Should Garland start or come off the bench?

[jellybean]

Garland (6 starts) 185 mins 30.8 35-100 .350 11-34 .323 25-32 .781 9 rebs. 15a-13to 2blks 4stls. 106 17.7
Garland (6 sub)     157 "      26.2 19-  56 .339   2-15 .133 19-26 .731 12rebs. 13a- 4to 0blks 6stls   59 9.8

Peterson (7 starts)197 "      28.1 10- 29 .345  7-20 .350  7- 8  .875 28rebs. 14a-14to 1blks 6stls.  34 4.9
Peterson (5 sub)   131 "      26.2   9- 24 .375  0-10 .000  8-10 .800 19rebs. 12a- 3to  2blks 4stls.  26 5.2

TG (St)+ DJ (sub) 316 "       na  44-124 .355 11-44 .250 33-42 .786 28rebs. 27a-16to 4blks 8stls. 132 22.0
TG (sub)+DJ (st)  354 "        na 29-  85 .341   9-45 .200 34-44 .773 40rebs. 27a-18to 1blks 12stls  101 16.8

Thoughts? Appears Garland is more productive as a starter and team is better offensively when he starts.

[talkinbball]

To me the biggest mystery of the season so far is why he is not the prolific scorer he should be. Thought he would be the heir apparent to Ramon G.

[lasalle89]

Start and play more minutes. I know he has struggled but he has the ability to score the ball. He can penetrate better then anyone on the team. Maybe he can start passing it when he gets in there for some open threes. Bottom line is we need him if we are going to compete in the A10. I would rather take my chances with him then Dj.

[cva43]

I favor Garland starting. No way should a prolific scorer be sitting.

[MisterD]

Isn't it possible he's an inefficient volume scorer who was most productive when teamed with a defense stretching presence like Galloway? I know I harp on "Galloway" as the answer for most every variance from last year to this year, but it's far easier to drive the lane when teams aren't willing to collapse off atleast one of your teammates.


(Simple math, Galloway averaged 33 mpg and Garland 24.5 so, ignoring OTs, a bare minimum of like 70% of Garland's PT was with Galloway on the floor. Probably safe to call it 3/4+.)

[a10champion15]

Lasalle89 i kind of agree with you. Garland should start but he doesn't need to take 40% of the shots on the floor. He scored last year with multiple distractions, driving to the basket is what he does best. He often gets fouled or makes the lay up. He did it countless times last year, the guy not a great shooter we all know that. I be interested in getting back to our game plan last year, 4 guard lineup with Zack and Wright alternating. Luckily, we have the option of going big but I don't see why we wouldn't go back to the 4 guard lineup when our current lineup isn't working. Luckily, G will have the Penn game and multiple practices before GW and A10 play to figure out what works best. Hopefully some of our issues can be addressed and handled. I think G will figure something out, he always has got the best out of his players. Not the best X and O type of guy but I think with a break like this and the time to really sit down on evaluate whats going on will help him a lot. I KEEP THE FAITH.

[gjc576]

Dec 28, 2013 16:18:40 GMT -5 talkinbball said:

To me the biggest mystery of the season so far is why he is not the prolific scorer he should be. Thought he would be the heir apparent to Ramon G.

i thought the same thing coming into this year and boy was i wrong. i just assumed garland would lead us the way pettis did in 2012 and galloway did in 2013. but every player is different. but garland is not the only issue here. we are a senior laden team and we do not look it at all. we have no leader. who is going to lead us and step up once conference play begins? 

[durenduren]

Dec 29, 2013 11:08:17 GMT -5 MisterD said:

Isn't it possible he's an inefficient volume scorer who was most productive when teamed with a defense stretching presence like Galloway? I know I harp on "Galloway" as the answer for most every variance from last year to this year, but it's far easier to drive the lane when teams aren't willing to collapse off atleast one of your teammates.


(Simple math, Galloway averaged 33 mpg and Garland 24.5 so, ignoring OTs, a bare minimum of like 70% of Garland's PT was with Galloway on the floor. Probably safe to call it 3/4+.)

Unpopular and unexciting answer, but totally correct.

[mookie]

i agree with MisterD and durenduren

If Garland's (or the team as a whole) jumper starts to fall though, things will change...but until that happens, it'll be the same story.

[durenduren]

Dec 30, 2013 15:23:16 GMT -5 mookie said:

i agree with MisterD and durenduren

If Garland's (or the team as a whole) jumper starts to fall though, things will change...but until that happens, it'll be the same story.

To piggyback on this, nothing will change because of your last part. This team cannot make their own shot from the perimeter, no Explo has warranted a special game plan geared to them, we pose no matchup issues, and I'm not sure we've seen a team double up one of our players this year.

[vasalos]

Everyone's right about Garland's shooting. He needs to be scoring 18 points a game rather than the 16 he's putting up right now. We also need to guard the perimeter. We are one of the worst teams in the A10 against the 3.

[jellybean]

Thanks to all for their comments and input.

I found the breakdown between when Garland starts and comes off the bench fascinating. What was glaring to me was Garland's minutes are down from 30.8 to 26.2 and scoring from 17.7 to 9.8 a game.

G made a point of saying that he thinks Garland is better as a sub. Clearly it has not been the case. I agree with those that say you need your best offensive threat on the court more not less. Garland has his faults but he is the only player on the team who can create opportunities. Some have mentioned they would like to see him get to the lane and pass to guys from open 3's. I agree but WHO is he going to pass too? We have Mills and DJ who must have the planets aligned perfectly to take that shot. This has been a major problem this year. Yes Galloway made it a little easier for Garland but Mills and DJ have to make themselves offensive threats.

G has said that he needed spend this time off analyzing the team. Hopefully, he will come to the conclusion that Garland needs to play more minutes. DJ needs to play less. Mills and DJ need to step up and be more aggressive offensively. G also needs to see that it is harder to defend a team where the ball moves and the players move unlike what we have now. Defensively, we need to look at this "help defense". Too many times they try to double the ball only to have the opponents make the extra pass. Too many times we are allowing wide open 3's (I hate it when I see our defenders flying through the air trying to block a 3 from the corner. Funny but I never see opponents do that to us.)

One thing I totally disagree with is going to a four guard rotation and have Wright and Zack alternate. If you have Wright and Zack play 50% who is going to get more minutes? DJ or Lewis? Wright and Zack have been two of the more productive players for us. Do we want to replace them with players shooting less than 40% from the field and 33% from 3?

Thanks for the thoughts.

Happy New Year.

[gymrat67]

Khalid Lewis needs to get ever increasing PT and become the reliable 3 - point shooter and lockdown defender we all thought he was going to be. His period of convalescence is hereby officially declared OVER !

[mookie]

Jan 1, 2014 13:47:15 GMT -5 gymrat67 said:

Khalid Lewis needs to get ever increasing PT and become the reliable 3 - point shooter and lockdown defender we all thought he was going to be. His period of convalescence is hereby officially declared OVER !

I think it's unfair to expect Lewis to be someone he's not. Most of us expected him to be a defensive stopper not a 3pt shooter especially when he shot 27% from 3 last year.

[gymrat67]

Jan 1, 2014 18:15:18 GMT -5 mookie said:

Jan 1, 2014 13:47:15 GMT -5 gymrat67 said:

Khalid Lewis needs to get ever increasing PT and become the reliable 3 - point shooter and lockdown defender we all thought he was going to be. His period of convalescence is hereby officially declared OVER !

I think it's unfair to expect Lewis to be someone he's not. Most of us expected him to be a defensive stopper not a 3pt shooter especially when he shot 27% from 3 last year.

Mookie: Lewis had to sit out last year as a transfer. He shot 24% ( 10 - 41 ) from beyond the arc as a freshman right out of high school at Delaware in 2011 - 12. I would hope / expect that the extra year of practice to work on improving his shooting accuracy will manifest itself this year. So far this season, he is shooting 42 % ( 5 - 12 ) from 3 - point distance, with only limited playing time thus far due to his hand injury ( now resolved ).

[mookie]

I hear what you're saying, but hoping someone goes from 24% (typo on the 27%) to what he's shooting now is a bit unfair in my opinion. Seeing him go from 24% to maybe 30-35% this year is more realistic. Seeing that he's shooting 42% right now to me is a bonus more than an expectation.

Based on your post, I got the impression that you were expecting a higher percentage?

[lasallescreamer]

Jellybean is spot on in his analysis. TG might not be the answer- but if not, there probably are no other answers.

[durenduren]

While I'm not convinced going to a four guard look is the answer, much like jellybean said, I'm starting to get to the point of "what's there to lose."

All common sense points to Steve and Jerrell being the most consistent, so it hardly makes sense on paper but... Nothing else has worked... The hell not? Maybe I'm getting desperate for answers.

[lasalle89]

If G doesn't try something different I will be very disappointed. We looked good in the first half of the Nova game then they made adjustments and the wheels fell off. Waiting for Sam Mills to wake up and hit some shots. Need our guys to shoot the ball with confidence. Garland shouldn't be our three ball shooter. Still think he is our best play maker with Duren being injured. Mix it up G... What have u got to lose?

[23won]

Jan 1, 2014 10:21:34 GMT -5 jellybean said:

Excellent Post -  My thoughts follow in all caps.

1) I agree with those that say you need your best offensive threat on the court more not less. Garland has his faults but he is the only player on the team who can create opportunities. TOTALLY  AGREE! Some have mentioned they would like to see him get to the lane and pass to guys from open 3's.

2) I agree but WHO is he going to pass too? THIS IS TRUE ABOUT THE 3 BALL, BUT JERRELL SHOULD BE A PRIMARY RECIPIENT OF THE DISH.  TY DRAWS A LOT OF DEFENDERS WHEN HE DRIVES, AND THIS CREATES SPACE FOR JERRELL PROVIDED HE CUTS ALONGSIDE TY AND DOESN'T JUST SIT DOWN ON THE BLOCKS.  THE BEST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN WOULD BE FOR STEVE AND JERRELL TO MOVE FROM BASELINE TO THE ELBO, STEVE SETS A PICK FOR TY, HE DIRVES THE RIGHT SIDE, DRAWS ATTENTION AND JERRELL CUTS DOWN THE LEFT SIDE FOR AN EASY FINISH.  THAT COULD BE AIDED BY DJ OR SAM PICKING FOR JERRELL'S MAN UP AT THE ELBOW


3) G has said that he needed spend this time off analyzing the team. Hopefully, he will come to the conclusion that Garland needs to play more minutes. DJ needs to play less. AGREE

4) G also needs to see that it is harder to defend a team where the ball moves and the players move unlike what we have now. GREAT POINT.  THAT WAS ON DISPLAY FOR MOST OF OUR LOSSES, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE STOPPED SCORING AGAINST PROVIDENCE, MIAMI AND NOVA.  I HAVE ONLY SEEN GOOD BALL MOVEMENT AND MOTION AGAINST WAGNER SO FAR THIS YEAR.

5) Defensively, we need to look at this "help defense". Too many times they try to double the ball only to have the opponents make the extra pass. Too many times we are allowing wide open 3's (I hate it when I see our defenders flying through the air trying to block a 3 from the corner. Funny but I never see opponents do that to us.)  EXCELLENT POINT.  OUR PERIMETER D HAS BEEN HORRIFIC AND WE HAVE BEEN GETTING KILLED BY BIGS WHO DRIFT OUT AND LIGHT US UP -- SEE MY PRIOR POST ON THIS. 

6) One thing I totally disagree with is going to a four guard rotation and have Wright and Zack alternate. If you have Wright and Zack play 50% who is going to get more minutes? DJ or Lewis? Wright and Zack have been two of the more productive players for us. Do we want to replace them with players shooting less than 40% from the field and 33% from 3?  TOTALLY AGREE.  WRIGHT SHOULD GET MORE MINUTES, ESPECIALLY AGAINST ATHLETIC TEAMS.  HE IS SCORING FROM MULTIPLE LOCATIONS AND FINISHING FROM MUCH FARTHER OUT THAN IN PRIOR YEARS WHERE HE SIMPLY BULLED HIS WAY IN ON THE BLOCKS FOR A LEFT HANDED ANGLE SHOT.  STEVE CAN BE PRODUCTIVE BUT HAS HIS LIMITS WHEN WE PLAY THE TEAMS WITH BCS LEVEL TALENT; SO PLAY HIM MORE AGAINST THE BTTOM HALF OF THE A10 AND SLIGHTLY LESS AGAINST THE THE UPPER ECHELON.  EVEN IF HE CAN'T BE A BIG SCORER, HE CAN AT LEAST FINISH AT A 45% FG RATE, REBOUND, ALTER SHOTS AND MAKE FTAs.   



Happy New Year.

[jellybean]

In this article about transfers, G has an interesting comment about having the starters introduced prior to the game.

articles.philly.com/2014-01-03/sports/45802280_1_transfers-john-giannini-former-school

Just a guess on my part but I don't think Garland will be starting.

[jellybean]

[quote author="jellybean" source="/post/24787/thread"

Just a guess on my part but I don't think Garland will be starting.[/quote]

Surprise. Surprise. I was wrong. G starts Garland and Garland produced one of his best game in weeks. Also played the most minutes.

[coachd]

I favor Stench... Garland should start against the lesser opponents (open a big early lead) but come off the bench against the better opponents (provide offensive jolt).

[mookie]

coachd - most players want to know what their roles are and it be consistent. garland is also not stupid...if he sees he's a starter against "lesser" opponents and then 6th man against higher quality opponents, it's going to affect his mentality. he'll start to question his abilities as well as the faith the coach has in him. it sends the wrong message to the player.

if you want to go the route of citing favorable matchups, then you have to tread very carefully and make sure it makes sense and not just talk.

[MisterD]

So the logic there is that Garland can score at will against bad teams but needs to watch 3:00 minutes of game action to ignite his scoring potential against good teams?

[mookie]

really makes no sense. you can argue all you want that Garland should work his butt off to improve and start all the time, but that's not how it will be received by the player or the team.

[coachd]

mookie, you don't make decisions like this without discussing with TG. You can't play mind games with the players... you can pull them for not producing.

MisterD, that is not the logic at all. Good teams will relax a bit and won't expect the first guy off the bench to ignite the offense like TG can. It also provides the Explorers with a spark. And you don't have to wait 3 minutes to insert him into the line-up. Bad teams you can build an early lead on and then let a couple of your starters rest.

[MisterD]

So good teams are prone to relaxing early and doing no scouting work?

[durenduren]

After Ole Miss, Garland is about the most poorly kept secret if you think coaches will write him off because he comes off the bench.

[mookie]

coachd - discussing with Garland won't help the situation. all it does is put him on the defensive and begin questioning not only the coach but himself as well. give him a clearly defined role, as either a starter or 6th man. but do not go back and forth.

there is no way any team from this point on is not going to be aware of who Garland is. his name was made against Ole Miss as durenduren stated. also, conference play begins. all those teams have seen garland for a year now...he's no secret.