested after first notification that Paterno and the rest of the admins couldn't have possibly done any more. "I'm sorry about your kid, but the real tragedy is his football legacy. Dontcha know he won a lot of games?")
|
|
|
Post by stlexplorer on Sept 8, 2014 20:52:30 GMT -5
You can root for the La Salle Explorers without rooting for the NCAA
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 8, 2014 21:09:18 GMT -5
Or view it as adversarial, which is sort of is.
|
|
|
Post by theneumann64 on Sept 8, 2014 22:05:04 GMT -5
It's a little hypocritical I guess, but I'll still support La Salle while hating the whole NCAA structure and concept of "big-time" college sports. And I'll also pretend La Salle is totally above the fray, which I'm sure they are not (although I'd imagine they are less complicit than a Florida State for example).
And as for the Paterno thing, Paterno may not have been criminally guilty (although he may have been), but he absolutely did something wrong, and it should definitely be a part of his story, even if you don't believe it should cancel out his entire "legacy."
|
|
|
Post by coqui900 on Sept 8, 2014 22:22:19 GMT -5
Penn State kids are out storming the streets tonight, with JoePa chants and riot cops out.
Absolutely nothing changed.
|
|
|
Post by ltrain38 on Sept 8, 2014 23:18:05 GMT -5
I love La Salle. I have said the Southwest Philly Floater was the third best day of my life, behind meeting my wife and our wedding. That's not an exaggeration. But it's really hard to continue to want any connection to the NCAA at all. The NCAA essentially undid all of the sanctions against Penn State today. The punishment they gave Penn State was so ridiculous -- One year loss of revenue essentially, a two-year ban on bowl games, some scholarship losses. Ohhh, wow. What a punishment for a gross institutional failure that led to the repeated sexual assault of children. This is on top of the completely awful way athletes are treated in terms of freedom to transfer, scholarships, not getting paid despite making billions of dollars for a "non-profit." Scumbags like Bruce Pearl can get jobs time and time again. Coaches can jump ship anytime they want. Lord knows how much awful stuff goes on during recruiting. There are so many ways I can stay connected to La Salle. I don't need basketball to do this. I love going to college basketball games. I love basketball. I love the emotion. There's nothing I like better than a Big 5 Palestra game. The Butler/La Salle game is one of the all-time favorite moments of my sports fandom. But how can I really justify supporting the parent organization to La Salle basketball at all? It's not La Salle's fault. But it's just really hard to think I support the NCAA in any way whatsoever. Cognitive dissonance. I manage to follow college basketball by not acknowledging the rest, even though I know all of this.
|
|
|
Post by lwc4591 on Sept 9, 2014 7:06:21 GMT -5
Mister D (AKA as mister know it all) you should have worked for the PA DA office back in 98 when they invetsigated Sand dirt bag and found nothing. If you worked for the DA office this matter would have been cleared up 16 years ago. Truth is you have zero clue about what happened just like me.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 8:27:24 GMT -5
If I ever reach the point in my life where I'll defend a powerful celebrity who blind-eyed an active child molester just because I like that celebrity, someone promise to kick me right in the stomach, ok? Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by lasallescreamer on Sept 9, 2014 19:06:29 GMT -5
I really, really don't want to argue with my buddies here, but I wonder how many read the entire Freeh(sic) report. I did. He did not come close to touching Coach- not with any facts. I HTG believe that I would have destroyed him in a debate because the FACTS simply did not support his position. Could more have been done? More can always be done. Was Coach responsible-not based on the facts.Who was responsible? Sandusky. Who was convicted and in jail? Sandusky. As it should be. I respect Coach Paterno and I have often made this public. We all get our opinion. Hopefully, we can agree on this: LaSalle to the NCAA this ydear ands doing it the right way w Coach G!
|
|
|
Post by a10champion15 on Sept 9, 2014 19:30:47 GMT -5
I have to agree. I never was a huge Penn State fan but for me their issues with the NCAA have been pretty isolated compared to other such as Ohio State. The whole situation was a mess and clearly no one has all the details of what actually went on. Sandusky actions were despicable and Penn State did not handle the situation well whatsoever. However, despite this incident I still respect Penn State. One mans actions shouldn't be reflected upon the university as a whole. While maybe it was a little early to lift the penalties I don't think continuing to punish Penn State's student athletes was the best way to handle it either.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 20:20:01 GMT -5
They're isolated in the sense that there was only one long-running child molestation scandal. I would agree with you there.
|
|
|
Post by coqui900 on Sept 9, 2014 20:49:00 GMT -5
My anger with this isn't about Penn State anymore. I agree the Freeh Report has issues and shouldn't be taken as the absolute truth as to what happened. It's not a court document -- it's a paid-for document with an agenda behind it.
However, I don't need to know the details to see what happened -- there was an institutional failure on many levels that resulted in Jerry Sandusky having access to children on Penn State's campus, and many things that could have happened earlier to stop that. I don't know who did and saw and heard what, but something along the lines failed.
And, at the heart of the matter, is that the football culture at Penn State is a large part of the problem. JoePa and the football team controlled so much of that school's culture. That clearly hasn't changed, as seen by how the student body reacted to the lifting of a bowl ban.
The NCAA is supposedly the body that tells schools how they should act in order to balance athletics and academics. That flew the coop decades ago. But the Penn State story is immensely important. The misguided priorities were a major factor in what happened, and the school walked away with its insurance companies shelling out a lot of money and that's about it.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 21:09:54 GMT -5
What's gross is that half of the celebrating student body, statistically, wasn't even attending PSU when everything went down so there's your confirmation that its a cultural problem and one that's showing zero signs of going away. Its ingraining blind loyalty to the idea of a dead sports legend over undisputed facts or, at a bare minimum, the basic decency to respect the dichotomy that exists here. I know these are college kids, but fuck me if I wasn't smart enough at 18+ to not align myself on the side of celebrating a victory over undisputed child victims. Even if you paint it as "of course everyone hates Sandusky", you have to understand most/all victims also hold the school accountable for their inaction. Go to your bowl game and cheer or whatever, but come the fucking fuck on with the public pep rally. Who do you think won and who do you think lost here?
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 21:16:45 GMT -5
And really, this does tie back to the larger point of having more and more trouble loving sports as you grow up. I would have no problem walking away from a team or institution that pulled this kind of garbage but the number of people I like and respect who will throw out justifications you know they wouldn't otherwise is mind-boggling.
|
|
|
Post by a10champion15 on Sept 9, 2014 21:17:20 GMT -5
They're isolated in the sense that there was only one long-running child molestation scandal. I would agree with you there. That's not my point though. Why should a university receive the same punishment as the legitimate cheating Ohio State and Tennessee did for this scandal when they are completely different situations? I had the same reaction a couple years ago due to how terrible the situation was. Now, I just think the football players should have been left out of it. Why should they take a hit when the fact of the matter is they didn't even know what Sandusky was doing behind closed doors? There were other ways to punish Penn State but I don't think going after their football program as a whole was the right decision. While it was an institutional failure it didn't involve the whole athletics department. Those who were involved were punished for their actions and more could have been handed to them as well. We can all speculate but I think those that knew what Sandusky was doing was only truly known to a select few but will never really know. I wouldn't get too worked up about the NCAA. They are a complete mess right now and no matter what they do they never get it right. Penn State isn't an isolated situation when it comes to the NCAA inability to make a firm stance against the P5 especially the SEC and BIG 12. The question is who do you want governing the athletic programs the P5 or the NCAA? As bad as the NCAA is right now...I take them seeing the changes not all but some of the P5 conferences want to make.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 21:46:09 GMT -5
The football program earned the punishment because protecting the football program's reputation was a massive factor in the disastrous aftermath. This is far more full program merit than a case where Johnny Runningback was given access to a car.
|
|
MisterD
The Baptist Himself
Voted Most Popular Poster 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022, 2023
Posts: 8,392
Likes: 6,325
|
Post by MisterD on Sept 9, 2014 21:48:23 GMT -5
Why should a university receive the same punishment as the legitimate cheating Ohio State and Tennessee did ... Or, to just address this line, because child f'ing molestation is such a monumentally bigger deal than money given to players. Just because its not direct on-field doesn't mean it isn't symptomatic of how a program operates.
|
|