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Post by 23won on Feb 22, 2014 23:57:08 GMT -5
G's record in years where Ramon has not played is 110-129.
G has had 2 winning seasons and six losing seasons in years where Ramon has not played.
Sorry, but past soundbites "once we get great we'll stay great" are not resonating with me. After 10 years, G has no excuses about not having "his guys" or "injuries." We have gone through his focus on "length" and "dribble, pass players." Despite these failures in focus, we now have obvious problems with the lack of a true 3 (due to recruiting failures or ignorance), too many D first (not) and no O guards, and the lack of front-court depth. Right now, we are downright lousy.
The prior two years were great, but in all honesty, it is starting to appear obvious that they were Ramon driven successes.
We just got embarrassed against a team that lost its two best starters earlier in the year and now mainly play underclassmen. We squeaked by a Temple team that is horrendous, yet played us without one of its top players and floor general.
We have had 7 games where we scored about 50 points. We have no offensive game plan, discipline or flow. Our coach lets one player shoot 1-7 from 3 land and others shoot freely at or under 20%. There is no discipline in shot selection at all.
We have lost to MAAC teams at home, squeaked by lesser opponents, failed to build a solid lead against any team other than low tier RPI teams and lost far too many close games. We were picked to finish 3rd in A10 and start 3 seniors and 2 juniors, yet we are 4-8 in league play.
So the pressing question given all of this is - why?
I, and a number of others, noted three or more years ago the lack of prowess at the assistant coaching level is a big reason for our failures. G has a lot of positives as recruiter, front person etc., but there are fundamental x and o deficiencies where the root cause appears rested in the preparation and in-game adjustments that appear woefully lacking. In all honesty, a big reason for this appears rooted in G's assistants. I see at home games what our assistants do and what other teams' assistants do, and I don't see our assistants performing anywhere near the assistants at most other A10 schools.
We are paying decent money for our assistants. I see progress with Zack and Jerrell, so I can't fault Horace. However, I never saw, and fail to see, what Adler and Neal provide to the program. Given the regression of guard play without Ramon, I am thinking that Bailey is not doing much to advance our guard play.
When you read this rant, bear in mind that I honestly care about the program and am not wildly throwing blame. I am a season ticket holder, a passionate fan currently, and in good times and bad have been a rabid La Salle fan for 46 years. I am not a troll and I am not a Johnny Come Lately fan who hopped on the bandwagon last year.
With that background. I'd really love some feedback especially from our long-standing fans. In essence, I really think something has to be done with the assistants asap.
If folks disagree or agree, please chime in, but let's have an honest and thoughtful discussion on this, please.
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Post by lasalle89 on Feb 23, 2014 0:22:18 GMT -5
I agree. I always said G has to recruit enough talent to make up for the lack of coaching.
Last year we had Ramon and our guys were hitting their outside shots. G needs a better offensive system. It has been figured out and solved by everyone.
Let's hope these guards that are coming in can shoot the three to help open up JW down low.
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Post by theneumann64 on Feb 23, 2014 0:38:11 GMT -5
If you're throwing years out, you have to throw 2004-2005 out though don't you?
I'm not the X's and O's expert a lot of guys on here are, so I'm afraid I can't give you much on that. So I'll kind of just ramble.
This idea that because we made the Sweet 16 last year, that we were suddenly going to turn in to Xavier or Gonzaga was never realistic. Everything that happened after March 10th last year was fantastic, magical confluence of events were were not likely to see again soon. But it did happen. So that becomes a major + in G's column that far outweighs the disappointments of other years.
To me, there's 3 parts to G's tenure. There's the first 4 years (which coincided with my 4 years at school) that almost have to be roped off. (I'm going to use the 2nd part of years on this to save room so the 2004-2005 team will be "2005" etc.) 2005 was just a get through the year scenario. Had 7 scholarship guys most of the year, none of his players, etc. The next year was a solid year, fueled mostly by Steve Smith, that I believe should have been an NIT team. (They did blow an unbelievable chance to make the NCAA's though after the other top seeds went out that day in the A-10 tourney). The 2007 team was all Freshman, so although 20 losses was a bit extreme, it was excusable.
The next year to me is where things started to really look up. Although that 2008 teams finished just under .500, from the St. Joe's game in early February on, they were a different team, with one of two notable exceptions. Then the next year, which is a largely forgotten year, the Green-Barrett-Mekongo Mbala teams wins 18 games, and they were all Juniors, so there was a big sense of anticipation for the next year.
Then the Murray years happenned, coupled with an absurd amount of injuires in the 2010 year. The next year is an unmitigated disaster, and then we get in to the 2 Galloway teams, which for expedience's sake, I won't go into, because it was so recent.
To me, this is easily the most disappointing of the 10 years I've been following the program. The only comparable year to this is 2009-2010, and at least that year a truly staggering number of injuries can be blamed. The coach should have some explaining to do after this, because there's no logical reason for so many of these guys to have regressed in their 3rd and 4th years. A lot of momentum was lost this year for the program, and it sure would have been nice to have some of that residual attention from last year last until even January this year.
But overall, I think G has done as well as you could have expected anyone to do with this program. We've gotten to the point where finishing 3 or 4 games under .500 and 9th in the A-10 is very underwhelming and bad, as opposed to the high end of expectations, like it was in the early 2000's. I have no interest in hero-worship, so I think the coach does need to take heat for this, because to use one of my most hated sports-fan cliches, this year was "unacceptable." As for the assistants, I can't pretend to make a call on them, but maybe some staff changes would be in order. I cannot say I have any sort of justification of that though.
Long story short, this year has been very disappointing. The 5 game "run" where we got out to 11-6, culminating with the Temple win, was the only 3 week period where it was legitimately fun to watch this team. And looking at it now, 4 of those 5 were against Duquense, Penn, URI, and Temple (who was at their absolute nadir at that point). G deserves a lot of blame for what's gone on this year. But at this point, he is what he is. I don't think we're gonna get a much different coaching philosophy out of him going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2014 1:16:20 GMT -5
Been thinking lately about Dayton and Richmond trips. Both games started in progress very late on TV, especially Richmond. We did not get to see anything go right. I hear the travel was hampered by the fog and rain. Not sure how delayed we were but it has not been smooth going.
G's game plan worked at the outset and then the wheels fell off. Dayton and Richmond were like sleeping giants. Once they woke up they expected to win these games.
My big problem with the season has been overlooking the improvements the A10 made while losing teams. I thought this year would be a cakewalk not have 3 solid NCAA teams and 3 bubble teams in there. I am now thinking this is a definite 4 bid conf with a chance for a 5th very high. I went into this year thinking 3 tops but at least we were one of them. It has been hard to adjust mentally to these grave new scenarios that have Dayton in and us out.
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Post by cpico on Feb 23, 2014 8:03:09 GMT -5
Been thinking lately about Dayton and Richmond trips. Both games started in progress very late on TV, especially Richmond. We did not get to see anything go right. I hear the travel was hampered by the fog and rain. Not sure how delayed we were but it has not been smooth going. G's game plan worked at the outset and then the wheels fell off. Dayton and Richmond were like sleeping giants. Once they woke up they expected to win these games. My big problem with the season has been overlooking the improvements the A10 made while losing teams. I thought this year would be a cakewalk not have 3 solid NCAA teams and 3 bubble teams in there. I am now thinking this is a definite 4 bid conf with a chance for a 5th very high. I went into this year thinking 3 tops but at least we were one of them. It has been hard to adjust mentally to these grave new scenarios that have Dayton in and us out. And imagine if you said at the beginning of the season this league would have a decent shot at 5 (five) bids and we would not be anywhere in the discussion for one of those 5 bids. That would have been crazy talk. This is a disastrous season that could really have long term implications for the program. Ugh. |
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 23, 2014 8:12:05 GMT -5
Well, I started a thread on assistant coach Will Bailey (guards) on 2/11 that was met with a high level of disinterest.
Adler supposedly is responsible for all aspects of recruiting. Whatever that means. It strikes me that Dr. G and Owens have more to do with that, but I might be wrong.
I guess what I'm saying is I would question retaining Bailey and Adler if re-evaluating the assistant coaching staff. Unsure about Neal - he seems to be associated with the academic side at which La Salle excels.
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 23, 2014 8:49:26 GMT -5
The more I think about it, there is little reason to retain Baily based on his body of work. Galloway was a super-skilled, athletic guard who had a sense of what needed to be done and when. Duren is a very cerebral guard with a very high BB IQ. Sam, DJ, Garland and Kahlid needed guidance and strong coaching.
More importantly - Roberts, Price, Stukes and Schuler are to be coached in the next 3-4 seasons. It's questionable whether they can reach their full potential as things presently stand.
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Post by las71 on Feb 23, 2014 9:27:22 GMT -5
I have always had the impression that G doesn't want much input from his staff. I have been to open practices in the past and G seems to do it all. Even the pregame workouts (the towel around the neck defensive drills they do before the game) are run by G. It's hard to evaluate the staff because I'm not sure of the level of their involvement. That being said, my criticism would be G's failure to hire an assistant with prior head coaching experience even at the high school level. We simply do not make any in game adjustments and I think the team would benefit from having an assistant who has game management experience. I also think we would benefit from an assistant who can teach better mechanics. DJhas been here for 3 years and his shot has not improved. Ty tends to push his 3 point shot and even Sam shoots the ball from an odd setup. The Richmond kids all had good looking strokes and you just knew they would start hitting. Pappy gets a pass because of his great demeanor with the bigs, the improvement of Steve and his recruiting of local kids. G has done a great job of bringing the program back from the dead but to become a more consistent winner he has do improve every year just as he surely urges his players to do. Hopefully this year will cause everyone associated with the program to honestly assess their performance.
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MisterD
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Post by MisterD on Feb 23, 2014 23:03:47 GMT -5
There's really no polite way to say "fuck off" to the portion of the fanbase that wants to run the guy who came on board at our lowest point less than a year after our first tourney bid in like 2 decades, is there? Maybe? No? Fuck off.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 24, 2014 0:05:37 GMT -5
There's really no polite way to say "fuck off" to the portion of the fanbase that wants to run the guy who came on board at our lowest point less than a year after our first tourney bid in like 2 decades, is there? Maybe? No? Fuck off. Seriously, some of you are giving him the shortest leash ever. Had BCS conferences calling, we all panicked, and now you're calling for his head months later. Relax, ya'll. Just because things aren't going well in one season isn't reason to panic. |
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Post by 23won on Feb 24, 2014 7:11:43 GMT -5
D, there is nothing in the OP suggesting running off G. The point is he needs an upgrade in, and more help from, assistants.
Neumann, we had the ingredients for success this year, with three senior guards, two high level bigs and four supporting players from a team that went to the Sweet 16. Success doesn't necessarily have to be a repeat in a big dance appearance, but it should be a competitive showing in and out of conference. Neither happened and the team is on a 1-8 free fall.
Bottom line, if you look at how the season unfolded, it looked like G tries to do everything himself and he's not doing himself a favor with the quality of staff and the lack of delegation, which may be a by-product of loyalty and fear of outcomes with delegating to folks who can't deliver.
IMO, it's time to take a step back, re-evaluate and do what's best for the program, and quite frankly, G.
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Post by las71 on Feb 24, 2014 7:16:40 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone is calling for G to be fired. Just about every poster credits him for our revival but I think this season's disappointment was a team effort and you have to include G in that. I suspect that he might agree.
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Post by 23won on Feb 24, 2014 9:26:22 GMT -5
If you're throwing years out, you have to throw 2004-2005 out though don't you? Seems fair at face value, but if you give a pass for that, why not throw out 05-06, since these were not "his guys" either? Doesn't matter much since the record in those two years pretty much cancel out and you wind up with a lower winning percentage. Even if you just throw out year 1, we're still talking 10 games under .500. Then look at the assistants, who have been there many of these years and I hope you can get my drift. I think we (and G) would do a lot better with some new offensive minded assistants and some new blood. The new PSU football coach has had great successes turning around a doormat program in Vandy, which never even had a tradition. Getting them to be a winner in the SEC was far tougher than G's job, given the need to turn around a ship with 85 players (not 12), the lack of tradition, starting out with an inferior talent base and overcoming substantially higher acceptance standards relative to league peers. However, he did succeed and he did it in a much different way. He runs the show as the CEO and he delegates key operational responsibility. His assistants recruit like crazy and Franklin is the closer. He splits up recruiting geographically (wouldn't it be nice to have assistants who are well regarded in the Balto/DC area or NY/NJ)? He pushes down accountability while realizing that the buck stops with him. I think if G were open to that type of approach and were to change even on a gradual basis, he'd have great success. There is a ton of assistant coaching talent. We clearly are not Duke, but you could get some real go getters looking to come in and turn around a .333 team (our current record in league play) to an elite team that CAN get past a conference tournament quarter-final game. Further to my point, we haven't gotten past that speed bump in 10 years BTW. That turnaround would be a major resume builder and provide huge incentives for perfomance. |
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Post by theneumann64 on Feb 24, 2014 10:31:26 GMT -5
That's why I don't think you should throw out any years. The Galloway teams happened, just like this years team did.
I don't see anyone calling for heads here, just a discussion of what needs to be worked on.
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Post by lasalle89 on Feb 24, 2014 10:46:34 GMT -5
We just don't want more of the same. You are as good as your record. This years team has tons of talent and NCAA tourny success and is awful. G needs to do what every team needs to do and that is get better. He needs to be a better coach and upgrade his staff and bring in better players who can win in his system. His players MUST improve because we can't get polished players like Duke. We got a Taste last year and we ALL WANT MORE. It's Human Nature.
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Post by explorerman on Feb 24, 2014 11:47:48 GMT -5
There is no one here calling from Giannini's head, chill out DurenDuren and D… Giannini and La Salle are a good matchup..
There does need to be an upgrade on the assistants.. that is a fact.. If Giannini doesn't in THE LONG RUN that will be doing in... Hire someone that can teach perimeter shooting, for example. Giannini is a high character and loyal guy which makes me wonder if he would..
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA..
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Post by SICguy84 on Feb 24, 2014 11:56:18 GMT -5
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA.. Very interesting. I fear not a Christian Brother? |
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Post by explorerman on Feb 24, 2014 13:30:20 GMT -5
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA.. Very interesting. I fear not a Christian Brother? A Christian Brother President, I fear SICGUY84, is not in the cards for the institution… This was recognized as a distinct possibility a couple years ago when Brother Mike let it be known that his term would be his last.. I do not think this is a negative for the school to be honest.. |
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Post by coachd on Feb 24, 2014 14:21:17 GMT -5
G had better pray that Price and Roberts are more like Ramon then Garland and that Shuler and Stukes are more like Duren then DJP or Khalid. We have to pray that some new assistant coaches are hired in the off-season also. This just isn't working.
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Post by golasalle on Feb 24, 2014 14:28:00 GMT -5
G had better pray that Price and Roberts are more like Ramon then Garland and that Shuler and Stukes are more like Duren then DJP or Khalid. We have to pray that some new assistant coaches are hired in the off-season also. This just isn't working. Can we all pray that you just go away? |
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Post by lasalle69bestever on Feb 24, 2014 14:46:45 GMT -5
G had better pray that Price and Roberts are more like Ramon then Garland and that Shuler and Stukes are more like Duren then DJP or Khalid. We have to pray that some new assistant coaches are hired in the off-season also. This just isn't working. Can we all pray that you just go away? Why? He's right. |
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Post by SICguy84 on Feb 24, 2014 15:01:44 GMT -5
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA.. Well Explorerman, I hope your happy lol. I've spent most of lunch coming up with a short list of "talented, respected, young, basketball coaches" under 50 years old! Then looking up their administration's top people in a vain attempt to figure out this finalist! Also discovered a number of other institutions are also searching for presidents, i.e. Mount St. Mary's and Memphis. |
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Post by explorerman on Feb 24, 2014 15:02:52 GMT -5
Can we all pray that you just go away? Why? He's right. This is correct.. While CoachD is extreme in his words and the way he presents points of view.. But I fail to see what is wrong in what he said… There are needed improvements in personnel (coaching and player)… |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 24, 2014 15:03:09 GMT -5
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA.. Well Explorerman, I hope your happy lol. I've spent most of lunch coming up with a short list of "talented, respected, young, basketball coaches" under 50 years old! Then looking up their administration's top people in a vain attempt to figure out this finalist! Also discovered a number of other institutions are also searching for presidents, i.e. Mount St. Mary's and Memphis. so tell me what you've got?! |
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Post by durenduren on Feb 24, 2014 15:04:40 GMT -5
This is correct.. While CoachD is extreme in his words and the way he presents points of view.. But I fail to see what is wrong in what he said… There are needed improvements in personnel (coaching and player)… while I agree what is said wasn't off, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was a joke. |
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Post by explorerman on Feb 24, 2014 15:23:26 GMT -5
Don't draw conclusions by this just for mere discussions.. but one of the finalists for the University's top spot spot has one of the most talented, respected young coaches in country on payroll…. So making ambitious decisions is in this finalist's DNA.. Well Explorerman, I hope your happy lol. I've spent most of lunch coming up with a short list of "talented, respected, young, basketball coaches" under 50 years old! Then looking up their administration's top people in a vain attempt to figure out this finalist! Also discovered a number of other institutions are also searching for presidents, i.e. Mount St. Mary's and Memphis. I don't think the finalists are that private.. They have been recently visiting and walking through campus and giving presentations and meeting with select student groups… To be fair, the gentleman I am referring to comes from an University (whom to be fair I can't name directly BUT with some easy research you can put it together) that is named after a Philadelphia merchant-businessman, who pretty much single-handedly financed the Revolutionary War and also signed the Declaration of Independence. Also, the institution is NOT Philadelphia. |
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Post by SICguy84 on Feb 24, 2014 15:35:29 GMT -5
Robert Morris.
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Post by durenduren on Feb 24, 2014 15:40:21 GMT -5
Well Explorerman, I hope your happy lol. I've spent most of lunch coming up with a short list of "talented, respected, young, basketball coaches" under 50 years old! Then looking up their administration's top people in a vain attempt to figure out this finalist! Also discovered a number of other institutions are also searching for presidents, i.e. Mount St. Mary's and Memphis. I don't think the finalists are that private.. They have been recently visiting and walking through campus and giving presentations and meeting with select student groups. This is correct. I just haven't been following it as much as I should. |
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Post by golasalle on Feb 24, 2014 16:05:49 GMT -5
The first candidate to present might ruffle some feathers...
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Post by SICguy84 on Feb 24, 2014 16:17:35 GMT -5
The first candidate to present might ruffle some feathers... The City Line Ave force is strong in the President of Robert Morris University.  |
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